Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by FrugalInvestor » Thu May 14, 2020 9:41 am

rkhusky wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:30 am
Wonder what they'll do for the people that can't use a brokerage account due to their jobs in the financial sector?
It's interesting that you bring this up. I've been going around with Vanguard trying to get the beneficiary on my wife's and my joint account changed to our revocable trust or the account retitled into the name of our revocable trust as our attorney has instructed. Vanguard flatly refuses to name the trust as beneficiary and will only retitle the account to the trust if we change over to brokerage account. Both of the reps I've talked to have tried their level best to help but after going up the ladder are blocked from honoring my request. In our conversations they have stated that there are exceptions to Vanguard's policy and have specifically mentioned the financial sector job as one of those. Another is having substantially more invested in the account. So apparently the legacy platform will be maintained for a very limited number of clients.
Have a plan, stay the course, and simplify, and while you're at it, Ignore the Noise!

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by BrandonBogle » Thu May 14, 2020 9:55 am

retiringwhen wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:22 am
BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:50 am
rkhusky wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:44 am
BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:35 am
sport wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:05 am
My understanding for the brokerage account is that you can have dividends reinvested, sent to your settlement fund, or sent to your outside bank account. However, I don't have a brokerage account, so I may not be exactly correct.
Not that last option. My mother lost her automatic path of dividends going to her checking account. Now we have to log in and transfer them manually and often forget to do it on the day it is deposited.
I just checked my taxable account, which is on the old mutual fund platform, and there are 4 options for dividends: Reinvest, Transfer to a bank account, Transfer to a Vanguard fund, and Mail by Check.
Right. The brokerage platform is reinvest in the same fund, or send them to the settlement fund. Period, hard stop. You can then transfer them or get a check from the settlement fund.
This is one of the great errors constantly repeated on BH. Please see that at least 5 people have demonstrated in this thread that it is easily done (just differently than on the old platform).
It is repeated for good reason. That option isn’t available to me. If I try to pick getting a check or sending to my bank account, the holdings are grayed out and cannot be changed. They are only available to check when I am set to reinvest or transfer to settlement.

Image

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Vulcan
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Vulcan » Thu May 14, 2020 9:58 am

bling wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 pm
sigh. once this happens to my account i'm outta there. why would i stay with vanguard when fidelity/schwab have a better offering?
What is their equivalent of VTWAX?
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

nanameg
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by nanameg » Thu May 14, 2020 10:04 am

Silence Dogood wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:29 am
nanameg wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:23 am
Can someone explain why vanguard is not only pushing the platform but pushing ETF’s over mutual funds? If you are a PAS client you can no longer keep mutual funds at some relatively soon future date.. I think September.
I think that's a question only Vanguard can answer.

As someone who prefers mutual funds over ETFs, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that VPAS is choosing to use ETFs over mutual funds. They are conducting the transactions anyway, so what is the downside for you? In fact, an argument could me made that it would be unethical for them to use a higher-cost fund when a lower-cost equivalent fund is available (even if the cost reduction is insignificant).

There have been rumors that Vanguard will invest in ETFs within their all-in-one Target Retirement/LifeStrategy funds. Again, I prefer mutual funds over ETFs - and I'm invested in a Vanguard Target Retirement fund - but if that happens, I would see no reason to complain.

Of course, if you are, for any reason whatsoever, unhappy with VPAS, you have the right to stop using this service.
Yes and I am trying to decide that very question... if PAS is worth it.

The larger question too is are mutual funds going to no longer be offered at Vanguard... or across the industry ... and what, if anything, does that mean for investors.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by BrandonBogle » Thu May 14, 2020 10:06 am

Vulcan wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:58 am
bling wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 pm
sigh. once this happens to my account i'm outta there. why would i stay with vanguard when fidelity/schwab have a better offering?
What is their equivalent of VTWAX?
I don’t know about Fidelity and Schwab, but WellsTrade lets me hold VTWAX. In fact, all my holdings at outside of Vanguard (except my 401k) are in Vanguard funds and ETFs.

retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by retiringwhen » Thu May 14, 2020 10:08 am

BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:55 am
It is repeated for good reason. That option isn’t available to me. If I try to pick getting a check or sending to my bank account, the holdings are grayed out and cannot be changed. They are only available to check when I am set to reinvest or transfer to settlement.

