Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

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peppers
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by peppers »

My post on another thread.

viewtopic.php?p=5619499#p5619499
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

SmileyFace wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:06 pm Silly post. I suspected it before but now I am convinced cheese-it works for Vanguard. :)
Now that I set up a email rule that filters Vanguard's emails that contain misinformation on Brokerage conversion as well as those peddling PAS directly to the trash I am doing much better.
The fact that a post is needed like this is, in itself, indicative of a serious ongoing issue.
You have discovered my secret identity! I am really Tim Buckley and I troll the Bogleheads forum for fun. I usually try to be helpful by giving factual information. This is an old tounge-in-cheek thread that I break out periodically when the hysteria reaches fever pitch. The growth trend in assets under management is the strongest argument against the hysterics. To be clear, this doesn't mean that there aren't problems. It means those who are so bothered by them are minority cases, despite what you read here. If you want to leave Vanguard, no one's stopping you. Except sometimes Vanguard.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by rkhusky »

Have done several Roth conversions and many other transactions this year with no problems. Each took about a minute to accomplish online.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by SmileyFace »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:05 pm
SmileyFace wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:06 pm Silly post. I suspected it before but now I am convinced cheese-it works for Vanguard. :)
Now that I set up a email rule that filters Vanguard's emails that contain misinformation on Brokerage conversion as well as those peddling PAS directly to the trash I am doing much better.
The fact that a post is needed like this is, in itself, indicative of a serious ongoing issue.
You have discovered my secret identity! I am really Tim Buckley and I troll the Bogleheads forum for fun. I usually try to be helpful by giving factual information. This is an old tounge-in-cheek thread that I break out periodically when the hysteria reaches fever pitch. The growth trend in assets under management is the strongest argument against the hysterics. To be clear, this doesn't mean that there aren't problems. It means those who are so bothered by them are minority cases, despite what you read here. If you want to leave Vanguard, no one's stopping you. Except sometimes Vanguard.
I don't see hysteria. I see multiple frustrated posts of folks that are simply trying access their accounts for various reasons and asking for help or alternatives. To create a special post to try to "counterbalance" frustrated customers and return to it to simply pledge your allegiance to Vanguard strikes me as overly zealous and lacking sympathy to those who have tried to remain loyal to Vanguard but grow tired of their IT incompetence.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

It's true. I don't relate to most of the complaints. It just gets extremely repetitive. If people are that worked up and dissatisfied, it should be an easy choice. The community doesn't benefit from a multi-page argumentative thread every time someone can't log into Vanguard for 10 minutes.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Silverado »

SmileyFace wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:41 pm
Silverado wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:38 pm
SmileyFace wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:06 pm Silly post. I suspected it before but now I am convinced cheese-it works for Vanguard. :)
Now that I set up a email rule that filters Vanguard's emails that contain misinformation on Brokerage conversion as well as those peddling PAS directly to the trash I am doing much better.
The fact that a post is needed like this is, in itself, indicative of a serious ongoing issue.
Been with vanguard for years, have received zero marketing emails. No filters.
Do you already have a brokerage account or are you on a Fund-only account?
Brokerage. No reason for me to not change a couple years ago. Only action in the account is buying once a month.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Silverado »

SmileyFace wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:23 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:05 pm
SmileyFace wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:06 pm Silly post. I suspected it before but now I am convinced cheese-it works for Vanguard. :)
Now that I set up a email rule that filters Vanguard's emails that contain misinformation on Brokerage conversion as well as those peddling PAS directly to the trash I am doing much better.
The fact that a post is needed like this is, in itself, indicative of a serious ongoing issue.
You have discovered my secret identity! I am really Tim Buckley and I troll the Bogleheads forum for fun. I usually try to be helpful by giving factual information. This is an old tounge-in-cheek thread that I break out periodically when the hysteria reaches fever pitch. The growth trend in assets under management is the strongest argument against the hysterics. To be clear, this doesn't mean that there aren't problems. It means those who are so bothered by them are minority cases, despite what you read here. If you want to leave Vanguard, no one's stopping you. Except sometimes Vanguard.
I don't see hysteria. I see multiple frustrated posts of folks that are simply trying access their accounts for various reasons and asking for help or alternatives. To create a special post to try to "counterbalance" frustrated customers and return to it to simply pledge your allegiance to Vanguard strikes me as overly zealous and lacking sympathy to those who have tried to remain loyal to Vanguard but grow tired of their IT incompetence.
Your money is involved, no reason to 'try and remain loyal' to anything. You need to look out for number one in this instance.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

