Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Topic Author
JustinR
Posts: 1305
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:43 pm

Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by JustinR » Fri May 08, 2020 9:19 pm

Now that people have experienced WFH, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

While not every company will do WFH after the pandemic, many will probably offer part time or full time WFH arrangements. Workers will demand it and companies will offer it to be competitive.

This could mean that companies need less space...maybe even no office space at all.

Since people already have a place to live, this lost money isn't transferred over to residential real estate, and real estate money will actually shrink.

What do you think?
Last edited by JustinR on Sat May 09, 2020 5:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

runner3081
Posts: 3224
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by runner3081 » Fri May 08, 2020 9:27 pm

Destroy it? I highly doubt it.

Will life be different following this? For a few years, until everyone forgets.

User avatar
cos
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:34 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by cos » Fri May 08, 2020 9:28 pm

Considering there exist use cases for commercial real estate beyond office work, I'd imagine that a cultural shift toward working from home wouldn't destroy the commercial real estate market but rather just slow it down.

oldfort
Posts: 1066
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by oldfort » Sat May 09, 2020 12:08 am

Another poster said this was such an unusual time, parents trying to homeschool their kids and much of the economy shutdown, it will be difficult for companies to draw lessons on how well WFH did or didn't work.

Iridium
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Iridium » Sat May 09, 2020 1:53 am

I wonder how successful WFH is actually going. Most of my colleagues complain about it (and I agree with them, it is a pain). I have even heard folks trying to contrive excuses to have to go in (we are considered essential, so our offices aren't closed, but everyone who can WFH is required to do so). Of course, part of the reason I chose and continue to work for my employer is how nice the offices are. Any company that finds that its employees are more productive at home than at a space whose entire purpose is productivity ought to be asking some hard questions of its facilities department.

stocknoob4111
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by stocknoob4111 » Sat May 09, 2020 3:34 am

highly doubt it... I surely don't want a permanent work from home situation, I enjoy going into work and interacting with the team in person rather than virtually. I do think it's going to lead employers who were hesitant to allow remote work to now be more flexible though.. ideally I like working from home once a week bit I already had this flexibility prior to this crisis.

mancich
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:05 pm

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by mancich » Sat May 09, 2020 4:29 am

I will take the other viewpoint. Being an introvert and someone who has a 50 minute commute each way, I like working from home. I am more productive now since I don't have people constantly stopping by my office to chat, I save almost 2 hours a day of commuting, and am spending almost nothing on gas. I'm very self-disciplined and am fine if I never go back in the office again for my few remaining years of work.

User avatar
market timer
Posts: 6302
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:42 am

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by market timer » Sat May 09, 2020 4:34 am

I am very much enjoying work-from-home. When I'm eventually asked to return to the office, I'm going to propose a pay cut in exchange for permanent WFH flexibility. If this request is not accepted, I might just quit.

onourway
Posts: 2495
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by onourway » Sat May 09, 2020 4:59 am

Pre-pandemic I would have said I was a person who really liked going into the office. I had a nice space, a low stress environment where I get along with everyone and am actually good friends with most of them. I like the office chit chat for the most part. However, I have found I am really enjoying WFH far more than I would have ever imagined. Even with kids and family distractions, I am just as productive. I have no doubt I would be more productive during normal times if I was here on my own. My “commute” is about 10 minutes, yet I feel like I have so much more time in my day and none of the stress of constantly running around. I will be pushing for a WFH schedule when this is over - certainly at least a couple of days a week, and if the significant pay raise I was on the verge of receiving just before the pandemic doesn’t pan out, I may insist on full time WFH until it does.

