There Is No Gold

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watchnerd
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There Is No Gold

Post by watchnerd » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:23 pm

"If you think gold GC00, -1.349% has jumped about 10% in a couple of days to $1,638 an ounce, the official price quoted on Wall Street, think again.

The real price? Nearer $1,800. If you can get it.

“There’s no gold,” says Josh Strauss, partner at money manager Pekin Hardy in Chicago (and a bullion fan). “There’s no gold. There’s roughly a 10% premium to purchase physical gold for delivery. Usually it’s like 2%. I can buy a one ounce American Eagle for $1,800,” said Josh Strauss. “$1,800!”


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/there ... =bigcharts
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Thesaints
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Thesaints » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:28 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:23 pm
"If you think gold GC00, -1.349% has jumped about 10% in a couple of days to $1,638 an ounce, the official price quoted on Wall Street, think again.

The real price? Nearer $1,800. If you can get it.

“There’s no gold,” says Josh Strauss, partner at money manager Pekin Hardy in Chicago (and a bullion fan). “There’s no gold. There’s roughly a 10% premium to purchase physical gold for delivery. Usually it’s like 2%. I can buy a one ounce American Eagle for $1,800,” said Josh Strauss. “$1,800!”


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/there ... =bigcharts
I heard the corona virus is like those plastic eating bacteria: soon they will have erased the entire world stash. Hope at Ft. Knox they have virus proof air filters in the caveau, although I also heard there is not an ounce of gold left there as well.

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firebirdparts
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by firebirdparts » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:26 pm

I saw that. I wondered How is the price not moving more?
A fool and your money are soon partners

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:29 pm

In Moscow sausage only costs a ruble.

But there is no sausage.

PJW

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watchnerd
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by watchnerd » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:32 pm

firebirdparts wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:26 pm
I saw that. I wondered How is the price not moving more?
Yeah, I had the same thought....why is this not showing up in the electronic gold market?

Arbitrage opportunity?
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unclescrooge
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by unclescrooge » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:09 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:29 pm
In Moscow sausage only costs a ruble.

But there is no sausage.

PJW
In Los Angeles there is no disinfecting wipes...

guyinlaw
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by guyinlaw » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:18 pm

Yes.. Much of gold bars on Kitco.com shows as sold out.. Right now they only show 100 oz and 400 oz bars available..

https://online.kitco.com/buy/gold-silver.html

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by luckyducky99 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm

The zombie-apocalypse goldbugs don't want to buy useless promises written on paper.

They want the real deal, and they're willing to pay for it.

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watchnerd
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by watchnerd » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:18 pm

luckyducky99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm
The zombie-apocalypse goldbugs don't want to buy useless promises written on paper.

They want the real deal, and they're willing to pay for it.
Fascinating.
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mroe800
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by mroe800 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:20 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:18 pm
luckyducky99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm
The zombie-apocalypse goldbugs don't want to buy useless promises written on paper.

They want the real deal, and they're willing to pay for it.
Fascinating.
The common saying in those circles is “if you can’t hold it, you don’t own it” or something similar.

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watchnerd
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by watchnerd » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:32 pm

mroe800 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:20 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:18 pm
luckyducky99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm
The zombie-apocalypse goldbugs don't want to buy useless promises written on paper.

They want the real deal, and they're willing to pay for it.
Fascinating.
The common saying in those circles is “if you can’t hold it, you don’t own it” or something similar.
It's not their desire to own they physical stuff that I find too surprising.

It's that they're willing to pay an extra 10% to own it right now, as opposed to at some point in the future.

They must think this really is the end...right now.
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mroe800
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by mroe800 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:39 pm

Premiums are far above 10% at this point.

HenryPorter
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by HenryPorter » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:07 am

mroe800 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:39 pm
Premiums are far above 10% at this point.
Yeah, something does not add up. I periodically look at Apmex price quotes for gold Eagles. The premiums on buying a few was not that far below 10% the past months. Not even sure why the premiums are even merited talking about compared to spot. Right now, silver spot is less than $14 but the big dealers are getting $24 for silver Eagles. That is a $10 premium over spot, about a 70% premium. Spot price means nothing except when it comes time to want to sell back to a coin dealer. The premium spread you don't come close to getting back unless spot has gone up a lot after you bought.

