Anybody here trying Coast FIRE?

[canadianbacon]

I dont mean any bad and no disrespect, but you probably lived very privilege life all ur life that it took a twitter poll to figure out that most people work for money and not because they want to work. For most people it is a must to maximize their income so they can pay bills, instead of going for their dream job.

One of my quips at work when one of my reports is unhappy about something they have to do, after demonstrating an appropriate amount of empathy and commiseration, is "We do compensate you twice a month for the inconvenience."

[Armoured]

My son's roommate, after graduating from college and 15 months on a software developer job, just quitted his job, calming it is too much stressful. He plans to find an easy job at McDonald's.
If he does this, he will be coasting for quite some time.

The worst job I ever had as a teenager. Whenever I go through a drive through I am especially courteous; people can be so rude. However, I do wish I had known about investing back then...we would probably be FIRE now. Oh well, at least I can advise our children and hopefully they will listen.

[Armoured]

Then after your money is gone, you can try ForestFIRE, which is where you go into the woods and live off of nuts and berries.
[/quote]

^ This is the funniest thing I've heard all week!
But the week is not over and the Trump/Biden debate starts in 7 minutes and I suspect they will top this comment. Good one though.
[/quote]

I read those quotes to my husband the other day. I had laughed for a couple of minutes after reading the WildFIRE/ForestFIRE comments, an after reading the thread through I appreciate that levity more. There are some witty people on this site.

[Normchad]

In the USA: I think one of biggest reason why people don't COAST and take lower paying job or working part time, etc . is lack of health insurance if you don't work full time. If there were some sort of universal health care, then people would be more inclined to hop from 1 job to another, work less hours, or simply work less days. Many times people stay in miserable job b/c of health care insurance. A friend of mine said he will work until he hits 65 so he can have medicare. He is 63 now and could have comfortably COAST 10 years ago; but is working at a stressful job b/c of health insurance.

It is certainly true that having access to health care tied to your employer is an impediment to change. Lots of my well paid engineer friends hang in until 63.5 to retire. The sole reason is so they can use 18 months of COBRA to tide them over until Medicare eligibility.

[JD2775]

In the USA: I think one of biggest reason why people don't COAST and take lower paying job or working part time, etc . is lack of health insurance if you don't work full time. If there were some sort of universal health care, then people would be more inclined to hop from 1 job to another, work less hours, or simply work less days. Many times people stay in miserable job b/c of health care insurance. A friend of mine said he will work until he hits 65 so he can have medicare. He is 63 now and could have comfortably COAST 10 years ago; but is working at a stressful job b/c of health insurance.

It is certainly true that having access to health care tied to your employer is an impediment to change. Lots of my well paid engineer friends hang in until 63.5 to retire. The sole reason is so they can use 18 months of COBRA to tide them over until Medicare eligibility.

Is COBRA really better than Obamacare? I have no idea, just asking. I am wondering why couldn't they leave at 60, pay for Obamacare for 5 years instead. Assuming they have saved diligently through the years and can afford to.

[Normchad]

In the USA: I think one of biggest reason why people don't COAST and take lower paying job or working part time, etc . is lack of health insurance if you don't work full time. If there were some sort of universal health care, then people would be more inclined to hop from 1 job to another, work less hours, or simply work less days. Many times people stay in miserable job b/c of health care insurance. A friend of mine said he will work until he hits 65 so he can have medicare. He is 63 now and could have comfortably COAST 10 years ago; but is working at a stressful job b/c of health insurance.

It is certainly true that having access to health care tied to your employer is an impediment to change. Lots of my well paid engineer friends hang in until 63.5 to retire. The sole reason is so they can use 18 months of COBRA to tide them over until Medicare eligibility.

Is COBRA really better than Obamacare? I have no idea, just asking. I am wondering why couldn't they leave at 60, pay for Obamacare for 5 years instead. Assuming they have saved diligently through the years and can afford to.

That’s a great question. For my friends, I don’t know if they bothered doing the analysis. COBRA isn’t cheap, so the price is probably in the same ballpark as the ACA if you don’t get subsidies.

For me, I’d absolutely quit today, if I was certain the ACA would remain unchanged until I reach Medicare age. It’s an unresolved issue though, so,I can’t plan with confidence.

[kd2008]

I am just a data point ...not presenting myself as an solution to all ...

I lost my job in 2018 and found another in 2 weeks at 33% pay cut (it may have been more)

This one was a startup ...I was their first employee ...not silicon valley so no equity or anything.

I was pretty burnt in my old job and hated it because I was not appreciated despite working many extra hours.

The same dynamic happened in the new job in the first year but I reacted differently and had frank talk on what they can expect for the pay they pay. I was not angling to be a partner or willing to work 90 hours a week. I am not a chair warmer..I will take off 2 hours in the middle of the day to go to the gym or work just a 6 hour day if I get my work done (I am known to be a fast worker). When we are slammed with work, I will work day and night (extra hours) to finish it up on schedule but that means I also need time of lower load. The reason I could have this frankness is because we are base level FI.

Fast forward 2 years, my income rose 20%. I get nearly identical health and disability benefits plus 6 weeks of vacation (double the previous job) and a higher match than previous job and a mega backdoor option. The vacation time for me is a big deal as it really helps me recharge for periods of super busy time. Things seem more balanced.

My satisfaction comes from being appreciated, from being heard on what I want and being flexible and trusting that I will complete work instead being expected to stick around X number of hours. FI or not, I do like the challenges of my job and it does bring me a smile when I find a solution and go beyond what was requested. Icing on the cake can be when a customer also values it instead of expecting it.

Some people at work say they have never seen anyone take as much time off as me. I just shrug it off.

So my advice if any: Beyond doing your job well, build trust and communicate your ideas of what you value in the offering of benefits beyond compensation. You may be surprised by how you may be able to fashion a win-win out of the constraints that are there with any job.

[CyclingDuo]

Are they guinea pigs of simply exploiting the knowledge and money you’ve gained over the years to be able to concentrate more on the top rather than bottom of the Maslow Hierarchy?

Sure they should work but they can go for those less financially remunerative careers with the safety of knowing retirement is covered if they can just get to that point.

Most folks have to work for money and not passion.

