Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Topic Author
elderwise
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:27 am

Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by elderwise » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:56 am

How realistic is retiring at 24?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10517743/ ... starbucks/

To make this a topic of discussion, and actionable I have some questions

- Is 760 K enough to retire with 50+ years to live
- Raising 2 kids and wife is also retired, how about if you suddenly have more kids? 8-)
- Just don't get how you can save 100% of your salary.Does this have to do with deferring income when you have RE passive income, but he also had a day job?

Reading about his personal situation, It also seems he got lucky buying RE through the run up and cashed out and exited RE

TallBoy29er
Posts: 956
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by TallBoy29er » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:58 am

I'm past the point of caring about stories like this. Chart your own course, course correct along the way, and have fun doing it.

DaftInvestor
Posts: 5387
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:05 am

You can do it if you don't mind becoming a burden on society (don't worry though - the rest of us will keep working and paying taxes to take care of your medical insurance, services, schools for your kids, etc. :) ). This guy obviously doesn't care - in fact - he is even bragging about how he made money at his wedding through the gifts he got.
I personally couldn't live with myself.

stoptothink
Posts: 7866
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by stoptothink » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:06 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:05 am
You can do it if you don't mind becoming a burden on society (don't worry though - the rest of us will keep working and paying taxes to take care of your medical insurance, services, schools for your kids, etc. :) ). This guy obviously doesn't care - in fact - he is even bragging about how he made money at his wedding through the gifts he got.
I personally couldn't live with myself.
There were also definitely some liberties with the numbers. I'm all about FIRE, but that story was just sensationalism.

DaftInvestor
Posts: 5387
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:10 am

stoptothink wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:06 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:05 am
You can do it if you don't mind becoming a burden on society (don't worry though - the rest of us will keep working and paying taxes to take care of your medical insurance, services, schools for your kids, etc. :) ). This guy obviously doesn't care - in fact - he is even bragging about how he made money at his wedding through the gifts he got.
I personally couldn't live with myself.
There were also definitely some liberties with the numbers. I'm all about FIRE, but that story was just sensationalism.
Reduction in consumerism isn't a bad movement - it's the folks that brag about living off of society as if it's something to be proud about that I don't like. (I'd be ashamed - not proud).

HomeStretch
Posts: 4658
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by HomeStretch » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am

The goal of achieving financial independence at any age is a great one.

I dislike these types of stories as there is often a back story (the person portrayed in the article has a lucrative “side gig” like blogging or a large future inheritance) that readers may not be aware of. In the U.S. where many have high debt levels and little/no savings, I think stories like this can send a message easily misinterpreted by less savvy readers.

rascott
Posts: 2112
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:53 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by rascott » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am

elderwise wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:56 am
How realistic is retiring at 24?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10517743/ ... starbucks/

To make this a topic of discussion, and actionable I have some questions

- Is 760 K enough to retire with 50+ years to live
- Raising 2 kids and wife is also retired, how about if ¹you suddenly have more kids? 8-)
- Just don't get how you can save 100% of your salary.Does this have to do with deferring income when you have RE passive income, but he also had a day job?

Reading about his personal situation, It also seems he got lucky buying RE through the run up and cashed out and exited RE

Well it said they lived on half of his wife's salary and saved all of his and snowballed it into rental properties.

smitcat
Posts: 5911
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by smitcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:13 am

I know of a few folks who retired without ever working - one with two kids as well.
It depends upon what you want to get out of life and what you are willing to do to get it.

Dottie57
Posts: 8667
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:14 am

TallBoy29er wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:58 am
I'm past the point of caring about stories like this. Chart your own course, course correct along the way, and have fun doing it.
I am tired of these stories too.

User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 19198
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am

$760k at a 3% withdrawal rate, which has been the approximate perpetual withdrawal rate, comes out to $22,800 annually. A lot of people live on that while working. We lived for four years making significantly less than that, so it can be done.

