How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

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ScoobyDoo
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How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by ScoobyDoo »

How much do you talk to/teach your friends and family members about financial literacy/decisions? We don't learn this in school...and there are many fraudsters out there.

When I hear a friend say, I should get an annuity or go to a MLM or Rich dad/ poor dad training for 10,000...I wanna go on a soliloquy about the probability is low that its a good financial decision.

Or when a friend asks for $200 to hold them over for 3 days till they get paid so they can pay the payday loan on time😢...But has their child in ballet classes and choir practices (not free) i want to (and have) hand them a dave ramsey financial book. (u can guess how that went over).

It’s a very tough situation when you see these mistakes knowing no one prepared us for it. Is it our collective responsibility to be brave and say, hey...chances are that annuity you purchased 10 years ago was a mistake? Or should we just mind our own business????
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livesoft
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by livesoft »

All the time.
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JakeyLee
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by JakeyLee »

Much more than I want, at this point. I volunteered years ago to help all incoming/new employees with education on their deferred compensation options (403b), employer sponsored insurance, etc.. I'm not a salesman. I show the countless options that are available. Thanks to the hard work of a handful of us "old timers" we have Vanguard, Fidelity, and a slew of insurance/annuity options. I show them calculators, growth charts, and provide resources.

Eventually, almost everyone of these employees asks the same thing: "what do you do, Jakeylee?" I explain risk profiles, low cost index funds, and point them to great resources (including here). You'd be shocked how many of them end up in high cost actively managed funds.. or insurance products. I'm talking about some real smart people here. *sigh* You can lead a horse to water, but you can't...
anon3838
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by anon3838 »

Hmmm...about one conversation every 18-24 months...

If someone else brings up personal finance, I will engage in the conversation. I never start that conversation, tho.
cnblure
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by cnblure »

Very little unless asked. But it can be hard to not say anything sometimes. The other day in a text group a few of my cousins were talking about using the forecasted government stimulus checks to buy marijuana ETFs because several seem be near 52 week lows. I'm not usually pushy or intrusive, but it took a lot for me to not forward a link to this site and a PDF version of 'If You Can."
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Fallible »

There's a big difference between talking and teaching. I can talk to friends or relatives about personal finances in general and it can go well - if I don't get into a teaching mode, where I'm now advising them. In effect, teaching/advising is essentially saying I know more than they do, that I am right and they are wrong. And you can guess how well that's going to play out with most people, no matter whether I'm right or wrong (or more likely somewhere in between). That's why I don't teach/advise, or try not to as it's terribly tempting at times.

Money is a hugely emotional topic with all of us. As WSJ columnist Jason Zweig wrote in his book, Your Money & Your Brain:
The 100 billion neurons that are packed into that three-pound clump of tissue between your ears can generate an emotional tornado when you think about money.
That's something to think about before trying to teach the subject.
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Abe »

Unfortunately, there is only so much you can do. Some people will not do what it takes. They want everything now, so they buy what they want on credit, usually not on very good terms. When I have talked to people about saving money so they can pay cash for whatever they want or need, they look at me like I'm crazy. As far as investing, there is not much point in discussing investing when they can't even get out of debt. :(
Slow and steady wins the race.
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ScoobyDoo
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by ScoobyDoo »

livesoft wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:01 pm All the time.
Do u ever get the eyeroll or get family members mumbling ‘know-itAll’? Or do they typically appreciate, believe, and follow your teachings????

And i guess that also depends on if you have a background in finance, no? I do not, therefore i am reluctant to say much.
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ScoobyDoo
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by ScoobyDoo »

anon3838 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm Hmmm...about one conversation every 18-24 months...

If someone else brings up personal finance, I will engage in the conversation. I never start that conversation, tho.
Was this a learned behavior due to disagreements???
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by FelixTheCat »

I talk all of the time about saving and investing. It falls on deaf ears 99.9999% of the time.
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livesoft
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by livesoft »

ScoobyDoo wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:54 pmDo u ever get the eyeroll or get family members mumbling ‘know-itAll’? Or do they typically appreciate, believe, and follow your teachings????