With a moderate pot of money and BH principles our kids don’t have to. I may guide them to a high paying career first but if they can FIRE early they can pursue passion after. Or at least Coast to FIRE doing that.

For the part of the definition of Coast FIRE that I prefer - feel free to call me stubborn - but I only accept the front end loading to benefit from CAGR portion of the definition. I don't agree with or am at least not listening to the other portions of what some are calling it (like quitting your job and taking a lower paying gig) as i believe that the early contributions to one's nest egg so it can grow should not alter one's career choice and career goals. I'm in my 51st year of working.

It's simple standard front end loading which I believe in such as:

Early and often...




Back to the guinea pig example, we had our kids load up their IRA's as much as they could in the teenage and college working years as well as transferring over what was not used in their UTMA's for college - so I was just mentioning that based on this particular version of FIRE called Coast FIRE - I could see how it might work if they approach the number needed to grow to a ball park estimate 30-40 years from now. As opposed to your reference of what level of Maslow Hierarchy that would be, I'd say it is more along the lines of Pavlovian Theory.

Ruff-ruff!

CyclingDuo

[fortunefavored]

In the USA: I think one of biggest reason why people don't COAST and take lower paying job or working part time, etc . is lack of health insurance if you don't work full time. If there were some sort of universal health care, then people would be more inclined to hop from 1 job to another, work less hours, or simply work less days. Many times people stay in miserable job b/c of health care insurance. A friend of mine said he will work until he hits 65 so he can have medicare. He is 63 now and could have comfortably COAST 10 years ago; but is working at a stressful job b/c of health insurance.

It is certainly true that having access to health care tied to your employer is an impediment to change. Lots of my well paid engineer friends hang in until 63.5 to retire. The sole reason is so they can use 18 months of COBRA to tide them over until Medicare eligibility.

Is COBRA really better than Obamacare? I have no idea, just asking. I am wondering why couldn't they leave at 60, pay for Obamacare for 5 years instead. Assuming they have saved diligently through the years and can afford to.

That’s a great question. For my friends, I don’t know if they bothered doing the analysis. COBRA isn’t cheap, so the price is probably in the same ballpark as the ACA if you don’t get subsidies.

For me, I’d absolutely quit today, if I was certain the ACA would remain unchanged until I reach Medicare age. It’s an unresolved issue though, so,I can’t plan with confidence.

ACA plans are extremely bad in many areas. Worse than Medicaid bad. Even where I live, where there is decent ACA plan competition they have VERY small networks, exclude the large research hospitals, and have zero coverage more than 30 miles away other than catastrophic emergency stabilization. And they get worse every year - I have not seen them stabilize yet and I have been keeping a close eye on them as I plan to FIRE any day. It is definitely a significant consideration if one is considering downshifting or coasting in another role.

[unclescrooge]

All right, so after doing a Twitter poll, I owe an apology to some people in this thread. Apparently very, very few people are working primarily for non-monetary reasons. Check it out:

I dont mean any bad and no disrespect, but you probably lived very privilege life all ur life that it took a twitter poll to figure out that most people work for money and not because they want to work. For most people it is a must to maximize their income so they can pay bills, instead of going for their dream job.

You never had to choose whether to work ur dream job or feed ur family. For some people it is reality they live in, they cant choose their dream job,they have to feed their family.

No body gets handed their dream job on a silver platter. There is a lot of hard work, discipline and sacrifice that went before it.

No disrespect, but it really sounds like you have a victimhood mindset. Anyone offering any advice that doesn't match your experience is privileged and their advice is to be discounted.

30% is the people is the Twitter poll said money was less than 50% is the reason they worked. That is a significant number, and not trivial number. ( Although it is biased by people who follow WCI to begin with).

[sojersey]

My guess is FIRE will damage a lot of people. Most of them aren't going to be able to return to work in 10-15 years at near their same wages. Many plan to take advantage of subsidized healthcare, which is a separate discussion, but also a pretty big risk. If you really have the money in place and you want to stop working, you don't need an acronym, you just don't go anymore.

I'm basically fixated on the day I don't have to go to work anymore. I really like my job, so maybe I'll go in after I reach that point? What I'm not going to do on retirement day #1 is contemplate how I can make money now that I've quit my real job.

I do wonder how it will turn out for the folks retiring at 30 or even 40. A lot of them are very smart and talented, and earn a ton of money now. And I agree, I don’t think they’ll be able to get that income again after being out of the work force for ten years. What I do know is, my aspirations and world view changed an awful lot after that age. This affects what and how much I want to spend, etc. and a lot of people might get hit by divorce, disability, kids after that age.

It sounds like a dream life to nope out at that age, but I do wonder how sustainable it will be price to be.

Then again, I doubt many people will ever actually FIRE. I think it gets talked about a lot, but few will actually do it. (I mean retire very young).

I want to co-sign this. My mom went out of work due to an injury in her mid-50s… and after it was probably easier to stay on the disability pay than it should have been. So she did for a while, and attempted to go back to work ~7-8 years later in her early 60s. It was not easy to just get back in. The world got a lot younger and the workplace much more aggressive - so she struggled at 3 different jobs.

My parents are not FI-minded at all, lots of debt due to making pretty good money but spending it poorly keeping up with the Jonses in a high cost area. I am just hoping they are able live modestly off of the empty nest currently for sale. We'll see.

But as for FIRE -- I think it is a mixed bag. I think there's a lot of people talking about FIRE (and following high-monetizing blogs for the popular people writing about how good it is hah!). That said, I think there's a lot of rose-colored glasses where people think ditching their probably monotonous, high-paying job for the barista life is going to make them significantly happier.

Maybe it is possible, but I don't tend to buy it. I don't think happiness comes from work as much as what you do with earnings outside of work. "Capitalism can bring prosperity but it can't bring meaning" I believe is some paraphrase…

If you aren't satisfied, your fixes might involve your job -- but as I turn 35 and "struggle" as much as any generally well-paid software engineer does in the FIRE community after 10+ years working in positions where I am probably quite spoiled relative to most wage earners (tell me if you also roll your eyes at the reddit thread's talking about burnout at Google, hah!)… the fixes for meaning in life probably lay elsewhere.