However, I wouldn't voluntarily choose to stop working if I only had $22,800 coming in annually, even if I was able to reduce my current expenses to no more than that.

I predict that within five years, this fellow will return to gainful employment.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

DesertDiva
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: In the desert

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by DesertDiva » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:17 am

He's Canadian and healthcare isn't a factor. Otherwise, I agree with TallBoy29er... whatever.

User avatar
AerialWombat
Posts: 1503
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:07 pm
Location: Cash Canyon / Cashville

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by AerialWombat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:29 am

I like stories like this. I find them to be motivating. Sure, you need to read between the lines and suss out the BS parts, and take into consideration certain elements (Canadian family written about in a British newspaper, so health care finances not even mentioned).

But, this guy’s plan has more or less been mine. I pulled the rip cord 5 days ago — Dec. 7 was my first day of semi-retirement. I’m using that term because it’s what it is — I still have to manage my property managers, and there were certain responsibilities in my business that I couldn’t automate, eliminate, or delegate.

So yeah, I still have to work. But I literally have a four-hour workweek now. Life just got 10x better.

User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5608
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by RickBoglehead » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:34 am

It's referred to as "clickbait".
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

User avatar
greg24
Posts: 3895
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:34 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by greg24 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:10 pm

He is a successful young man and should be commended for that.

He quit his salaried job in order to be a property manager for his 10 rental properties.

Doesn't sound retired to me.

But people use "retire" however they like today.

lostdog
Posts: 2749
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by lostdog » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:18 pm

Good for him and I'm happy for him that he gets to spend time with his children.
Global Market Cap Equity/1 Year Cash/Bonds || 25x Expenses

smitcat
Posts: 5911
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by smitcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:22 pm

greg24 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:10 pm
He is a successful young man and should be commended for that.

He quit his salaried job in order to be a property manager for his 10 rental properties.

Doesn't sound retired to me.

But people use "retire" however they like today.
I believe he sold the properties to fund the 'retirement".

smitcat
Posts: 5911
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by smitcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:24 pm

lostdog wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:18 pm
Good for him and I'm happy for him that he gets to spend time with his children.
From his post...
“It’s a bit jarring at first. You find a way to cope by filling time with hobbies, and at first for me, it was gaming.”

User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 19198
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:30 pm

smitcat wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:24 pm
lostdog wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:18 pm
Good for him and I'm happy for him that he gets to spend time with his children.
From his post...
“It’s a bit jarring at first. You find a way to cope by filling time with hobbies, and at first for me, it was gaming.”
That's likely to get old quickly. At such a young age, I really believe that you need a solid plan regarding what you are retiring to.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

User avatar
bligh
Posts: 1288
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by bligh » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm

The more I've looked at it, it seems "retire early", in the FIRE community, has come to end up meaning "Left the corporate rat race". It doesn't mean "not working any more", nor does it mean "they will be a burden on society". It just means that they will now do something that gives them more flexibility in their work life balance, and more control over their work environment. It essentially ends up meaning that they have accumulated enough money that they feel they can risk becoming small time entrepreneurs, running some kind of small lifestyle business. I do not see this as a bad thing at all.

The couple from the article have basically left the "corporate rat race" to become "landlords" and "real estate investors". That is all. Some become bloggers, or etsy sellers, or "influencers", or uber drivers, or scuba instructors, or whatever. I think this is a good thing too. People don't need to spend their lives in a cubicle working a corporate job just so they can wear a Rolex, drive a BMW and have a pool in their back yard. It is a choice. They are choosing to curb their consumption and focus their energies on doing what they enjoy. Anyway, from the article it looks like he is trying to get started with a Youtube channel and a Mentorship program too. If those take off, he might end up making more money than many of those looking down at him with their full time jobs.

Society does not compensate all jobs/roles equally. If you are lucky enough that your passion in life is <insert highly compensated field here> .. great! Keep working and rolling in that dough. For the rest, FIRE lets them pursue their passion. That is not something to look down upon.

