Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

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bondsr4me
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Re: A sad, sad day

Post by bondsr4me »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:08 pm Bogleheads:

Mr. Bogle carefully selected the name "Vanguard" for his company in 1978. "Vanguard" was the name of Lord Nelson's victorius flagship in the Battle of the Nile. Jack called his employees "crew" and he named the company cafeteria "Galley."

"Vanguard" meant a lot to him (he owned a small sailboat) and to me (I was a licenced Coast Guard captain). Changing Vanguard's logo is very sad, and in my opinion, stupid marketing.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom (2001): "I came to the saga of the historic Battle of the Nile (recently designated by The New York Times as the greatest battle of the millennium), where in 1798, Lord Nelson sank Napoleon's fleet. -- And two weeks later, on September 24, 1974, "The Vanguard Group, Inc." was born."
I became a VG fan because of Jack Bogle. He did more for individual investors than anyone.
To me, he was the Admiral of Vanguard....always will be.
I hope removing the ship as the Vanguard logo doesn’t cause the taste of my coffee to sink.
I’m very very disappointed to see this happen; I’m sure Jack would be also.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by youngpleb »

Sad news. The company is definitely moving more in a un-Bogle direction these days.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by UpperNwGuy »

If Vanguard is leaving the vision (and logo) of Jack Bogle, where exactly are they going? Supposedly the company is owned by the funds, not by a family like Fidelity, by stockholders like Schwab, or by a bank like Merrill Edge. Do the funds think they can make greater profits if certain business practices are changed? I don't know enough about the unique aspects of Vanguard to suggest an answer, but I do know enough to know that (a) the shareholders don't own the company and (b) the shareholders are the principal source of revenues (and "profits" if you can call them that).
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by 7eight9 »

Wynn's perfectionism can be seen at Treasure Island in everything from the sailing ships to the trunks of jewels tucked into the recesses of the ceiling.
He even changed the name of the British ship from HMS Sir Francis Drake to HMS Brittania after members of the black community suggested that Drake was a slave trader.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/1993/oct/2 ... -treasure/

Steve Wynn was ahead of his time.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by MishkaWorries »

interwebopinion wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:14 pm Most customers won't care, and even the vague whiff of a similarly named slave ship simply isn't worth the nostalgia. Can you imagine if one of your ancestors was transported on the other Vanguard? Or worse?

In addition to being the morally right thing to do, it's also good business sense. Expanding the customer base by attracting a more diverse set of customers means lower expenses for us all.
I would think if an ancestor of someone transported on a ship named "Vanguard" was upset by the picture of a different ship named "Vanguard" then they would be really upset by seeing the word Vanguard as the company's name.

Therefore shouldn't Vanguard change their name to do the morally right thing?
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by JD2775 »

Next thing you know the ER's on their index funds will start slowwwwly creeping up
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by CABob »

JD2775 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:55 pm Next thing you know the ER's on their index funds will start slowwwwly creeping up
I doubt that. I think that is the area they are doing their best for investors.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by palanzo »

stan1 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:10 pm Doesn't mean a thing to me. I don't do business with Vanguard because of their logo or who their CEO was decades ago. I would be very concerned if expense ratios went up or if my total stock market ETF became a niche robotics sector play. I'll defer to Vanguard on how to run their business as a low cost retail money manager. Maybe they will save a few cents on ink that they will pass back to investors.
It will take a long time to make back the $250,000+ they spent with the branding company. :shock:
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by palanzo »

Forester wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:45 pm
MishkaWorries wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:27 pm
ensign_lee wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:29 pm
austin757 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:47 pm Not trying to get this thread locked, but are they doing this for politically correct reasons?

I’m not aware of any group who would find the Vanguard line of vessels offensive.
I'm pretty liberal. I can't imagine why anyone would find the ship offensive.

It's probably more of people at Vanguard wanting to put their own 'stamp' on the company now.
From the article and posted without comment:

"Another theory is that Vanguard is — in the days of the Black Lives Matter movement — trying to distance itself from the ship and one of its namesakes’ unsavory histories.”