It was the periphery of work that burned me out. Going out drinking nonstop for years with coworkers in the city in particular… but also not setting boundaries between my work life and my personal life, taking a lot of work home because of not much else to do, ignoring hobbies like I had when I was younger, not seriously looking for or maintaining a meaningful relationship because of being too much of a socialite… until I was surrounded by people who had built them and gotten married.

I like that FIRE is getting a lot of people to save and thinking about the long term, but I think it also makes people think they will magically stop work at 40 and it'll be all just be hunky-dory. Never mind economic and life shocks as others have mentioned, or the tenuous nature that much of it seems to depend on tax and healthcare loopholes that may or may not continue to exist.

So I will agree with them on the "save well, and don't work until the grave" aspect, but don't think I will be coasting as the barista (unless I'm running my own shop, or ideally some kind of cool hostel abroad). I'm going to take the last decade for what it was (having fun and learning a lot of lessons) and continue saving while things are really not so bad and focus on the stuff beyond my work life. Because work life is not so bad.

I know not everyone can say that, but I feel like a lot of the FIRE community is turning a position of huge advantage (privilege as the youths now declare) into some existential struggle that when you take a step back and look at it, enables them a whole lot of options in life

[CyclingDuo]

So I will agree with them on the "save well, and don't work until the grave" aspect, but don't think I will be coasting as the barista (unless I'm running my own shop, or ideally some kind of cool hostel abroad). I'm going to take the last decade for what it was (having fun and learning a lot of lessons) and continue saving while things are really not so bad and focus on the stuff beyond my work life. Because work life is not so bad.

I know not everyone can say that, but I feel like a lot of the FIRE community is turning a position of huge advantage (privilege as the youths now declare) into some existential struggle that when you take a step back and look at it, enables them a whole lot of options in life

Once you have enough money (as in reached the level of FI for one's individual household to be set) all forms of work for money simply become this: a profitable hobby.

Nothing wrong with a nice hobby...

CyclingDuo

[rangerrick9211]

This is great! Now instead of FIRE at 35 years, you can "Coast Fire" at 30! All one had to do was rename FIRE and you can retire 5 years earlier!! This works because the market always goes up. That is so totally awesome! What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, if you had a high paying job that you hated, but amassed a 500K portfolio at 30, it might be reasonable to leave that job, and take one you liked better, even if it paid a lot less. You could do this, and COAST, because the 500K should grow to a big amount over the next 20-35 years.....

For example, somebody that is totally burned out at one of the FANNGS, but longs to be a park ranger, they could go do that.

This aptly describes me.

I'm 33 and have been full gas DINKs through the age of 31 - and now DI one kid. Myself: engineer > MBA > consulting and my spouse an NP. The grind has been very real and we're in the two comma club now. In a week I start a two month sabbatical from my firm to spend more time with our 20 month old and figure out what's next career wise. If I stay the course, we're FI ($2.5m and all assumptions holding) in the next 5 or so years - but I'm cooked. I'm ok delaying FI for a slower pace career and something that has me more present for my kid.

[nigel_ht]

But as for FIRE -- I think it is a mixed bag. I think there's a lot of people talking about FIRE (and following high-monetizing blogs for the popular people writing about how good it is hah!). That said, I think there's a lot of rose-colored glasses where people think ditching their probably monotonous, high-paying job for the barista life is going to make them significantly happier.

I don't think very many people intend on being a barista but rather some other low paying but interesting job you can't normally raise a family on. If I had fired in my late 30s I'd have gone the route of ski instructor at least half the year. Probably still did some kind of software the other half for fun/profit...I did a bit of open source back then before kids.

Maybe it is possible, but I don't tend to buy it. I don't think happiness comes from work as much as what you do with earnings outside of work. "Capitalism can bring prosperity but it can't bring meaning" I believe is some paraphrase…

I like that FIRE is getting a lot of people to save and thinking about the long term, but I think it also makes people think they will magically stop work at 40 and it'll be all just be hunky-dory. Never mind economic and life shocks as others have mentioned, or the tenuous nature that much of it seems to depend on tax and healthcare loopholes that may or may not continue to exist.

Folks that FIRE strike me as folks that usually have a plan for post FIRE. A lot of times that's travel and life experiences so that is good for at least a few years. Along that path you may find something or some place you'd rather be.

If you have to depend on tax and healthcare loopholes I think working another couple years at a high paying job is wise...so you are not marginally FIREd as some seem to do. $1M isn't enough. Having $1M left at 65 strikes me as enough.

[nigel_ht]

This is great! Now instead of FIRE at 35 years, you can "Coast Fire" at 30! All one had to do was rename FIRE and you can retire 5 years earlier!! This works because the market always goes up. That is so totally awesome! What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, if you had a high paying job that you hated, but amassed a 500K portfolio at 30, it might be reasonable to leave that job, and take one you liked better, even if it paid a lot less. You could do this, and COAST, because the 500K should grow to a big amount over the next 20-35 years.....

For example, somebody that is totally burned out at one of the FANNGS, but longs to be a park ranger, they could go do that.

This aptly describes me.

I'm 33 and have been full gas DINKs through the age of 31 - and now DI one kid. Myself: engineer > MBA > consulting and my spouse an NP. The grind has been very real and we're in the two comma club now. In a week I start a two month sabbatical from my firm to spend more time with our 20 month old and figure out what's next career wise. If I stay the course, we're FI ($2.5m and all assumptions holding) in the next 5 or so years - but I'm cooked. I'm ok delaying FI for a slower pace career and something that has me more present for my kid.

Half time at $150K a year pay is better than full time work at $75K if you can swing it...but being done done at 38 has a lot of advantages and with your wife as a NP you guys could move almost anywhere when you become untethered if she wants to continue her career.

If you can be present at age 6 through high school that's almost as good as 1 through high school. Better 6-16 than 1-10 if you may end up getting bored and going back to some kind of full time work.

[Normchad]

This is great! Now instead of FIRE at 35 years, you can "Coast Fire" at 30! All one had to do was rename FIRE and you can retire 5 years earlier!! This works because the market always goes up. That is so totally awesome! What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, if you had a high paying job that you hated, but amassed a 500K portfolio at 30, it might be reasonable to leave that job, and take one you liked better, even if it paid a lot less. You could do this, and COAST, because the 500K should grow to a big amount over the next 20-35 years.....

