Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

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Sheepdog
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Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Sheepdog »

My wife received the below message. Since she will not use a computer, and therefore will be communicating by mail and telephone when I will not be able to communicate, they wanted to let her know about this future change. (She has conversed with Vanguard on how to handle things then and that's another story.)
Dear Jane........,
In a few months, Vanguard will be announcing new mailing addresses in El Paso, Texas, for incoming mail. We're notifying you of this change in advance as a courtesy; you don't need to take any action at this time.

Keep in mind that our website is still the fastest, most convenient way to complete most transactions and perform maintenance on your accounts. We encourage you to visit our site and review your options before sending us mail.

What's next?
We expect to begin operations in El Paso this summer, with the goal of being fully active by the end of July. We'll be changing the addresses on our forms and website over a period of several weeks.

You can find updates about this transition on our website throughout the summer. As soon as the new addresses are active, we'll let you know. Until then, please continue to direct any correspondence to the current mailing addresses on your forms.

This change does not apply to Corporate Trust accounts where Vanguard National Trust Company is serving as trustee.

Why are we making this change?
We continually evaluate our technological processes and have determined it's in the interest of Vanguard and our clients to partner with an outside company to manage our mail operations.

We selected Swiss Post Solutions (SPS)—a leading provider of mailroom and document management services—for their specialization, technology, and ability to quickly ramp up or scale back operations to accommodate changing mail volumes.

Rest assured that our Enterprise Security and Fraud Department has performed a robust risk analysis of SPS's facilities and processes. We'll continue to conduct periodic reviews to make sure SPS is following Vanguard's information security protocols and requirements.

We're confident that our partnership with SPS will provide a world-class mail and document management experience, while maintaining the highest security, risk, and controls standards.

Thank you for belonging to the Vanguard community of investors. We look forward to continuing to serve your investing needs
.
Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn.~ Delmore Schwartz
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by RadAudit »

Sheepdog wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:46 pm My wife .... will not use a computer, and therefore will be communicating by mail and telephone when I will not be able to communicate, they wanted to let her know about this future change. (She has conversed with Vanguard on how to handle things then and that's another story.)
Hoping that time is at least another good 20 or 30+ years in the future. I look forward to your posts.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The cavalry isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Sheepdog »

RadAudit wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:55 pm Hoping that time is at least another good 20 or 30+ years in the future. I look forward to your posts.
Gee, thanks
Let's see. 20 years will be at age 107. I will have to work on that 8-) .
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by nisiprius »

Oh, dear. Poor Monroe, Wisconsin. I hope it wasn't anything I said.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by 123 »

With a new mailing address in El Paso Texas I wonder if the work will be done there or if it will be sent across the border for processing.

With one move like this it seems like Vanguard is able to destroy a lot of customer goodwill, likely for little benefit.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by fabdog »

With a new mailing address in El Paso Texas I wonder if the work will be done there or if it will be sent across the border for processing.
Really? What led you to that conclusion? It appears they are contracting with a company (Swiss Post Solutions) to handle the mail for them. If you're a Schwab Customer you know they have mail operations in El Paso as well.

What goodwill is Vanguard destroying here?

Mike
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by 123 »

fabdog wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:35 pm
With a new mailing address in El Paso Texas I wonder if the work will be done there or if it will be sent across the border for processing.
Really? What led you to that conclusion? It appears they are contracting with a company (Swiss Post Solutions) to handle the mail for them. If you're a Schwab Customer you know they have mail operations in El Paso as well.

What goodwill is Vanguard destroying here?

Mike
When a company moves their operations support personnel (even if outsourced) away from their headquarters it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Oh I'm sure they save money, that's the MBA way isn't it? But it means less management oversight, the same way as when customer support call centers are outsourced to overseas locations. It just frequently foreshadows a "we don't really care about the customer" attitude. Schwab's reputation dropped a number of notches in my view when they relocated operations away from their initial headquarters city of San Francisco to operations centers in Texas and Phoenix.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by HawkeyeJD »

In 10+ years I've never called or sent mail to Vanguard so I don't see much impact at least to me. I don't intend to start doing so in the future either.