There were 10 British naval ships named Vanguard, including the fifth one which was Admiral Nelson’s, according to the Royal Navy website. Another served as a slave ship.

The Vanguard spokeswoman stressed that Admiral Nelson’s HMS Vanguard “was not involved in the slave trade” and is a different vessel than the slave ship with the same name."
The specifics don't matter. Consider the optics overall and Vanguard's 2020 customer base (more women, more diverse) vs its 1990 customer base. It is what it is and time marches on.
I'm confused. What are the overall optics?
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by palanzo »

talzara wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:13 pm
austin757 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:47 pm Not trying to get this thread locked, but are they doing this for politically correct reasons?

I’m not aware of any group who would find the Vanguard line of vessels offensive.
HMS Vanguard was Nelson's flagship. Nelson has become controversial in the UK recently because of his support for slavery.

Dan Wiener alludes to it in the article when he mentions Black Lives Matter, but nobody seems to have understood it on this side of the Atlantic.
“Another theory is that Vanguard is — in the days of the Black Lives Matter movement — trying to distance itself from the ship and one of its namesakes’ unsavory histories.”

https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2020/10/22 ... and-image/
In the wake of the ‘Black Lives Matter’ (BLM) protests (June 2020) the issue as to whether Nelson was racist has again been raised. In consequence BLM have identified Nelson’s Column as a statue that should be looked at in light of Nelson’s perceived role in supporting the slave trade.

https://nelson-society.com/nelson-and-t ... n-society/
The definition of Vanguard is unsavory too.
the foremost division or the front part of an army; advance guard; van.
What about those who are against wars and who find the word offensive?
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hagridshut
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by hagridshut »

BogleFan510 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:42 pm A more modern ship might be cool.
I use the current HMS Vanguard (S28) as my user photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_(S28)
The eleventh HMS Vanguard of the Royal Navy is the lead boat of her class of Trident ballistic missile-armed submarines.[1][2] The submarine is based at Faslane, HMNB Clyde, Argyll, Scotland.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by palanzo »

hagridshut wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:10 pm
BogleFan510 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:42 pm A more modern ship might be cool.
I use the current HMS Vanguard (S28) as my user photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_(S28)
The eleventh HMS Vanguard of the Royal Navy is the lead boat of her class of Trident ballistic missile-armed submarines.[1][2] The submarine is based at Faslane, HMNB Clyde, Argyll, Scotland.
One boat that can destroy the whole world. Perhaps Vanguard can rebrand to "Bogle" as Charles Schwab did.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by montanagirl »

I loved that ship. But I'm partial to sailing ships anyway.

I think big V is already taken by Verizon.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by windaar »

Old Spice replaced their colonial-era ship logo with a jaunty yacht a while back but has since switched back.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by abuss368 »

It has always bothered me that Vanguard has no section of their website dedicated to Jack Bogle. Really?
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by anon_investor »

abuss368 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:53 pm It has always bothered me that Vanguard has no section of their website dedicated to Jack Bogle. Really?
When I search "Jack Bogle" on the Vanguard website, I only get one hit: a link to the Bogle Financial Markets Research Center...
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by boosnark »

Logos tend to evolve over many years, consider Ford Motor Co. or AT&T from the turn of the century to the present. Ditto Microsoft, Apple, or Starbucks. There is a whole marketing science behind the branding of a company's logo so I applaud the move to get with the times.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

ship happens.

they're getting rid of a really old ship.

that doesn't mean they're getting rid of ships altogether.

they could just be "modernizing".

perhaps the new logo will look something like this:

Image

remind you of anything?

Image
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by 260chrisb »

whodidntante wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:11 pm 2020 was going so well before this happened! :twisted:
Well played!! :D :D
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by 260chrisb »

palanzo wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:36 pm
pinot3 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:33 pm Well, that ship has sailed.