And i guess that also depends on if you have a background in finance, no? I do not, therefore i am reluctant to say much.
I have no background in finance, but I have been using index funds for almost 40 years. I never put a hard sell on anybody, so I don't get any more eyerolls than I give. A number of my friends appreciate my advice as they have changed their ways and thanked me. I am not upset if they do something different, but a surprising number do use index funds.
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WanderingPothos
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by WanderingPothos »

All the time...to select people. I can gauge level of interest or openness in a few sentences. I also talk to learn, I don't know everything.
sport
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by sport »

I have found that people don't want to know. I had one professional friend who was complaining about his advisor. So, I took him to a local Bogleheads meeting. I explained the basic concepts to him. He just went to another advisor as bad as the first one.

I was on the 401k committee for my employer. The plan had an attorney from a large firm set up the rules for choosing which funds would be in the plan. The attorney specified choosing funds with high Morningstar "star ratings". As we know, those only reflect past performance. There were no requirements or even preferences for low cost funds. I knew that this was not the way to select investments, and I said so. However, I was just an engineer with no financial credentials. Who was I to contradict the big shot attorney? So, we chose funds as instructed, and when they performed poorly, we dropped them and changed to other funds. :oops:

The only people who ever paid any attention to what I told them were my children and one co-worker. They have all been successful investors.
MarkBarb
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by MarkBarb »

I have a group of friends that meets semi-regularly to discuss financial topics. The less experienced generally learn from the more experienced, but I think we all learn from the discussions.

Outside of that group, I don't volunteer information. I get asked questions fairly frequently. I usually respond by presenting various viewpoints and saying what I do (if it is relevant).

As an example, one friend ask what the least risky fund in her 401(k) was. I directed her to the right resource to find that out but didn't say anything about whether she should move to that fund or not. She didn't ask and it wasn't my place to tell her.

I had another friend ask whether they should be buying stocks right now because they are "cheap". I responded by saying that there are a lot of people that see this as a buying opportunity. There are also a lot of people that think you should sell now because it is going to get much worse. I stick with my asset allocation and don't buy or sell in anticipation of future market moods. I prefer that approach because I'm effectively telling what I think by saying what I'm doing, but I'm presenting a range of views rather than telling them what they should do.
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

I talk different amounts with different people

I do not interfere or provide unsolicited advice to anyone. When someone asks for it, I will share.

My spouse and I talk as needed - we are on the same page, although I manage it. My close friend asks my counsel, so I advice. I am non committal and and aloof with everyone else. I don't butt into their business, I don't talk about mine.

Money, religion, and politics gets the same treatment in my life.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Many in my neighborhood have their advisors. They have relayed the advice their advisors had given them: Don't do anything, stay the course. I think that is good for them, as they know their financial position way better than I do.

A couple have some annuities, ideal for times like these I suppose.

They sometimes ask what I am doing, they all know I am a DIYer. I have told them DW and I have a retirement portfolio that is 50 equities and 50% bonds. Currently we are 52.2% bonds and 47.8 equities. If I sold some shares of our bond funds, I tell them I am rebalancing, which, very honestly, that is what I have been doing.

Since the neighbors have their advisors, I figure they are happy., so other than remarking about where the market ends on one day or another, not much to discuss.

I do have one neighbor who is trying to market time, he is mostly out of the market at the moment, last I heard. When he retired he asked me what I would do if I had received a lump-sum payout of his pension. I told him to put 50% in Total Stock Market Index mutual fund or ETF, and put the other 50% in a bond mutual fund or ETF. This advice was given when he retired in February of 2019. He did not take the advice, instead he darts into and out of the market when he thinks his timing is right. No idea where he is at right now, so far as his investments.

Honestly I think it is mostly a waste of my time to discuss such things with any of them. But, I share what DW and I are doing, without numbers, of course.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by rbaldini »

Only on Bogleheads.org
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by retired@50 »

I bring it up, or answer questions pretty frequently. Some family and friends listen, some don't. I try not to impose my will, but I have given rewards to nieces and nephews for doing the right thing. It has made a positive impact and I've been thanked many times.

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lowndes
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by lowndes »

Zero in person. I read on here but do not post much.
anon3838
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by anon3838 »

ScoobyDoo wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:55 pm
anon3838 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm Hmmm...about one conversation every 18-24 months...