I say this as someone whose passion in life IS in a very highly compensated field, and is pursuing financial independence with no real plan to ever retire.
Last edited by bligh on Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Topic Author
elderwise
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:27 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by elderwise » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:34 pm

I was gonna add but forgot. So in this case, for him being NOT AN American, works in favor - healthcare wise.I think in US we have good return on stock investment / options / low ER..healthcare is the big ? without going further.

Man I would be so bored to be retired at even 30, with kids..I do think spending quality time is important but...kids / wife would drive you nuts if you had no job to retire to :twisted: that's another way to look at it..

It is a clickbait no doubt, the thing about banning Starbucks to retire at 24 man how do journalists come up with these catchy titles, I guess it pays to be creative clickbaity :P
Last edited by elderwise on Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lostdog
Posts: 2749
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by lostdog » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:34 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:30 pm
smitcat wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:24 pm
lostdog wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:18 pm
Good for him and I'm happy for him that he gets to spend time with his children.
From his post...
“It’s a bit jarring at first. You find a way to cope by filling time with hobbies, and at first for me, it was gaming.”
That's likely to get old quickly. At such a young age, I really believe that you need a solid plan regarding what you are retiring to.

Possibly. For some people leisure is fine and others prefer to be busy all of the time. To each their own...
Global Market Cap Equity/1 Year Cash/Bonds || 25x Expenses

User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 19198
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:39 pm

lostdog wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:34 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:30 pm
smitcat wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:24 pm
lostdog wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:18 pm
Good for him and I'm happy for him that he gets to spend time with his children.
From his post...
“It’s a bit jarring at first. You find a way to cope by filling time with hobbies, and at first for me, it was gaming.”
That's likely to get old quickly. At such a young age, I really believe that you need a solid plan regarding what you are retiring to.
Possibly. For some people leisure is fine and others prefer to be busy all of the time. To each their own...
I agree that this may be dependent on the individual, but I've heard of exceptionally few in the FIRE crowd who do nothing but leisure 24/7 very long into their retirement. From what I've seen and heard, virtually all of them sooner or later begin doing something productive, whether it's helping a non-profit, running a little part-time business they really enjoy, doing some consulting, etc. Playing video games all day every day may be fine when you're 24, but likely not at 34 or 44.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

User avatar
unclescrooge
Posts: 4922
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by unclescrooge » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:41 pm

AerialWombat wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:29 am
I like stories like this. I find them to be motivating. Sure, you need to read between the lines and suss out the BS parts, and take into consideration certain elements (Canadian family written about in a British newspaper, so health care finances not even mentioned).

But, this guy’s plan has more or less been mine. I pulled the rip cord 5 days ago — Dec. 7 was my first day of semi-retirement. I’m using that term because it’s what it is — I still have to manage my property managers, and there were certain responsibilities in my business that I couldn’t automate, eliminate, or delegate.

So yeah, I still have to work. But I literally have a four-hour workweek now. Life just got 10x better.
Congrats! Maybe you can post your awesome adventure to financial freedom.

lostdog
Posts: 2749
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by lostdog » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:41 pm

bligh wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm
The more I've looked at it, it seems "retire early", in the FIRE community, has come to end up meaning "Left the corporate rat race". It doesn't mean "not working any more", nor does it mean "they will be a burden on society". It just means that they will now do something that gives them more flexibility in their work life balance, and more control over their work environment. It essentially ends up meaning that they have accumulated enough money that they feel they can risk becoming small time entrepreneurs, running some kind of small lifestyle business. I do not see this as a bad thing at all.

The couple from the article have basically left the "corporate rat race" to become "landlords" and "real estate investors". That is all. Some become bloggers, or etsy sellers, or "influencers", or uber drivers, or scuba instructors, or whatever. I think this is a good thing too. People don't need to spend their lives in a cubicle working a corporate job just so they can wear a Rolex, drive a BMW and have a pool in their back yard. It is a choice. They are choosing to curb their consumption and focus their energies on doing what they enjoy. Anyway, from the article it looks like he is trying to get started with a Youtube channel and a Mentorship program too. If those take off, he might end up making more money than many of those looking down at him with their full time jobs.