It should be noted that it won’t take much of a shift in the number of office workers to have substantial impact on the real estate market. If companies cut office space by just 10 or 20%, yet that is enough to tip a given market from a shortage to a surplus, prices will fall substantially.

kjsammy
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:19 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by kjsammy » Sat May 09, 2020 5:20 am

This was discussed recently in an interview on a local program. At 1:25 the interview begins with Robert Pozen from the MIT Sloan School of Management, who is also author of the book ‘Extreme Productivity.’

https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/20 ... irus-world

User avatar
CyclingDuo
Posts: 3294
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by CyclingDuo » Sat May 09, 2020 5:55 am

JustinR wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:19 pm
What do you think?
We might all hang ourselves first if we don't get back to the office. :shock:

I am Zoomed out and Cisco Webexed out...
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

t00sl0w
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:48 am
Location: Florida

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by t00sl0w » Sat May 09, 2020 6:17 am

I dont think it will destroy it but instead just slow it down and possibly change the usage of some current commercial real estate.

I for one love WFH and hope that my bureau lets us continue doing this. I work in software development with sys admin stuff on the side so there is really no reason at all for me to have to go into a physical building. All my meetings, collaboration, everything can be and has been, done remotely. Im also way more productive because my moral is higher, Im in an environment I like, etc. My wife already worked remote/travels so we have people that watch our kids so that is no worry there.

We have plenty of people in my bureau though with the 1900s assembly line mentality that make them think if they dont see people then no work must be getting done, so fighting that will be challenging.

I am thankful that through all of this we were deemed essential so none of us were affecting by job loss or furloughs.

Foredeck
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:13 am
Location: U.S.

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Foredeck » Sat May 09, 2020 6:39 am

t00sl0w wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 6:17 am
I dont think it will destroy it but instead just slow it down and possibly change the usage of some current commercial real estate.

I for one love WFH and hope that my bureau lets us continue doing this. I work in software development with sys admin stuff on the side so there is really no reason at all for me to have to go into a physical building. All my meetings, collaboration, everything can be and has been, done remotely. Im also way more productive because my moral is higher, Im in an environment I like, etc. My wife already worked remote/travels so we have people that watch our kids so that is no worry there.

We have plenty of people in my bureau though with the 1900s assembly line mentality that make them think if they dont see people then no work must be getting done, so fighting that will be challenging.

I am thankful that through all of this we were deemed essential so none of us were affecting by job loss or furloughs.

I'm in IT as well.

I would much rather work from home. Everything that I need to do for my job, can be done virtually. At home I'm much more focused and productive. I also really like not having to commute and sitting in traffic. My preference for any future role I take would have a WFH option.

I would consider going to a nearby co-work space. There are a couple in my area that are blocks away. However as of now, I'd rather work from home.

Sic Vis Pacem
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Sic Vis Pacem » Sat May 09, 2020 6:56 am

No idea.

A small anecdote. My 30-story office building is really struggling with, of all things, the elevators. There is one bank that serves floors 1-20, and another for floors 20-30. Elevator cabs are sized that you could probably get two people in them at a time with six feet between them, but no more. Six elevators per bank. We have 7 floors for my work, and just getting everyone in would take hours. And we would need to coordinate with the businesses on the remaining floors.

And that doesn't even begin to address bathrooms...or the cubical arrangements...or the coffee/kitchenette areas...

My poorly developed early morning point? As for now, it seems we are going to need more space per person, at least in the short run. Whether employers want to pay for more space per person, the point of your question?

No idea.

User avatar
firebirdparts
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by firebirdparts » Sat May 09, 2020 7:10 am

Companies were already well aware of the benefits and penalties of working from home. The more interesting question is where people will want to live if a larger percentage work from home and/or perhaps we have a covid-19 season every year as well as flu season. Since population is no longer rising, the real estate market is affected by what you might call "migration" rather than organic growth, and the winners and losers are already picked out by various factors, given that there is a megatrend of mega-urbanization. As you get more and more of your needs met online and/or electronically, and more of your stuff delivered, you would think that could have an effect on where you want to be. Commercial real estate is already being dramatically affected by where people want to be, I think. What I don't think is that where people want to be is smart or "the right answer". I think at some point some of the winners will be turned into losers, and I think the megatrend itself is in some danger.
A fool and your money are soon partners

User avatar
ClevrChico
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by ClevrChico » Sat May 09, 2020 7:33 am

It likely won't be destroyed, but it will certainly change.