EDIT: I looked up a gold purchase I did in late 2014 from Apmex. The premium was about 12.2% for a half ounce Eagle. Current premium for a half ounce gold Eagle at Apmex is about 14%. The premium for gold has not gone too astray.

Thesaints
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Thesaints » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:25 am

HenryPorter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:07 am
mroe800 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:39 pm
Premiums are far above 10% at this point.
Yeah, something does not add up. I periodically look at Apmex price quotes for gold Eagles. The premiums on buying a few was not that far below 10% the past months. Not even sure why the premiums are even merited talking about compared to spot. Right now, silver spot is less than $14 but the big dealers are getting $24 for silver Eagles. That is a $10 premium over spot, about a 70% premium. Spot price means nothing except when it comes time to want to sell back to a coin dealer. The premium spread you don't come close to getting back unless spot has gone up a lot after you bought.
Two possible explanations:
a) An international conspiracy. Someone has hoarded all the gold and the LME only quotes a meaningless price for "paper" silver, which does not actually exist.

b) Price of silver is correct. Price of silver eagles is driven up by retail demand. In other words, small, unsophisticated, investors are crowding the silver eagle market, which is all they have access to, with their scarce funds.

3504PIR
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by 3504PIR » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 am

And you can’t even eat gold, at least with any nutritional value.

shelanman
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by shelanman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:43 am

Actual coin has traded at a premium often.

I remember in 2007, you could buy bags of "junk silver" (pre-1964 quarters/dimes) for less than melt value. Then, in 2008, suddenly the same dealer who had previously offered junk silver for sale below melt was now offering *buy* prices for Silver Eagles a good $2 above melt, and was selling at $5.5 above.

High premia persisted longer than my interest in the market.

It doesn't surprise me, though. If you're selling your stocks and bonds now to buy gold and silver -- especially as a retail investor -- it won't be because you think that the metals are going to outperform in the near term. It'll be because you're concerned that the entire financial system will collapse.

In an environment like that, an electronic database record saying that you own some gold isn't going to have value. Only the actual physical object will. So, folks are willing to pay more to own gold than to own a database record that says they own gold. Since you can't directly convert the electronic gold into actual gold (without waiting a long time and also paying substantial fees), the price of the two drift apart.

This actually happens in a lot of commodity markets -- where they become divorced from the physical market.

I got in to home coffee roasting for a time a few years ago. Did you know that coffee is traded on mercantile exchanges just like gold? It's all traded by grade. Your contract will be for so many pounds of specialty grade coffee delivered. Of course, there are actual giant sacks of coffee behind those contracts (for some percentage of the contracts, anyway). These giant sacks of coffee occasionally do get moved from one warehouse to another when the market goes sufficiently awry that someone opts to take delivery rather than close out a contract at an unreasonable discount. But nobody ever wants to actually roast or brew that coffee. It's awful. It meets the contractual definition of specialty coffee -- but it isn't in any way a substitute for coffee.

My unroasted bean supplier once bought one of those contracts and took delivery just for funsies -- and so offered for sale 1- and 2-pound bags of this stuff in addition to their regular offerings. They wouldn't sell more than 2 pounds at a time because, as they said, it's absolutely horrid and you won't like it -- but buy some just to see how unlike actual specialty coffee the stuff is. The "futures market" coffee sold for 40% less than their real coffees.

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watchnerd
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by watchnerd » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:50 am

3504PIR wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 am
And you can’t even eat gold, at least with any nutritional value.
But you can use it as a TP substitute.
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MoneyMarathon
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by MoneyMarathon » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:50 am

watchnerd wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:23 pm
"If you think gold GC00, -1.349% has jumped about 10% in a couple of days to $1,638 an ounce, the official price quoted on Wall Street, think again.

The real price? Nearer $1,800. If you can get it.