Image
Interesting, I did a test in my accounts and found that the option is available for Mutual Funds, but not ETFs or Common Stocks (I own all three so can test all three equally).

So, you are correct, but I will point out as related to the OP's complaint about mutual fund only accounts; ETFs and Common Stocks are not allowed so this limitation has ho impact on the features gained/lost for a brokerage account transition....

I guess this is really a knock against owning ETFs at Vanguard I suppose :mrgreen: (just trying to start another flame war :wink: , not really!)

So, what brokerages allow you get checks for your ETF and Stock dividends directly?

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by BrandonBogle » Thu May 14, 2020 10:20 am

retiringwhen wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:08 am
Interesting, I did a test in my accounts and found that the option is available for Mutual Funds, but not ETFs or Common Stocks (I own all three so can test all three equally).

So, you are correct, but I will point out as related to the OP's complaint about mutual fund only accounts; ETFs and Common Stocks are not allowed so this limitation has ho impact on the features gained/lost for a brokerage account transition....

I guess this is really a knock against owning ETFs at Vanguard I suppose :mrgreen: (just trying to start another flame war :wink: , not really!)

So, what brokerages allow you get checks for your ETF and Stock dividends directly?
To add insult to injury, they are ETFs because of a Vanguard glitch and they couldn’t/wouldn’t reverse it. Mom had mf account and when moving some stuff from another institution, Vanguard made her open a brokerage account. She later was forged to “upgrade” the old account to a brokerage. Then we wanted to do a MF -> ETF conversion of the Vanguard funds at Wells Fargo. We made the mistake of doing this pulling from Vanguard instead of pushing from WF. Even though the transfer form had the newer brokerage account number on it, they deposited the funds into the older account. She didn’t realize this mistake when she called and ordered the conversion, so everything converted from mf to ETFs vs. just the funds from WF. That’s when I got involved and they wouldn’t reverse the move since, from their point of view, it was two separate transactions and they didn’t make a mistake on the conversion. They split off the necessary shares to the newer brokerage account and we transferred those ETFs back to WF. So now she is stuck with those ETFs in her old account with my taxable gains that wouldn’t be worth paying to sell and repurchase the mutual funds. It was a very aggravating experience and furthered my plan to never have my stuff permanently sitting at VG itself. They are just a conduit for me now to TD Ameritrade and WF.

Meanwhile TD Ameritrade offers (or at least did when they set up my account over a decade ago) to have your external bank account be your settlement account. So my dividends and capital gains go straight to my checking account.

retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by retiringwhen » Thu May 14, 2020 10:30 am

BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:20 am
Meanwhile TD Ameritrade offers (or at least did when they set up my account over a decade ago) to have your external bank account be your settlement account. So my dividends and capital gains go straight to my checking account.
Thanks, that is good information.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by bogledogle87 » Thu May 14, 2020 10:39 am

Can someone ELI5 what is going on here? I've not heard of this prior to stumbling upon this thread. What is the difference between the mutual fund platform and my current brokerage accounts? What is expiring in 2022 and why is it concerning some investors enough to possibly change firms?
VTWAX and chill

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Oicuryy » Thu May 14, 2020 10:42 am

whodidntante wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:55 pm
Maybe if they send a telegram the people who still care about this will get it, too.
That would be me. If they shut down online access to my VGI account I still remember how to put an address on an envelope.

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Oicuryy
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Oicuryy » Thu May 14, 2020 11:14 am

bogledogle87 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:39 am
Can someone ELI5 what is going on here?
Vanguard offers two ways to hold their mutual funds. You can hold them through Vanguard Group Inc. (VGI) or through Vanguard Brokerage Services (VBS). VGI is the transfer agent (among other things) for Vanguard's funds. VBS is a broker.

There are some differences between the two agencies that are important to some people.

Vanguard really wants everyone to switch from VGI to VBS. They have been pressuring people to do that for years. For example, you can no longer open a VGI account online. The email in the opening post is their latest effort. IANAL but I suspect it is illegal for a broker to take control of your mutual funds without your permission. Otherwise VBS or some other broker would have done it long ago.

