Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

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Sheepdog
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Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

My wife (80) and I (87) have all of our investments at Vanguard (except for I Bonds and SPIAs). A problem is that she will not use a computer....she won't even try. "How will you get to your money needs when I can't?", I constantly ask. Sigh. She has never really worried about that. "I will be fine", she said. However, I think she is finally becoming concerned as she is trying to plan for my coming birthday. "Hey, he won't be here always. How will I get what I need?". She came up to me this weekend to say "Why can't we move our money closer to home.?"

Okay, she and I, a year or so ago, called Vanguard and they said she could do ALL transactions by phone and USPS. So, she has her "My voice is my password" set up. That may work for some things, but I (we) don't trust them. There are, too often, too many communication problems with VG representatives, as you know or have heard of. When I die or incapacitated, I can't see her getting fast results and she can't either. "Can't we move everything to a local stock firm? How about our bank's trust operations?" she asked, believing that is the way to go. "No way", I told her. "Don't you remember when we used stock brokers and how much it cost and how little we gained and how they sold us stuff which made them money but not us?." So, I am thinking.......
It really would be so much better for her to be able to have some investments and money available through an office here.....where she could walk in, talk, and ask for help with her investments, and in getting funds when she needs them.. Many people, including Bogleheads, like Schwab. We have a Schwab office here which is close by to our home. Schwab funds have low costs, especially index funds. So, we are considering (planning) to move her rollover and Roth IRAs to them and would keep mine with Vanguard. Her rollover IRA has $50,000 and her Roth IRA has $230,000. We would open a MM account there also. Any money needs beyond our bank checking account can be handled there until my IRAs can be transferred to her. (Our 2000-02 I Bonds, registered in a revocable trust, are also available just by cashing at the bank.)
So, how should this $280,000 be invested at Schwab?. Her investments now are all in Wellesley and Balanced Index, conservative and fruitful. I would like the new ones be as conservative and probably in the 35 to 40% stock percent range. Any advice you may have will be much appreciated.
Thanks.
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delamer
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by delamer »

Can you transfer the assets in-kind?

Even if there were some one-time fees involved, that could be your best option.

Just wanted to note that I think your plan to move her assets to Schwab is a good one. A win-win, given that your wife will have the local connection that she wants but at a low cost.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by David Jay »

It is important for you to make provision for her well-being. I would make the move to Schwab.

Sorry, I can’t help with Schwab fund selection...
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Schwab and Fidelity have real brick and mortar offices as does TDAmeritrade, who will become Schwab...not sure how they'll decide offices to leave open. Your task really is to look at the makeup of your current investments and see if you can build them somewhere else. I do know that Fidelity has target date INDEX funds. Although I have a Schwab account, it's taxable and I only buy SCHB (like VTSAX or VTI). They do have excellent mutual funds.

I think any of these could do fine and would certainly be better than a stock broker or bank.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by ResearchMed »

I agree with moving at least some of the/her money to Schwab.

We remain very impressed with their service; the mutual fund offerings are pretty similar these days, and probably no longer a reason to choose Firm A over Firm B - as long as one chooses low cost funds.

One caveat: Make SURE that you impress upon them that you do NOT want any "financial advisor", or at least no one with any costs. We've found the 'regular' person "assigned" has always been very helpful, getting things set up, or answering occasional questions.

And their telephone support and online chat are also great. Sounds like she won't want to use chat, but the good phone support, any time, might be useful.

How about setting up a checking account for her now, and have her 'try it out' occasionally. Does she pay bills/write checks at all now?

Also: Does she have any charge cards that are in HER name, and *not* as a supplemental account holder on your main account.
You might want to make sure she has at least two of those in place (different networks such as VISA and MasterCard, or MasterCard and Amex), so those are ready to go. Charge some annually recurring expense on that/those.

And finally, perhaps both of you go in to meet with someone at the local Schwab office? Just to 'say hi", and to get her familiar with that particular office. Perhaps meet with the manager? Anyway, again, impress upon that person as above, that no additional costs/advisory services are wanted.
We had a few exploratory phone calls from them initially, and after making it more clear about NO "extra cost services", those stopped entirely. But the access for routine questions remains.

Note that they do not help with "cash needs". For that, you/she would need to get a check and take it to a regular bank.
They used to have "call us and in a short time, we'll have a check waiting for you", but now it is "next day", but that shouldn't be a problem, especially with a checking account there.