Transportation will also change with reduced commutes for a lot of us. (My car may practically last forever.)

Childcare needs will be reduced too. I can just pick up the kids from school instead of paying for after school programs.

If I spend so much time at home, maybe it's time I upgrade my house? :-)

Allan
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Allan » Sat May 09, 2020 7:41 am

Any studies or analyses showing the efficiency of employees working from home versus an office?

whereskyle
Posts: 897
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:29 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by whereskyle » Sat May 09, 2020 7:46 am

The recent growth engine of the commercial real estate market has been data centers. Working from home will not adversely impact that growth. It might even foster it.
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle

Beehave
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Beehave » Sat May 09, 2020 8:21 am

I suspect some of the bloom will come off of the WFH rose.

Increasing numbers of people will fall into bad habits over time (one extreme or the other - - for some overwork because it becomes omnipresent and for others underwork because distractions become the norm). As more workers fall into one of these camps, morale will go down and dissension will increase and office work will come to be valued again.

Moreover, my guess is that it will prove to be a major management / HR boner to confuse how things work right now when their experienced, cohesive teams pull together in their new WFH roles to react to an emergency with what will likely happen over time when the emergency is over and when turnover among workers and management becomes part of the equation. To think that a dispersed WFH workforce will cohesively integrate new team members and managers and complex change across silos of responsibility and expertise in the same way as will happen in-person is, to my thinking, something of a leap.
Last edited by Beehave on Sat May 09, 2020 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

bgf
Posts: 1534
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:35 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by bgf » Sat May 09, 2020 8:25 am

I imagine in areas with horrible commutes it will become a mainstay. I live 5 minutes from my office and prefer to work there. If I lived 45 minutes away, I'd prefer to WFH.

I think our office is going to have far more remote work after this.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

User avatar
tvubpwcisla
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:09 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by tvubpwcisla » Sat May 09, 2020 8:27 am

A good question to ask is, "What will the world look like when a cure for the virus is announced?"

:moneybag
Stay invested my friends.

LRDave
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 7:46 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by LRDave » Sat May 09, 2020 8:30 am

I assume "commercial real estate" is large and complex beast, so I'd guess it is hard to say overall. But I do think Class A office space rates are going to get whacked. High-priced prestige offices in HCOL downtowns are going to become the buggy whips of the 2020s.

investingdad
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by investingdad » Sat May 09, 2020 8:32 am

I'm in the camp that this will be largely forgotten in a few years, like everything.

My group is already flexible on WFH. But permanent one or two days of home would not be bad.

rascott
Posts: 2112
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:53 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by rascott » Sat May 09, 2020 8:50 am

Full time WFH may be fine for seasoned career people that already have a personal "brand" established.... but think it could be a big hindrance for younger workers who really need the networking aspect that falls apart in the WFH environment.

I think the trends of WFH will continue... and accelerate. But don't foresee it being a golden solution.

bling
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by bling » Sat May 09, 2020 9:04 am

i have a large REIT allocation in my portfolio and every other day i'm debating whether to cut back or eliminate it...

nonetheless, all of this information should already be priced in. so the real question is whether the future expected return will be any different than historical performance. there may be less need for office space in the future, but presumably other types of real estate would come in to replace it.

Hockey10
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:20 pm
Location: Philadelphia suburbs

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Hockey10 » Sat May 09, 2020 9:18 am

What about the cybersecurity aspect of this? I would think that from the corporate IT security perspective, having most of the workers in the office would be more secure than having them scattered at home all over the place. I am not a tech expert, so maybe I am wrong, but just throwing this out there as something that would favor working from the office.

stoptothink
Posts: 7870
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 09, 2020 9:25 am

rascott wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:50 am
Full time WFH may be fine for seasoned career people that already have a personal "brand" established.... but think it could be a big hindrance for younger workers who really need the networking aspect that falls apart in the WFH environment.