If you already have a VBS account you are where Vanguard wants you to be and don't need to worry about whatever they are going to do to VGI accounts.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by alex_686 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:34 am

Oicuryy wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:14 am
IANAL but I suspect it is illegal for a broker to take control of your mutual funds without your permission. Otherwise VBS or some other broker would have done it long ago.
What do you mean "take control"?

If you mean a forced conversion from the mutual fund platform to the brokerage platform, then no - they can't do that. The brokerage account would be a wrapper around the mutual fund and you would have to acknowledge certain additional regulatory disclosures.

However, they could shut down the web site and phone lines and impose a $1,000 annual fee on the mutual fund platform.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Oicuryy » Thu May 14, 2020 11:55 am

alex_686 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:34 am
If you mean a forced conversion from the mutual fund platform to the brokerage platform, then no - they can't do that.
Yes, that's what I meant. I would no longer be able to access my shares directly with the transfer agent.
alex_686 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:34 am
However, they could shut down the web site and phone lines and impose a $1,000 annual fee on the mutual fund platform.
Yes, if Vanguard really wants to get rid of me they can make it too painful to stay.

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KyleAAA
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by KyleAAA » Thu May 14, 2020 11:58 am

Well it's about time.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by MadHungarian » Thu May 14, 2020 12:56 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:26 am
MadHungarian wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:15 am
whodidntante wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:55 pm
Maybe if they send a telegram the people who still care about this will get it, too.
Should i tell you that i still use paper checks too?
I use them too. My mortgage coupon book was coffee stained, so I needed a new coaster. :wink:
I tried to find a coupon room at my local bank, but they didn't have one anymore!
Actually, i finally stopped using paper checks too, just this last month, due to COVID hassles. Sigh. The world's most old-fashioned high tech person is slowly caving in. Next thing you know, i'll be trading in all my scrolls for those new-fangled codex books...

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by bling » Thu May 14, 2020 6:04 pm

Vulcan wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:58 am
bling wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 pm
sigh. once this happens to my account i'm outta there. why would i stay with vanguard when fidelity/schwab have a better offering?
What is their equivalent of VTWAX?
buy VT instead? it's 0.02% cheaper too.

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Vulcan
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Vulcan » Fri May 15, 2020 12:22 am

bling wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:04 pm
Vulcan wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:58 am
bling wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 pm
sigh. once this happens to my account i'm outta there. why would i stay with vanguard when fidelity/schwab have a better offering?
What is their equivalent of VTWAX?
buy VT instead? it's 0.02% cheaper too.
viewtopic.php?t=148757#p2223489
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

palanzo
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by palanzo » Fri May 15, 2020 12:32 am

asset_chaos wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:16 pm
If they'd just enable the new platform to automatically redirect dividends, I'd switch today. That's a feature I regularly use, and it doesn't exist on the new platform. That's why for me the new platform is definitely a downgrade, and I won't switch until they force me. Every time the flagship rep brings up switching in a courtesy email, I make the same response, none of the touted benefits are beneficial to me but I use the services eliminated by the switch. Maybe in the next two years vanguard can fix whatever issue(s) prevents the new platform automatically redirecting dividends.
I have asked my representative about this and was told they have no intention of doing this. Specifically I was told it is not a feature of other brokerage platforms and they will not do it.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Independent George » Fri May 15, 2020 12:34 am

rob wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:28 am
.... and for the people who work in certain companies that must have their BROKERAGE activity monitored (mutual fund accounts don't usually need that level of monitoring).... Hard luck and take a capital gain because Vanguard flips to brokerage accounts? Does Vanguard pay the tax?

It's easy to throw around the luddite tag when it's got no personal impact....
I'm not exactly following what the argument here is, but I work for one of the Big Four accounting firms, and our independence monitoring site gets an automated feed from my Vanguard & Schwab brokerage accounts. Granted, I'm not a PPED or anything, but the ones I've talked all have brokerage accounts and never mentioned any issues with monitoring.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by jeffyscott » Fri May 15, 2020 6:10 am

alex_686 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:34 am
If you mean a forced conversion from the mutual fund platform to the brokerage platform, then no - they can't do that. The brokerage account would be a wrapper around the mutual fund and you would have to acknowledge certain additional regulatory disclosures.

However, they could shut down the web site and phone lines and impose a $1,000 annual fee on the mutual fund platform.
According to the OP, they said: We'll continue to support clients on this old platform until it's retired from use in 2022 or earlier.