I'll defer to others about choices of funds.
If you are wanting to use Vanguard funds, given the amount you'd be transferring, as them for some waived transaction fees. But those may sort of vanish over time if not used, so you might want to keep on top of that. We didn't, and those are "gone", but we don't have any need to push it.
(MIL's trust account was opened there, and she had/has one favored stock that we haven't sold because she was attached to it for whatever reason. I chose not to push that; it clearly was emotional, including for DH. So it's gone way down, but it a very, very small part of her money, so it wasn't worth it. That was what the waived fees were to be for...)

Sounds like good planning!

RM
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snailderby
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by snailderby »

Would she prefer an all-in-one fund at Schwab? And will she be making any new purchases at Schwab or just selling shares of funds she already owns?
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

delamer wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:22 am Can you transfer the assets in-kind?

Even if there were some one-time fees involved, that could be your best option.
She only has Vanguard Wellesley and Balanced Index and I don't believe that they can do that, but it wouldn't hurt to ask,Thank you.
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Sheepdog
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

snailderby wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:32 am Would she prefer an all-in-one fund at Schwab? And will she be making any new purchases at Schwab or just selling shares of funds she already owns?
She wants me to make the decision. An all in one fund would be okay "A Schwab target fund might work.
No, there will not be any new purchases.

Thanks.
Woof
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rixer
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by rixer »

I'm at Schwab, When I retired, I put most everything in Vanguard Strategy fund, conservative growth. There's a fee of about $75 ( I think) to purchase and no fee to sell, ever. So it was just a small one time fee. I supose you could do the same with the other Vanguard Funds.
At any rate, the Schwab website is very user friendly and doesn't take much time to learn what you need for your purposes.
Good move.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by radiowave »

Schwab has some target date retirement funds for 0.08% (8 basis points). See https://www.schwabfunds.com/node/3946 that may be worthwhile. Set and forget and no financial advisor needed. And here is a list of the low cost mutual funds: https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/i ... onesource
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Sheepdog
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:39 am Schwab and Fidelity have real brick and mortar offices as does TDAmeritrade, who will become Schwab...not sure how they'll decide offices to leave open. Your task really is to look at the makeup of your current investments and see if you can build them somewhere else. I do know that Fidelity has target date INDEX funds. Although I have a Schwab account, it's taxable and I only buy SCHB (like VTSAX or VTI). They do have excellent mutual funds.

I think any of these could do fine and would certainly be better than a stock broker or bank.
We don't have Fidelity, TDAmeritrade Fidelity offices here. I am lucky that Schwab is here now. All investments at Schwab will be their low cost in-house funds, I would believe.

Thanks for bringing that up.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by snailderby »

It looks like Schwab offers both VBIAX (Vanguard Balanced Index Fund) and VWIAX (Vanguard Wellesley® Income Fund), although there is a transaction fee for new purchases. That gives you several options:

1. Ask if Schwab will let you transfer either or both Vanguard funds to Schwab in kind, like delamer suggested.

2. If not, buy these Vanguard funds for a one-time transaction fee at Schwab.

3. Alternatively, use one of Schwab's target index funds instead.

P.S. If you haven't already done this, it may be worth looking into whether you can get a bonus for transferring your assets to Schwab.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by rkhusky »

What happens when she can’t walk as well? The physical office won’t matter. Is it within walking distance? Need to drive or get a lift?
Last edited by rkhusky on Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
7eight9
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by 7eight9 »

If you have any friends with Schwab accounts you might want to consider asking them to send you a referral code.

You will get $500 with a transfer of $100K+.

Link to description of Schwab's Referral Offer --- https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn ... spect.html
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

ResearchMed wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:50 am I agree with moving at least some of the/her money to Schwab.

We remain very impressed with their service; the mutual fund offerings are pretty similar these days, and probably no longer a reason to choose Firm A over Firm B - as long as one chooses low cost funds.

One caveat: Make SURE that you impress upon them that you do NOT want any "financial advisor", or at least no one with any costs. We've found the 'regular' person "assigned" has always been very helpful, getting things set up, or answering occasional questions.
GOOD POINT. i WILL TELL THEM THAT


And their telephone support and online chat are also great. Sounds like she won't want to use chat, but the good phone support, any time, might be useful.

How about setting up a checking account for her now, and have her 'try it out' occasionally. Does she pay bills/write checks at all now?
THAT IS MY PLAN.

Also: Does she have any charge cards that are in HER name, and *not* as a supplemental account holder on your main account.
You might want to make sure she has at least two of those in place (different networks such as VISA and MasterCard, or MasterCard and Amex), so those are ready to go. Charge some annually recurring expense on that/those.
NO, SHE DOES NOT HAVE HER OWN...JUST IN HER NAME, GOOD IDEA.