No argument there. Personally, I'm satisfied, and I have greater trust in the underlying structure. On the contrary, I don't trust that other brokers won't do a bait and switch or take away perks whenever it's financially expedient for them. I'm not motivated to switch brokers for minor differences that I don't find meaningful. Others are. That's the beauty of choice. If differences become compelling, all options remain on the table.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by CRJPylote »

The only issue I had was getting locked out of my account because I don't check it much. The rep on the other end was very helpful and it was resolved.

I have since modified my password practices.

Edit: I also don't agree with their ban on 3x products.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by JBTX »

I've never had any issues that I recall. I don't make a lot of transactions and I rarely have to call for help.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by linuxizer »

I'm also not experiencing any problems with Vanguard today, last year, last decade.

Most importantly, I'm not experiencing any hidden tricks to leech yield. There's no Ultrashort shennanigans, no messing with the convexity of bond funds (although VG still needs to be more public about its convexity), etc.

I consented to the brokerage switch a few years ago. It works fine. Roth conversions seem easier than under the old system.

When we had a complicated situation involving a Roth transfer, I had no problem reaching someone on the phone. They checked with several higher-ups to verify the question and got back to us within a few hours with the definitive answer and instructions.

I can see how location doesn't matter if you prefer ETFs, where you can hold Vanguard at other brokerages. I'm not afraid of ETFs but see no point in complicating things and prefer mutual funds where the ER is about the same. For mutual funds, it seems like holding directly at Vanguard is still the way to go.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by bhjjk19 »

I'm glad Cheez-IT Guy posted this (I enjoy all of his posts). Why am I particularly happy with this post?
Because every time I read a negative post about Vanguard, I begin to 2nd guess my relationship with them.
I've been with Vanguard for 35+ years and while I admit their service has gone down for the past 5 years, it has not impacted me to the point where I would pack up and leave. They still provide me with good returns at a low cost which is the #1 reason for being there.
Yes, there were times they did not respond to my emails; times when the "Flagship Rep" only gave me 30 minutes of his time.
Did it bother me? Absolutely YES. Did it make me consider ending my relationship? No.
Why not? THIS WEB SITE and the great participants who are always willing to answer questions and provide their experiences.
What if I never found Bogleheads? I would likely have left Vanguard for Schwab.

It's possible that I would consider Schwab down the road out of concern for my wife who would have a difficult time handling finances without a lot of hand holding should I pass away sooner than expected. Schwab is local in our Buffalo, NY area; Vanguard and Fidelity are not.
I could also choose to stay with Vanguard and simplify my Boglehead portfolio even more with PAS or LifeStrategy.
I'm 66 so to me its too soon to decide either way. In the mean time I'm fine with my relationship with Vanguard right now.
Thanks for listening and "Happy Thanksgiving" to ALL.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Doc »

bhjjk19 wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:56 am They still provide me with good returns at a low cost which is the #1 reason for being there.
Vanguard was the leader in good returns at low cost for a long time and probably still is to some extent. But they were too successful with their model. Now many other brokers also provide us with those good returns at low cost. And as this thread has illustrated, those other brokers often give better service.

As an example: If I trade an ETF at Vanguard I can download that transaction to Quicken on the third business day. If I make that same transaction at Schwab I can download the transaction in three minutes. Sometimes that makes a big difference.