They may be overstating their intent, but "retired from use" would seem to mean it will no longer exist, not just be less convenient or more expensive to use. Could they liquidate accounts that don't convert and send the cash to the account holder?

Unless the OP had asked a question about the MF platform, it seems odd that no one else has posted that they received the same email.

Another post has indicated that they have been told that old platform will not actually be eliminated:
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:41 am
In our conversations they have stated that there are exceptions to Vanguard's policy and have specifically mentioned the financial sector job as one of those. Another is having substantially more invested in the account. So apparently the legacy platform will be maintained for a very limited number of clients.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by rkhusky » Fri May 15, 2020 7:08 am

palanzo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:32 am
asset_chaos wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:16 pm
If they'd just enable the new platform to automatically redirect dividends, I'd switch today. That's a feature I regularly use, and it doesn't exist on the new platform. That's why for me the new platform is definitely a downgrade, and I won't switch until they force me. Every time the flagship rep brings up switching in a courtesy email, I make the same response, none of the touted benefits are beneficial to me but I use the services eliminated by the switch. Maybe in the next two years vanguard can fix whatever issue(s) prevents the new platform automatically redirecting dividends.
I have asked my representative about this and was told they have no intention of doing this. Specifically I was told it is not a feature of other brokerage platforms and they will not do it.
Foolish decision. They already do it on the old platform, why not just port it over to the new and limit the ability to Vanguard mutual funds. Same with some of the other downgrades of moving to the brokerage platform.

bling
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by bling » Fri May 15, 2020 8:09 am

Vulcan wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:22 am
bling wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:04 pm
Vulcan wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:58 am
bling wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 pm
sigh. once this happens to my account i'm outta there. why would i stay with vanguard when fidelity/schwab have a better offering?
What is their equivalent of VTWAX?
buy VT instead? it's 0.02% cheaper too.
viewtopic.php?t=148757#p2223489
wow, all of that is self-inflicted. divide your money by the current share price and enter that in. execute at market price (why are you buying illiquid ETFs for you to be concerned about spreads??). done.

i used to obsess over the "cash turds" so i would place a trade without any cash in my account. my broker lets you do this, even without a margin account. before the trade settles, i transfer the exact amount of money in so the balance was $0. after a couple times doing this i realized how ridiculous it was so now i just leave the cash turds in my brokerage account instead of leaving the exact same amount of cash turds in my checkings account.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am

Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.

retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by retiringwhen » Fri May 15, 2020 8:59 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
I would guess 90% of them are using it to deposit dividends in a money market besides Federal MM (settlement account). Fidelity and Schwab both provide more flexibility in this area, but their ERs are much higher and the net benefit of switching is probably negative from a cost perspective.

Just about any other pattern (for example taking stock fund dividends and placing in a Bond fund) can be addressed via different thought patterns.

The problem is (and is with all system modernization/migrations) is that making that thought pattern change is difficult and places a burden on a previously happy customer.

Heck I have been using Quicken for 25 years and I literally think in Quicken-speak when analyzing and thinking about my cash-flow or budget. I can't use other tools because they don't think that way and I am not willing to retrain. When Quicken dies as a product, I am going to stop budgeting! :wink:

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Oicuryy
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Oicuryy » Fri May 15, 2020 9:03 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:10 am
According to the OP, they said: We'll continue to support clients on this old platform until it's retired from use in 2022 or earlier.

They may be overstating their intent, but "retired from use" would seem to mean it will no longer exist, not just be less convenient or more expensive to use. Could they liquidate accounts that don't convert and send the cash to the account holder?
Has Vanguard ever defined "platform"?

Every year when the new prospectus comes out I check to see if it still says this.
Vanguard fund shares can be held directly with Vanguard or indirectly through an intermediary, such as a bank, a broker, or an investment advisor.
As long as it says "directly with Vanguard" I have no reason to switch to a broker. They will have to provide some way to do transactions "directly with Vanguard".