For example, somebody that is totally burned out at one of the FANNGS, but longs to be a park ranger, they could go do that.

This aptly describes me.

I'm 33 and have been full gas DINKs through the age of 31 - and now DI one kid. Myself: engineer > MBA > consulting and my spouse an NP. The grind has been very real and we're in the two comma club now. In a week I start a two month sabbatical from my firm to spend more time with our 20 month old and figure out what's next career wise. If I stay the course, we're FI ($2.5m and all assumptions holding) in the next 5 or so years - but I'm cooked. I'm ok delaying FI for a slower pace career and something that has me more present for my kid.

I wish you the best of luck Ranger Rick! I know the “cooked” feeling is real. I have a friend at a consultancy. He will end up either very rich or very dead.

Since you already have 2 commas though, you’re in great shape. You’ve got lots of options. I’m glad you’ll get some time away to think through it and figure out what makes sense for *you*.

[firebirdparts]

One of my quips at work when one of my reports is unhappy about something they have to do, after demonstrating an appropriate amount of empathy and commiseration, is "We do compensate you twice a month for the inconvenience."

I used to tell my son the company knows you don't want to go in. They knew it all along.

[zaboomafoozarg]

No desire to Coast FIRE for me, unless the work I do is self-employed and controlled by me. I just want to quit for good.

Actually, my side income already makes 2x what I spend a year so I could probably quit the full-time job. But I'll probably stay for a few more years. I'm trying to get out by 40 now though, instead of my initial goal of 45.

It's been real, it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun.

[TheNightsToCome]

All right, so after doing a Twitter poll, I owe an apology to some people in this thread. Apparently very, very few people are working primarily for non-monetary reasons. Check it out:

Your image/link doesn't work for me. I'd like to check the poll. How can I find it?

[White Coat Investor]

All right, so after doing a Twitter poll, I owe an apology to some people in this thread. Apparently very, very few people are working primarily for non-monetary reasons. Check it out:

Your image/link doesn't work for me. I'd like to check the poll. How can I find it?

I'm sorry. I'm not permitted to post links to my website or to my Twitter feed here. But you could search for it on my Twitter feed. The handle is @WCInvestor. You could also quote this post, take the URL out of the image HTML and put it into your browser. That would probably work too. Basically it shows that only 1.7% of people aren't working for the money and 70% are working primarily just for the money.

[Carguy85]

Looks like a fam of 4 with 40 y/o heads of household in Indiana on bronze Hsa plan unsubsidized is about $1200 a mo... seemingly not bad. That’s about what my anthem Hsa costs now although employer pays half...if that’s the case then early retirement looks doable. Am I missing something?

[TheNightsToCome]

All right, so after doing a Twitter poll, I owe an apology to some people in this thread. Apparently very, very few people are working primarily for non-monetary reasons. Check it out:

Your image/link doesn't work for me. I'd like to check the poll. How can I find it?

I'm sorry. I'm not permitted to post links to my website or to my Twitter feed here. But you could search for it on my Twitter feed. The handle is @WCInvestor. You could also quote this post, take the URL out of the image HTML and put it into your browser. That would probably work too. Basically it shows that only 1.7% of people aren't working for the money and 70% are working primarily just for the money.

Thanks. Found the poll, but I'm not on Twitter so can't vote.

[simplesimon]

One of my quips at work when one of my reports is unhappy about something they have to do, after demonstrating an appropriate amount of empathy and commiseration, is "We do compensate you twice a month for the inconvenience."

I used to tell my son the company knows you don't want to go in. They knew it all along.

Reminds me of a scene from an episode of Mad Men where Peggy is upset for not getting recognition after her boss Don wins an award for a commercial that she came up with.

Don: It's your job! I give you money, you give me ideas.
Peggy: And you never say thank you.
Don: That's what the money is for!

[nigel_ht]

One of my quips at work when one of my reports is unhappy about something they have to do, after demonstrating an appropriate amount of empathy and commiseration, is "We do compensate you twice a month for the inconvenience."

I used to tell my son the company knows you don't want to go in. They knew it all along.

Reminds me of a scene from an episode of Mad Men where Peggy is upset for not getting recognition after her boss Don wins an award for a commercial that she came up with.

Don: It's your job! I give you money, you give me ideas.
Peggy: And you never say thank you.
Don: That's what the money is for!

Yah, but that’s pretty short sighted for any business.

Praise and titles are cheap.

[dziuniek]

What's it called when you have enough net worth to retire almost anywhere in the country except where you currently live?

sure-fire

[EnjoyIt]

I am becoming financially independent by the time most people are getting done with their residency. Are you telling me everyone loves medical school and residency? Why did they waste their best decades going to school and working night shifts?

Because they felt passionately about helping other people and contributing to the world around them in some meaningful way. Maybe not every last one of them, but certainly most of them.

Right, and I’m passionate about helping others as well and in order for me to do that to its fullest extent I need to work for a few more years in a job that I would rather not do. The grind that medical school is and night shifts are is extremely equivalent to my big tech career which is going to allow me to significantly give back to my family and community in my next venture. Am I wasting the next three years of my life by saving up another $500,000 in job I would rather quit even though it's mostly tolerable?

You still haven’t commented on the fact that most people, including doctors, who are given enough money to where they are financially independent would actually quit their job or significantly change what they do. Does that mean they’re wasting their best years? I think that’s the rub here that you haven’t commented on... I think if you are honest, the generalization you made about it being “sad” that someone in their 30s would only work for money (even for a time) is wrong and hypocritical.

When I have polled multiple audiences of physicians almost none would quit completely if given $10M, but they'd almost all work less!

I'm a physician and I think at $10 million I would walk away. I have less than $10 million and have already cut back to part time. So yeah, working less is great and lets me enjoy my work. But at $10 million I would have a hard time getting myself to keep working. Okay, maybe I would still do it if I hired an NP/PA to do the majority of my job for me so that all I had to do was talk to patients and maybe a few procedures.

[EnjoyIt]

I am becoming financially independent by the time most people are getting done with their residency. Are you telling me everyone loves medical school and residency? Why did they waste their best decades going to school and working night shifts?