I think the trends of WFH will continue... and accelerate. But don't foresee it being a golden solution.
I am really enjoying working from home, but the c-suite has asked all "upper level managers/directors" to return to the office starting on the 18th. For the time being it will be no different, just all my TEAMs video chats will now be from my office (with a mask on, as it is required). My boss wants everybody back as soon as we hit "yellow" (so, maybe July?), regardless of how productive they have been from home. My wife is in a similar position - there is literally zero benefit to her physically being in the office - but their CFO is asking everybody to return soon. I thought (hoped) it may loosen up our employers' strict no-WFH policies, but that doesn't seem to be the case in our situation. I guess there has been enough people totally unproductive during this period that everybody is losing this possible benefit (and having seen some of this, I don't necessarily blame the execs).

bling
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by bling » Sat May 09, 2020 9:44 am

Hockey10 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:18 am
What about the cybersecurity aspect of this? I would think that from the corporate IT security perspective, having most of the workers in the office would be more secure than having them scattered at home all over the place. I am not a tech expert, so maybe I am wrong, but just throwing this out there as something that would favor working from the office.
how worried are you when you make a trade with your own money sitting on your couch?

TIAX
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by TIAX » Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am

First, not everyone has a large house with an office. Some people live in cities in small apartments and it may be very difficult to work from home (having no separate office or maybe even room for a desk) and nearly impossible for two people to work from home at the same time.

On the other hand, any decrease in productivity has to be weighed against not having a commute for an hour on average (and much longer in some metropolitan areas like San Francisco and New York City).

Robot Monster
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 11:23 am
Location: New York

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Robot Monster » Sat May 09, 2020 9:54 am

bling wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:04 am
i have a large REIT allocation in my portfolio and every other day i'm debating whether to cut back or eliminate it...

nonetheless, all of this information should already be priced in. so the real question is whether the future expected return will be any different than historical performance. there may be less need for office space in the future, but presumably other types of real estate would come in to replace it.
It could be there is too much pessimism priced in, or not enough! Who knows?! (Nobody & nuthin', right?)

According to Vanguard, REITS are a better hedge to unexpected inflation than the regular index (see Hedging inflation: The role of expectations - Vanguard) -- so for this reason I'm okay with REITs being in my portfolio as a diversifier, or so I tell myself.
"I HAVE THE POWER!!!" ~ He-Man

Hockey10
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:20 pm
Location: Philadelphia suburbs

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Hockey10 » Sat May 09, 2020 10:04 am

bling wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:44 am
Hockey10 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:18 am
What about the cybersecurity aspect of this? I would think that from the corporate IT security perspective, having most of the workers in the office would be more secure than having them scattered at home all over the place. I am not a tech expert, so maybe I am wrong, but just throwing this out there as something that would favor working from the office.
how worried are you when you make a trade with your own money sitting on your couch?
I am not worried at all. However, if a corporation is concerned about it, what would stop them from mandating that everyone has to work from the office?

KlangFool
Posts: 16668
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by KlangFool » Sat May 09, 2020 10:13 am

OP,

Even before this pandemic, many office spaces in my areas are converting into the condo. So, you are essentially living upstairs from your office. Office at the bottom floors and condo on the upper floors.

KlangFool

stoptothink
Posts: 7870
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 09, 2020 10:17 am

TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am
First, not everyone has a large house with an office. Some people live in cities in small apartments and it may be very difficult to work from home (having no separate office or maybe even room for a desk) and nearly impossible for two people to work from home at the same time.
Almost all of my employees live in apartments/condos and exactly zero (out of 27) want to return to the office (at least full-time). We're a family of 4 in a 1400sq. ft. townhome, no office and both of us work; you figure it out.