In many circumstances that is not a "problem". But not always.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by columbia »

I don't pay them to be my accountant or lawyer (or priest or cook), so never an issue.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by stan1 »

columbia wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:24 pm I don't pay them to be my accountant or lawyer (or priest or cook), so never an issue.
Or pay them to be my psychiatrist, marriage counselor, or friend to talk to when I'm feeling lonely.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by afan »

I have been with Vanguard for decades,. Stayed because I am happy with the service and the costs.

No problems.

Had a serious problem with Fidelity years ago and avoided them for that reason. Much later I was forced to deal with them and they have been fine. Still have a bad taste about my prior experience and will move that money to Vanguard when I can.

Have heard good things about Schwab.

JD Power survey ranks these three highest in customer satisfaction.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press- ... tion-study
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by treypar »

I have never experienced a problem with Vanguard.
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theduke
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by theduke »

I believe in the KISS method and Mr. Bogel's strategy. I haven't called Vanguard in twenty years. I can do what I need to on their website which is seldom used.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by hudson »

I like dealing with nonprofit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions.
Of course, if a for-profit business has a better deal, I'll take a look. (Amex Bank's savings rates and Fidelity's 2% Visa card)
I like Vanguard's low expense ratios across the board.
I rarely call, but when I do, my questions have been answered.
All financial institutions are different. All have their quirks, and some as you know are horrible. Those un-named horrible institutions make Vanguard look very nice.
I don't need or want any special services; I like keeping costs low.
Vanguard works for me, but it's good to know there are other good choices.
Last edited by hudson on Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by galawdawg »

hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by JackoC »

whodidntante wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:06 am Since Vanguard won't pay me to transfer assets there, I wouldn't know. :twisted:
From the 2019 part of this thread, but I can see that point. I haven't seen enough difference among providers to argue that somebody willing to move their assets around for opening bonuses shouldn't do that because somebody who doesn't pay a bonus has better 'customer service'. I transferred some assets out of Vanguard to Merrill a couple of years ago for opening bonuses (taxable plus IRA) plus ongoing qualification for 'Platinum Honors' level on BOA credit cards.

OTOH I've been with Vanguard for ~30 years and there is a comfort level there. I'm also hesitant to move everything around for bonuses. I usually spend my bonus-chasing efforts on bank accounts requiring I move smaller amounts of money, or credit cards. Complaints about Vang also seem to vary according to their non-transparent service levels, possibly some people kept personal reps where others at the same asset level no longer have, or maybe it's because they are at a higher non-advertised service level, etc. I won't get into that as it applies to us. I would just say our rate of direct contact with any broker is pretty low and it's less common still that it's anything difficult. So 'no problem' which is my basic experience with Vang is based on not actually asking much of them.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Stinky »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.

Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
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"Never had a problem."

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Bogleheads:

As a "stay-the-course" investor, I very seldom contact Vanguard. Never had a problem.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by galawdawg »

Stinky wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:10 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.

Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
Joseph DiStefano of the Philadelphia Inquirer, one of the most knowledgeable journalists on the subject of Vanguard, can explain it better than I can. From a few articles over the past few years...

In reporting that Vanguard's SEC filings have dropped claims that they are non-profit and operate at cost:
No more claim that Vanguard’s way offers a “no profit" contrast to the “profit component” that other companies pack into their management fees. Indeed, company officials acknowledge it is a private, for-profit company that earns profits and pays income taxes. “They are not a non-profit,” said Daniel Wiener, chairman of Adviser Investments, a New York company that also sells Vanguard funds. “How else could the board of directors determine a “dividend” on the profit-sharing plan that pays bonuses larger than salaries to Vanguard’s senior people annually? "
https://fusion.inquirer.com/columnists/ ... 90207.html

For example, Vanguard PAS is a huge profit center for Vanguard, likely earning them in the neighborhood of $400 million a year above their costs. Where have those profits gone? We know that Vanguard upper management and executives receive a share of the profits but because Vanguard, unlike publicly traded companies, refuses to disclose executive compensation to its "client-owners", we really don't know what they earn. But this article from the Philadelphia Inquirer is illuminating: https://www.inquirer.com/business/vangu ... 90610.html.