Because they felt passionately about helping other people and contributing to the world around them in some meaningful way. Maybe not every last one of them, but certainly most of them.

Right, and I’m passionate about helping others as well and in order for me to do that to its fullest extent I need to work for a few more years in a job that I would rather not do. The grind that medical school is and night shifts are is extremely equivalent to my big tech career which is going to allow me to significantly give back to my family and community in my next venture. Am I wasting the next three years of my life by saving up another $500,000 in job I would rather quit even though it's mostly tolerable?

You still haven’t commented on the fact that most people, including doctors, who are given enough money to where they are financially independent would actually quit their job or significantly change what they do. Does that mean they’re wasting their best years? I think that’s the rub here that you haven’t commented on... I think if you are honest, the generalization you made about it being “sad” that someone in their 30s would only work for money (even for a time) is wrong and hypocritical.

When I have polled multiple audiences of physicians almost none would quit completely if given $10M, but they'd almost all work less!

“One survey found that on average, 45% of resident physicians experience burnout. This ranged from 29.2%-63.8%. The prevalence of career choice regret was between 7.4%-32.7%”
...
“The most recent findings were similar to 2016 with 79% of primary care professionals reporting burnout. This is higher than the 54% of specialists who reported similar symptoms. But of both groups, more than one-third would not recommend their profession to a younger family member.”

https://etactics.com/blog/physician-burnout-statistics

Random google so I haven’t checked sources but somehow I think you are painting a rosier picture than reality...

I experienced burnout in my career. I became financially independent and cut back to part time. I am no longer burned out and enjoy my work. I admit it took some time to get past it though.

[EnjoyIt]

However, I'm considering going back to school to specialize in a less demanding specialty so that I can work part time, low stress, indefinitely.

Please explain. You retired from your medical career, but now you think you might like to apply for a residency position in a new specialty?

Yeah, exactly. I'm considering it.

May I ask, what training program / specialty are you considering that is worth X more years of residency?

[EnjoyIt]

In the USA: I think one of biggest reason why people don't COAST and take lower paying job or working part time, etc . is lack of health insurance if you don't work full time. If there were some sort of universal health care, then people would be more inclined to hop from 1 job to another, work less hours, or simply work less days. Many times people stay in miserable job b/c of health care insurance. A friend of mine said he will work until he hits 65 so he can have medicare. He is 63 now and could have comfortably COAST 10 years ago; but is working at a stressful job b/c of health insurance.

It is certainly true that having access to health care tied to your employer is an impediment to change. Lots of my well paid engineer friends hang in until 63.5 to retire. The sole reason is so they can use 18 months of COBRA to tide them over until Medicare eligibility.

Is COBRA really better than Obamacare? I have no idea, just asking. I am wondering why couldn't they leave at 60, pay for Obamacare for 5 years instead. Assuming they have saved diligently through the years and can afford to.

We get health insurance through my spouses employer. I looked at ACA insurance in the area and the doctors that are in network. In particular the specialists on those plans I would not send my enemy to. None of the quality physicians that I know take the available ACA plans.

I'm sure there are some good docs taking ACA insurance, I just don't know any of them.

[latesaver]

There is only a moderate set of careers that provide good income...doctors being one. So if you are lucky enough to have a passion for one great! But for most folks, not so much. My kids are looking at college and don't know what they want to be.

My son is looking at CRNA (nurse anesthetist) and doing community college while in HS to see if he can get a AA degree in a year and go the BSN route. But CRNA is for the money...not because he has a real passion for it (he hasn't even shadowed yet) and its a long road from here to there (4 years college + 2+ years RN in ICU/CCU + 2-3 years CRNA school).

I'll possibly push my daughter into engineering or pharmacy if she continues not to have a preference. Again, because of money. A PharmD takes 8 years (4 college, 3-4 for PharmD). Engineering or CompSci is the quickest route to a good salary (4 years boom and done).

Work is work. Even the best job has ups and downs and passions generally don't align with a remunerative career. Otherwise my kid could major in video games...(no, he's not good enough to win at e-sports).

The first bolded statement is nebulous (what's a "moderate set" and what is "good income"). As most would define good income, there are a lot of careers available.

the second bold excerpt is just depressing. i would never "push" my kids into a career if they have no preference "because of money".

you are being to dogmatic. work doesn't have to be "just a job" and it doesn't have to be "something you love" either. i work in finance; i love working in excel; and i am really good at it. my boss is a narcissist and there are definitely days that suck but all in all, i have it pretty good. and i am paid well to boot.

[KyleAAA]

My son's roommate, after graduating from college and 15 months on a software developer job, just quitted his job, calming it is too much stressful. He plans to find an easy job at McDonald's.
If he does this, he will be coasting for quite some time.

The worst job I ever had as a teenager. Whenever I go through a drive through I am especially courteous; people can be so rude. However, I do wish I had known about investing back then...we would probably be FIRE now. Oh well, at least I can advise our children and hopefully they will listen.

Yeah. I have to think people who believe they will do service jobs as a low-stress way to make some money in early retirement have never done a service job. I think most people will find they are more stressful than their office jobs ever were.

[mrmass]

My son's roommate, after graduating from college and 15 months on a software developer job, just quitted his job, calming it is too much stressful. He plans to find an easy job at McDonald's.
If he does this, he will be coasting for quite some time.

The worst job I ever had as a teenager. Whenever I go through a drive through I am especially courteous; people can be so rude. However, I do wish I had known about investing back then...we would probably be FIRE now. Oh well, at least I can advise our children and hopefully they will listen.

Yeah. I have to think people who believe they will do service jobs as a low-stress way to make some money in early retirement have never done a service job. I think most people will find they are more stressful than their office jobs ever were.

This yes. I can't imagine taking orders for coffee from people...I'd rather be a janitor.

[redmaw]

My dream job is take my kids to school, clean the house, cook, pick them up from school, playing games with them. It doesn't pay so I play the hand I am dealt until FIRE.

You failed MarriageFIRE...where you can claim to have FIRE’d while living off your spouse...maybe there’s an official term for it since so many have done that...

in another thread it was termed wifefire... its my favorite post on BH.

[jibantik]

My son's roommate, after graduating from college and 15 months on a software developer job, just quitted his job, calming it is too much stressful. He plans to find an easy job at McDonald's.
If he does this, he will be coasting for quite some time.