Ron
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by jebmke » Fri May 15, 2020 9:15 am

retiringwhen wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:59 am
Heck I have been using Quicken for 25 years and I literally think in Quicken-speak when analyzing and thinking about my cash-flow or budget. I can't use other tools because they don't think that way and I am not willing to retrain. When Quicken dies as a product, I am going to stop budgeting!
I know what you mean about changing thought pattern. I quite budgeting fairly early in life. I did it for a couple of years when we first got married but then I concluded that I was thinking about the whole thing backwards. Instead of budgeting our spending I budgeted our savings. All the detail in a spending budget became mostly irrelevant because it wasn't affecting our behavior.

I still use Quicken to keep track of the basis in our taxable account but I could probably port that to a spreadsheet if I weren't so lazy.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by WS1 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:22 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
Personal example

I hold a treasury and a corporate bond fund. I don’t wish to add to my treasury holding so I have those monthly coupon payments automatically sent to the corporate bond fund.

P.S. Yes I know I could just hold the Investment grade fund instead, but I don’t want 70% in treasuries

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by sport » Fri May 15, 2020 9:28 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
Vanguard refers to the brokerage platform as an "upgrade" from the mutual fund platform. I would think that most people would think an "upgrade" would imply enhanced features compared to an old system. Making an "upgrade" to a system with fewer features does not seem to make sense. It seems the "upgrade is really a "downgrade". The lack of YTD statements is another downgraded feature.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by pokebowl » Fri May 15, 2020 9:53 am

Vulcan wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:58 am
bling wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 pm
sigh. once this happens to my account i'm outta there. why would i stay with vanguard when fidelity/schwab have a better offering?
What is their equivalent of VTWAX?
Buying VT via fractional shares at Fidelity commission free. Perhaps depending when I buy it, may even get a better intraday price discount over a VTWAX purchase. :beer

Lyrrad
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Lyrrad » Fri May 15, 2020 9:59 am

retiringwhen wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:08 am
BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:55 am
It is repeated for good reason. That option isn’t available to me. If I try to pick getting a check or sending to my bank account, the holdings are grayed out and cannot be changed. They are only available to check when I am set to reinvest or transfer to settlement.
[removed image]
Interesting, I did a test in my accounts and found that the option is available for Mutual Funds, but not ETFs or Common Stocks (I own all three so can test all three equally).
My understanding is that the ETF reinvestment setting can be changed one day after the last trade settles for the ETF. I see the following text above the holding level elections “You can't change your dividend and capital gains elections on holdings that currently have unsettled trades. You must wait until the day after settlement in order to make election changes.” One can also set ETFs to automatically reinvest by default on an account level, though this may not affect existing holdings.


One benefit of the brokerage account for myself, is that the more lightly traded Vanguard ETFs get very good execution. I’m consistently receiving prices exactly in the middle of the bid/ask spread when I place marketable limit orders, even when the spread is about 20 cents, and the ETF daily volume is in the tens of thousands.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by palanzo » Fri May 15, 2020 11:12 am

rkhusky wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:08 am
palanzo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:32 am
asset_chaos wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:16 pm
If they'd just enable the new platform to automatically redirect dividends, I'd switch today. That's a feature I regularly use, and it doesn't exist on the new platform. That's why for me the new platform is definitely a downgrade, and I won't switch until they force me. Every time the flagship rep brings up switching in a courtesy email, I make the same response, none of the touted benefits are beneficial to me but I use the services eliminated by the switch. Maybe in the next two years vanguard can fix whatever issue(s) prevents the new platform automatically redirecting dividends.
I have asked my representative about this and was told they have no intention of doing this. Specifically I was told it is not a feature of other brokerage platforms and they will not do it.
Foolish decision. They already do it on the old platform, why not just port it over to the new and limit the ability to Vanguard mutual funds. Same with some of the other downgrades of moving to the brokerage platform.
Agreed. Ask Vanguard. I'm not happy either.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by palanzo » Fri May 15, 2020 11:15 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
Since it is so minor and so convenient to so many, why not add it to the new platform? I wish Vanguard would answer that question. Instead they act as if they know best and will do what they want and not listen to the customer. Businesses who do that in other areas don't do so well.

KyleAAA
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by KyleAAA » Fri May 15, 2020 12:02 pm

rob wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:28 am
MadHungarian wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:15 am
whodidntante wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:55 pm
Maybe if they send a telegram the people who still care about this will get it, too.
Should i tell you that i still use paper checks too?
.... and for the people who work in certain companies that must have their BROKERAGE activity monitored (mutual fund accounts don't usually need that level of monitoring).... Hard luck and take a capital gain because Vanguard flips to brokerage accounts? Does Vanguard pay the tax?