What I find interesting is essentially this is the "cloud" model of mail-room management...rather than running your own local operation with all the overhead and expense, you outsource to a specialized operation that can scale in real time with your business. Never really thought of a mailroom operation like that. Not sure my comment here is on topic or relevant, just something I found interesting.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by fabdog »

When a company moves their operations support personnel (even if outsourced) away from their headquarters it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Oh I'm sure they save money, that's the MBA way isn't it? But it means less management oversight, the same way as when customer support call centers are outsourced to overseas locations.
I was under the impression that Vanguard clients as owners were in favor of reducing expenses.
Schwab's reputation dropped a number of notches in my view when they relocated operations away from their initial headquarters city of San Francisco to operations centers in Texas and Phoenix.
Not sure how Schwab would have stayed in business with all of their personnel in San Francisco

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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by criticalmass »

Presumably the Swiss Post service scans mail and uploads it to an image server, where Vanguard employees can view it across the country.

Why not just allow customers to do their own document scanning and upload it to an image server where Vanguard employees may view it?

Or better yet, reduce the number of paper forms completely by allowing more electronic transactions?

Vanguard does require a lot of paper documents for interbroker transfers, name changes, and other mundane events. Unless you need to mail in a stock certificate, it would be nice if the printing and mailing of forms can be reduced. Vanguard has said they intend to do that, so perhaps Swiss Post is just to handle what is left over after automation modernization.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

123 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:48 pm
fabdog wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:35 pm
With a new mailing address in El Paso Texas I wonder if the work will be done there or if it will be sent across the border for processing.
Really? What led you to that conclusion? It appears they are contracting with a company (Swiss Post Solutions) to handle the mail for them. If you're a Schwab Customer you know they have mail operations in El Paso as well.

What goodwill is Vanguard destroying here?

Mike
When a company moves their operations support personnel (even if outsourced) away from their headquarters it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Oh I'm sure they save money, that's the MBA way isn't it? But it means less management oversight, the same way as when customer support call centers are outsourced to overseas locations. It just frequently foreshadows a "we don't really care about the customer" attitude. Schwab's reputation dropped a number of notches in my view when they relocated operations away from their initial headquarters city of San Francisco to operations centers in Texas and Phoenix.
If it wasn’t for the “MBA way” your stocks wouldn’t be valued anywhere near where they are now.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by nisiprius »

I don't think they were doing it "themselves" before. As I mentioned in another thread, my statements are mailed from Monroe, Wisconsin, population 11,000, best known as the home of Swiss Colony Cheese.

Random clicking around in Google Maps and random web searches don't indicate any obvious "Vanguard" presence in Monroe, but do show a big building identified as "R. R. Donnelley," and one of the businesses they are in is conducting mail operations for other companies. And, I'm grateful to a forum member who PM-ed me and tipped me off to this: if I download a Vanguard statement, go into the Mac finder, and perform a "Get Info" on the file, I see:

Image

Thus I feel sure that Vanguard's current mailing operations are already outsourced to R. R. Donnelley, and that they are just changing the outside firm, and there is probably no loss of Vanguard jobs involved.

I'd like to know more about R. R. Donnelley. It's one of those names that keeps popping up. They are involved in almost every kind of "printing," and Wikipedia mentions that they were involved in the production of fine books, but I think they are most famous for gigantic printing jobs like phone books and the Sears catalog in the days when there were Sears catalogs, and census forms, and such.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by HawkeyePierce »

123 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:48 pm
fabdog wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:35 pm
With a new mailing address in El Paso Texas I wonder if the work will be done there or if it will be sent across the border for processing.
Really? What led you to that conclusion? It appears they are contracting with a company (Swiss Post Solutions) to handle the mail for them. If you're a Schwab Customer you know they have mail operations in El Paso as well.

What goodwill is Vanguard destroying here?

Mike
When a company moves their operations support personnel (even if outsourced) away from their headquarters it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Oh I'm sure they save money, that's the MBA way isn't it? But it means less management oversight, the same way as when customer support call centers are outsourced to overseas locations. It just frequently foreshadows a "we don't really care about the customer" attitude. Schwab's reputation dropped a number of notches in my view when they relocated operations away from their initial headquarters city of San Francisco to operations centers in Texas and Phoenix.
Vanguard is headquartered in Pennsylvania, not Wisconsin where they currently process mail. This changes nothing.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by ee_guy »

fabdog wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:12 pm
I was under the impression that Vanguard clients as owners were in favor of reducing expenses.
Schwab's reputation dropped a number of notches in my view when they relocated operations away from their initial headquarters city of San Francisco to operations centers in Texas and Phoenix.
Not sure how Schwab would have stayed in business with all of their personnel in San Francisco

Mike
The mantra of big business and MBAs is to maximize shareholder value. This means reducing expense. If it means outsourcing functions to reduce expense then so be it. The logical next move is to move call centers from PA to outside he US. Having said this, I have admire Fidelity for moving it's mail center to Kentucky.

