Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

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iceman68
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by iceman68 »

I'm a frequent reader but infrequent poster. I opened my first account with Vanguard in 1998--a Prime Money Market account in which to park some savings. As I've accumulated more assets, I've moved almost all of them to Vanguard. I can recall two problems with Vanguard over my 22 years with them:

1. In 1998, with my Prime Money Market account, it took Vanguard 3 tries to get my name spelled correctly on the checks they sent me (odd, since my name was spelled correctly on all mail I received from them).

2. At one point I owned a small-cap value ETF held in Vanguard Brokerage, and they messed up the amount of a distribution that I received. (I think this happened around 2009.) They did correct the error after I contacted them.

Overall, pretty minor stuff, and not bad for 22 years. I don't discount difficulties others have had, but to get the true story I think you need to look at third-party rankings that aggregate a lot of data. For example, the J.D. Power survey reported here has Vanguard ranked #1 in customer satisfaction, ahead of Schwab (#2) and Fidelity (#3):

https://www.financial-planning.com/list ... tisfaction

Does this mean that Vanguard necessarily has "better" customer service than Schwab and Fidelity? Of course not, but it does indicate that the narrative of Schwab and Fidelity having much better customer service than Vanguard is almost certainly false.
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Blues
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Blues »

No issues here...and hope it stays that way for years to come. (Knock on wood.)
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Doc »

We bailed on most of our Vanguard accounts early this year because of the poor customer service. To do this I converted our mutual fund to Vg ETFs and transferred the ETFs. We still have those Vg ETFs and are buying more.

For those of you that are investing money every month and/or reinverting dividends from one fund to another as a rebalncing method stay with Vanguard.
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sycamore
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by sycamore »

palanzo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:58 pm
ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:57 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:10 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.

Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
Vanguard is mutual, the profits go to the customers.
Could you please point us all to a document that details the profits that went to customers and how much?
Revenue - expenses = profit

I have no problem assuming that Vanguard complies with all regulations regarding profits. I don't think they're cheating or doing anything illegal.

But I'm also willing to believe that Vanguard managers (including or perhaps especially upper management) have very high expenses (in the forms of salaries, various incentive plans, etc.) that reduce the profit distributed to us shareholders.

Focusing on the profit part may be missing the forest for the trees.

To be honest, though, none of that really impacts my view of Vanguard. As long as they do a good job keeping fund expenses low and their operations working properly, I'll stick with them. So far so good - I have yet to experience a sub-par performance, unlike other BHers. Someday it'll happen to me. If it's bad enough, I'll vote with my assets and shift them to someone else.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by palanzo »

sycamore wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:27 am
palanzo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:58 pm
ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:57 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:10 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am

I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.

Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
Vanguard is mutual, the profits go to the customers.
Could you please point us all to a document that details the profits that went to customers and how much?
Revenue - expenses = profit

I have no problem assuming that Vanguard complies with all regulations regarding profits. I don't think they're cheating or doing anything illegal.

But I'm also willing to believe that Vanguard managers (including or perhaps especially upper management) have very high expenses (in the forms of salaries, various incentive plans, etc.) that reduce the profit distributed to us shareholders.

Focusing on the profit part may be missing the forest for the trees.

To be honest, though, none of that really impacts my view of Vanguard. As long as they do a good job keeping fund expenses low and their operations working properly, I'll stick with them. So far so good - I have yet to experience a sub-par performance, unlike other BHers. Someday it'll happen to me. If it's bad enough, I'll vote with my assets and shift them to someone else.
None of which explains where do the profits go?
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ruralavalon
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by ruralavalon »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:20 pm
ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:57 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:38 pm Vanguard seems to be having IT problems tonight (Friday November 27, 2020). Not only can't I view today's data in my accounts, but I can't even view a list of vanguard funds.
I just logged on using the app, no problems. I can see my accounts and holdings, and a list of Vanguard funds.

I just logged on using the website, could see my accounts and holdings, but could not see a list of Vanguard funds.
Since about 7:55 I've been able to see my accounts, and they've been updated to include today's data, but I still can't see a list of Vanguard funds. I'm on the website using my laptop. I don't use the app because my old eyes don't like trying to read the itty bitty screen on my iPhone.