:wink:
Time to sail to Schwab or eTrade.
I guess I'm not sophisticated enough to understand why this would make you want to abandon Vanguard?? :confused
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by whereskyle »

But how will we know to stay the course?
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by palanzo »

260chrisb wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:42 pm
palanzo wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:36 pm
pinot3 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:33 pm Well, that ship has sailed.

:wink:
Time to sail to Schwab or eTrade.
I guess I'm not sophisticated enough to understand why this would make you want to abandon Vanguard?? :confused
Because of the ongoing deterioration of services.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by BlindedByTheLight »

I wonder if Vanguard monitors these boards and is following this commentary.

My guess is that they do.

If not, they are missing an important opportunity to learn what is on their shareholders minds.

Vanguard needs to respond to the questions raised in this thread.

The following explanation offered by Vanguard doesn’t hold water:

“The Vanguard spokeswoman said the ship logo is displayed most often online today — though this writer couldn’t find it on the website — but the detail of the ship’s drawing does not display well in digital format”

It is especially important to be honest if the removal of the logo has anything to do with a past connection to slavery or being a prison ship.

Vanguard should post something on Vanguard.com regarding this situation and offer a full explanation to all shareholders and end all the speculation.

The Vanguard ship is as iconic to me as the Apple 🍎

You do not make a change like this without updating your shareholder/owners.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by galawdawg »

BlindedByTheLight wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:53 pm I wonder if Vanguard monitors these boards and is following this commentary.

My guess is that they do.

If not, they are missing an important opportunity to learn what is on their shareholders minds.

Vanguard needs to respond to the questions raised in this thread.

Vanguard should post something on Vanguard.com regarding this situation and offer a full explanation to all shareholders and end all the speculation.

You do not make a change like this without updating your shareholder/owners.
Won't happen. Jack cared, Vanguard does not.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by ResearchMed »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:06 pm
BlindedByTheLight wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:53 pm I wonder if Vanguard monitors these boards and is following this commentary.

My guess is that they do.

If not, they are missing an important opportunity to learn what is on their shareholders minds.

Vanguard needs to respond to the questions raised in this thread.

Vanguard should post something on Vanguard.com regarding this situation and offer a full explanation to all shareholders and end all the speculation.

You do not make a change like this without updating your shareholder/owners.
Won't happen. Jack cared, Vanguard does not.
Some years ago, there were very occasional posts by people at Vanguard, to address a specific informational issue. One that I remember specifically was to give contact information to get some Vanguard logo'd items (coffee mug, t-shirt, etc.).

Then the few such posts that I had seen (or could remember) vanished.

But I suspect there is at least one person tasked with checking here at least occasionally.

RM
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by BionicBillWalsh »

Interesting.

I randomly chose Vanguard once upon a time when setting up a Sep IRA precisely because of the old ship. I had a mailer from them and thought that the ship reminded me of old money. Funny the things that make a difference.

Ultimately, I don't care what they do with their branding. As long as they keep giving me those "Admiral" shares of Total Stock Market, Total International Stock Market, and Total Bond Market...along with those sweet heartbeat trades to keep my taxes low, I'm all aboard.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Rick Ferri »

JackoC wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:33 pm
Rick Ferri wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:29 pm Not surprised. This has Tim Buckley all over it.

The ship image on the website was changed to a "sailing ship" shortly after Jack Bogle died. It was no longer the HMS Vanguard, Lord Nelson's flagship at the great British victory over Napoleon's fleet at the Battle of the Nile. Any hint of a warship was taken off the image. This removal, at Buckley's direction IMO, sends Jack's ship to Davy Jones' Locker.
Articles says "...the HMS Vanguard ship image, which hadn’t changed since it was first introduced in 1981", and the current logo seems to represent something like HMS Vanguard (of 1787, a 74 gun 3rd rate) rather than any random sailing ship.
https://www.pngegg.com/en/png-nbwwn
The article is wrong. The image changed on the Vanguard website from a warship to a pleasant-looking three-mast sailing ship right after Jack died.