It's easy to throw around the luddite tag when it's got no personal impact....
Why would you need to take a capital gain? Converting to a brokerage account isn't a taxable event, nor is transferring your holdings in-kind to a different broker if need be.

nalor511
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by nalor511 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:18 pm

palanzo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:15 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
Since it is so minor and so convenient to so many, why not add it to the new platform? I wish Vanguard would answer that question. Instead they act as if they know best and will do what they want and not listen to the customer. Businesses who do that in other areas don't do so well.
If I'm reading correctly, it's not available in the old platform either (DRIP reinvestment for ETFs), because ETFs weren't allowed on the old platform. And DRIP redirection is available (per user above) in the new platform for MFs, right now. So if it's something you require, when you port your account over, stick with MFs and do not switch to ETFs, and it seems like problem solved.

I.e. they did not remove any features, they actually added a new investment type (ETF) that does not support this feature, but if you stick with MFs you still get DRIP redirection in the new platform.

Yes?

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by rkhusky » Fri May 15, 2020 12:24 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
It’s minor and I can live without it. But why should I have to? Vanguard has the code to do it, why not implement it. The same with full end of year statements. Vanguard produces them for mutual fund accounts, why not for brokerage?

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by KyleAAA » Fri May 15, 2020 12:28 pm

palanzo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:15 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
Since it is so minor and so convenient to so many, why not add it to the new platform? I wish Vanguard would answer that question. Instead they act as if they know best and will do what they want and not listen to the customer. Businesses who do that in other areas don't do so well.
How minor the feature may be to end users is completely disconnected to how difficult or expensive it would be to implement. If it's not something the competition does, there's no real incentive for Vanguard to spend any money building it. To the "not listen to the customer" point, just because a couple of people complain about it doesn't mean a significant number of people care. Building features for a noisy 0.5% of the customer base is no way to build a profitable business.

sport
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by sport » Fri May 15, 2020 1:08 pm

rkhusky wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:24 pm
The same with full end of year statements. Vanguard produces them for mutual fund accounts, why not for brokerage?
I have a mutual fund account with a connected brokerage account. The YTD statement has YTD mutual fund data, but only the last month brokerage data. So, I get a statement that says YTD on it, but it is only a partial YTD statement. It seems strange that Vanguard has this information, but is stingy about putting it into an existing statement.

palanzo
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by palanzo » Fri May 15, 2020 1:09 pm

rkhusky wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:24 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
It’s minor and I can live without it. But why should I have to? Vanguard has the code to do it, why not implement it. The same with full end of year statements. Vanguard produces them for mutual fund accounts, why not for brokerage?
+1000

Exactly. Vanguard over the years has become just another big faceless bureaucratic company.

Even my representative admitted to me that she herself does not like the lack of full end of year statements and that many customers want it.
Last edited by palanzo on Fri May 15, 2020 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

palanzo
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by palanzo » Fri May 15, 2020 1:10 pm

KyleAAA wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:28 pm
palanzo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:15 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Why is it so important to some long-time Vanguard customers to be able to automatically redirect the dividends of one fund into a different fund? Seems like a minor feature to me in the grand scheme of things.
Since it is so minor and so convenient to so many, why not add it to the new platform? I wish Vanguard would answer that question. Instead they act as if they know best and will do what they want and not listen to the customer. Businesses who do that in other areas don't do so well.
How minor the feature may be to end users is completely disconnected to how difficult or expensive it would be to implement. If it's not something the competition does, there's no real incentive for Vanguard to spend any money building it. To the "not listen to the customer" point, just because a couple of people complain about it doesn't mean a significant number of people care. Building features for a noisy 0.5% of the customer base is no way to build a profitable business.
Do you have the survey that showed it was 0.5%?

csmath
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by csmath » Fri May 15, 2020 1:14 pm

I'm going to expose my ignorance on this topic.