Why do I have this sinking feeling that not only is Vanguard pushing us to use ETFs instead of mutual funds, but they're also quietly pushing us to use the app instead of the website?
I am 75 years old, use the Vanguard app on my Kindle Fire tablet and it is very readable. I seldom use our desktop computer to access the website anymore.
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FIREchief
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by FIREchief »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:54 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 am Thanks galawdawg!
So would you classify Vanguard as for-profit? or "almost for-profit"? or "almost non-profit"?
According to DiStefano's reporting, Vanguard officials acknowledge it is a private, for-profit company.
That sounds just like Fidelity! :P
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chinchin
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by chinchin »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:35 pm
palanzo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:51 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 pm It's true. I don't relate to most of the complaints. It just gets extremely repetitive. If people are that worked up and dissatisfied, it should be an easy choice. The community doesn't benefit from a multi-page argumentative thread every time someone can't log into Vanguard for 10 minutes.
Also assets under management are not a metric that reflects customer service. It seems that for you assets under management mitigates all issues.
I didn't suggest that assets under management directly reflected customer service excellence. Rather, I am suggesting that the continued growth in assets under management (which continues to outpace peer institutions) is strong evidence that the customer service is "good enough" for at least a significant number of individuals. Do you disagree?
You're conflating Vanguard the ETF seller with Vanguard Brokerage Services.
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Stinky
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Stinky »

FIREchief wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:43 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:54 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 am Thanks galawdawg!
So would you classify Vanguard as for-profit? or "almost for-profit"? or "almost non-profit"?
According to DiStefano's reporting, Vanguard officials acknowledge it is a private, for-profit company.
That sounds just like Fidelity! :P
Not quite like Fidelity, I don't think.

I assume that both Fidelity and Vanguard pay their employees well. After all salaries and other expenses are covered, the residual goes to the "shareholders".

Here's the difference. I believe that the shareholders of Fidelity are individuals, like the Johnson family. On the other hand, I believe that the shareholders of Vanguard are the underlying mutual funds.

So Fidelity's profits go to the Johnson family (and others), while Vanguard's go to the benefit of Vanguard's mutual fund holders (I think).
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calvin+hobbes
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by calvin+hobbes »

No problems with their mutual fund platform but I am about to give in and switch to their brokerage platform. My needs are very simple so hopefully none of the current features I enjoy will be lost.
JackoC
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by JackoC »

sycamore wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:27 am
palanzo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:58 pm
ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:57 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:10 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.
Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
Vanguard is mutual, the profits go to the customers.
Could you please point us all to a document that details the profits that went to customers and how much?
Revenue - expenses = profitI have no problem assuming that Vanguard complies with all regulations regarding profits. I don't think they're cheating or doing anything illegal.

But I'm also willing to believe that Vanguard managers (including or perhaps especially upper management) have very high expenses (in the forms of salaries, various incentive plans, etc.) that reduce the profit distributed to us shareholders.

To be honest, though, none of that really impacts my view of Vanguard.
Yes it seems the people questioning 'what Vanguard does with it's profits' are really talking about money that *would* be Vanguard *profit* if it wasn't paid to employees thus becoming a Vanguard *expense*. There's no basis on which to ask for 'proof' that Vanguard profits go to fund owners. There's no other place in Vanguard's structure for them to go. Again, the profit can be reduced by increasing employee compensation *expense*, that's not literally 'profits going to employees'.

That may seem overly technical but the exchange starts with the very technical complaint about comparing Vanguard and Credit Unions as both basically not for profits (there's again a separate nitpick about 'non profit' v 'not for profit', a CU is a 'not for profit'). Vanguard and mutual insurance companies are basically similar to not for profits like CU's, though are not technically the same. Each has no external shareholders.