Society does not compensate all jobs/roles equally. If you are lucky enough that your passion in life is <insert highly compensated field here> .. great! Keep working and rolling in that dough. For the rest, FIRE lets them pursue their passion. That is not something to look down upon.

I say this as someone whose passion in life IS in a very highly compensated field, and is pursuing financial independence with no real plan to ever retire.
Well said.
Global Market Cap Equity/1 Year Cash/Bonds || 25x Expenses

User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 19198
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:44 pm

bligh wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm
The more I've looked at it, it seems "retire early", in the FIRE community, has come to end up meaning "Left the corporate rat race". It doesn't mean "not working any more", nor does it mean "they will be a burden on society". It just means that they will now do something that gives them more flexibility in their work life balance, and more control over their work environment. It essentially ends up meaning that they have accumulated enough money that they feel they can risk becoming small time entrepreneurs, running some kind of small lifestyle business. I do not see this as a bad thing at all.

The couple from the article have basically left the "corporate rat race" to become "landlords" and "real estate investors". That is all. Some become bloggers, or etsy sellers, or "influencers", or uber drivers, or scuba instructors, or whatever. I think this is a good thing too. People don't need to spend their lives in a cubicle working a corporate job just so they can wear a Rolex, drive a BMW and have a pool in their back yard. It is a choice. They are choosing to curb their consumption and focus their energies on doing what they enjoy. Anyway, from the article it looks like he is trying to get started with a Youtube channel and a Mentorship program too. If those take off, he might end up making more money than many of those looking down at him with their full time jobs.

Society does not compensate all jobs/roles equally. If you are lucky enough that your passion in life is <insert highly compensated field here> .. great! Keep working and rolling in that dough. For the rest, FIRE lets them pursue their passion. That is not something to look down upon.

I say this as someone whose passion in life IS in a very highly compensated field, and is pursuing financial independence with no real plan to ever retire.
Excellent post! :sharebeer

Fritz of the Retirement Manifesto blog has said that FIRE should stand for "financial independence, recreational employment." That seems to be far more accurate than 'retire early'.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

randomguy
Posts: 9035
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by randomguy » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:52 pm

From the article
After college, Mike took a $42k-a-year job in consulting.

Alyse, who had graduated a year before, in 2013, took a graphic designer job, making $26,500-a-year.

They lived on slightly less than half of Alyse’s salary and were saving 100 per cent of Mike’s.
They were living on like 13k/year. Granted it sounds like they had a house but 13k/year for 2 people is getting pretty far down there for something you can do for 20+ years (i.e. half dozen, no problem. Tons of grad students do it ever year).

I can't decide which ones I find more annoying. The ones where people claim living at the poverty line is great cause they aren't materialistic and can't imagine how another 10k would make them happier or the 300k/year families who can't make ends meet.:)

User avatar
Brianmcg321
Posts: 705
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:23 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by Brianmcg321 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:59 pm

I wouldn't feel like pretending to be broke my whole life just so I didn't have to work. That would be harder than actually working.

Some people actually like what they do.
Rules to investing: | 1. Don't lose money. | 2. Don't forget rule number 1.

smitcat
Posts: 5911
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by smitcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:00 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:30 pm
smitcat wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:24 pm
lostdog wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:18 pm
Good for him and I'm happy for him that he gets to spend time with his children.
From his post...
“It’s a bit jarring at first. You find a way to cope by filling time with hobbies, and at first for me, it was gaming.”
That's likely to get old quickly. At such a young age, I really believe that you need a solid plan regarding what you are retiring to.
In NY you cab get at least $23K worth of services for free without ever working and retire without the effort ...if that was the goal.
Housing, food, childcare, cell phone, healthcare - when the bar is low there are many ways to achieve the goal.