And finally, perhaps both of you go in to meet with someone at the local Schwab office? Just to 'say hi", and to get her familiar with that particular office. Perhaps meet with the manager? Anyway, again, impress upon that person as above, that no additional costs/advisory services are wanted.
We had a few exploratory phone calls from them initially, and after making it more clear about NO "extra cost services", those stopped entirely. But the access for routine questions remains.
THAT IS IN OUR AGENDA.

Note that they do not help with "cash needs". For that, you/she would need to get a check and take it to a regular bank.
They used to have "call us and in a short time, we'll have a check waiting for you", but now it is "next day", but that shouldn't be a problem, especially with a checking account there.
I UNDERSTAND
I'll defer to others about choices of funds.

If you are wanting to use Vanguard funds, given the amount you'd be transferring, as them for some waived transaction fees. But those may sort of vanish over time if not used, so you might want to keep on top of that. We didn't, and those are "gone", but we don't have any need to push it.
(MIL's trust account was opened there, and she had/has one favored stock that we haven't sold because she was attached to it for whatever reason. I chose not to push that; it clearly was emotional, including for DH. So it's gone way down, but it a very, very small part of her money, so it wasn't worth it. That was what the waived fees were to be for...)
I'LL TRY

Sounds like good planning!

RM
Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn.~ Delmore Schwartz
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

snailderby wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:01 am It looks like Schwab offers both VBIAX (Vanguard Balanced Index Fund) and VWIAX (Vanguard Wellesley® Income Fund), although there is a transaction fee for new purchases. That gives you several options:

1. Ask if Schwab will let you transfer either or both Vanguard funds to Schwab in kind, like delamer suggested.

2. If not, buy these Vanguard funds for a one-time transaction fee at Schwab.

3. Alternatively, use one of Schwab's target index funds instead.

P.S. If you haven't already done this, it may be worth looking into whether you can get a bonus for transferring your assets to Schwab.
Great. This will be considered strongly. A low cost direct transfer of the same funds? Could they do that? I would like that.
Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn.~ Delmore Schwartz
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by bondsr4me »

Do you have any friends or relatives who use the local Schwab office?
That would be helpful to talk with someone who is using local investment rep.
I would go ahead and make the move to Schwab now while you are both able to do so.

You can transfer in-kind the Vanguard funds you're currently invested in.
Why not ask the Schwab rep that if you move your accounts there, will he/she not charge any future fees if
you want to invest more funds into the Vanguard funds.
Schwab has some very good funds and very good ETF's too.

Being able to go in and sit down with someone face to face can make things go smoother than trying to do
it over the phone or even the internet (as you have already found out with Vanguard).
Just make sure you make it perfectly clear that you will self-manage your accounts.
I would make this very, very clear with the rep BEFORE you move your accounts.

Good luck...wishing you well.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by snailderby »

One additional wrinkle that I just realized: Apparently, Schwab charges an additional $25 "service charge per trade" for "broker-assisted" trades. See https://www.schwab.com/legal/schwab-pri ... -investors. I'm not sure exactly what falls under that category, but that might be worth clarifying before you commit.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by aristotelian »

I have some third party mutual funds with Schwab (T Rowe Price). You should call to confirm for your funds but in my case at least they will sell shares for free. As long as she is not buying new shares, you should be able to transfer in kind and keep the shares in the Vanguard funds if they appeal to her.

One thing I like about Schwab is they have a terrific checking account with free ATM withdrawals worldwide. Thus access to cash will never be a problem even if she does not have a local office. I believe Fidelity also has similar services and would also be worth considering. Particularly if she prefers mutual funds to ETFs, she will have a lot more to choose from at Fidelity.

Schwab also has both Robo and human advisory services that are pretty cheap although there is a hidden fee in that they require a substantial cash allocation that earns low interest.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by delamer »

Sheepdog wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:13 am
snailderby wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:01 am It looks like Schwab offers both VBIAX (Vanguard Balanced Index Fund) and VWIAX (Vanguard Wellesley® Income Fund), although there is a transaction fee for new purchases. That gives you several options:

1. Ask if Schwab will let you transfer either or both Vanguard funds to Schwab in kind, like delamer suggested.

2. If not, buy these Vanguard funds for a one-time transaction fee at Schwab.

3. Alternatively, use one of Schwab's target index funds instead.

P.S. If you haven't already done this, it may be worth looking into whether you can get a bonus for transferring your assets to Schwab.
Great. This will be considered strongly. A low cost direct transfer of the same funds? Could they do that? I would like that.
“In kind” transfers are common. Schwab can initiate the transfer for you, so you don’t have to do anything with Vanguard.