I particularly agree with last statement though. It makes no direct difference to me who is a not for profit or what employees make at various financial providers. I want the highest deposit rates and lowest expense ratio's with tolerable customer service. In the MF/ETF space Vanguard still has a strong position in ER's especially fixed income type where it would actually be feasible for me to sell existing funds for better ones without realizing large capital gains (fortunately the equity funds I'm stuck in by cg's are mainly Vang ones with low ER's). As a place to park assets Vanguard is also OK in my situation, no specific problems. That could vary depending the person's exact relationship in terms of their service tiers, and what service they require. Also again if want to get max account opening bonuses, you'd move your assets around continuously and not to Vanguard.
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galawdawg
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by galawdawg »

Stinky wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:43 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:54 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 am Thanks galawdawg!
So would you classify Vanguard as for-profit? or "almost for-profit"? or "almost non-profit"?
According to DiStefano's reporting, Vanguard officials acknowledge it is a private, for-profit company.
That sounds just like Fidelity! :P
Not quite like Fidelity, I don't think.

I assume that both Fidelity and Vanguard pay their employees well. After all salaries and other expenses are covered, the residual goes to the "shareholders".

Here's the difference. I believe that the shareholders of Fidelity are individuals, like the Johnson family. On the other hand, I believe that the shareholders of Vanguard are the underlying mutual funds.

So Fidelity's profits go to the Johnson family (and others), while Vanguard's go to the benefit of Vanguard's mutual fund holders (I think).
Not to beat a dead horse, but I haven't yet seen anyone provide a link to, or a copy of, the annual report of the Vanguard Group or Vanguard Marketing Corporation (the companies owned by the funds) where we "shareholders" can see what the profits are for any given year and how they are distributed.

Do you think the Johnson Family is able to see the income and expenses of Fidelity, how executives are compensated, and how profits are calculated and distributed? I suspect so.

Are the shareholders of Schwab able to see that information as to Schwab? You bet: https://content.schwab.com/web/retail/p ... t_2019.pdf

How about E*TRADE? Yep: https://www.annualreports.com/Click/20628

Merrill Edge (Bank of America)? Yes indeed: http://investor.bankofamerica.com/annua ... ual_Report

Black Rock? Here it is: https://s24.q4cdn.com/856567660/files/d ... Report.pdf

So why is it that Vanguard appears to stand alone as the least transparent financial services company to those who own it? What reason does Vanguard have for refusing to disclose their financials to we, the "shareholders"? Who exactly looks at the expenses of Vanguard to ensure that profits flow to the funds, and thus to us "shareholders", rather than being redirected to expenses (particularly executive compensation)? Who's to say that Vanguard hasn't decided that 50%/75%/90% of all revenue which exceeds actual expenses shall be redirected to executive compensation and/or partnership plan dividends for certain executives and employees?

Those of us who knew Jack Bogle had no doubt that he actually put investors first and while he was at the helm of Vanguard, he acted always in our interest, not his own. Jack didn't just talk the talk, he walked the walk. I believe that is why we see on Bogleheads a culture of "trust" in Vanguard.

However, when it comes to our money, our investments, is blind trust wise? Is the current leadership of Vanguard responsive to "client-owners" like Jack was? Does the current leadership share Jack's values when it comes to actually putting the investor first (and not just as a marketing slogan)? Does the current leadership pass along all cost savings to the funds, and thus to us?

For those of us who question whether that is the case, why doesn't Vanguard simply disclose their financials? After all, aren't we the owners?? What does Vanguard have to hide? Since Jack is gone, who exactly is looking out for us?

These aren't just rhetorical questions...I am truly interested in knowing who Vanguard is accountable to and how we, the "owners" can see for ourselves how they are spending our money.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by bondsr4me »

galawdawg wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:43 pm
Stinky wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:43 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:54 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 am Thanks galawdawg!
So would you classify Vanguard as for-profit? or "almost for-profit"? or "almost non-profit"?
According to DiStefano's reporting, Vanguard officials acknowledge it is a private, for-profit company.
That sounds just like Fidelity! :P
Not quite like Fidelity, I don't think.

I assume that both Fidelity and Vanguard pay their employees well. After all salaries and other expenses are covered, the residual goes to the "shareholders".

Here's the difference. I believe that the shareholders of Fidelity are individuals, like the Johnson family. On the other hand, I believe that the shareholders of Vanguard are the underlying mutual funds.

So Fidelity's profits go to the Johnson family (and others), while Vanguard's go to the benefit of Vanguard's mutual fund holders (I think).
Not to beat a dead horse, but I haven't yet seen anyone provide a link to, or a copy of, the annual report of the Vanguard Group or Vanguard Marketing Corporation (the companies owned by the funds) where we "shareholders" can see what the profits are for any given year and how they are distributed.