User avatar
Ramjet
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:45 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by Ramjet » Sat May 09, 2020 10:18 am

Everyone I know who is working from home prefers it

My wife says she gets more done and works more at home

oldfort
Posts: 1066
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by oldfort » Sat May 09, 2020 10:45 am

Hockey10 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:18 am
What about the cybersecurity aspect of this? I would think that from the corporate IT security perspective, having most of the workers in the office would be more secure than having them scattered at home all over the place. I am not a tech expert, so maybe I am wrong, but just throwing this out there as something that would favor working from the office.
In my federal government job, WFH has to end as soon as COVID-19 is over. For numerous reasons, accessing classified at home will never be a possibility. Corporate IT departments concerned about nation-state threats may be equally paranoid.

illumination
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:13 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by illumination » Sat May 09, 2020 11:30 am

I really think it's in a lot of trouble, I don't want a penny invested in it.

Amazon and e-commerce had nearly killed retail and the mall experience, the "gig" economy was already reshaping how and where people work, now you have large companies adapting (for the most part) to this model of working at home. That's not the entire commercial real estate market, but it's a huge part. Companies are absolutely rethinking this. I think a big downside though is if companies get comfortable with people working at home and "off site" I could see them just deciding to outsource a lot of these jobs as well, which will also hurt US commercial real estate.

I would be incredibly nervous if I was a landlord.

t00sl0w
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:48 am
Location: Florida

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by t00sl0w » Sat May 09, 2020 11:53 am

Hockey10 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:18 am
What about the cybersecurity aspect of this? I would think that from the corporate IT security perspective, having most of the workers in the office would be more secure than having them scattered at home all over the place. I am not a tech expert, so maybe I am wrong, but just throwing this out there as something that would favor working from the office.
I work in gov with certain things that are classified and/or controlled and we have split feelings towards this and how we handled it.
To prevent more department equipment from being in the field than we need/secure connections back to the main office, we chose to go with a remote desktop based infrastructure that allows everyone to access their workstations or laptops from home.
BUT
This does not solve certain things around information access and sadly, that means some things will always have to be done at the office. Luckily, for most things we've been able to figure out ways to handle them remotely and a lot of it just falls on the human aspect, which, even in the office, cant be "secured" entirely...ever.

oldfort
Posts: 1066
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by oldfort » Sat May 09, 2020 12:41 pm

t00sl0w wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:53 am
Hockey10 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:18 am
What about the cybersecurity aspect of this? I would think that from the corporate IT security perspective, having most of the workers in the office would be more secure than having them scattered at home all over the place. I am not a tech expert, so maybe I am wrong, but just throwing this out there as something that would favor working from the office.
I work in gov with certain things that are classified and/or controlled and we have split feelings towards this and how we handled it.
To prevent more department equipment from being in the field than we need/secure connections back to the main office, we chose to go with a remote desktop based infrastructure that allows everyone to access their workstations or laptops from home.
BUT
This does not solve certain things around information access and sadly, that means some things will always have to be done at the office. Luckily, for most things we've been able to figure out ways to handle them remotely and a lot of it just falls on the human aspect, which, even in the office, cant be "secured" entirely...ever.
If the information is truly classified, you can't use remote desktop from home. You have to access the information from a facility accredited for classified information. The Director of the CIA or the Secretary of Defense might have a home SCIF, but no one else does.

multiham
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:28 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by multiham » Sat May 09, 2020 12:56 pm

If this was 5 years ago and my company hadn't bought into the "open concept" office, I would have not minded going back to work when this is over. But now, why would I want to go back to finding a space (no assigned seating) at a long table to put down my laptop and work with people who are sitting 1 foot away from me on both sides. I am not allowed to have personal objects at work since you have to find a new space everyday. Instead, I save the 2 hours a day commute, the cost of gas, and get done more work more efficiently at home. I purchased a large monitor and printer for my home office so I actually have better equipment here than at the office. I have had dinner with my wife and kids more times during this WFH period then I have in the last 10 years combined. I am no longer getting home at 8PM, having dinner at 9, and going to bed at 10 without much physical activity.