The worst job I ever had as a teenager. Whenever I go through a drive through I am especially courteous; people can be so rude. However, I do wish I had known about investing back then...we would probably be FIRE now. Oh well, at least I can advise our children and hopefully they will listen.

Yeah. I have to think people who believe they will do service jobs as a low-stress way to make some money in early retirement have never done a service job. I think most people will find they are more stressful than their office jobs ever were.

This yes. I can't imagine taking orders for coffee from people...I'd rather be a janitor.

+1. That kid is in for a rude awakening

[CyclingDuo]

This yes. I can't imagine taking orders for coffee from people...I'd rather be a janitor.

Either way, you're dealing with brown liquid...

[nigel_ht]

There is only a moderate set of careers that provide good income...doctors being one. So if you are lucky enough to have a passion for one great! But for most folks, not so much. My kids are looking at college and don't know what they want to be.

My son is looking at CRNA (nurse anesthetist) and doing community college while in HS to see if he can get a AA degree in a year and go the BSN route. But CRNA is for the money...not because he has a real passion for it (he hasn't even shadowed yet) and its a long road from here to there (4 years college + 2+ years RN in ICU/CCU + 2-3 years CRNA school).

I'll possibly push my daughter into engineering or pharmacy if she continues not to have a preference. Again, because of money. A PharmD takes 8 years (4 college, 3-4 for PharmD). Engineering or CompSci is the quickest route to a good salary (4 years boom and done).

Work is work. Even the best job has ups and downs and passions generally don't align with a remunerative career. Otherwise my kid could major in video games...(no, he's not good enough to win at e-sports).

The first bolded statement is nebulous (what's a "moderate set" and what is "good income"). As most would define good income, there are a lot of careers available.

the second bold excerpt is just depressing. i would never "push" my kids into a career if they have no preference "because of money".

you are being to dogmatic. work doesn't have to be "just a job" and it doesn't have to be "something you love" either. i work in finance; i love working in excel; and i am really good at it. my boss is a narcissist and there are definitely days that suck but all in all, i have it pretty good. and i am paid well to boot.

There are majors where the median income is below the median income of all graduates. These have terrible ROIs for both time invested and money invested. These do not have "good income".

Then there are a set of majors where the median income is more or less the same as the median income of all graduates. These are "meh".

Finally there are a set of majors where the median income is meaningfully above the median income of all graduates. These have "good income".

To recap my post in another thread:

Median annual earnings of 25- to 29-year-old bachelor’s degree holders

EE $78.7K
CompSci $70.1K
General Engineering $68.9K
Math $54.6K

Median: $50.6K

English Lit: $44.6K
Liberal Arts and Humanities: $40.3K

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/pdf/coe_sbc.pdf

Starbucks Assistant Store Manager: $43.7K
Barista $25.1K

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Starbu ... PT1020.htm

So these definitions aren't "nebulous"...they just aren't necessary to detail in the context of THIS thread.

My daughter has no preference...and that's very common.

Finance is perfectly fine. I suggested finance or accounting and her comment was it sounded too boring. Okay, fine. Pick ANY major in that list that makes $55K+.

That's not "dogmatic". What do you suggest instead? "Why don't you get a liberal arts degree and make about as much as a career at Starbucks"?

Nothing wrong with a career at Starbucks but I'm not paying for that. I'd rather just park $150K into TSM for her retirement rather than pay for liberal arts degree unless it's at Harvard.

[Wanderingwheelz]

"Anybody here trying Coast FIRE?"

No, not at all.

A lot of people are who have a spouse who is still working full-time and/or wealthy parents. I know a few people who are doing it but as far as I know they don’t have a name for it.

[Ron Ronnerson]

I call it easing-off-the-gas-pedal but I suppose coast FIRE is pretty much the same idea.

Our path has looked like this:
We worked full time until about age 35 and then began working less even though it meant having less income.
Age 35: My wife started working 32 hours/week and I worked 30 hours/week on average.
Age 40: My wife reduced hours a little further to 30 hours and I stayed at 30 hours.
Age 43: My wife became a stay-at-home parent and I continued to work the same hours. She may or may not get a job in the future.
Age 55 (9 years from now): I may go down to around 20 hours a week. We should be able to do this financially but I like my job so I’m not sure if I’ll want to reduce hours.
Age 59-61: Retire

The concept of compound interest largely drives our approach. We have saved enough to coast as of now but adding a bit more padding, especially as I like my job, doesn't hurt anything.

[marcopolo]

I call it easing-off-the-gas-pedal but I suppose coast FIRE is pretty much the same idea.

Our path has looked like this:
We worked full time until about age 35 and then began working less even though it meant having less income.
Age 35: My wife started working 32 hours/week and I worked 30 hours/week on average.
Age 40: My wife reduced hours a little further to 30 hours and I stayed at 30 hours.
Age 43: My wife became a stay-at-home parent and I continued to work the same hours. She may or may not get a job in the future.
Age 55 (9 years from now): I may go down to around 20 hours a week. We should be able to do this financially but I like my job so I’m not sure if I’ll want to reduce hours.
Age 59-61: Retire

The concept of compound interest largely drives our approach. We have saved enough to coast as of now but adding a bit more padding, especially as I like my job, doesn't hurt anything.

If I recall correctly you are a public school teacher in the Bay Area. I am a bit surprised you are allowed to scale your working hours like that. Is that common for public school teaching positions?

[Tattarrattat]

CampFIRE: market turns south, they foreclose on your house, and you have to live in a tent.

[Ron Ronnerson]

I call it easing-off-the-gas-pedal but I suppose coast FIRE is pretty much the same idea.

Our path has looked like this:
We worked full time until about age 35 and then began working less even though it meant having less income.
Age 35: My wife started working 32 hours/week and I worked 30 hours/week on average.
Age 40: My wife reduced hours a little further to 30 hours and I stayed at 30 hours.
Age 43: My wife became a stay-at-home parent and I continued to work the same hours. She may or may not get a job in the future.
Age 55 (9 years from now): I may go down to around 20 hours a week. We should be able to do this financially but I like my job so I’m not sure if I’ll want to reduce hours.
Age 59-61: Retire

The concept of compound interest largely drives our approach. We have saved enough to coast as of now but adding a bit more padding, especially as I like my job, doesn't hurt anything.