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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Rick Ferri »

anon_investor wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:57 pm
abuss368 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:53 pm It has always bothered me that Vanguard has no section of their website dedicated to Jack Bogle. Really?
When I search "Jack Bogle" on the Vanguard website, I only get one hit: a link to the Bogle Financial Markets Research Center...
There is still a conference building on the Vanguard campus named after Jack, and there is a statue of him in front of that building (moved away from the HQ building after Jack died - another decision by Tim Buckley).

Vanguard has welcomed the Bogleheads community since Jack died, although with diminishing enthusiasm at the top, and that is wearing thin.

Let's face facts, it will be up to the Bogleheads and the independently run 501(c)3 non-profit John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy to keep Jack's name alive.

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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by J295 »

I visit the site quarterly to update holdings and will be fine with or without a ship there.

VG and I have a transactional relationship, and their choice regarding respectful marketing, logos, type font, etc. cause me no angst.

I have no reason to think the decision makers have any ill will to their predecessors or customers.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Frankieg48336 »

nedsaid wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:09 pm My take is that management feels like it has to do "something" and put its own stamp on the company. It also has to do with management boredom. Reminds me of my former employer, the "Medical Group" became the "Physicians Division", and then back again to "Medical Group." Perhaps the next CEO will bring the ship back. What is old is new again.
Good point, I call it covid boredom. Management with nothing to do working from home but coming up with a great idea.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by mindboggling »

It's important to not get emotionally attached to a financial services company. I was a Vanguard investor for over 30 years but recently moved everything to Schwab. The world will continue to spin.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Cam894 »

Interesting that a company with an archaic website and barely functioning app is focusing on brand image.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Gort »

I would be happy with a spaceship logo.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by 1789 »

Forester wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:45 pm
MishkaWorries wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:27 pm
ensign_lee wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:29 pm
austin757 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:47 pm Not trying to get this thread locked, but are they doing this for politically correct reasons?

I’m not aware of any group who would find the Vanguard line of vessels offensive.
I'm pretty liberal. I can't imagine why anyone would find the ship offensive.

It's probably more of people at Vanguard wanting to put their own 'stamp' on the company now.
From the article and posted without comment:

"Another theory is that Vanguard is — in the days of the Black Lives Matter movement — trying to distance itself from the ship and one of its namesakes’ unsavory histories.”

There were 10 British naval ships named Vanguard, including the fifth one which was Admiral Nelson’s, according to the Royal Navy website. Another served as a slave ship.

The Vanguard spokeswoman stressed that Admiral Nelson’s HMS Vanguard “was not involved in the slave trade” and is a different vessel than the slave ship with the same name."
The specifics don't matter. Consider the optics overall and Vanguard's 2020 customer base (more women, more diverse) vs its 1990 customer base. It is what it is and time marches on.
It sounds really funny reading the highlighted part.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Alchemist »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:06 pm Won't happen. Jack cared, Vanguard does not.
Sadly this is correct. Jack didn't want to build the biggest mutual fund and brokerage company in the world, he wanted to build the best mutual fund and brokerage company. Customer service was part of that vision and unfortunately the first part of that vision completely ejected by post-Bogle management.

Vanguard has been slashing customer service while aggressively expanding its customer base leading to a serious degradation in the quality of service provided to its clients. A short list of some of the services recently cut:

Weekend phone support

Free Turbo Tax

Individual Flagship reps

Mutual fund only accounts

Cash management and bill pay

And did expense ratios come down when this happened? Nope. But they did add a 30 basis point advisory service, more international funds including international bonds, and a slew of quant-based 'multi-factor' products.

The removal of the ship logo is just the last nail in the coffin. I long ago left Vanguard for greener pastures at Fidelity. They are an unabashedly pro-active management, for profit corporation. Thats fine because they also offer excellent 24/7 phone support, updated website, physical locations, and competent customer support that was able to fix an issue in 5 minutes that Vanguard failed to address for 5 weeks (the trigger for my change). Oh and Fidelity has lower cost index funds not even counting their Zero funds...