Sometimes a specific investment can’t transfer, but Schwab will be able to tell you that beforehand. All they need is the ticker symbol to tell you if they can move it.

Good luck.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by AZAttorney11 »

We're at Schwab and love it. Fantastic service and the physical offices are a nice touch for a few reasons, including the primary reason mentioned by the OP.

You should be able to do an in-kind transfer from Vanguard to Schwab. Vanguard doesn't charge for transferring out assets (ask me how I know). Schwab only charges a fee to *purchase* certain mutual funds, but as far as I know there is no charge to sell. So you could do an in-kind transfer to Schwab, get a referral bonus of up to $500 from Schwab, and then not pay them anything when you want to sell shares of the mutual funds you transferred from Vanguard.

Even if your wife needed help with a broker to place a trade, who cares if it is $25 or $50 or even $100 each time? Seems awfully cheap for peace of mind and the "hand holding" she is looking for. That's far cheaper than any AUM arrangement.

OP, let me know if you need a referral code to Schwab. I don't get anything for it - only the recipient receives a bonus and Schwab sets it up where you won't know my identify and I won't know yours!
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by ResearchMed »

Sheepdog wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:08 am Also: Does she have any charge cards that are in HER name, and *not* as a supplemental account holder on your main account.
You might want to make sure she has at least two of those in place (different networks such as VISA and MasterCard, or MasterCard and Amex), so those are ready to go. Charge some annually recurring expense on that/those.
NO, SHE DOES NOT HAVE HER OWN...JUST IN HER NAME, GOOD IDEA.
Okay... just to be more clear, as this could be very important... later.

She'll need charge cards *entirely* in her name, with no mention/reference to you. So that's the "name on the card" and also the name (one name, hers) on the application.

And that card should be used, more than the occasional re-occurring fees. (That was a goof on my part, at last at this stage. That's for something else - sorry!)

That is, she needs to start "showing good use of credit", such that her credit limit is started or slowly raised to whatever she might need in the future, plus a buffer.
So if necessary, you could charge some of the household expenses on her card, as those might continue for her anyway.
But you could also buy some of your own stuff, but with her card. Who cares if Mrs. Sheepdog is buying lots of men's hiking boots or that nice 3-piece suit you were eyeing recently (kidding!).
If both of you are in a store, she could just hand her card (or you could, if she's right there) for the purchases.
What you want is to establish a pattern, and keep it going, so that it would cover her needed credit later.
And TWO different cards, lest one get lost or hacked. Then she'll still have the other one for immediate needs, while the other is replaced.

She'd prefer a regular paper checkbook, i'm guessing, if she doesn't want to use computers, so online banking won't matter.
And similarly, she wouldn't want/use a Bogleheads account of her own?

RM
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Doc »

delamer wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:25 am “In kind” transfers are common. Schwab can initiate the transfer for you, so you don’t have to do anything with Vanguard.

Sometimes a specific investment can’t transfer, but Schwab will be able to tell you that beforehand. All they need is the ticker symbol to tell you if they can move it.
It's possible that fractional shares will be converted to cash but otherwise OK.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by iamblessed »

Sounds like schwab would be good for her. She could even keep her vanguard funds. Have her take out a bigger amount when she needs money. Maybe a check for 10k and up. That way the fee would be super small compared to the overall amount. Schwab has checking so she might be able to ask them to move 10k into her checking account. I do see the value of a walk in office in this story.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by iamblessed »

You could put everything in Vanguard LifeStrategy Conservative Growth a 40% stock fund. Maybe you can find a fund like it at schwab? I just know there funds well enough.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by greybus »

If you are going to open an account and transfer funds, definitely get some kind of bonus. Schwab's official bonus offer requires a current customer to give you a referral code, but I'm assuming that's for online account openings. If you call them before you open the account, you can see what is available unofficially. If you have a bonus offer from another major brokerage, you can ask if they will match it, which they sometimes will. They will typically match Etrade since it's another brokerage, but YMMV with matching Merrill Edge or Chase.