If someone else brings up personal finance, I will engage in the conversation. I never start that conversation, tho.
Was this a learned behavior due to disagreements???
No, not at all. I have a general belief that when someone is interested in my opinion, they will ask me for it. It turns out that I'm rarely asked for my opinion...and I'm perfectly ok with that. :beer
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Will do good
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Will do good »

Only to few friends that's already interested in finances and they are all doing well.
I do try to teach and explain BH methods to 2 of our 3 kids, seems like some stuff is sticking.
BrownEyedGirl_27
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by BrownEyedGirl_27 »

We talk about finances with a couple who are doing well financially and are investing. They're roughly our age with a higher income. Everything from taxes to investments to bank account bonus churning. We've talked to them about asset allocation and buying stocks on sale due to the market downturn. I really enjoy talking about it with them and (I think) have encouraged them to finish funding her Roth IRA for this year.

I have shared some thoughts with my sister and brother-in-law about money, but since I have graduated from the Dave Ramsey mindset and into the Boglehead way, some of what we used to talk about isn't really relevant for me anymore. Sister-in-law seems to think that investing is term life insurance $1M policies, which I opined to them that it is good to have of course when you have young children but that I do not view it as an investment. I don't think having to die to actually get a nice chunk of money counts; it's a bit morbid. Haha

My dad and I talk about finances at least twice a year and I think he is proud of us as a young married couple. He's not the kind of person to get sentimental but his silence is usually a sign of approval of our lifestyle. He was very helpful to us in getting started with index fund investing and I am grateful that he had sense to buy more and not sell during the 2008 crisis. I know my asset allocation is right because when the market tanked this month I got excited.

When we have kids we will educate them on these important things early on. I want them to see that we have good financial habits and how to use credit as a tool, not a crutch. Grateful for this forum and for the friends I've made here!
"Your mind has a mind of its own. At the very moment when you are most convinced of your own rationality, you may be feeling rather than thinking your way toward a decision.” | Jason Zweig
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by flaccidsteele »

ScoobyDoo wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 am It’s a very tough situation when you see these mistakes knowing no one prepared us for it. Is it our collective responsibility to be brave and say, hey...chances are that annuity you purchased 10 years ago was a mistake? Or should we just mind our own business????
Do you like to be “taught” about religion when you didn’t ask for it? How about politics?
The US market always recovers. It’s never different this time. Retired in my 40s. Investing is a simple game of rinse and repeat
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Sandtrap »

Always with DW
Sometimes with only a few friends that are bogleheads, and only if asked.
Rarely with others, if so, only if asked, then at their level of comprehension.

There are many fellow seniors who brag about their wealth and their financial advisors and wealth managers, and investments. . . but not their level of debt, reverse mortgages, maxed out HELOC's, etc.

Human's are interesting.

j🌺
Last edited by Sandtrap on Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Watty »

I gave my three nieces and nephews the "Bogleheads Guide to Investing" one year for Christmas when they were in their early 20's. They are in various parts of the country and we are not close but I heard back from my brother(their Dad) a couple of years later that one of them was asking him about 401k accounts and index funds after looking at the book.

I loaned my copy of that book to a neighbor who was thinking about retiring when he was asking me about my retirement planning. I don't know if the read it or not but he is still with his financial advisor.
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Makaveli »

My friends now know me as the "investment guy" so quite often, especially in the times we find ourselves. I have also helped my parents for the past 5 years but received a call that they are going to go with an 1% AUM FA this week. They're aware of the cons (and alternative hourly based options) but would like hands-on assistance while transitioning into retirement. They're adults so I said my peace and left it at that.
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by ignition »

I advise my parents and my brother who mostly listen. My parents have about half in index funds, half with a financial adviser. The index funds are crushing the funds of the adviser. Sometimes I talk about it at work when someone else brings it up. Of course I mostly get blank stares there as everyone is scared of the stock market or is day trading :D.
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by stoptothink »

Not at all, unless I am approached. I am basically managing my parent's finances at this point and I've helped maybe 1/3 of my staff members set up their portfolios.
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by geerhardusvos »

If I am in any sort of mentoring situation or talking about life with people I care about, money is one of the legs of the stool of life, so it comes up quite a bit and if they are comfortable diving in, we will go as deep as they want to
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by Normchad »

I try to avoid doing it where I can.

I like my money, and I like my relationships. But I know money is the best way to destroy relationships. And I'd rather have 100 friends than 100 dollars.

These feelings lead me to live a quasi-stealth-wealth lifestyle. I really don't want people knowing what I have, and I don't think it' any of their business. On the other hand, what they have, and what they do is none of my business either.