I am not mad at Vanguard. Just disappointed. As an enormous fan of Jack Bogle it is really sad to see the company he founded plot a course far from the one he started it on.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Kathleen Ryan »

It's interesting to note, Buckley waited until after Mr. Bogle passed to remove the, "HMS Vanguard," sailing ship as Vanguard's logo. IMHO, Buckley never would have had the guts to do this if Mr. Bogle were still here with us. I'm disgusted by this move.

I do very much enjoy wearing my Bogleheads T-shirt, with a beautiful sailing ship, proudly displayed on the back.
Image
Last edited by Kathleen Ryan on Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Best wishes, | Kathleen
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by exigent »

J295 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:20 pm I visit the site quarterly to update holdings and will be fine with or without a ship there.

VG and I have a transactional relationship, and their choice regarding respectful marketing, logos, type font, etc. cause me no angst.

I have no reason to think the decision makers have any ill will to their predecessors or customers.
This is the most reasonable response in this entire thread. Focus on what they do, not the clip art that they choose for inclusion in their logo. Either they do a good job and meet your needs or they don’t. If so, stay the course. If not, move on.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Random Musings »

Maybe if Timmy was working on improving customer service, that would improve the Vanguard brand image. But making a new logo takes far less effort and I'm sure focus groups were involved.

Bogle founded Vanguard and provided investors a fair shake in the investment world, Timmy is transforming Vanguard into an ETF provider. TB couldn't even hold a candle to Mr. Bogle.

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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by friar1610 »

I haven’t read the whole thread. Perhaps this has been mentioned.

About 10 years ago I was going to a weekend Navy reunion event in King of Prussia, PA, very close to the Vanguard campus. I called ahead and managed to set up a tour of the campus for late Friday afternoon. It being in the summer, the campus was pretty much abandoned. I guess many of the folks had gone “downey ocean” for the weekend. Nautical imagery was everywhere to be seen - paintings, ship models in glass cases, anchors, sextants, etc. In the cafeteria (galley) the guide pointed out one particular painting of a sea battle between a British and a French ship. I can’t recall if the Brit ship was HMS Vanguard or not. But the French ship, which was clearly on the losing side of the exchange of cannon fire, was clearly marked “Fidelité”. Pretty subtle, eh?
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Helixlovesmoney »

Gort wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:50 pm I would be happy with a spaceship logo.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by bluquark »

In contrast, Wells Fargo kept a version of its horse-drawn carriage logo even after a major rebrand a few years back.

This sort of old-fashioned image connotes trustworthiness, but also obolescence. In the increasingly competitive environment of index funds, Vanguard might feel that their reputation as the old standby with nothing new to offer has become a liability.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Silence Dogood »

Rick Ferri wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:03 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:57 pm
abuss368 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:53 pm It has always bothered me that Vanguard has no section of their website dedicated to Jack Bogle. Really?
When I search "Jack Bogle" on the Vanguard website, I only get one hit: a link to the Bogle Financial Markets Research Center...
There is still a conference building on the Vanguard campus named after Jack, and there is a statue of him in front of that building (moved away from the HQ building after Jack died - another decision by Tim Buckley).

Vanguard has welcomed the Bogleheads community since Jack died, although with diminishing enthusiasm at the top, and that is wearing thin.

Let's face facts, it will be up to the Bogleheads and the independently run 501(c)3 non-profit John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy to keep Jack's name alive.

Rick Ferri
Rick, I would love for you to have Tim Buckley as a guest on the "Bogleheads On Investing Podcast".

Would you be willing to invite him?
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Whakamole »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:46 pm
Iridium wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:21 pm Management enthusiasm to rebrand has always baffled me. The most iconic brands come from decades of building awareness, but so many companies start over every 20 years or so.