My DW and I are still on the OG platform. In it, we have:
  • A joint taxable brokerage (all ETF's)
  • DW ROTH/IRA (all MF's)
  • My ROTH/IRA (all MF's)
So on the OG platform I can have/add ETF's and MF's. What will change if I transition the account?
  1. Can we add / still invest in MF's using the brokerage platform?
  2. Will anything change with our ROTH/IRA accounts at all?
  3. Do we gain or lose access to ANY funds whether they are ETF or MF form?
  4. Ignoring how information is accessed and the platform interface, what fundamentally changes?
FWIW I was told over a year ago on the phone by a Vanguard rep that they can't actually make people change and that while they are pushing people to transition there are reasons why they can't completely get rid of the old style accounts. In the end they agreed to remove the prompts for an account transition and that there was no real reason for me to change anything. I haven't looked back since the phone call. Also, the transition prompts went away... until today.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by TropikThunder » Fri May 15, 2020 1:22 pm

nalor511 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:18 pm
If I'm reading correctly, it's not available in the old platform either (DRIP reinvestment for ETFs), because ETFs weren't allowed on the old platform. And DRIP redirection is available (per user above) in the new platform for MFs, right now. So if it's something you require, when you port your account over, stick with MFs and do not switch to ETFs, and it seems like problem solved.

I.e. they did not remove any features, they actually added a new investment type (ETF) that does not support this feature, but if you stick with MFs you still get DRIP redirection in the new platform.

Yes?
No. There are two aspects, one related to account type and the other related to fund type.

On the older mutual fund platform, you can send dividends back to the fund of origin (DRIP), to a different fund (redirect), to the settlement fund, to your linked bank account, or to you by check. Note this is for mutual funds only, since you cannot hold ETF’s on the older platform.

On the newer brokerage platform, you can send dividends back to the fund of origin (DRIP), or to the settlement fund for all holdings (mutual fund, ETF, individual stocks, etc). For mutual funds (but not for ETF’s) you can also send them to your linked bank account or to you by check. None of the holdings can have their dividends redirected to another fund (that option doesn’t even exist on the drop down list on the brokerage platform). So even if you only hold mutual funds, switching to the brokerage platform removes a feature (redirect to different fund).

csmath
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by csmath » Fri May 15, 2020 1:25 pm

TropikThunder wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:22 pm
since you cannot hold ETF’s on the older platform.
This confuses me greatly. We own ETF's and I never transitioned to the new platform.

TropikThunder
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by TropikThunder » Fri May 15, 2020 1:29 pm

csmath wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:25 pm
TropikThunder wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:22 pm
since you cannot hold ETF’s on the older platform.
This confuses me greatly. We own ETF's and I never transitioned to the new platform.
Your joint taxable account is on the new platform (“brokerage”). As a test, see if you can purchase an ETF in your IRA (obviously don’t submit anything). I’ve never had one of the old platform accounts, so I don’t know what the interface looks like but everyone who has posted has made the similar comment re: not being able to buy ETF’s on the old platform.

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by asif408 » Fri May 15, 2020 1:30 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:55 pm
Maybe if they send a telegram the people who still care about this will get it, too.
Sorry I missed the telegram, I was on my horse and buggy trying the get to message out.

palanzo
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by palanzo » Fri May 15, 2020 1:31 pm

asif408 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:30 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:55 pm
Maybe if they send a telegram the people who still care about this will get it, too.
Sorry I missed the telegram, I was on my horse and buggy trying the get to message out.
Horses also have to stay at stable :mrgreen:

nalor511
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by nalor511 » Fri May 15, 2020 1:44 pm

TropikThunder wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:22 pm
nalor511 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:18 pm
If I'm reading correctly, it's not available in the old platform either (DRIP reinvestment for ETFs), because ETFs weren't allowed on the old platform. And DRIP redirection is available (per user above) in the new platform for MFs, right now. So if it's something you require, when you port your account over, stick with MFs and do not switch to ETFs, and it seems like problem solved.

I.e. they did not remove any features, they actually added a new investment type (ETF) that does not support this feature, but if you stick with MFs you still get DRIP redirection in the new platform.

Yes?
No. There are two aspects, one related to account type and the other related to fund type.

On the older mutual fund platform, you can send dividends back to the fund of origin (DRIP), to a different fund (redirect), to the settlement fund, to your linked bank account, or to you by check. Note this is for mutual funds only, since you cannot hold ETF’s on the older platform.