Do you think the Johnson Family is able to see the income and expenses of Fidelity, how executives are compensated, and how profits are calculated and distributed? I suspect so.

Are the shareholders of Schwab able to see that information as to Schwab? You bet: https://content.schwab.com/web/retail/p ... t_2019.pdf

How about E*TRADE? Yep: https://www.annualreports.com/Click/20628

Merrill Edge (Bank of America)? Yes indeed: http://investor.bankofamerica.com/annua ... ual_Report

Black Rock? Here it is: https://s24.q4cdn.com/856567660/files/d ... Report.pdf

So why is it that Vanguard appears to stand alone as the least transparent financial services company to those who own it? What reason does Vanguard have for refusing to disclose their financials to we, the "shareholders"? Who exactly looks at the expenses of Vanguard to ensure that profits flow to the funds, and thus to us "shareholders", rather than being redirected to expenses (particularly executive compensation)? Who's to say that Vanguard hasn't decided that 50%/75%/90% of all revenue which exceeds actual expenses shall be redirected to executive compensation and/or partnership plan dividends for certain executives and employees?

Those of us who knew Jack Bogle had no doubt that he actually put investors first and while he was at the helm of Vanguard, he acted always in our interest, not his own. Jack didn't just talk the talk, he walked the walk. I believe that is why we see on Bogleheads a culture of "trust" in Vanguard.

However, when it comes to our money, our investments, is blind trust wise? Is the current leadership of Vanguard responsive to "client-owners" like Jack was? Does the current leadership share Jack's values when it comes to actually putting the investor first (and not just as a marketing slogan)? Does the current leadership pass along all cost savings to the funds, and thus to us?

For those of us who question whether that is the case, why doesn't Vanguard simply disclose their financials? After all, aren't we the owners?? What does Vanguard have to hide? Since Jack is gone, who exactly is looking out for us?

These aren't just rhetorical questions...I am truly interested in knowing who Vanguard is accountable to and how we, the "owners" can see for ourselves how they are spending our money.
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Adam Mundorf
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Adam Mundorf »

I have never had a single issue with Vanguard in my ten years of working with them. Of course I've only logged in and pressed buy every week but I digress.
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Stinky
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Stinky »

Adam Mundorf wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:43 am I have never had a single issue with Vanguard in my ten years of working with them. Of course I've only logged in and pressed buy every week but I digress.
You’re the kind of customer any firm would love!

Always buying, never complaining. :D
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SmileyFace
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by SmileyFace »

A lot to celebrate in this highly actionable thread!

Here is my update for this topic today!:
  • No problems today with online access to my Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab accounts!
In other news:
  • My Marcus, Synchrony, and Ally online accounts are also up and running today along with my local bank.
  • My mail was delivered yesterday without issue and UPS and FEDEX deliveries have been on time so far this holiday season
.
  • My car started yesterday as it always does when I went out to run errands
  • I went to the grocery store and hardware store and I am happy to report I had no problems at either destination
  • Over the weekend, after being tired of Thanksgiving Day leftovers, we got take-out food from a local restaurant - no problems with the items - all items were as ordered and were quite tasty!
  • I remain gainfully employed
  • Both of my children remain gainfully employed
  • My company paid me without issue yesterday via Direct Deposit yesterday - no problem there either!
  • My medical insurance covered a recent bill that was submitted to them without issue. YEAH!
  • Both of my computers started this morning - my work machine and my home machine
  • My smartphone continues to run well. The charger did the job last night and it is showing 100%
  • None of the Apps on my Smartphone are giving me any problems - I received a pretty good notification about the weather as expected!
  • My spouse vacuumed the house yesterday - vacuum ran without error
  • I am able to access bogleheads successfully this morning
  • My wifi is running well - I know since I was able to get to all my online accounts
  • My electricity is on - we did have some wind last night was this is indeed something to celebrate.
  • It is a bit cold outside, so I am also happy that my furnace is running
.
  • I took a shower this morning - was happy to have hot water!
Maybe I am missing the point to this thread but if the above is helpful I will return tomorrow with further exciting updates on problems that I am not experiencing! Perhaps it will help if I add the names of my electric company, medical insurance, etc next time (sorry I left these out).
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Mezpi1 »

I am coming up on 1 year with vanguard, formerly a Morgan Stanley customer. I currently subscribe to the pas service, however after another year or two I may opt out. I am a 1 year retiree and the pas service provided me with initial guidance. It also provides my spouse with someone to guide her in case something unexpectedly happens to me. No issues with service since I am on a set it and forget mode right now. I did question my VXUS allocations, but assured they are projected to grow.