Some quotes from the article:
Vanguard’s Partnership Plan pays out millions of dollars a year to Vanguard’s top executives, while limiting most employees to a bonus that is calculated using a set of variables related to their job “grade” and tenure to determine the payout
For qualifying employees, Vanguard’s profit-sharing dividends will be calculated at $283.48 per point for 2018 and $248.45 per point for 2017, up from $213.26 in 2016. (The more points you have at Vanguard, the more profit sharing you receive.)
The takeaway: “Vanguard is not, and has never been, a nonprofit, though much of the language around ‘operating at cost’ does at times make it sound as though they are,” Wiener said. Vanguard “is exceedingly profitable, and hence has the ability to pay its captains millions of dollars every year." Just two funds, 500 Index and Total Stock Market Index, generated about $600 million in fees alone last year, estimated Wiener’s colleague Jeff DeMaso.
Vanguard spokesperson Alyssa Thornton declined to comment on the profit-sharing details. “Consistent with years prior, we don’t discuss the specifics of our compensation program, except to say that Partnership enables our crew to celebrate and share in the success and value they’ve helped to achieve on behalf of Vanguard investors.”
And what was the likely affect of the additional profits from PAS. Another article from the Philadelphia Inquirer talks about 2019 profits: https://www.inquirer.com/business/vangu ... 00713.html

From that article:
The Partnership Plan dividend for 2019 grew 13.6% to a bit more than $322 per share, or partnership unit.
Who gets Partnership dividends? That’s changed dramatically over time. Previously, tenured employees got up to 30% of salary, a nice chunk of change that made up for lower salaries compared with other finance firms. But in 2010 Vanguard restructured Partnership, and payouts were cut. In 2015, Vanguard Group reclassified around 2,100 U.S. staff of the Malvern-based investment giant’s global “crew” as hourly workers (not “exempt” salaried employees). The upshot was that those workers who were bonus-eligible would no longer get the extra money.
Since 1984, the Partnership Plan’s dividend has grown 93.9 times its original $3.43 payout to $322.03 most recently. By comparison, the value of one share of Vanguard 500 Index fund has, with all distributions reinvested, grown 41.3 times over the same period. “Indexing may have made some investors wealthy over the three decades the Partnership Plan has been around. But it’s marketing those index funds, not investing in them, that really contributes to the executive teams’ bank accounts,” he said.
So to answer your question "to whom do profits inure?", we just don't know. Some may go to reduce expense ratios, but reports indicate that a substantial amount goes to senior leadership. The shame of it is that since shareholders own the funds which own the company, we should have the right to this information. Unfortunately, Vanguard refuses to release information on how our profits are distributed or used.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Stinky »

galawdawg,

Thank you for the detailed response. Very interesting.

At the end of the day, it sounds to me like we should look at Vanguard the same way as we do any other company. In other words, are they providing good value for the price that we pay.

It sounds like there’s nothing particularly “noble” about Vanguard these days. Maybe there was at one time. But now Vanguard sounds just like another business
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by hudson »

Thanks galawdawg!
So would you classify Vanguard as for-profit? or "almost for-profit"? or "almost non-profit"?
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by galawdawg »

hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:51 am Thanks galawdawg!
So would you classify Vanguard as for-profit? or "almost for-profit"? or "almost non-profit"?
According to DiStefano's reporting, Vanguard officials acknowledge it is a private, for-profit company.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by abuss368 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:03 am Post here when you aren't experiencing any life-altering problems or minor inconveniences at Vanguard.

Perhaps this can serve as a counterbalance for those on the fence who interpret special-cause or isolated issues as a sign of some systemic ill at the investing behemoth and either shy away or move assets as a knee-jerk reaction to someone else's plight.