User avatar
Nestegg_User
Posts: 1510
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by Nestegg_User » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:03 pm

RandomGuy

I'd have to vote the $300 k/yr one, although it might be close if I found that the $13 k one actually had a blog that they made most of their living on :annoyed

{maybe, since they are Canadian, they plan on moving to Nunavut where then having money might become the least of their worries :wink: }
Last edited by Nestegg_User on Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

smitcat
Posts: 5911
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by smitcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:03 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:44 pm
bligh wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm
The more I've looked at it, it seems "retire early", in the FIRE community, has come to end up meaning "Left the corporate rat race". It doesn't mean "not working any more", nor does it mean "they will be a burden on society". It just means that they will now do something that gives them more flexibility in their work life balance, and more control over their work environment. It essentially ends up meaning that they have accumulated enough money that they feel they can risk becoming small time entrepreneurs, running some kind of small lifestyle business. I do not see this as a bad thing at all.

The couple from the article have basically left the "corporate rat race" to become "landlords" and "real estate investors". That is all. Some become bloggers, or etsy sellers, or "influencers", or uber drivers, or scuba instructors, or whatever. I think this is a good thing too. People don't need to spend their lives in a cubicle working a corporate job just so they can wear a Rolex, drive a BMW and have a pool in their back yard. It is a choice. They are choosing to curb their consumption and focus their energies on doing what they enjoy. Anyway, from the article it looks like he is trying to get started with a Youtube channel and a Mentorship program too. If those take off, he might end up making more money than many of those looking down at him with their full time jobs.

Society does not compensate all jobs/roles equally. If you are lucky enough that your passion in life is <insert highly compensated field here> .. great! Keep working and rolling in that dough. For the rest, FIRE lets them pursue their passion. That is not something to look down upon.

I say this as someone whose passion in life IS in a very highly compensated field, and is pursuing financial independence with no real plan to ever retire.
Excellent post! :sharebeer

Fritz of the Retirement Manifesto blog has said that FIRE should stand for "financial independence, recreational employment." That seems to be far more accurate than 'retire early'.
And I have seen this all before - but also before the internet, a cycle repeating for the most part.
Many/most of these folks will reappear in the work force and be completely different - that is if back testing has any value.

pdavi21
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by pdavi21 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:07 pm

Yes. It is possible. So far I have spent under 20k per year on average (currently under 13k) and also have a family of 4.

What is strange is why someone would do it. Why not make 1-2 million before retiring if it only took you a little while to get over 700k?

I think the reason is that person wants your attention so they can make money off of it.

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 12068
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:22 pm

greg24 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:10 pm
He quit his salaried job in order to be a property manager for his 10 rental properties.

Doesn't sound retired to me.
So if I quit my job in the cubical farm to work 4 part time jobs for 80 hours a week, I can be retired too?
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

sailaway
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by sailaway » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:31 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:22 pm
greg24 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:10 pm
He quit his salaried job in order to be a property manager for his 10 rental properties.

Doesn't sound retired to me.
So if I quit my job in the cubical farm to work 4 part time jobs for 80 hours a week, I can be retired too?
Yep!

My husband doesn't even read forums to have confronted the retirement police, but he refers to our travel plans as "an indefinite sabbatical."

lukestuckenhymer
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by lukestuckenhymer » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:39 pm

If you retire at 24 you better have no kids and live very frugally.

lostdog
Posts: 2749
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by lostdog » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:43 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:44 pm
bligh wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm
The more I've looked at it, it seems "retire early", in the FIRE community, has come to end up meaning "Left the corporate rat race". It doesn't mean "not working any more", nor does it mean "they will be a burden on society". It just means that they will now do something that gives them more flexibility in their work life balance, and more control over their work environment. It essentially ends up meaning that they have accumulated enough money that they feel they can risk becoming small time entrepreneurs, running some kind of small lifestyle business. I do not see this as a bad thing at all.