BTW, I have been a Vanguard client since 1987. Over the years, the quality of its service has gone down. It is barely acceptable.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Mel Lindauer »

The Vanguard-supplied Business Reply Envelopes for deposits and other mail go to PA, not WI.

Here's the address:

VANGUARD
PO Box 8100
Southeastern PA 19398-9984

That directs to Berwyn PA, which is near Vanguard's headquarters in Malvern PA.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by HenryPorter »

So does this address change mean that down the road when I roll over my 401k to Vanguard, I am having the check mailed to El Paso?
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Mel Lindauer »

HenryPorter wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:36 pm So does this address change mean that down the road when I roll over my 401k to Vanguard, I am having the check mailed to El Paso?
Probably so. Vanguard will be issuing new Business Reply Envelopes with the El Paso address according to a courtesy call that I got from Vanguard.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by criticalmass »

nisiprius wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:49 pm I don't think they were doing it "themselves" before. As I mentioned in another thread, my statements are mailed from Monroe, Wisconsin, population 11,000, best known as the home of Swiss Colony Cheese.

Random clicking around in Google Maps and random web searches don't indicate any obvious "Vanguard" presence in Monroe, but do show a big building identified as "R. R. Donnelley," and one of the businesses they are in is conducting mail operations for other companies. And, I'm grateful to a forum member who PM-ed me and tipped me off to this: if I download a Vanguard statement, go into the Mac finder, and perform a "Get Info" on the file, I see:

Image

Thus I feel sure that Vanguard's current mailing operations are already outsourced to R. R. Donnelley, and that they are just changing the outside firm, and there is probably no loss of Vanguard jobs involved.

I'd like to know more about R. R. Donnelley. It's one of those names that keeps popping up. They are involved in almost every kind of "printing," and Wikipedia mentions that they were involved in the production of fine books, but I think they are most famous for gigantic printing jobs like phone books and the Sears catalog in the days when there were Sears catalogs, and census forms, and such.
You are discussing paper statements mailed to you, which is a separate matter. The change noted above involves mail customers SEND to Vanguard, which will not go to Vanguard at all, but to a west Texas operation, which will presumably scan the documents for Vanguard to see and process.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by criticalmass »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:33 pm The Vanguard-supplied Business Reply Envelopes for deposits and other mail go to PA, not WI.

Here's the address:

VANGUARD
PO Box 8100
Southeastern PA 19398-9984

That directs to Berwyn PA, which is near Vanguard's headquarters in Malvern PA.
More specifically, the "Southeastern PA" represents the post office processing & distribution center near Vanguard. (It was recently mostly shutdown and consolidated with the Philadelphia P&DC but the address remains). This allows mail to bypass an end post office, speeding up delivery and making things more efficient for large customers. Navy Federal Credit Union, the largest credit union, does the same.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by bikesandbeers »

El Paso has lots of cheap labor on it's own, I see no reason to go across the border, but that just speculation.

My company deals with lot of personal information on scanned paper forums in the cloud. I'd guess Vanguard has some stringent procedures in place to ensure your information is protected
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Stinky »

As a teensy tiny “owner” of Vanguard, I like to see management running the operation as frugally as possible.

If they can save money by outsourcing the incoming mail operation to a firm in West Texas, more power to them.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Gort »

Much ado about nothing. At least the low humidity in El Paso will keep the envelopes from sticking together as they go through the mail processing equipment. :sharebeer
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by J G Bankerton »

I don't like it; once a year I mail checks to Vanguard to invest in accounts I'm the agent for. I'm a limited agent so I can't electronically transfer funds between accounts or from a bank.

Who are these people? I see Swiss Post on packages I get from "developing" countries. I can see this being like when a paid-by-the-job CATV contractor, instead of an in house tech, show up to do work.