If I recall correctly you are a public school teacher in the Bay Area. I am a bit surprised you are allowed to scale your working hours like that. Is that common for public school teaching positions?

Yes, I'm a public school teacher in the Bay Area and many teachers in the district I work for do job-shares. This is regardless of age. I am at an elementary school and job share partners can decide to split up duties anyway that they wish. For example, teacher #1 might work Mondays-Wednesdays and their partner, teacher #2, might teach on Thursdays and Fridays. Teacher #1 would get 60% of the pay that a full-time teacher earns and teacher #2 would get 40% of the pay.

At the school where I work, many teachers work part time. It gets better once you're age 55 and work at least 50% of the time. If you can check off those two boxes, you would earn retirement credit toward the pension as if you had worked full time during that year despite working less than full time. Employees are still responsible for making pension contributions as if they were working full time, though. Another potential advantage of reducing hours (and thus the salary) is that it might help one's children qualify for financial aid if they are in college. It can also possibly help someone qualify for the premium tax credit on the health exchange. My district doesn't contribute anything toward health benefits. This also surprises some but is not uncommon in the area.

[marcopolo]

I call it easing-off-the-gas-pedal but I suppose coast FIRE is pretty much the same idea.

Our path has looked like this:
We worked full time until about age 35 and then began working less even though it meant having less income.
Age 35: My wife started working 32 hours/week and I worked 30 hours/week on average.
Age 40: My wife reduced hours a little further to 30 hours and I stayed at 30 hours.
Age 43: My wife became a stay-at-home parent and I continued to work the same hours. She may or may not get a job in the future.
Age 55 (9 years from now): I may go down to around 20 hours a week. We should be able to do this financially but I like my job so I’m not sure if I’ll want to reduce hours.
Age 59-61: Retire

The concept of compound interest largely drives our approach. We have saved enough to coast as of now but adding a bit more padding, especially as I like my job, doesn't hurt anything.

If I recall correctly you are a public school teacher in the Bay Area. I am a bit surprised you are allowed to scale your working hours like that. Is that common for public school teaching positions?

Yes, I'm a public school teacher in the Bay Area and many teachers in the district I work for do job-shares. This is regardless of age. I am at an elementary school and job share partners can decide to split up duties anyway that they wish. For example, teacher #1 might work Mondays-Wednesdays and their partner, teacher #2, might teach on Thursdays and Fridays. Teacher #1 would get 60% of the pay that a full-time teacher earns and teacher #2 would get 40% of the pay.

At the school where I work, many teachers work part time. It gets better once you're age 55 and work at least 50% of the time. If you can check off those two boxes, you would earn retirement credit toward the pension as if you had worked full time during that year despite working less than full time. Employees are still responsible for making pension contributions as if they were working full time, though. Another potential advantage of reducing hours (and thus the salary) is that it might help one's children qualify for financial aid if they are in college. It can also possibly help someone qualify for the premium tax credit on the health exchange. My district doesn't contribute anything toward health benefits. This also surprises some but is not uncommon in the area.

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

[22twain]

You failed MarriageFIRE...where you can claim to have FIRE’d while living off your spouse...maybe there’s an official term for it since so many have done that...

in another thread it was termed wifefire...

How about WiFIRE?

Of course, the reverse-gendered situation was considered standard practice for a long time, and is still considered the ideal practice in some circles, so we really shouldn't be calling this out.

[Kintora]

Kevin Spacey Coast FIRE...

https://youtu.be/TJh5wdvdfVE

[mmmodem]

My son's roommate, after graduating from college and 15 months on a software developer job, just quitted his job, calming it is too much stressful. He plans to find an easy job at McDonald's.
If he does this, he will be coasting for quite some time.

The worst job I ever had as a teenager. Whenever I go through a drive through I am especially courteous; people can be so rude. However, I do wish I had known about investing back then...we would probably be FIRE now. Oh well, at least I can advise our children and hopefully they will listen.

Yeah. I have to think people who believe they will do service jobs as a low-stress way to make some money in early retirement have never done a service job. I think most people will find they are more stressful than their office jobs ever were.

Speaking as someone who worked at McDonalds I know first-hand what it is. It is easily magnitudes of order more (for lack of a better word) work than my desk job. And it pays very little. However, that's not what Barista or Coast FIRE is.

If a fast-food gig is too stressful, you are free to be a grocery checker. Or maybe my town clerk that is currently only open 4 hours a week in the middle of the day when everyone is at work with an hour lunch in between so you can't even go during your lunch break.

I digress. I've worked at a grocery store, fast-food and assembly line operator. These will not be the low stress jobs I am targeting when I FIRE. Some may find them low stress, I don't. I'm thinking a lecturer for 1 or 2 classes a semester at the local community college.

[KyleAAA]

My son's roommate, after graduating from college and 15 months on a software developer job, just quitted his job, calming it is too much stressful. He plans to find an easy job at McDonald's.
If he does this, he will be coasting for quite some time.

The worst job I ever had as a teenager. Whenever I go through a drive through I am especially courteous; people can be so rude. However, I do wish I had known about investing back then...we would probably be FIRE now. Oh well, at least I can advise our children and hopefully they will listen.

Yeah. I have to think people who believe they will do service jobs as a low-stress way to make some money in early retirement have never done a service job. I think most people will find they are more stressful than their office jobs ever were.

Speaking as someone who worked at McDonalds I know first-hand what it is. It is easily magnitudes of order more (for lack of a better word) work than my desk job. And it pays very little. However, that's not what Barista or Coast FIRE is.

The point is that a lot of people have a a plan that isn't at all well thought out. They have this thing they see as a backup plan that in reality is going to be much more stressful and much less lucrative than what they're currently doing. I've seen quite a few people explicitly say they will just get an easy job at Starbucks if they need the money.

[EnjoyIt]

My son's roommate, after graduating from college and 15 months on a software developer job, just quitted his job, calming it is too much stressful. He plans to find an easy job at McDonald's.
If he does this, he will be coasting for quite some time.