“There’s no gold,” says Josh Strauss, partner at money manager Pekin Hardy in Chicago (and a bullion fan). “There’s no gold. There’s roughly a 10% premium to purchase physical gold for delivery. Usually it’s like 2%. I can buy a one ounce American Eagle for $1,800,” said Josh Strauss. “$1,800!”


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/there ... =bigcharts
Ironically, people could have made bank rebalancing from physical coins instead of ETFs, for a little sweat equity.

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watchnerd
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by watchnerd » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:52 am

shelanman wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:43 am
Actual coin has traded at a premium often.

I remember in 2007, you could buy bags of "junk silver" (pre-1964 quarters/dimes) for less than melt value. Then, in 2008, suddenly the same dealer who had previously offered junk silver for sale below melt was now offering *buy* prices for Silver Eagles a good $2 above melt, and was selling at $5.5 above.

High premia persisted longer than my interest in the market.

It doesn't surprise me, though. If you're selling your stocks and bonds now to buy gold and silver -- especially as a retail investor -- it won't be because you think that the metals are going to outperform in the near term. It'll be because you're concerned that the entire financial system will collapse.

In an environment like that, an electronic database record saying that you own some gold isn't going to have value. Only the actual physical object will. So, folks are willing to pay more to own gold than to own a database record that says they own gold. Since you can't directly convert the electronic gold into actual gold (without waiting a long time and also paying substantial fees), the price of the two drift apart.

This actually happens in a lot of commodity markets -- where they become divorced from the physical market.

I got in to home coffee roasting for a time a few years ago. Did you know that coffee is traded on mercantile exchanges just like gold? It's all traded by grade. Your contract will be for so many pounds of specialty grade coffee delivered. Of course, there are actual giant sacks of coffee behind those contracts (for some percentage of the contracts, anyway). These giant sacks of coffee occasionally do get moved from one warehouse to another when the market goes sufficiently awry that someone opts to take delivery rather than close out a contract at an unreasonable discount. But nobody ever wants to actually roast or brew that coffee. It's awful. It meets the contractual definition of specialty coffee -- but it isn't in any way a substitute for coffee.

My unroasted bean supplier once bought one of those contracts and took delivery just for funsies -- and so offered for sale 1- and 2-pound bags of this stuff in addition to their regular offerings. They wouldn't sell more than 2 pounds at a time because, as they said, it's absolutely horrid and you won't like it -- but buy some just to see how unlike actual specialty coffee the stuff is. The "futures market" coffee sold for 40% less than their real coffees.
So if the specialty coffee was horrid and it was the top grade, what are the other grades used for?

For flavorings or something?
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3504PIR
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by 3504PIR » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:54 am

watchnerd wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:50 am
3504PIR wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 am
And you can’t even eat gold, at least with any nutritional value.
But you can use it as a TP substitute.
Hadn’t thought of that! And baller too!

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by shelanman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:06 am

watchnerd wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:52 am

So if the specialty coffee was horrid and it was the top grade, what are the other grades used for?

For flavorings or something?
In order to qualify as Specialty coffee, the coffee has to be 100% Arabica, have less than a certain fraction of "defects" per pound (things like beans eaten by bugs, sours (basically, rotten), fungus, mold, etc.), and have an average bean size in a certain range.

The grades have to do with the physical characteristics of the beans (size, defect count) -- but not freshness (other than that they can't have started to rot or be molded) or flavor profile or anything. My understanding is that the coffee that ends up in the financial-district warehouses largely is bad because it is really old, and just a mishmash blend of whatever was cheapest (within grade) when it was assembled, rather than having been carefully blended for flavor profile.

I never did buy the "financial coffee", so I can't tell you exactly what was wrong with it. I just remember reading about it and finding the idea very interesting. It's been years now, and the dealer isn't still selling it, so I can only go from my memory, rather than linking you to their description.

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watchnerd
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by watchnerd » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:17 am

shelanman wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:06 am
watchnerd wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:52 am

So if the specialty coffee was horrid and it was the top grade, what are the other grades used for?