Vanguard is changing course, I keep getting popups advertising advisors when I log on to my account. Vanguard is also suggesting their managed funds over their index funds. Couple this with them doing business with China and it makes me wonder.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by asset_chaos »

I had only one memorable interaction with Vanguard's mail services, and that was with whoever handled their mail services about 20 years ago---in sourced, out sourced, I don't know. I got mailed end of year statements for, I believe, every Vanguard retail client in Melbourne Australia. Don't worry, it was at the time only a couple dozen envelopes because Vanguard had only started an Australian institutional only operation that year. Someone---possibly Australia Post---somewhere along the track had forgotten to remove the rubber band that bundled the envelopes together, and I recieved them all by the random chance that mine was on top. I mailed all the envelopes, minus mine, to the head of Vanguard Australia, suggesting Vanguard might want to complain to their mail services supplier. Maybe they finally did.-)
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by celia »

Sheepdog wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:46 pm My wife received the below message. Since she will not use a computer, and therefore will be communicating by mail and telephone when I will not be able to communicate, they wanted to let her know about this future change. (She has conversed with Vanguard on how to handle things then and that's another story.)
Dear Jane........,
In a few months, Vanguard will be announcing new mailing addresses in El Paso, Texas, for incoming mail. We're notifying you of this change in advance as a courtesy; you don't need to take any action at this time....
I would consider this a fraudulent piece of spam until I learned otherwise. Even if El Paso has an incoming mail center there, I would continue sending my correspondence to Valley Forge, PA, especially if no other Bogleheads get such a letter.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by stan1 »

J G Bankerton wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:11 pm Who are these people? I see Swiss Post on packages I get from "developing" countries. I can see this being like when a paid-by-the-job CATV contractor, instead of an in house tech, show up to do work.

Vanguard is changing course, I keep getting popups advertising advisors when I log on to my account. Vanguard is also suggesting their managed funds over their index funds. Couple this with them doing business with China and it makes me wonder.
Vanguard has been offering and advertising managed funds since before they had index funds. Vanguard has never stopped advertising managed funds during that time including while Jack Bogle was CEO. Vanguard's expense ratios for their managed funds continue to be up to 5-10x less than competitors. Directing clients who need more support towards advisors lowers expense ratios for people who don't need extra help. If you want to only do business with or invest in companies that don't operate in China you might have a business idea for very narrow ETF: Total Market ex companies that do business in China. Hmmm..... maybe there would be quite a bit of demand for that?
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by SxSW »

ee_guy wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:30 pm The mantra of big business and MBAs is to maximize shareholder value. This means reducing expense. If it means outsourcing functions to reduce expense then so be it. The logical next move is to move call centers from PA to outside he US.
With the requirement that reps be licensed within each state and territory in which they do business, it's unlikely they'll be using overseas call centers anytime soon.
BTW, I have been a Vanguard client since 1987. Over the years, the quality of its service has gone down. It is barely acceptable.
Given attrition rates and the current size of the company, almost nobody there dates from Bogle's tenure.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by J G Bankerton »

celia wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:33 pm I would consider this a fraudulent piece of spam until I learned otherwise. Even if El Paso has an incoming mail center there, I would continue sending my correspondence to Valley Forge, PA, especially if no other Bogleheads get such a letter.
It's for real, the new address is on Vanguard's site. What worries me is third party vendors, paying people as little as possible, will have access to personal information that is connected to trillions of dollars in life's savings.

Swiss Post Solutions is 100% owned by the Swiss government through their post office. Swiss Post CEO, Susanne Ruoff, resigned as chief executive officer after a subsidiary was accused of "manipulating its accounting and systematically concealing profits in order to collect excess subsidies.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

J G Bankerton wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:43 pm
celia wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:33 pm I would consider this a fraudulent piece of spam until I learned otherwise. Even if El Paso has an incoming mail center there, I would continue sending my correspondence to Valley Forge, PA, especially if no other Bogleheads get such a letter.
It's for real, the new address is on Vanguard's site. What worries me is third party vendors, paying people as little as possible, will have access to personal information that is connected to trillions of dollars in life's savings.