The couple from the article have basically left the "corporate rat race" to become "landlords" and "real estate investors". That is all. Some become bloggers, or etsy sellers, or "influencers", or uber drivers, or scuba instructors, or whatever. I think this is a good thing too. People don't need to spend their lives in a cubicle working a corporate job just so they can wear a Rolex, drive a BMW and have a pool in their back yard. It is a choice. They are choosing to curb their consumption and focus their energies on doing what they enjoy. Anyway, from the article it looks like he is trying to get started with a Youtube channel and a Mentorship program too. If those take off, he might end up making more money than many of those looking down at him with their full time jobs.

Society does not compensate all jobs/roles equally. If you are lucky enough that your passion in life is <insert highly compensated field here> .. great! Keep working and rolling in that dough. For the rest, FIRE lets them pursue their passion. That is not something to look down upon.

I say this as someone whose passion in life IS in a very highly compensated field, and is pursuing financial independence with no real plan to ever retire.
Excellent post! :sharebeer

Fritz of the Retirement Manifesto blog has said that FIRE should stand for "financial independence, recreational employment." That seems to be far more accurate than 'retire early'.
:beer Love this!
Global Market Cap Equity/1 Year Cash/Bonds || 25x Expenses

wolf359
Posts: 2155
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by wolf359 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:53 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:44 pm
bligh wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm
The more I've looked at it, it seems "retire early", in the FIRE community, has come to end up meaning "Left the corporate rat race". It doesn't mean "not working any more", nor does it mean "they will be a burden on society". It just means that they will now do something that gives them more flexibility in their work life balance, and more control over their work environment. It essentially ends up meaning that they have accumulated enough money that they feel they can risk becoming small time entrepreneurs, running some kind of small lifestyle business. I do not see this as a bad thing at all.

The couple from the article have basically left the "corporate rat race" to become "landlords" and "real estate investors". That is all. Some become bloggers, or etsy sellers, or "influencers", or uber drivers, or scuba instructors, or whatever. I think this is a good thing too. People don't need to spend their lives in a cubicle working a corporate job just so they can wear a Rolex, drive a BMW and have a pool in their back yard. It is a choice. They are choosing to curb their consumption and focus their energies on doing what they enjoy. Anyway, from the article it looks like he is trying to get started with a Youtube channel and a Mentorship program too. If those take off, he might end up making more money than many of those looking down at him with their full time jobs.

Society does not compensate all jobs/roles equally. If you are lucky enough that your passion in life is <insert highly compensated field here> .. great! Keep working and rolling in that dough. For the rest, FIRE lets them pursue their passion. That is not something to look down upon.

I say this as someone whose passion in life IS in a very highly compensated field, and is pursuing financial independence with no real plan to ever retire.
Excellent post! :sharebeer

Fritz of the Retirement Manifesto blog has said that FIRE should stand for "financial independence, recreational employment." That seems to be far more accurate than 'retire early'.
It's funny how people have a problem with early retirees who do things that are productive that make money. "That's not retired!" "Actual retired people don't work!"

Meanwhile, the American Association of Retired People (AARP) is publishing articles about "second act careers" (link: https://www.aarp.org/work/working-after ... omers.html). The US Department of Labor actually operates the Senior Community Service Employment Program (SCSEP) targeted at retirees, to help match up older Americans with training and employees. (something about retirement crisis and a labor shortage).

If someone wants to call themselves retired after achieving financial independence, so be it. They can call themselves whatever they want. The real actionable item is whether or not it is a financial model that you yourself would want to use.

In the case of the linked article, I would not. He seems to be supporting a family of 4 on resources that might generate $30K a year. He seems rather controlling of his wife. Should they end up divorced, his plan is destroyed. Should the economy turn south, they may have difficulty cutting back. His kids are young -- as they get older, they get more expensive. Should they have more kids, he's locked into a fixed income. Their path is doable while the economy is booming, but it just seems very risky to me. If it were me, I'd rather keep saving until I could support a higher retirement income -- he has plenty of time and no particular need to rush.