For flavorings or something?
In order to qualify as Specialty coffee, the coffee has to be 100% Arabica, have less than a certain fraction of "defects" per pound (things like beans eaten by bugs, sours (basically, rotten), fungus, mold, etc.), and have an average bean size in a certain range.

The grades have to do with the physical characteristics of the beans (size, defect count) -- but not freshness (other than that they can't have started to rot or be molded) or flavor profile or anything. My understanding is that the coffee that ends up in the financial-district warehouses largely is bad because it is really old, and just a mishmash blend of whatever was cheapest (within grade) when it was assembled, rather than having been carefully blended for flavor profile.

I never did buy the "financial coffee", so I can't tell you exactly what was wrong with it. I just remember reading about it and finding the idea very interesting. It's been years now, and the dealer isn't still selling it, so I can only go from my memory, rather than linking you to their description.
That's nuts.

Now I'm wondering about the financial grades of pork bellies, beef sides, orange juice, etc.
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shelanman
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by shelanman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:23 am

watchnerd wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:17 am
That's nuts.

Now I'm wondering about the financial grades of pork bellies, beef sides, orange juice, etc.
I wonder too. I don't know anything about those markets -- but it is a good reminder that the financial markets are only a proxy for the real world -- and sometimes a fairly inaccurate proxy.

Thesaints
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Thesaints » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:44 am

Gold ain't coffee beans. If you want to buy 10 bars, you'll find it at the LME price.
If you want to buy 1 ozt. you'll have to fend off the crowd of crazed small buyers.

Seasonal
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Seasonal » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:52 am

watchnerd wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:18 pm
luckyducky99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm
The zombie-apocalypse goldbugs don't want to buy useless promises written on paper.

They want the real deal, and they're willing to pay for it.
Fascinating.
Useless promises written on paper will sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Valuethinker » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:47 am

Seasonal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:52 am

Useless promises written on paper will sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
Dr Strangelove?

Chip
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Chip » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:53 am

I have a single Krugerrand (gift from my father in the 80s) that I'd love to sell. Given the lockdowns, etc., what would those of you with experience recommend as a method to sell it?

I seem to have plenty of capital losses to absorb the gain. :oops:

Seasonal
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Seasonal » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:01 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:47 am
Seasonal wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:52 am

Useless promises written on paper will sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
Dr Strangelove?
https://www.quotes.net/mquote/26286

camaro327
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by camaro327 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:08 am

Chip wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:53 am
I have a single Krugerrand (gift from my father in the 80s) that I'd love to sell. Given the lockdowns, etc., what would those of you with experience recommend as a method to sell it?

I seem to have plenty of capital losses to absorb the gain. :oops:
I would look for a local dealer once they are open for business. I doubt the price is going to fall much until some of the unknowns/risk is lowered by seeing positive strides against the virus.

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Watty
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Watty » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:21 am

firebirdparts wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:26 pm
I saw that. I wondered How is the price not moving more?
It is kinda hard for the workers that make gold bullion coins to make them when they are working from home.

As the pandemic goes on there will be a lot of things that people will be paying a premium for because the factories that make them are shut down.
Last edited by Watty on Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by fredflinstone » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:54 am

Chip wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:53 am
I have a single Krugerrand (gift from my father in the 80s) that I'd love to sell. Given the lockdowns, etc., what would those of you with experience recommend as a method to sell it?

I seem to have plenty of capital losses to absorb the gain. :oops:
Gold is considered a collectible and is subject to a different (higher) tax rate than capital gains. I may be mistaken, but I do not think you can use gold profits to offset capital losses.

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Kenkat
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Kenkat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:01 am

Spot price of gold and silver has bounced back quite a bit over the past week or so.

I think what occurred is a combination of selling of non-physical gold and silver and demand for physical metals due to the crisis. In other words, people wanted out of precious metals financial instruments and in to the real thing.

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fredflinstone
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by fredflinstone » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:04 am

IAU, SGOL, OUNZ, and GLD are trusts backed by physical gold. In the long term their value should reflect their underlying assets. If the ETFs are trading at a ~10 percent discount to physical gold, it likely reflects a short-term preference for physical bullion vis-a-vis non-physical bullion that will soon dissipate.