Swiss Post Solutions is 100% owned by the Swiss government through their post office. Swiss Post CEO, Susanne Ruoff, resigned as chief executive officer after a subsidiary was accused of "manipulating its accounting and systematically concealing profits in order to collect excess subsidies.
Wasn't Vanguard using a third-party vendor in Wisconsin already?

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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by dkturner »

celia wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:33 pm
Sheepdog wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:46 pm My wife received the below message. Since she will not use a computer, and therefore will be communicating by mail and telephone when I will not be able to communicate, they wanted to let her know about this future change. (She has conversed with Vanguard on how to handle things then and that's another story.)
Dear Jane........,
In a few months, Vanguard will be announcing new mailing addresses in El Paso, Texas, for incoming mail. We're notifying you of this change in advance as a courtesy; you don't need to take any action at this time....
I would consider this a fraudulent piece of spam until I learned otherwise. Even if El Paso has an incoming mail center there, I would continue sending my correspondence to Valley Forge, PA, especially if no other Bogleheads get such a letter.
I believe Vanguard is essentially notifying their customers that, if they use the preprinted investment slips with their investment checks that go in the postage prepaid Vanguard envelopes, the envelopes will go to El Paso rather than Valley Forge in the future. If you live on the east coast it may take an extra day or two for delivery. It may speed things up for people who live in the central or western part of the U.S.
Last edited by dkturner on Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by stan1 »

You can verify the address is correct here on the Vanguard website under the Contact Us tab
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/serviceCenter/Vanguard

Part of the specific concern seems to be El Paso. Why is that?
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by J G Bankerton »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:25 am
J G Bankerton wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:43 pm
celia wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:33 pm I would consider this a fraudulent piece of spam until I learned otherwise. Even if El Paso has an incoming mail center there, I would continue sending my correspondence to Valley Forge, PA, especially if no other Bogleheads get such a letter.
It's for real, the new address is on Vanguard's site. What worries me is third party vendors, paying people as little as possible, will have access to personal information that is connected to trillions of dollars in life's savings.

Swiss Post Solutions is 100% owned by the Swiss government through their post office. Swiss Post CEO, Susanne Ruoff, resigned as chief executive officer after a subsidiary was accused of "manipulating its accounting and systematically concealing profits in order to collect excess subsidies.
Wasn't Vanguard using a third-party vendor in Wisconsin already?

Broken Man 1999
I have only mailed checks to Pennsylvanian where they were cashed and invested in the funds I directed. These people in Texas will have access to the inner workings of Vanguard and accounts.
stan1 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:43 am You can verify the address is correct here on the Vanguard website under the Contact Us tab
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/serviceCenter/Vanguard

Part of the specific concern seems to be El Paso. Why is that?
The concern is contractors will have access to our accounts and personal information. I have to mail checks once a year, there is no other way for me to do it as I'm a limited agent on two accounts; I don't have electronic bank deposit or withdrawal access. This really bothers me. :annoyed
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by dkturner »

J G Bankerton wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:22 am
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:25 am
J G Bankerton wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:43 pm
celia wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:33 pm I would consider this a fraudulent piece of spam until I learned otherwise. Even if El Paso has an incoming mail center there, I would continue sending my correspondence to Valley Forge, PA, especially if no other Bogleheads get such a letter.
It's for real, the new address is on Vanguard's site. What worries me is third party vendors, paying people as little as possible, will have access to personal information that is connected to trillions of dollars in life's savings.

Swiss Post Solutions is 100% owned by the Swiss government through their post office. Swiss Post CEO, Susanne Ruoff, resigned as chief executive officer after a subsidiary was accused of "manipulating its accounting and systematically concealing profits in order to collect excess subsidies.
Wasn't Vanguard using a third-party vendor in Wisconsin already?