So I like to just avoid all of that. And a big part of my thinking is that I don't want for people to eventually blame their financial hardship on me. I may give them advice that blows up in their face. Or they might misunderstand it, or misapply it. In all cases, I don't want them to feel like I did them wrong, and I don't want to feel like I had any part in their misfortune.

It does come up from time to time though with a very small number of people. In every case, I frame every discussion with "I'll tell you what I do, and why I do it. But it doesn't mean it's right for you......"

I play in decently large poker games and tournaments where this type of stuff comes up. So two guys start talking, and usually one or both of them is completely wrong. I just silently ignore it all; I know that's hard for a lot of people to do. But it's not my job, or goal in life, to keep people from being wrong. Everybody has the right to be as wrong as they want to be; it's not my problem.

Then again, I am probably a "turbo idiot"; so any financial advice/education I could offer may be completely wrong and harmful to whoever hears it. So I'll keep quiet.
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by J295 »

Only when I’m asked. Otherwise myob.
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by windaar »

Rarely. The colleagues who talk about finances at work all seem to be market timers, getting into “hot” stocks and funds and bailing out of sinking ones. So in other words buy high sell low. One is day trading but has lost a lot and has stopped yammering about that. These are intelligent people with advanced degrees, albeit not in finance! With my relatives I feel as if I should mind my own business, if I gave advice and they “lost money” I’d be blamed. Oh well!
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ScoobyDoo
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by ScoobyDoo »

flaccidsteele wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:08 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 am It’s a very tough situation when you see these mistakes knowing no one prepared us for it. Is it our collective responsibility to be brave and say, hey...chances are that annuity you purchased 10 years ago was a mistake? Or should we just mind our own business????
Do you like to be “taught” about religion when you didn’t ask for it? How about politics?
Actually I am that person that likes to hear what people think and how they articulate it. Im very open minded and not afraid of dissenting opinions. So yeah, i get your ‘taught’ emphasis but I’m that kid that will over look someone appearing to try to ‘teach me’ (might just be a perception u know?). Reason? Because I know I am not always right and I like to reason my way through life...but I also know many people are not like me :-)
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by bigfry »

I occasionally will talk with colleagues about investing. They are all stock-pickers and I sometimes will chime in about indexing but usually I keep it to myself. My dad is also a boglehead and frequent reader of these forums so he is the only person I talk about investing/finances with often (other than my wife).
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ScoobyDoo
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by ScoobyDoo »

ignition wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:14 pm I advise my parents and my brother who mostly listen. My parents have about half in index funds, half with a financial adviser. The index funds are crushing the funds of the adviser. Sometimes I talk about it at work when someone else brings it up. Of course I mostly get blank stares there as everyone is scared of the stock market or is day trading :D.
But are they still now???? :shock:
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by flaccidsteele »

ScoobyDoo wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:27 pm
flaccidsteele wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:08 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 am It’s a very tough situation when you see these mistakes knowing no one prepared us for it. Is it our collective responsibility to be brave and say, hey...chances are that annuity you purchased 10 years ago was a mistake? Or should we just mind our own business????
Do you like to be “taught” about religion when you didn’t ask for it? How about politics?
Actually I am that person that likes to hear what people think and how they articulate it. Im very open minded and not afraid of dissenting opinions. So yeah, i get your ‘taught’ emphasis but I’m that kid that will over look someone appearing to try to ‘teach me’ (might just be a perception u know?). Reason? Because I know I am not always right and I like to reason my way through life...but I also know many people are not like me :-)
If a person likes something they would seek it out

How many times do you ask others to teach you about religion or politics?

And if you “also know many people are not like me” then you’ve already answered your original question
The US market always recovers. It’s never different this time. Retired in my 40s. Investing is a simple game of rinse and repeat
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Re: How much (or little) do u talk to/teach others about finances

Post by deltaneutral83 »

I encourage people to pay off their consumer debt (cars especially) and throw any extra money they have toward their mortgage and if able, to max our their 401k in an S&P fund. When we start talking about "total stock market index fund...asset allocation...tax loss harvesting...risk premium...Roth IRA...value tilt" we lose them. Bottom line, paying down debt is something people mechanically know how to do and their 401k is already setup with their employer so I start out with these. I typically stop in my tracks when people admit they have credit card debt. They likely aren't mechanically or behaviorally ready to take control of their finances.
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