I need to clarify that my VPAS rep is open to changes I may want to make to my portfolio allocation. Since I am still a newbie to investing, I do look to their advice for guidance. Hopefully in a year or two with bogleheads guidance, I can take the training wheels off and drop VPAS.
Last edited by Mezpi1 on Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by galawdawg »

Mezpi1 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:54 pm I did question my VXUS allocations, but assured they are projected to grow.
Wow. :shock:
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by EddyB »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 pm It's true. I don't relate to most of the complaints. It just gets extremely repetitive. If people are that worked up and dissatisfied, it should be an easy choice. The community doesn't benefit from a multi-page argumentative thread every time someone can't log into Vanguard for 10 minutes.
You can say that, but it would undermine the stated reasoning of the moderators in leaving *this* thread open.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by ruralavalon »

galawdawg wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:43 am
Mezpi1 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:54 pm I did question my VXUS allocations, but assured they are projected to grow.
Wow. :shock:
"Projected" is a what makes the statement true, growth is not guaranteed.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by beyou »

Regarding profits, the idea is that if there are profits, the fund ER can be lowered and still allow Vanguard to pay their expenses. Or they can spend the $ to improve services to the funds. But the profits are not going to be paid in cash to you or your fund.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by galawdawg »

ruralavalon wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:53 am
galawdawg wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:43 am
Mezpi1 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:54 pm I did question my VXUS allocations, but assured they are projected to grow.
Wow. :shock:
"Projected" is a what makes the statement true, growth is not guaranteed.
While the statement "projected to grow" may be technically true, Iwhat Mezpi1 posted about how Vanguard responded to their questioning the VXUS allocations I found troubling.

Instead of "assuring" the client that the investment is "projected to grow" (which sounds like something I'd expect to hear from a salesperson), an advisor should work to select investments for the client's approval that meet their investment goals and objectives taking into account their personal risk tolerance, both overall and as to each particular investment. Instead of telling the investor "don't worry about it, it is projected to grow," I'd think that a better approach for a true fiduciary advisor would be, "let's talk about the potential risks and potential rewards of VXUS and if you aren't comfortable with VXUS after we do that, then we'll look at other funds that might better fit your investment preferences and how those might work in your overall investment strategy."

There have been reports on Bogleheads from others who have tried PAS but were uncomfortable with the recommendations from Vanguard, some of whom bailed on VPAS and returned to their preferred portfolio. When VPAS attempts to shoehorn investors into Vanguard's "recommended" portfolios, regardless of what the investor wishes, I believe it does a disservice to the investor. It sounds like the approach VG may be taking is "we know better than you do what is good for you, just trust us." Perhaps that is the nature or even the point of VPAS, but it isn't the approach I would take. It would be a challenge for any investor to "stay the course" during market volatility or down turns when they weren't even comfortable with the investment choice to start with.
Last edited by galawdawg on Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by 1210sda »

1. Been with Vanguard since July 9, 1986..... over 34 years.
2. Have not had any issues worthy of mention in all that time.
3. My Expense Ratio for my 3 Fund Portfolio is 4.3 basis points. I am happy with that.
4. If I felt that I was not getting my money's worth, I would simply walk away.
5. Walk away to whom, is the question.

For now, I'm staying with Vanguard.

P.S. I guess I'm somewhat unhappy with the low dividend on their money market funds, but I guess that's true with the others too.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by LadyGeek »

An off-topic interchange has been removed. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by LadyGeek »

With regards to some earlier posts, the discussion is getting derailed on general complaints about Vanguard's investment management decisions, reporting profits. There is also an off-topic post discussing items not related to Vanguard.

Complaints are welcome, but they should be actionable and discussed in a different thread. This thread is for "No complaints".
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by RetiredInTheWest »

No problems here (~30 years).
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