Broken Man 1999
I have only mailed checks to Pennsylvanian where they were cashed and invested in the funds I directed. These people in Texas will have access to the inner workings of Vanguard and accounts.
stan1 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:43 am You can verify the address is correct here on the Vanguard website under the Contact Us tab
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/serviceCenter/Vanguard

Part of the specific concern seems to be El Paso. Why is that?
The concern is contractors will have access to our accounts and personal information. I have to mail checks once a year, there is no other way for me to do it as I'm a limited agent on two accounts; I don't have electronic bank deposit or withdrawal access. This really bothers me. :annoyed
Won’t the people in the ElPaso mail room simply be scanning your checks and deposit slips into their computer terminals?
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

J G Bankerton wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:22 am
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:25 am
J G Bankerton wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:43 pm
celia wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:33 pm I would consider this a fraudulent piece of spam until I learned otherwise. Even if El Paso has an incoming mail center there, I would continue sending my correspondence to Valley Forge, PA, especially if no other Bogleheads get such a letter.
It's for real, the new address is on Vanguard's site. What worries me is third party vendors, paying people as little as possible, will have access to personal information that is connected to trillions of dollars in life's savings.

Swiss Post Solutions is 100% owned by the Swiss government through their post office. Swiss Post CEO, Susanne Ruoff, resigned as chief executive officer after a subsidiary was accused of "manipulating its accounting and systematically concealing profits in order to collect excess subsidies.
Wasn't Vanguard using a third-party vendor in Wisconsin already?

Broken Man 1999
I have only mailed checks to Pennsylvanian where they were cashed and invested in the funds I directed. These people in Texas will have access to the inner workings of Vanguard and accounts.
stan1 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:43 am You can verify the address is correct here on the Vanguard website under the Contact Us tab
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/serviceCenter/Vanguard

Part of the specific concern seems to be El Paso. Why is that?
The concern is contractors will have access to our accounts and personal information. I have to mail checks once a year, there is no other way for me to do it as I'm a limited agent on two accounts; I don't have electronic bank deposit or withdrawal access. This really bothers me. :annoyed
Interesting. I have limited agent status for four people, and I can buy and sell, sending/pulling money via their linked bank accounts.

For three accounts outside funds are the only way to buy funds, as those three folks have no taxable accounts at Vanguard to fund buys with new money.

I have never filled out extra paperwork to be able to do these activities.

Perhap your limited agent accounts do not have a linked bank?

It would be easier for all if you could do what I am able to do, instead of mailing stuff.

Nevertheless, I would imagine Vanguard has vetted the third-party vendor as well as they can, and I would wager the third-party vendor in El Paso is being used by others, also.

Anyhoo, good luck!

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
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J G Bankerton
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by J G Bankerton »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:45 am Interesting. I have limited agent status for four people, and I can buy and sell, sending/pulling money via their linked bank accounts.
They must have given you access to their bank accounts. I don't know the relationship but that goes beyond just having access to the brokerage account. At this point in time there are no bank accounts linked to the brokerage accounts I'm the agent for. I can trade within the accounts no problem; what I can't do is trade outside the accounts. The only trade I can do from the outside is buy by check.

I tried to buy from my settlement fund and I couldn't, it said I don't have full agent authority. I should have made myself a full agent from the start but I wanted to keep myself out of trouble and keep it as simple as possible. I figured mailing a check once a year was not a big deal, I even had the timing down so Vanguard got the check on January 2ed.

I see I have two options, make the principals go through the bother of making me a full agent, with the notarizing of forms or have them link a bank account. The linking of a bank account sounds easiest.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

J G Bankerton wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:04 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:45 am Interesting. I have limited agent status for four people, and I can buy and sell, sending/pulling money via their linked bank accounts.
They must have given you access to their bank accounts. I don't know the relationship but that goes beyond just having access to the brokerage account. At this point in time there are no bank accounts linked to the brokerage accounts I'm the agent for. I can trade within the accounts no problem; what I can't do is trade outside the accounts. The only trade I can do from the outside is buy by check.

I tried to buy from my settlement fund and I couldn't, it said I don't have full agent authority. I should have made myself a full agent from the start but I wanted to keep myself out of trouble and keep it as simple as possible. I figured mailing a check once a year was not a big deal, I even had the timing down so Vanguard got the check on January 2ed.

I see I have two options, make the principals go through the bother of making me a full agent, with the notarizing of forms or have them link a bank account. The linking of a bank account sounds easiest.
Yes! Once they have linked a bank account, you should be good to go. You shouldn't have to do anything else, so far as any additional permissions, limited agent is all I have for the accounts I manage, even DW's.

Broken Man 1999

BTW, one step of adding a bank account will be verification. Vanguard will send two very small deposits to the linked bank account, then pull the deposits back. The next step would be filling in the bank deposits amounts, and you would be good to go.