If you are moving $280k, then it looks like the following bonuses might apply if Schwab will match:

Schwab referral bonus $500 for $100k https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn ... spect.html
Etrade $300 for < $250k, but $600 for > $250k https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo
Merrill Edge $1000 for > $200k https://www.merrilledge.com/offers/me1000
Chase has a $2000 for $250k promo, but it's a little more involved, you would need to become a Private Client customer, so Schwab may not match them since they are a bank. https://accounts.chase.com/consumer/ban ... vateclient

Ideally you would ask Schwab to match Merrill Edge's offer. You can direct them to the website so they can validate the offer and look at the details.

There are many details in the brokerage bonus thread although it's long... viewtopic.php?t=196884

Also, agree with Schwab Target Index fund if you don't or can't transfer your Vanguard funds in-kind. It's not a perfect fit with your current Vanguard choices but they are low cost (ER 0.08). They are sometimes hard to find on the website and you can get confused with their non-index Target funds so look carefully https://www.schwab.com/mutual-funds/mut ... rget-funds
Last edited by greybus on Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by iamblessed »

radiowave wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:50 am Schwab has some target date retirement funds for 0.08% (8 basis points). See https://www.schwabfunds.com/node/3946 that may be worthwhile. Set and forget and no financial advisor needed. And here is a list of the low cost mutual funds: https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/i ... onesource
Sheepdog your answer is here in one of these .08% funds. You have helped me a lot in the past thanks.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Doc »

iamblessed wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:54 am Sounds like schwab would be good for her. She could even keep her vanguard funds. Have her take out a bigger amount when she needs money. Maybe a check for 10k and up. That way the fee would be super small compared to the overall amount.
IIRC Schwab's fees for fee based mutual funds are only on the buy side.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by jimkinny »

Who do you trust more in the case you die first: Schwab or Vanguard?
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by iamblessed »

Maybe it is worth the $75 fee a few times a year to keep your AA fixed at 40%. Those other funds will reduce stocks over time. If that is the case the LifeStrategy Conservative Growth would be a good choice.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by sport »

Sheepdog,
Do you have any children or other trustworthy relatives that would be able to assist your DW if/when you are unable to do so?
If so, that could eliminate the need to move from Vanguard.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by RetiredAL »

Sheepdog wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:14 am My wife (80) and I (87) have all of our investments at Vanguard (except for I Bonds and SPIAs). A problem is that she will not use a computer....she won't even try. "How will you get to your money needs when I can't?", I constantly ask. Sigh. She has never really worried about that. "I will be fine", she said. However, I think she is finally becoming concerned as she is trying to plan for my coming birthday. "Hey, he won't be here always. How will I get what I need?". She came up to me this weekend to say "Why can't we move our money closer to home.?"
I am similar with my DW. She could, but does not want to learn how. Well, my Son will have to deal with that, either training her, or stepping in.

What I see are missing in your dialog is POA assignments, so when neither you nor your DW can do it, someone else, like your kids, can step in and do it. Financial Institutions are picky and want you to use their POA forms, not the general POA you normally do the estate planning. Processing their standard POA forms is just a simple clerk's task, whereas processing a general POA likely requires legal review.

We have accounts at Schwab and Fidelity. DW and we do have cross-filed POA's to each others accounts. My Son is already POA on my IRA accounts, where 75% of our money is.

Do note that the standard POA at Schwab is not "durable". Their process to do a "durable" POA involves different forms and is more complex.

The standard POA at Fidelity is "durable".

I am POA, Trustee, and/or co-owner for my elderly Dad. With CV-19 staring us in the face this spring, it dawned on me that I was the link-pin in his affairs and if something was to happen to me, issues would arise. So papers were prepared by his lawyer to add my 3 children to the line-of-progression. My son was added as agent to his checking account.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by LilyFleur »

Hi Sheepdog,

Good job on thinking about making things easier for your wife when you go.

There have been some posts here about the difficulty of dealing with Vanguard after the death of a loved one. These were fairly sophisticated investors. I don't think you would wish this difficulty for your wife. Why not move everything to Schwab now?

Please consider calling them up and setting up a meeting with an advisor. The advisor will do whatever is necessary to make the transition easier. (I sat in the guy's office filling out the paperwork to transfer the funds for an Inherited IRA because that was hard for me. I was struggling with grief and it made it harder to focus on things like forms I'd never seen before and how to answer certain questions.) I do not pay an advisor but it helped me a lot to sit with one during my transition to Schwab. We also met with this advisor again to set up my newly graduated son with a brokerage account and a Roth IRA. The plan is that my son will be familiar with the Schwab website so he can help me when I start needing help. (I'm single.) If you don't have children that are able or willing or have the time to help, I don't think it's inappropriate to spend the money to have a trusted advisor for your wife when she becomes a widow.