This seems like one of those weird glitches in the matrix that likely won't last long. If anyone owns physical gold bullion, I think it would be a good time to sell it and replace it with one of the ETFs.

james22
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by james22 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:16 am

Maybe Kyle Bass can finally find a buyer for his nickels?

http://jpkoning.blogspot.com/2019/05/ky ... l-bet.html

Chip
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Chip » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:26 am

fredflinstone wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:54 am
Gold is considered a collectible and is subject to a different (higher) tax rate than capital gains. I may be mistaken, but I do not think you can use gold profits to offset capital losses.
I believe you're mistaken. Collectibles are taxed as capital gains, but ordinary income rates apply, up to a maximum tax rate of 28%. As a result, capital losses can offset capital gains from collectibles. It's similar to the way depreciation recapture is taxed.

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fredflinstone
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by fredflinstone » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:25 am

Chip wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:26 am
fredflinstone wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:54 am
Gold is considered a collectible and is subject to a different (higher) tax rate than capital gains. I may be mistaken, but I do not think you can use gold profits to offset capital losses.
I believe you're mistaken. Collectibles are taxed as capital gains, but ordinary income rates apply, up to a maximum tax rate of 28%. As a result, capital losses can offset capital gains from collectibles. It's similar to the way depreciation recapture is taxed.
Oh OK. Sorry for the error.

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by DB2 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:47 am

fredflinstone wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:04 am
IAU, SGOL, OUNZ, and GLD are trusts backed by physical gold. In the long term their value should reflect their underlying assets. If the ETFs are trading at a ~10 percent discount to physical gold, it likely reflects a short-term preference for physical bullion vis-a-vis non-physical bullion that will soon dissipate.

This seems like one of those weird glitches in the matrix that likely won't last long. If anyone owns physical gold bullion, I think it would be a good time to sell it and replace it with one of the ETFs.
I prefer and use AAAU Perth Mint (backed by Australian Govt and one can get delivery of their gold for a fee).

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by batrleby » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:29 am

HenryPorter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:07 am
mroe800 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:39 pm
Premiums are far above 10% at this point.
The premiums on buying a few was not that far below 10% the past months.
Just pulled up data from the Internet Wayback Machine. (December 2019)

Actually it was about 4%. Apmex was selling single Gold Eagles for $65 markup above spot, 10-19 for $60, 100-199 for $50
Now their markup for the same coin is single $165 markup above spot, 10-19 for $160, and 100-199 for $150 above spot.

a nice round $100 per oz. 'vigourish'

and that's for 'pre-orders' (i.e. they're out of stock currently).

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Maverick3320 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:37 am

Someone explain the gold hoarding to me.

From what I understand, if the world has come to the point where gold is being used as THE currency, someone bigger and badder is just going to come along and kill you and take it.

james22
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by james22 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:30 pm

If you own gold, you likely own lead too.

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Maverick3320 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:37 pm

james22 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:30 pm
If you own gold, you likely own lead too.
Good quote, but you're going to need a lot of lead (and training) if it ever comes to that point.

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by firebirdparts » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:37 pm

Maverick3320 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:37 am
Someone explain the gold hoarding to me.
In the past, gold has done a nice job at times. Some times. For example, it was $237 in 1970, and $1600 in 1979 (inflation adjusted numbers here) you've noticed it's also $1600 now, so it's just kept up with inflation overall, but with big swings in between.

So the people who are buying it now are hoping it'll be like it was in the 1970's, not like it was, you know, the rest of the time.

Are they right? maybe. We'll see.

I realize your question was just fluff, but that's the answer. personally I've never known anybody personally that was set on fire by a Pinto, so I kind of ignore all these predictions about how you're going to die.
A fool and your money are soon partners

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whodidntante
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by whodidntante » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:49 pm

Conversely, oil is selling for significant discounts to futures pricing. At least for now.

technovelist
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by technovelist » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:11 pm

3504PIR wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 am
And you can’t even eat gold, at least with any nutritional value.
Can you eat stocks or bonds?
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by technovelist » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:13 pm

MoneyMarathon wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:50 am
watchnerd wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:23 pm
"If you think gold GC00, -1.349% has jumped about 10% in a couple of days to $1,638 an ounce, the official price quoted on Wall Street, think again.