Whoever came up with the open concept office should be forced to a lifetime of investing at Edward Jones in their highest load funds. Maybe it works if you are in IT, but I'm in Consumer Sales for a major CPG company. Worst concept ever.

TIAX
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by TIAX » Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:17 am
TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am
First, not everyone has a large house with an office. Some people live in cities in small apartments and it may be very difficult to work from home (having no separate office or maybe even room for a desk) and nearly impossible for two people to work from home at the same time.
Almost all of my employees live in apartments/condos and exactly zero (out of 27) want to return to the office (at least full-time). We're a family of 4 in a 1400sq. ft. townhome, no office and both of us work; you figure it out.
I don't doubt many people prefer to work from home but how much of their work from home time will be hanging out with their family and watching TV? Have you been able to quantify your employees' productivity from the office as compared to working from home?
Last edited by TIAX on Sat May 09, 2020 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 4801
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Sat May 09, 2020 1:07 pm

TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:17 am
TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am
First, not everyone has a large house with an office. Some people live in cities in small apartments and it may be very difficult to work from home (having no separate office or maybe even room for a desk) and nearly impossible for two people to work from home at the same time.
Almost all of my employees live in apartments/condos and exactly zero (out of 27) want to return to the office (at least full-time). We're a family of 4 in a 1400sq. ft. townhome, no office and both of us work; you figure it out.
I don't doubt many people prefer to work from home but how much of their work from home time will be hanging out with their family and watching TV? Have you been able to quantify your employees' productivity from work and while working from home?
How much “work” at the office is just wasting time online?

TIAX
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by TIAX » Sat May 09, 2020 1:09 pm

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:07 pm
TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:17 am
TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am
First, not everyone has a large house with an office. Some people live in cities in small apartments and it may be very difficult to work from home (having no separate office or maybe even room for a desk) and nearly impossible for two people to work from home at the same time.
Almost all of my employees live in apartments/condos and exactly zero (out of 27) want to return to the office (at least full-time). We're a family of 4 in a 1400sq. ft. townhome, no office and both of us work; you figure it out.
I don't doubt many people prefer to work from home but how much of their work from home time will be hanging out with their family and watching TV? Have you been able to quantify your employees' productivity from work and while working from home?
How much “work” at the office is just wasting time online?
You're certainly right about that but I would imagine it would be worse (or better if you're the employee) at home.

HawkeyePierce
Posts: 1326
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:29 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by HawkeyePierce » Sat May 09, 2020 1:17 pm

If tech companies finally let go of their open-office fetish, I might be willing to return. Otherwise I will be pushing hard for full time WFH.

New Providence
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:10 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by New Providence » Sat May 09, 2020 1:41 pm

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:07 pm
TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:17 am
TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am
First, not everyone has a large house with an office. Some people live in cities in small apartments and it may be very difficult to work from home (having no separate office or maybe even room for a desk) and nearly impossible for two people to work from home at the same time.
Almost all of my employees live in apartments/condos and exactly zero (out of 27) want to return to the office (at least full-time). We're a family of 4 in a 1400sq. ft. townhome, no office and both of us work; you figure it out.
I don't doubt many people prefer to work from home but how much of their work from home time will be hanging out with their family and watching TV? Have you been able to quantify your employees' productivity from work and while working from home?
How much “work” at the office is just wasting time online?
Whether at home or office, a high performer will remain so. Same applies to those requiring micromanaging. I do my work at home and get paid for it because I'm a high performer. Not my problem what my colleagues do or don't at home.

LittleMaggieMae
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by LittleMaggieMae » Sat May 09, 2020 2:01 pm

I wouldn't discount the prestige of an address in a Big City. Who wants their corporate lawyer to have the equivalent of a PO box address? :) And were does a Big Company house their mail room? and Servers and records department and Payroll department (I do NOT want my personal info available to someone working from home on their couch...) I would think "insider trading" might skyrocket if people working from home do not have secure offices... it's bad enough we can't talk ABOUT WORK at home - but how can we do work "TALK" at home if there's kids, spouses, friends, who the heck knows who else in the background?