No significant issues in my 13+ years.
I like this thread. I have never really had an issues. Very rare do I contact Vanguard, but when I have things are resolved.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by LadyGeek »

It's important to get your definitions correct. "Not-for-profit", "For-profit", and "Nonprofit" have very clear and distinctive meanings.

See: Nonprofit vs. Not-for-Profit vs. For-Profit: What's the Difference?
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by JackoC »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
I think it's more of a commonly ignored technical nitpick. :happy In that comparison at least, Vanguard vs. credit unions. A real nitpicker would say 'non profit' applies to organizations mainly intended for charitable works and that a CU is a 'not for profit', an entity intended mainly to provide a normal business service but which directs any excess of revenue over expense back to the business, not third party shareholders. Vanguard is not a 'not for profit' technically, true. There isn't any other entity that's just like it. It's sort of like a mutual insurance company, but its own disclosures have dropped the term 'mutual' (mutual mutual fund co) because it's not legally that either. However the main claim that Vanguard is really different from a not for profit tends to center around the practical issue of employee compensation. And that is really not different than a 'not for profit' like a CU. When CU's do aggressive expansion via universal access and/or advertising (even on national TV a few of them) you can bet one of the underlying reasons is personal ambition of management to rule a larger 'not for profit' empire that commands more comp for them, also to be able to hire better people by offering higher comp to them via economy of scale. That's not basically different than the likely motivation behind Vanguard's evolution over the years IMO. Maybe this partly gets tangled up in the mythos of 'St Jack'. If somebody supposes that Vanguard is or was at one time a monastic order with a vow of poverty maybe it's more important for Philly Inquirer etc to dwell on how that isn't true. But in terms of a realistic view of how CU's and Vanguard are actually run, it's not very significant IMO.

And it has zero direct impact anyway on my choice of financial providers. I do CD's with CU's more often than banks, because I go for the highest rate available when one of my CD's matures, and that's more often a CU than a bank. Which is probably related to the difference between 'full' for profit organization and a CU. But I don't directly care if CU is 'not for profit', and sometimes a bank has a better rate, so I take that. Similarly with Vanguard. I put a lot of stuff with them when building up my portfolio because their equity fund ER's were lower. Now that's not as big a difference but too much capital gain to consider realizing it just to get a little lower ER if so. And on bond funds Vanguard is still usually better by a significant amount, for the type of bond funds I use. 'Customer service' to park the stuff at Vanguard is fine IMO. As mentioned earlier, chasing bonuses elsewhere would be a practical reason to leave Vanguard and I shift some assets out for that reason, but I don't like the idea of shifting big %'s of my assets around.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by ruralavalon »

Stinky wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:10 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.

Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
Vanguard is mutual, the profits go to the customers.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by galawdawg »

ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:57 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:10 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.

Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
Vanguard is mutual, the profits go to the customers.
Are you sure about that? For example, what were the profits of the Vanguard Group or the Vanguard Marketing Corporation in 2019? How much of those profits were returned to the funds and thus the investors? Do you know where an annual report, including statements of income and expenses, can be found for each of these entities?
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by JackoC »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:20 pm
ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:57 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:10 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.
Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
Vanguard is mutual, the profits go to the customers.
Are you sure about that? For example, what were the profits of the Vanguard Marketing Corporation in 2019? How much of those were returned to the funds and thus the investors?
Overall entity profit in a public stock company goes to overall entity (the public stock holding company, which owns the subsidiaries) shareholders. Vanguard doesn't have any external shareholders, so that's impossible. Paying employees is an *expense*, it's not a distribution of profit which is what's left after expense. The quotes in the articles saying 'oh yeah it's a private for profit company' are people speaking loosely, but this exchange started with a technical criticism of the statement that Vanguard and credit unions are similar. But only somewhat loosely speaking, they are similar. Both Vanguard and a typical CU have a two way competing interest of employees (who want to get paid more) v customer/owners (fund holders or CU member) who want to pay less, with management theoretically the representatives mainly of the customer/owners. In a public stock company you have a largely separate third group, outside shareholders separate from customers. Vanguard and CU's do not. Again in theory the management of public stock co's are representatives of the shareholders but in reality have their own interests which aren't always identical. Relatively speaking Vanguard, mutual insurance co's and CU's are relatively similar compared to public stock company financial institutions.