On the newer brokerage platform, you can send dividends back to the fund of origin (DRIP), or to the settlement fund for all holdings (mutual fund, ETF, individual stocks, etc). For mutual funds (but not for ETF’s) you can also send them to your linked bank account or to you by check. None of the holdings can have their dividends redirected to another fund (that option doesn’t even exist on the drop down list on the brokerage platform). So even if you only hold mutual funds, switching to the brokerage platform removes a feature (redirect to different fund).
Thank you for this explanation, I currently use the MF->other.MF dividend redirection, so I would indeed lose functionality. Confirms I should stick with the old platform, thanks again for all the details

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Kookaburra » Fri May 15, 2020 1:53 pm

Does this expiration / need to “switch over” apply to all account types held at Vanguard?

I recently switched my taxable mutual fund account to the brokerage platform. But I didn’t change my Roth (which only holds mutual funds), nor have I received any messages or prompts to do so. Will I need to?

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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by ruud » Fri May 15, 2020 2:11 pm

csmath wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:14 pm
I'm going to expose my ignorance on this topic.

My DW and I are still on the OG platform. In it, we have:
  • A joint taxable brokerage (all ETF's)
A brokerage account is the new platform that Vanguard wants everyone to transition to. You're already on it (at least for this account). What you call "OG platform" is mutual-fund only, no brokerage or ETFs.
.

csmath
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by csmath » Fri May 15, 2020 2:30 pm

ruud wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:11 pm
csmath wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:14 pm
I'm going to expose my ignorance on this topic.

My DW and I are still on the OG platform. In it, we have:
  • A joint taxable brokerage (all ETF's)
A brokerage account is the new platform that Vanguard wants everyone to transition to. You're already on it (at least for this account). What you call "OG platform" is mutual-fund only, no brokerage or ETFs.
So we are on both platforms at the same time with the same login. If we transition our ROTH/IRA's to the new brokerage platform:
  1. Can we add / still invest in MF's using the brokerage platform?
  2. Will anything change with our ROTH/IRA accounts at all?
  3. Do we gain or lose access to ANY funds whether they are ETF or MF form?
  4. Ignoring how information is accessed and the platform interface, what fundamentally changes?

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Kevin M
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Re: Vanguard Mutual Fund Platform EOL

Post by Kevin M » Fri May 15, 2020 2:36 pm

TropikThunder wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:29 pm
csmath wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:25 pm
TropikThunder wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:22 pm
since you cannot hold ETF’s on the older platform.
This confuses me greatly. We own ETF's and I never transitioned to the new platform.
Your joint taxable account is on the new platform (“brokerage”). As a test, see if you can purchase an ETF in your IRA (obviously don’t submit anything). I’ve never had one of the old platform accounts, so I don’t know what the interface looks like but everyone who has posted has made the similar comment re: not being able to buy ETF’s on the old platform.
This isn't exactly correct.

On the old platform a brokerage account was "linked" to a mutual fund account, with a money market fund in the mutual fund account serving as the settlement or sweep fund for the brokerage account. You would buy stocks, ETFs and other brokerage products in the brokerage account, and mutual funds in the MF account.

On the new platform this link is severed, the brokerage account has its own settlement fund, and of course you can also hold mutual funds in the new platform brokerage account.

On the old platform, you could open a mutual-fund only account, which you can't do on the new platform. On the old platform, when you opened a brokerage account, a MF account was opened too (for the settlement fund), so you could buy either brokered products or mutual funds after opening a brokerage account on the old platform (same end result as opening a brokerage account on the new platform).

I'm surprised to hear that anyone still has a brokerage account on the old platform. As recall, all of my brokerage accounts and those for which I'm an agent were upgraded to the new platform, whether or not I (or the owner) agreed to it, while the MF funds were left on the old platform unless I initiated an upgrade. This severed the link between them.

I still have one MF account on the old platform. It's a revocable trust account, and in the past it required a paper form to upgrade, so I didn't bother. However, now when I click the first few links, it appears that I might be able to upgrade it online.

I also have a brokerage account owned by the same trust, and as I recall, this originally was on the old platform (linked to the MF account via the settlement fund), but now it's a standalone account on the new platform (with its own settlement fund). I'm pretty sure Vanguard upgraded this account automatically, since if I had done it, both the MF and brokerage account would have been upgraded.

Kevin
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