He based his retirement on the 4% rule but used the equity in his real estate. His lifestyle businesses may diversify his income more. I'm not sure how much room for growth he has for real estate in Canada. Does he have sufficient reserves to handle a downturn in the economy if his properties are vacant or need repairs?

WhiteMaxima
Posts: 2143
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by WhiteMaxima » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:54 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:22 pm
greg24 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:10 pm
He quit his salaried job in order to be a property manager for his 10 rental properties.

Doesn't sound retired to me.
So if I quit my job in the cubical farm to work 4 part time jobs for 80 hours a week, I can be retired too?
can you afford health insurance plus out off pocket pay? If not. I won't retire even if I had 5 million dollars.

renue74
Posts: 1870
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:24 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by renue74 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:58 pm

These articles don't bother me.

I'm more than happy to see people uber save money. It's different from the norm.

I think folks dislike it because a lot of these FIRE people are flamboyant about them saving and have extreme ideas.

It's what makes the world go around....different types of people.

User avatar
Schlabba
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 9:14 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by Schlabba » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:24 pm

pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:07 pm
Yes. It is possible. So far I have spent under 20k per year on average (currently under 13k) and also have a family of 4.

What is strange is why someone would do it. Why not make 1-2 million before retiring if it only took you a little while to get over 700k?

I think the reason is that person wants your attention so they can make money off of it.
Exactly this. I can probably retire in my mid 30's, but why wouldn't I just put in 5 extra years and reach for a life time of wealth instead of a lifetime of poverty?
Secretly a dividend investor. Feel free to ask why.

Triple digit golfer
Posts: 5329
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by Triple digit golfer » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:30 pm

pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:07 pm
Yes. It is possible. So far I have spent under 20k per year on average (currently under 13k) and also have a family of 4.
How? Can you share your actual annual expenses over the last couple years?

pdavi21
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by pdavi21 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Triple digit golfer wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:30 pm
pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:07 pm
Yes. It is possible. So far I have spent under 20k per year on average (currently under 13k) and also have a family of 4.
How? Can you share your actual annual expenses over the last couple years?
For the past 37 to 44 months:

5K property Taxes
9.7K medical
5k travel
3.7k utilities
24.6k credit card and cash purchases (including groceries/car/gifts/eating out/other utilities and everything else than the above)

Total: 48k/~40 months * 12 = 14.4k per year

EDIT: The cost of capital from home ownership is not included (~8k per year assuming 5% premium return of AA over home value)
"We spend a great deal of time studying history, which, let's face it, is mostly the history of stupidity." -Stephen Hawking

smitcat
Posts: 5911
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by smitcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:17 pm

pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:40 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:30 pm
pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:07 pm
Yes. It is possible. So far I have spent under 20k per year on average (currently under 13k) and also have a family of 4.
How? Can you share your actual annual expenses over the last couple years?
For the past 37 to 44 months:

5K property Taxes
9.7K medical
5k travel
3.7k utilities
24.6k credit card and cash purchases (including groceries/car/gifts/eating out/other utilities and everything else than the above)

Total: 48k/~40 months * 12 = 14.4k per year

EDIT: The cost of capital from home ownership is not included (~8k per year assuming 5% premium return of AA over home value)
That is fantastic - the $14K is close to our monthly now.

Topic Author
elderwise
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:27 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by elderwise » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:26 pm

pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:40 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:30 pm
pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:07 pm
Yes. It is possible. So far I have spent under 20k per year on average (currently under 13k) and also have a family of 4.
How? Can you share your actual annual expenses over the last couple years?
For the past 37 to 44 months:

5K property Taxes
9.7K medical
5k travel
3.7k utilities
24.6k credit card and cash purchases (including groceries/car/gifts/eating out/other utilities and everything else than the above)

Total: 48k/~40 months * 12 = 14.4k per year

EDIT: The cost of capital from home ownership is not included (~8k per year assuming 5% premium return of AA over home value)
Fantastic! my spending over cards (including food eat out, gas, groceries) is around 12K or 13K i think for 1 year on an average

Do you rent or mortgage? i don't see that above?