The Philly Inquirer guy whatever his knowledge about Vanguard specifics is missing some Corp Finance 101 principles in presenting as factual a quote saying Vanguard is 'private profit making company' which it's not. But his basic point seems to be that Vanguard doesn't necessarily pay its people way below market comp which it somehow should. But they presumably couldn't staff themselves if they tried to do that. His implication the head of Vanguard wouldn't make at least 'millions' is particularly laughable. Dozens of people in big public stock company financial institutions make more than $1mil/yr. but the head of a $trils AUM fund company wouldn't?
Last edited by JackoC on Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rowan Oak
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Rowan Oak »

20+ years with Vanguard (all accounts).
No problems.
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palanzo
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by palanzo »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 pm It's true. I don't relate to most of the complaints. It just gets extremely repetitive. If people are that worked up and dissatisfied, it should be an easy choice. The community doesn't benefit from a multi-page argumentative thread every time someone can't log into Vanguard for 10 minutes.
The community does not benefit from this post. If people are having problems the community tries to help.

Also assets under management are not a metric that reflects customer service. It seems that for you assets under management mitigates all issues.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by palanzo »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:27 pm No argument there. Personally, I'm satisfied, and I have greater trust in the underlying structure. On the contrary, I don't trust that other brokers won't do a bait and switch or take away perks whenever it's financially expedient for them. I'm not motivated to switch brokers for minor differences that I don't find meaningful. Others are. That's the beauty of choice. If differences become compelling, all options remain on the table.
Vanguard took away the Vanguard Advantage account, TurboTax etc. So you don't trust Vanguard presumably?
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wander
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by wander »

Zero problem.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by palanzo »

ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:57 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:10 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:35 am
hudson wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:28 am I like dealing with non-profit financial institutions like Vanguard or credit unions....
I'm sorry to disagree and I understand that it is a common misconception, however, Vanguard is not a non-profit.
Please expand on this.

Presuming that there are profits, to whom do profits inure?
Vanguard is mutual, the profits go to the customers.
Could you please point us all to a document that details the profits that went to customers and how much?
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by sschoe2 »

Never had a problem but also never had to call them either. I do everything online with automated features.

Some of the stories are alarming. My mother never had a problem with Bank of America until she passed away and I had to deal with her mortage and it was a cluster of obstinance and incompetence that stressed my family out and resulted in a CFPB complaint and I will never deal with them again. I hope Vanguard isn't like that. It is one thing to make an error. It is another thing to cross your arms and refuse to fix it until the customer makes a federal complaint.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

palanzo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:51 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 pm It's true. I don't relate to most of the complaints. It just gets extremely repetitive. If people are that worked up and dissatisfied, it should be an easy choice. The community doesn't benefit from a multi-page argumentative thread every time someone can't log into Vanguard for 10 minutes.
Also assets under management are not a metric that reflects customer service. It seems that for you assets under management mitigates all issues.
I didn't suggest that assets under management directly reflected customer service excellence. Rather, I am suggesting that the continued growth in assets under management (which continues to outpace peer institutions) is strong evidence that the customer service is "good enough" for at least a significant number of individuals. Do you disagree?
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Vanguard seems to be having IT problems tonight (Friday November 27, 2020). Not only can't I view today's data in my accounts, but I can't even view a list of vanguard funds.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