The real price? Nearer $1,800. If you can get it.

“There’s no gold,” says Josh Strauss, partner at money manager Pekin Hardy in Chicago (and a bullion fan). “There’s no gold. There’s roughly a 10% premium to purchase physical gold for delivery. Usually it’s like 2%. I can buy a one ounce American Eagle for $1,800,” said Josh Strauss. “$1,800!”


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/there ... =bigcharts
Ironically, people could have made bank rebalancing from physical coins instead of ETFs, for a little sweat equity.
No, the spreads are insane. Normally the bid/ask spread for gold coins is about 2 or 3%. Right now it's over 10%.
And the dealers are mostly sold out even with those big spreads.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

technovelist
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by technovelist » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:17 pm

Maverick3320 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:37 am
Someone explain the gold hoarding to me.

From what I understand, if the world has come to the point where gold is being used as THE currency, someone bigger and badder is just going to come along and kill you and take it.
The purpose of holding gold is not for use during a monetary crisis.
The purpose is to carry wealth to the other side of the crisis and then exchange it for the new currency.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

technovelist
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by technovelist » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:18 pm

firebirdparts wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:37 pm
Maverick3320 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:37 am
Someone explain the gold hoarding to me.
In the past, gold has done a nice job at times. Some times. For example, it was $237 in 1970, and $1600 in 1979 (inflation adjusted numbers here) you've noticed it's also $1600 now, so it's just kept up with inflation overall, but with big swings in between.

So the people who are buying it now are hoping it'll be like it was in the 1970's, not like it was, you know, the rest of the time.

Are they right? maybe. We'll see.

I realize your question was just fluff, but that's the answer. personally I've never known anybody personally that was set on fire by a Pinto, so I kind of ignore all these predictions about how you're going to die.
As part of the Permanent Portfolio it has reduced variability and increased safe withdrawal rates.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by firebirdparts » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:22 pm

technovelist wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:18 pm
firebirdparts wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:37 pm
Maverick3320 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:37 am
Someone explain the gold hoarding to me.
In the past, gold has done a nice job at times. Some times. For example, it was $237 in 1970, and $1600 in 1979 (inflation adjusted numbers here) you've noticed it's also $1600 now, so it's just kept up with inflation overall, but with big swings in between.

So the people who are buying it now are hoping it'll be like it was in the 1970's, not like it was, you know, the rest of the time.

Are they right? maybe. We'll see.

I realize your question was just fluff, but that's the answer. personally I've never known anybody personally that was set on fire by a Pinto, so I kind of ignore all these predictions about how you're going to die.
As part of the Permanent Portfolio it has reduced variability and increased safe withdrawal rates.
It might do it again. We'll see.
A fool and your money are soon partners

nigel_ht
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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by nigel_ht » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:25 pm

firebirdparts wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:37 pm
Maverick3320 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:37 am
Someone explain the gold hoarding to me.
In the past, gold has done a nice job at times. Some times. For example, it was $237 in 1970, and $1600 in 1979 (inflation adjusted numbers here) you've noticed it's also $1600 now, so it's just kept up with inflation overall, but with big swings in between.

So the people who are buying it now are hoping it'll be like it was in the 1970's, not like it was, you know, the rest of the time.

Are they right? maybe. We'll see.
I have a little gold just in case its like the 1970s again. I sure wouldn't want to go back to the 70s. Bellbottoms....brrr...

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Re: There Is No Gold

Post by Unladen_Swallow » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:55 pm

We are trying to buy a bit of gold each year. My spouse takes care of it. Last time we paid $1570 I think in January.

Unless our lives change significantly, we will buy gold again sometime late this year or early next yr. Regardless of price. We do not buy gold for appreciation or as an investment in the traditional sense. We buy it for security/just in case.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman

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