She will be lost without you.

Warm regards,
Lilyfleur
AZAttorney11
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by AZAttorney11 »

jimkinny wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:21 pm Who do you trust more in the case you die first: Schwab or Vanguard?
Schwab.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by jeffyscott »

For Wellesley, the Schwab website indicates Admiral is only available to institutional clients but maybe a transfer in will be accepted. In any case, at least the investor share class is available to retail clients at Schwab as is Balanced Index Admiral Shares.

Here's the transaction fee pop-up:
Image

You may be able to get the local rep to waive transaction fee for an occasional purchase. There is no fee for reinvesting dividends (or for deminimus purchases, less than $100).
The two greatest enemies of the equity fund investor are expenses and emotions. ― John C. Bogle
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Brandon4454 »

If you want 60% bonds I would just buy 60% of SWAGX and 40% of SWTSX. Keep around a years worth of funds in cash and replenish it with bonds if stocks are doing poorly and replenish it with stocks if they are doing well.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

rkhusky wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:02 am What happens when she can’t walk as well? The physical office won’t matter. Is it within walking distance? Need to drive or get a lift?
It is easy for her to get to by auto and parking is just a few steps away.
Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn.~ Delmore Schwartz
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

sport wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:25 pm Sheepdog,
Do you have any children or other trustworthy relatives that would be able to assist your DW if/when you are unable to do so?
If so, that could eliminate the need to move from Vanguard.
That would be nice, but, no, we don't have any family members within 500 mile.
Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn.~ Delmore Schwartz
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

duplicate
Last edited by Sheepdog on Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Target2019 »

Brandon4454 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:52 pm If you want 60% bonds I would just buy 60% of SWAGX and 40% of SWTSX. Keep around a years worth of funds in cash and replenish it with bonds if stocks are doing poorly and replenish it with stocks if they are doing well.
I would do similar investing at Schwab. Use SWAGX and SWTSX.
The target funds carry about 5% un-invested cash, with higher expense ratios. So I wouldn't go in that direction.

But the Vanguard funds can be transferred. You can ask for bonus or possibly free mutual funds trades. Schwab advisors seem to know the ropes and unerstand they may need to sweeten the deal.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

duplicate
Last edited by Sheepdog on Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn.~ Delmore Schwartz
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Sheepdog »

RetiredAL wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:32 pm
What I see are missing in your dialog is POA assignments, so when neither you nor your DW can do it, someone else, like your kids, can step in and do it. Financial Institutions are picky and want you to use their POA forms, not the general POA you normally do the estate planning. Processing their standard POA forms is just a simple clerk's task, whereas processing a general POA likely requires legal review.

We do have Durable Power of Attorneys as part of our Revocable Trust.
Because you brought this up, I realized that I should review the Trust. I just did and there are some changes which should be done. It has been several years. We no longer have the lawyer who set this up,soI have to find a new one. Sigh.

Thanks for making me think of this.
Woof
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by ResearchMed »

Sheepdog wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:28 am
RetiredAL wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:32 pm
What I see are missing in your dialog is POA assignments, so when neither you nor your DW can do it, someone else, like your kids, can step in and do it. Financial Institutions are picky and want you to use their POA forms, not the general POA you normally do the estate planning. Processing their standard POA forms is just a simple clerk's task, whereas processing a general POA likely requires legal review.

We do have Durable Power of Attorneys as part of our Revocable Trust.
Because you brought this up, I realized that I should review the Trust. I just did and there are some changes which should be done. It has been several years. We no longer have the lawyer who set this up,soI have to find a new one. Sigh.

Thanks for making me think of this.
Woof
In case it helps, Schwab was by far the easiest in terms of Powers of Attorney, etc.
They accepted MIL's Trust docs and DPoA, neither of which used Schwab's own forms, and neither of which were signed/notarized in the presence of anyone from Schwab. In other words, the docs worked the way we though they should.

The only thing was that the Trust docs were lengthy, so they took a copy for review, approved it all, and that was that.

RM
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by RetiredAL »

ResearchMed wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:36 pm
Sheepdog wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:28 am
RetiredAL wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:32 pm
What I see are missing in your dialog is POA assignments, so when neither you nor your DW can do it, someone else, like your kids, can step in and do it. Financial Institutions are picky and want you to use their POA forms, not the general POA you normally do the estate planning. Processing their standard POA forms is just a simple clerk's task, whereas processing a general POA likely requires legal review.