The rumored reasoning of trying to distance themselves from Mr. Bogle is even more bizarre than the typical reasoning. While a change in management sometimes requires symbolic gestures to note the change to internal stakeholders, if the old management had a good reputation and the business strategy and market positioning remains the same, generally the company's main goal should be create as much continuity for external customers as possible.
The folks at Vanguard should pay heed to the experience Coca Cola had when they tried to shift to “New Coke”. Spend the money where it’s needed - in technology, not in wasting it on new designs. If it ain’t broke then don’t fix it. The ship is not preventing the flow of assets to move into Vanguard.
Speaking as someone who has been waiting a few weeks to find out why the cost basis for a transferred in mutual fund is different on the cost basis and "sell lots" screen, I would agree.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Marylander1 »

boosnark wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:06 pm Logos tend to evolve over many years, consider Ford Motor Co. or AT&T from the turn of the century to the present. Ditto Microsoft, Apple, or Starbucks. There is a whole marketing science behind the branding of a company's logo so I applaud the move to get with the times.
Marketing tries to call itself science, but that's just marketing. Science knows better.

The key strategic benefit of abandoning the long-standing logo is that when things start to go south at some point, management will demonstrate its commitment to improvement by changing it back.

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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by 000 »

I'm more concerned I don't get to vote on corporate proposals for any of the stocks in my mutual funds (not a Vanguard specific issue, BTW).
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by aednichols »

As a naval history enthusiast and index investor, I am disappointed.

I'm at Schwab where they actually let you nickname accounts. This thread gave me the idea to replace my IRAs' ugly generic names with HMS Vanguard and HMS Agamemnon.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by typical.investor »

Glad Vanguard did the right thing!

Nelson was unabashedly pro-slavery, anti abolitionist and completely racist. There is no good reason whatsoever to use his ship as a symbol of anything.

No-one on this board would want to be violently abused and work without compensation, and the symbols of those who actively supported such a system are offensive to the families of those who sacrificed to end it and abhorred to the families of those who tragically endured it.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by 1789 »

typical.investor wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:03 am Glad Vanguard did the right thing!

Nelson was unabashedly pro-slavery, anti abolitionist and completely racist. There is no good reason whatsoever to use his ship as a symbol of anything.

No-one on this board would want to be violently abused and work without compensation, and the symbols of those who actively supported such a system are offensive to the families of those who sacrificed to end it.
Even Vanguard spokeswoman agrees with you. Look this funny statement.

The Vanguard spokeswoman stressed that Admiral Nelson’s HMS Vanguard “was not involved in the slave trade” and is a different vessel than the slave ship with the same name."

A lot people who got emotional with this news will thank him later.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by Forester »

typical.investor wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:03 am Glad Vanguard did the right thing!

Nelson was unabashedly pro-slavery, anti abolitionist and completely racist. There is no good reason whatsoever to use his ship as a symbol of anything.

No-one on this board would want to be violently abused and work without compensation, and the symbols of those who actively supported such a system are offensive to the families of those who sacrificed to end it and abhorred to the families of those who tragically endured it.
The Ottomans and Barbary Pirates enslaved tens of thousands of Europeans but Near Eastern culture & imagery of that period remains a source of wonder. Humans were in different circumstances two hundred years, it's ridiculous to judge them by today's standards.

I completely get it, Vanguard has to take the safe & easy option, which is to make a pointless branding change alongside a hand-wringing statement, it would be dumb not to. If Vanguard keep the logo then critical articles in 2020 become protests outside Vanguard HQ in 2025.
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Re: Vanguard Abandoning Ship, Developing ‘New Brand Image’ has removed its ship logo from corporate docum

Post by galawdawg »

If the "new brand image" is virtue signaling by Vanguard as suggested by some posters, I can't help but wonder whether Vanguard will take a similar approach to other, more current, ethical and moral issues, such as the detention of an estimated million or more Uighurs by China. Of course, China is not the only country with a record of significant and ongoing human rights abuses. Is Vanguard's approach to international investing inconsistent with its posture on the Vanguard brand and logo, if in fact the change is due to concerns about historical context as some believe?
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