palanzo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:53 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:27 pm No argument there. Personally, I'm satisfied, and I have greater trust in the underlying structure. On the contrary, I don't trust that other brokers won't do a bait and switch or take away perks whenever it's financially expedient for them. I'm not motivated to switch brokers for minor differences that I don't find meaningful. Others are. That's the beauty of choice. If differences become compelling, all options remain on the table.
Vanguard took away the Vanguard Advantage account, TurboTax etc. So you don't trust Vanguard presumably?
Good points, but when I wrote that, I was actually thinking specifically about free trades for Vanguard products. TD Ameritrade has been through two full cycles with regard to trade cost status for high-volume Vanguard ETFs in just a few years. I'm failing to see what is so superior at other brokers that I would go through the hassle to change to end up essentially where I am. The future isn't guaranteed anywhere, but Vanguard has the inherent structure to survive with low costs. Other brokers and asset managers finally realized Vanguard was eating their lunch and came out with some competitive products by robbing from one area to subsidize another. What happens if their cash cows ever dry up? We shall see.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by ruralavalon »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:38 pm Vanguard seems to be having IT problems tonight (Friday November 27, 2020). Not only can't I view today's data in my accounts, but I can't even view a list of vanguard funds.
I just logged on using the app, no problems. I can see my accounts and holdings, and a list of Vanguard funds.

I just logged on using the website, could see my accounts and holdings, but could not see a list of Vanguard funds.
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UpperNwGuy
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by UpperNwGuy »

ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:57 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:38 pm Vanguard seems to be having IT problems tonight (Friday November 27, 2020). Not only can't I view today's data in my accounts, but I can't even view a list of vanguard funds.
I just logged on using the app, no problems. I can see my accounts and holdings, and a list of Vanguard funds.

I just logged on using the website, could see my accounts and holdings, but could not see a list of Vanguard funds.
Since about 7:55 I've been able to see my accounts, and they've been updated to include today's data, but I still can't see a list of Vanguard funds. I'm on the website using my laptop. I don't use the app because my old eyes don't like trying to read the itty bitty screen on my iPhone.

Why do I have this sinking feeling that not only is Vanguard pushing us to use ETFs instead of mutual funds, but they're also quietly pushing us to use the app instead of the website?
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Gort »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:20 pm
ruralavalon wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:57 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:38 pm Vanguard seems to be having IT problems tonight (Friday November 27, 2020). Not only can't I view today's data in my accounts, but I can't even view a list of vanguard funds.
I just logged on using the app, no problems. I can see my accounts and holdings, and a list of Vanguard funds.

I just logged on using the website, could see my accounts and holdings, but could not see a list of Vanguard funds.
Since about 7:55 I've been able to see my accounts, and they've been updated to include today's data, but I still can't see a list of Vanguard funds. I'm on the website using my laptop. I don't use the app because my old eyes don't like trying to read the itty bitty screen on my iPhone.

Why do I have this sinking feeling that not only is Vanguard pushing us to use ETFs instead of mutual funds, but they're also quietly pushing us to use the app instead of the website?
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by BogleZogle___Mogul »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:38 pm Vanguard seems to be having IT problems tonight (Friday November 27, 2020). Not only can't I view today's data in my accounts, but I can't even view a list of vanguard funds.
Wrong thread. This is the only good news thread! Cheez-It Guy is going to lose his mind!
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by UpperNwGuy »

BogleZogle___Mogul wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:44 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:38 pm Vanguard seems to be having IT problems tonight (Friday November 27, 2020). Not only can't I view today's data in my accounts, but I can't even view a list of vanguard funds.
Wrong thread. This is the only good news thread! Cheez-It Guy is going to lose his mind!
Once a thread reaches multiple pages, you have to assume that people often don't remember what the original post was all about. The forum's software usually takes you directly to the first unread post in the thread. If this is an only-good-news thread, then that needs to be in the title.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

BogleZogle___Mogul wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:44 pm Cheez-It Guy is going to lose his mind!
Too late! :wink:

Also, it's not a good news thread. It's a no news thread.
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by BogleZogle___Mogul »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:04 am
BogleZogle___Mogul wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:44 pm Cheez-It Guy is going to lose his mind!
Too late! :wink:

Also, it's not a good news thread. It's a no news thread.
But but but... no news is good news! :sharebeer
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Not Experiencing Any Problems With Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Some say.

So it's good by exclusion.
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