How much of an expense is it for a Big Company to provide hardware (laptops, printers, phones, who knows what else) to their work from home people? I would think employees shouldn't have to provide those things. How does an employer keep the employee's family from using those things? What happens when a device breaks or fails? How do you get the employee functioning quickly?

What happens to the people in homes with no easy way to have an office? (a desk in the corner of the bedroom or living room isn't particularly "secure" or apart from the rest of the people in the house).

Which brings ups - what happens with a break in? or a vindictive significant other (or house guest) who steals/sells the company owned hardware(and all the corporate private stuff on it?) OK, employees can remote in to their "desk top" but still... I would think there's an issue.

There are expenses with video conferences and conference calls - that don't occur when everyone is in the same building.

I don't think it's that big of a "production will drop" issue - it's more of a how does the expense of having people work from home compare to the expense of having them in the office.
Last edited by LittleMaggieMae on Sat May 09, 2020 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

grettman
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by grettman » Sat May 09, 2020 2:04 pm

runner3081 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:27 pm
Destroy it? I highly doubt it.

Will life be different following this? For a few years, until everyone forgets.
+1. People have very short memories....

bling
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Will work from home destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by bling » Sat May 09, 2020 2:21 pm

grettman wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 2:04 pm
runner3081 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:27 pm
Destroy it? I highly doubt it.

Will life be different following this? For a few years, until everyone forgets.
+1. People have very short memories....
perhaps, but going back to normal will be a gradual change, not sudden. which means, as long as talent demands WFH, it will naturally become a part of industry culture.

it wasn't too long ago that the dress code of wall street firms was formal. nowadays, most firms have gone casual. it's not going back.

JBTX
Posts: 6338
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by JBTX » Sat May 09, 2020 2:22 pm

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:07 pm
TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:17 am
TIAX wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am
First, not everyone has a large house with an office. Some people live in cities in small apartments and it may be very difficult to work from home (having no separate office or maybe even room for a desk) and nearly impossible for two people to work from home at the same time.
Almost all of my employees live in apartments/condos and exactly zero (out of 27) want to return to the office (at least full-time). We're a family of 4 in a 1400sq. ft. townhome, no office and both of us work; you figure it out.
I don't doubt many people prefer to work from home but how much of their work from home time will be hanging out with their family and watching TV? Have you been able to quantify your employees' productivity from work and while working from home?
How much “work” at the office is just wasting time online?
This. I suspect if it were measured it would be quite high 25-50%.

JBTX
Posts: 6338
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by JBTX » Sat May 09, 2020 2:39 pm

I tend to think this trend will be made mostly permanent

- the excuse used to be that it just wouldn't work. In most cases it has worked. In some cases management who were dead set against it have now worked from home and liked it. I think sometimes it was more "experienced" management that had a "butts in seats" mentality.

- all of the converted open office work space will have to be modified until we are totally clear of covid, which could be a couple of years.

- companies that are able to convert are much more adaptable for various contingencies.

- if companies can rely less on leasing, maintaining, reconfiguring, moving office spaces that is real money saved.

- to the extent employees don't have to commute, time is saved, money is saved, and maybe child care is saved. Ultimately that has value to employees and can be monetized as lower increases in salaries/wages.

I had already worked from home and on balance am more productive. It is true that I am more likely to get distracted during working hours on non work tasks, but at the same time having zero commute time offsets it, and I find if I have a heavy task load I tend to just keep working at night in order to make progress.

It is true that there is a social aspect that you miss, but I'm my case that is fairly minimal and not worth the downside of 2 hrs per day of commuting.

mptfan
Posts: 6049
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 am

Re: Will "work from home" destroy the commercial real estate market?

Post by mptfan » Sat May 09, 2020 2:50 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:25 am
I am really enjoying working from home, but the c-suite has asked all "upper level managers/directors" to return to the office starting on the 18th.
Was it really a question?

Post Reply