We do have Durable Power of Attorneys as part of our Revocable Trust.
Because you brought this up, I realized that I should review the Trust. I just did and there are some changes which should be done. It has been several years. We no longer have the lawyer who set this up,soI have to find a new one. Sigh.

Thanks for making me think of this.
Woof
In case it helps, Schwab was by far the easiest in terms of Powers of Attorney, etc.
They accepted MIL's Trust docs and DPoA, neither of which used Schwab's own forms, and neither of which were signed/notarized in the presence of anyone from Schwab. In other words, the docs worked the way we though they should.

The only thing was that the Trust docs were lengthy, so they took a copy for review, approved it all, and that was that.

RM
I'm glad to hear that Schwab fairly readily accepted those.

When in the heat of arguing with Wells Fargo Advisors over my POA rights and them screwing up the RMD to my Dad's IRA, Schwab did tell me that they would allow me to open an IRA for him by me as POA so we could tranfer the account, just that it would take a longer. Luckily my Dad improved and I was able to take him to the Schwab Office where he signed Schwab's Account and POA (non-durable) forms. I'll deal with the non-durable issue later, if needed.

I do know Fidelity has a form to submit an external POA, but I did not need it for me and DW. We used their std POA form for the POA x-filings between us.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by RetiredAL »

Sheepdog wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:28 am
RetiredAL wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:32 pm
What I see are missing in your dialog is POA assignments, so when neither you nor your DW can do it, someone else, like your kids, can step in and do it. Financial Institutions are picky and want you to use their POA forms, not the general POA you normally do the estate planning. Processing their standard POA forms is just a simple clerk's task, whereas processing a general POA likely requires legal review.

We do have Durable Power of Attorneys as part of our Revocable Trust.
Because you brought this up, I realized that I should review the Trust. I just did and there are some changes which should be done. It has been several years. We no longer have the lawyer who set this up,soI have to find a new one. Sigh.

Thanks for making me think of this.
Woof
This CV-19 stuff me got thinking about our Trust and POA's too. I was satisfied with the Trust, but wanted to change the POA relating to kids from "certification of non-capable" to immediately granting POA rights. Luckily for me, a single e-mail got things started with our lawyer, she e-mailed updated POA's to us, and I e-mailed back the signed and notarized POA's.

I went through a similar but more expansive remote update with my Dad's Law Office, different actual lawyer as the previous had retired. I have previously met the new lawyer at a Rotary Meeting my Dad attends, so he knew who I was.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by TN_Boy »

Sheepdog wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:14 am My wife (80) and I (87) have all of our investments at Vanguard (except for I Bonds and SPIAs). A problem is that she will not use a computer....she won't even try. "How will you get to your money needs when I can't?", I constantly ask. Sigh. She has never really worried about that. "I will be fine", she said. However, I think she is finally becoming concerned as she is trying to plan for my coming birthday. "Hey, he won't be here always. How will I get what I need?". She came up to me this weekend to say "Why can't we move our money closer to home.?"

Okay, she and I, a year or so ago, called Vanguard and they said she could do ALL transactions by phone and USPS. So, she has her "My voice is my password" set up. That may work for some things, but I (we) don't trust them. There are, too often, too many communication problems with VG representatives, as you know or have heard of. When I die or incapacitated, I can't see her getting fast results and she can't either. "Can't we move everything to a local stock firm? How about our bank's trust operations?" she asked, believing that is the way to go. "No way", I told her. "Don't you remember when we used stock brokers and how much it cost and how little we gained and how they sold us stuff which made them money but not us?." So, I am thinking.......
It really would be so much better for her to be able to have some investments and money available through an office here.....where she could walk in, talk, and ask for help with her investments, and in getting funds when she needs them.. Many people, including Bogleheads, like Schwab. We have a Schwab office here which is close by to our home. Schwab funds have low costs, especially index funds. So, we are considering (planning) to move her rollover and Roth IRAs to them and would keep mine with Vanguard. Her rollover IRA has $50,000 and her Roth IRA has $230,000. We would open a MM account there also. Any money needs beyond our bank checking account can be handled there until my IRAs can be transferred to her. (Our 2000-02 I Bonds, registered in a revocable trust, are also available just by cashing at the bank.)
So, how should this $280,000 be invested at Schwab?. Her investments now are all in Wellesley and Balanced Index, conservative and fruitful. I would like the new ones be as conservative and probably in the 35 to 40% stock percent range. Any advice you may have will be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Woof Woof
Sheepdog,

I had a couple of comments/suggestions/questions.