So, coordination with the account owners will be required, unless you have access to their bank accounts outside of your Vanguard activities.
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
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J G Bankerton
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by J G Bankerton »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:10 pm BTW, one step of adding a bank account will be verification. Vanguard will send two very small deposits to the linked bank account, then pull the deposits back. The next step would be filling in the bank deposits amounts, and you would be good to go.

So, coordination with the account owners will be required, unless you have access to their bank accounts outside of your Vanguard activities.
These accounts belong to my adult children. My son is learning about our way of investing and he has the basics down so there will be no problem. My daughter on the other hand has zero interest in investments. She is an educator and only wants to change lives, this concerns me but she knows enough to let me handle it and stay away from insurance sales people in advisors clothing. They stalk the halls and teacher lounges looking for opportunities.

Now that I think about it Vanguard will be getting less paper transactions now. They may have figured that into the equation.
cvn74n2
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by cvn74n2 »

RANT ON:
Neither my wife or I received any notice/email/message about the mailing change.

Therefore, when we went to transfer our Janus Traditional IRAs to Vanguard on 05 July, the online third party agent improperly characterized them as Variable Annuities, forcing us to submit a hard copy paperwork generated by Vanguard. On the paperwork were the following mailing addresses:

Please mail your completed form(s) and account statement to:
Vanguard
P.O. Box 1110
Valley Forge, PA 19482-1110

For overnight, registered, or certified delivery, mail to:
Vanguard
455 Devon Park Drive
Wayne, PA 19087-1815

We sent the paperwork to the first address on 07 July.

Now it has been a game of "where is the paperwork"?

Weekly PMs result in "I don't know, give 7-10 business days" from Vanguard reps. The latest says to resend to El Paso (first hint of the mail change).

Today I asked for what happened to the paperwork sent to PO Box 1110 with our PII. At a minimum, I hope it was shredded.

What a soup sandwich!
RANT OFF
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3bee4bee
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by 3bee4bee »

I sent a check to be deposited to my account via standard USPS mail to the El Paso mailing address. This was on July 18th, and as of August 10th they still haven't received it.
stan1
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by stan1 »

3bee4bee wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:58 pm I sent a check to be deposited to my account via standard USPS mail to the El Paso mailing address. This was on July 18th, and as of August 10th they still haven't received it.
That may not be Vanguard's problem. USPS seems to be having some issues too.
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3bee4bee
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by 3bee4bee »

stan1 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:20 pm
3bee4bee wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:58 pm I sent a check to be deposited to my account via standard USPS mail to the El Paso mailing address. This was on July 18th, and as of August 10th they still haven't received it.
That may not be Vanguard's problem. USPS seems to be having some issues too.
Very true, it may be an USPS issue. At this point I am starting to get worried that USPS may have lost my check. I initiated a missing mail search request with USPS (https://www.usps.com/help/missing-mail.htm) but since it was just a standard mail, I am not optimistic that it will be traced. Have others dealt with a similar issue? I assume that I will have to put a stop on the check and try to send a new one again.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by stan1 »

3bee4bee wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:07 am
stan1 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:20 pm
3bee4bee wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:58 pm I sent a check to be deposited to my account via standard USPS mail to the El Paso mailing address. This was on July 18th, and as of August 10th they still haven't received it.
That may not be Vanguard's problem. USPS seems to be having some issues too.
Very true, it may be an USPS issue. At this point I am starting to get worried that USPS may have lost my check. I initiated a missing mail search request with USPS (https://www.usps.com/help/missing-mail.htm) but since it was just a standard mail, I am not optimistic that it will be traced. Have others dealt with a similar issue? I assume that I will have to put a stop on the check and try to send a new one again.
Personally I would give it another week or two, but that might depend. Hopefully it is not a $500K 401K distribution check and if it was I'd be going crazy.