The worst job I ever had as a teenager. Whenever I go through a drive through I am especially courteous; people can be so rude. However, I do wish I had known about investing back then...we would probably be FIRE now. Oh well, at least I can advise our children and hopefully they will listen.

Yeah. I have to think people who believe they will do service jobs as a low-stress way to make some money in early retirement have never done a service job. I think most people will find they are more stressful than their office jobs ever were.

Speaking as someone who worked at McDonalds I know first-hand what it is. It is easily magnitudes of order more (for lack of a better word) work than my desk job. And it pays very little. However, that's not what Barista or Coast FIRE is.

The point is that a lot of people have a a plan that isn't at all well thought out. They have this thing they see as a backup plan that in reality is going to be much more stressful and much less lucrative than what they're currently doing. I've seen quite a few people explicitly say they will just get an easy job at Starbucks if they need the money.

My father knew a neurosurgeon who quite and opened up a Persian rug store. He said his life was less stressful.

[nigel_ht]

The worst job I ever had as a teenager. Whenever I go through a drive through I am especially courteous; people can be so rude. However, I do wish I had known about investing back then...we would probably be FIRE now. Oh well, at least I can advise our children and hopefully they will listen.

Yeah. I have to think people who believe they will do service jobs as a low-stress way to make some money in early retirement have never done a service job. I think most people will find they are more stressful than their office jobs ever were.

Speaking as someone who worked at McDonalds I know first-hand what it is. It is easily magnitudes of order more (for lack of a better word) work than my desk job. And it pays very little. However, that's not what Barista or Coast FIRE is.

The point is that a lot of people have a a plan that isn't at all well thought out. They have this thing they see as a backup plan that in reality is going to be much more stressful and much less lucrative than what they're currently doing. I've seen quite a few people explicitly say they will just get an easy job at Starbucks if they need the money.

My father knew a neurosurgeon who quite and opened up a Persian rug store. He said his life was less stressful.

Is it still less stressful?

I know a guy who quit his engineering job to open an ice cream store. It was great for a while then started struggling. I haven't been there since covid so no idea if its even still open.

I thought about teaching English overseas in retirement and spoke with a few folks that did that. It's possible if you completely don't care about office politics, favoritism, idiotic policies, micromanagement and craptastic pay. Since it wouldn't be for the money maybe I could do that. Probably I'd get pissed off and quit in a few months or a year.

Yah, there are a lot of stuff that folks talk about that don't work as well in reality as they might think. FI and done is best. Working part time in the same high paying career until your can FI is second best. Working a couple extra years in a high paying job and then FI is better than trying to coast in on one of these alternates. At least its the devil you know AND you get paid a lot.

[stoptothink]

Yeah. I have to think people who believe they will do service jobs as a low-stress way to make some money in early retirement have never done a service job. I think most people will find they are more stressful than their office jobs ever were.

Speaking as someone who worked at McDonalds I know first-hand what it is. It is easily magnitudes of order more (for lack of a better word) work than my desk job. And it pays very little. However, that's not what Barista or Coast FIRE is.

The point is that a lot of people have a a plan that isn't at all well thought out. They have this thing they see as a backup plan that in reality is going to be much more stressful and much less lucrative than what they're currently doing. I've seen quite a few people explicitly say they will just get an easy job at Starbucks if they need the money.

My father knew a neurosurgeon who quite and opened up a Persian rug store. He said his life was less stressful.

Is it still less stressful?

I know a guy who quit his engineering job to open an ice cream store. It was great for a while then started struggling. I haven't been there since covid so no idea if its even still open.

I thought about teaching English overseas in retirement and spoke with a few folks that did that. It's possible if you completely don't care about office politics, favoritism, idiotic policies, micromanagement and craptastic pay. Since it wouldn't be for the money maybe I could do that. Probably I'd get pissed off and quit in a few months or a year.

Yah, there are a lot of stuff that folks talk about that don't work as well in reality as they might think. FI and done is best. Working part time in the same high paying career until your can FI is second best. Working a couple extra years in a high paying job and then FI is better than trying to coast in on one of these alternates. At least its the devil you know AND you get paid a lot.

My boss is/was an infectious disease physician. He was becoming jaded about healthcare ~12yrs ago, quit and started a company with a childhood friend and 4 colleagues. He's now probably worth 9-figures, but there is no way he's less stressed.

[flyingaway]

I call it easing-off-the-gas-pedal but I suppose coast FIRE is pretty much the same idea.

Our path has looked like this:
We worked full time until about age 35 and then began working less even though it meant having less income.
Age 35: My wife started working 32 hours/week and I worked 30 hours/week on average.
Age 40: My wife reduced hours a little further to 30 hours and I stayed at 30 hours.
Age 43: My wife became a stay-at-home parent and I continued to work the same hours. She may or may not get a job in the future.
Age 55 (9 years from now): I may go down to around 20 hours a week. We should be able to do this financially but I like my job so I’m not sure if I’ll want to reduce hours.
Age 59-61: Retire

The concept of compound interest largely drives our approach. We have saved enough to coast as of now but adding a bit more padding, especially as I like my job, doesn't hurt anything.

If I recall correctly you are a public school teacher in the Bay Area. I am a bit surprised you are allowed to scale your working hours like that. Is that common for public school teaching positions?

Yes, I'm a public school teacher in the Bay Area and many teachers in the district I work for do job-shares. This is regardless of age. I am at an elementary school and job share partners can decide to split up duties anyway that they wish. For example, teacher #1 might work Mondays-Wednesdays and their partner, teacher #2, might teach on Thursdays and Fridays. Teacher #1 would get 60% of the pay that a full-time teacher earns and teacher #2 would get 40% of the pay.

At the school where I work, many teachers work part time. It gets better once you're age 55 and work at least 50% of the time. If you can check off those two boxes, you would earn retirement credit toward the pension as if you had worked full time during that year despite working less than full time. Employees are still responsible for making pension contributions as if they were working full time, though. Another potential advantage of reducing hours (and thus the salary) is that it might help one's children qualify for financial aid if they are in college. It can also possibly help someone qualify for the premium tax credit on the health exchange. My district doesn't contribute anything toward health benefits. This also surprises some but is not uncommon in the area.

I'm interested in knowing how students are reacting to different teachers to teach the same class on different days of the week, or that is not a consideration?