One poster asked if you had family that could step in and help your spouse with the investments. And you noted that family was 500 miles away. But for managing the investments, that doesn't seem like a problem. If you had a child that you were comfortable giving DPOA to now (or upon your demise), that child could start managing the investments (where managing might be "don't do anything") and if mom had a question, they called the child. If money needed to be transferred from investments to a check-writing account, call the child.

It might be your wife wants to do all this herself, as long as she is able, in which case I withdraw the comment :-). But unless that's the case, I don't see why you couldn't give agent authorization to a child and let them manage vanguard investments remotely. I did that for years for a parent, with vanguard even (though the parent wasn't interested in investments and they were not needed for cash flow at the time). I did stuff online, had the paper statements mailed to the parent.

The other remark is that I'd be thinking on how the person that will be managing the money if your spouse can't do money management anymore gets "triggered." At some point, it's quite possible she'll be unable to confidently manage money and if the ultimate choice of money manager was already monitoring/managing the investments, it's a quicker transition to pick up the rest.

Just a thought. Unless she really really wants to go into a physical building and talk with financial people about her investments, it's not clear to me you need to move the money anywhere, if family can start helping with the investments.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by pshonore »

Another data point: Spouse and I have transferred VWINX (Wellesley) holdings in kind from Vanguard to Fido and Etrade respectively. In both cases it was quick and easy.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by TN_Boy »

pshonore wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:47 am Another data point: Spouse and I have transferred VWINX (Wellesley) holdings in kind from Vanguard to Fido and Etrade respectively. In both cases it was quick and easy.
I should double-check before I type, but it used to be the case for Fidelity that

1) you couldn't transfer admiral shares of vanguard funds (you had to convert to the higher cost classes before transferring) and
2) while dividend reinvestment of the transferred funds was free, each purchase of additional shares of the vanguard funds cost $75

So there were barriers to easy management of vanguard mutual funds at Fidelity.
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by Mike Scott »

A couple of others have also posted about relatives helping etc and proximity is not a major issue. Based on what you say, it seems to me that your wife needs a complete financial manager on a routine basis (family or not) when you are no longer able to do it. Her mobility is less important than her willingness and ability to navigate checkbooks, online accounts, health care, taxes and phone calls etc. You may be underestimating the complexity of what you are doing.
Is there someone you trust to take your place as daily manager?
Is this a situation for a setting up a trust fund of some sort?
What about 100% conversion of investments to SPIA deposited to a local bank savings/checking account for simplicity while you are still able to do it?
Is this a case where paying more for more simplicity is the better solution?

I may be over interpreting your remarks, but your wife sounds like an easy future target/victim of financial fraud.

It has come up in other discussions about the potential need for end of life professional management of routine personal financial services going way beyond what is normally considered investment management. Do these services even exist? What would they look like (and cost) if they did?
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Re: Moving my wife's investments to Schwab?

Post by TN_Boy »

Mike Scott wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:20 am A couple of others have also posted about relatives helping etc and proximity is not a major issue. Based on what you say, it seems to me that your wife needs a complete financial manager on a routine basis (family or not) when you are no longer able to do it. Her mobility is less important than her willingness and ability to navigate checkbooks, online accounts, health care, taxes and phone calls etc. You may be underestimating the complexity of what you are doing.
Is there someone you trust to take your place as daily manager?
Is this a situation for a setting up a trust fund of some sort?
What about 100% conversion of investments to SPIA deposited to a local bank savings/checking account for simplicity while you are still able to do it?
Is this a case where paying more for more simplicity is the better solution?

I may be over interpreting your remarks, but your wife sounds like an easy future target/victim of financial fraud.

It has come up in other discussions about the potential need for end of life professional management of routine personal financial services going way beyond what is normally considered investment management. Do these services even exist? What would they look like (and cost) if they did?
I agree with a lot of this post, except the advice on converting all investments to SPIAs. That can't make any sense without a full understanding of the Sheepdog family finances, which is not the question on the table. I cannot come up with a situation where converting *all* investments to SPIAs would make sense, nor does it really solve the problem of someone being unable to manage their finances (it merely simplifies the income stream a bit, which doesn't solve all the other problems you have when somebody is having trouble managing money).

My SPIA digression aside, your post is kinda where I was going, should (I have no strong opinion either way not knowing the specifics) someone now be groomed to take over some/all of the money management when sheepdog, for whatever reason, cannot? After one of my inlaws died, my wife was given full visibility into the surviving inlaws accounts, and was able to give advice if needed (and it generally wasn't) and in a good position to take over if necessary.
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