Until USPS problems get resolved I would deposit a check into a bank using a phone or ATM or teller window and then transfer funds to Vanguard.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by rossington »

3bee4bee wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:07 am
stan1 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:20 pm
3bee4bee wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:58 pm I sent a check to be deposited to my account via standard USPS mail to the El Paso mailing address. This was on July 18th, and as of August 10th they still haven't received it.
That may not be Vanguard's problem. USPS seems to be having some issues too.
Very true, it may be an USPS issue. At this point I am starting to get worried that USPS may have lost my check. I initiated a missing mail search request with USPS (https://www.usps.com/help/missing-mail.htm) but since it was just a standard mail, I am not optimistic that it will be traced. Have others dealt with a similar issue? I assume that I will have to put a stop on the check and try to send a new one again.
Depending on the amount of the check in the future you should at least send them Certified Mail. If it is a very large amount send it Registered Mail. But as stan1 mentioned set up an ACH ("ACH stands for Automated Clearing House, which is a network that coordinates electronic payments and automated money transfers. ACH is a way to move money between banks without using paper checks, wire transfers, credit card networks, or cash") with your bank and Vanguard for money transfers and you will eliminate the USPS. Vanguard makes it an easy process to set up.
Hope you locate your check.
"Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." Winston Churchill.
cvn74n2
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by cvn74n2 »

As an update to my 02 Aug rant, we sent another set of hard copy paperwork to the El Paso processing center. This time it was sent via USPS Certified Mail. Per the USPS website, the paperwork was delivered on 21 Aug.

There has been no reflection of receipt/work on Vanguard's part. :twisted:

Subsequent messages sent to Vanguard Voyager via account messaging went unanswered until 18 Sep. According to Vanguard, the paperwork has yet to be received. I provided the tracking number to show it was delivered but have yet to receive a reply.

This marks the second time Vanguard internal processing went awry. I have resigned myself to making a rollover vice transfer. I don't expect to do another rollover in the next 365 days and at least I will be in control of the process.
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Tom_T »

I would consider this a fraudulent piece of spam until I learned otherwise. Even if El Paso has an incoming mail center there, I would continue sending my correspondence to Valley Forge, PA, especially if no other Bogleheads get such a letter.
It's not spam. The Vanguard site itself now explains this:

https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VG ... _change#!/
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by SxSW »

J G Bankerton wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:22 am The concern is contractors will have access to our accounts and personal information. I have to mail checks once a year, there is no other way for me to do it as I'm a limited agent on two accounts; I don't have electronic bank deposit or withdrawal access. This really bothers me. :annoyed
You realize that contractors have had access to your accounts for years, right?
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by galawdawg »

cvn74n2 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:03 pm As an update to my 02 Aug rant, we sent another set of hard copy paperwork to the El Paso processing center. This time it was sent via USPS Certified Mail. Per the USPS website, the paperwork was delivered on 21 Aug.

There has been no reflection of receipt/work on Vanguard's part. :twisted:

Subsequent messages sent to Vanguard Voyager via account messaging went unanswered until 18 Sep. According to Vanguard, the paperwork has yet to be received. I provided the tracking number to show it was delivered but have yet to receive a reply.

This marks the second time Vanguard internal processing went awry. I have resigned myself to making a rollover vice transfer. I don't expect to do another rollover in the next 365 days and at least I will be in control of the process.
Wow! Last year I moved my entire portfolio from Vanguard Brokerage Services (after thirty years as a client-owner) to E*TRADE (where I still hold the same Vanguard mutual funds I held at Vanguard). I have had two documents I have had to send to E*TRADE. The one I sent by US mail was received within three days when I saw an alert on my account page indicating "inbound correspondence received". I was able to email the second document to my local representative and it was acted upon within two days.

I can't imagine any competent brokerage not being able to do something as simple as handling their mail in a timely manner....
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by Dude2 »

This slowed down a TIRA transfer I did between Vanguard and my credit union. In that case, my credit union had to contact Vanguard, and they must have used the "old" address. This process stretched into a two month timeframe and required 3 calls to Vanguard in which everyday they were experiencing "an extremely high call volume" and every 5 minutes it would pretend to ring the phone only to tell you to "stay on the line, and someone will be with you shortly." Oh well, eventually everything got straightened out. No biggee.
Henceforth I’ll bear Affliction till it do cry out itself, “Enough, enough,” and die.
jkusa1791
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Re: Vanguard will be moving their mail operations to El Paso in the future

Post by jkusa1791 »

Here is a quick El Paso success story. I mailed a rollover check on Monday to the El Paso address. They received in Wednesday. It was credited to my account Thursday. I imagine that this works way more often than it doesn't but it is a mess when it doesn't.
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