ThatGuy
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:00 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by ThatGuy » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:26 pm

wolf359 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:53 pm
If someone wants to call themselves retired after achieving financial independence, so be it. They can call themselves whatever they want. The real actionable item is whether or not it is a financial model that you yourself would want to use.
It becomes very difficult to communicate when you can't agree on what the words that you're using mean.

I'm a green dog who likes to eat gardens.

This sentence doesn't make any sense unless you know that I've redefined green, dog, and gardens to my own personal definitions. And all of you who don't agree with me are just dog police who need a good face punch!
Work is the curse of the drinking class - Oscar Wilde

pdavi21
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by pdavi21 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:32 pm

elderwise wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:26 pm
pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:40 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:30 pm
pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:07 pm
Yes. It is possible. So far I have spent under 20k per year on average (currently under 13k) and also have a family of 4.
How? Can you share your actual annual expenses over the last couple years?
For the past 37 to 44 months:

5K property Taxes
9.7K medical
5k travel
3.7k utilities
24.6k credit card and cash purchases (including groceries/car/gifts/eating out/other utilities and everything else than the above)

Total: 48k/~40 months * 12 = 14.4k per year

EDIT: The cost of capital from home ownership is not included (~8k per year assuming 5% premium return of AA over home value)
Fantastic! my spending over cards (including food eat out, gas, groceries) is around 12K or 13K i think for 1 year on an average

Do you rent or mortgage? i don't see that above?
Neither. I bought cash. I figure it (might?) cost me an additional ~8k a year to exclude that cash from my AA.
"We spend a great deal of time studying history, which, let's face it, is mostly the history of stupidity." -Stephen Hawking

User avatar
bligh
Posts: 1288
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by bligh » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:04 pm

ThatGuy wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:26 pm
wolf359 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:53 pm
If someone wants to call themselves retired after achieving financial independence, so be it. They can call themselves whatever they want. The real actionable item is whether or not it is a financial model that you yourself would want to use.
It becomes very difficult to communicate when you can't agree on what the words that you're using mean.

I'm a green dog who likes to eat gardens.

This sentence doesn't make any sense unless you know that I've redefined green, dog, and gardens to my own personal definitions. And all of you who don't agree with me are just dog police who need a good face punch!
I've come to realize that the definition and meaning of words in a language evolves over time. Language isn't some steady state thing such that words cannot be re-purposed or re-defined. For example, the meanings of the word "Naughty" and the word "Nice" have both changed over time. Neither of those words used to mean what they mean now.

The World and society moves on. You can hold to your old definitions and complain about "Kids these days"... but it is a numbers game. If enough people use a word in one way, then that becomes the new definition. For example, I can use a word to refer to my pet cat or perhaps my pet rooster that could get the Moderators to come swing their bat at this post.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 4183
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by EnjoyIt » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:07 pm

ThatGuy wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:26 pm
wolf359 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:53 pm
If someone wants to call themselves retired after achieving financial independence, so be it. They can call themselves whatever they want. The real actionable item is whether or not it is a financial model that you yourself would want to use.
It becomes very difficult to communicate when you can't agree on what the words that you're using mean.

I'm a green dog who likes to eat gardens.

This sentence doesn't make any sense unless you know that I've redefined green, dog, and gardens to my own personal definitions. And all of you who don't agree with me are just dog police who need a good face punch!
It's a shame people get so overworked about the word retired. I agree that if one "retires" from a 40 hour a week job to another 30+ hour a week job then they are not retired. But if someone in "retirement" dabbles in things here and there and makes money, then what is the big deal. Why the animosity?

I have a family member who is retired but made a few real estate deals over the years that brought in income. Believe me that family member is retired.

Someone who is "retired" and manages a few pieces of property a few hours a month, then yeah, they are retired and dabble in real estate.

I am 100% positive that when I retire I too will find things to do that will make me a few bucks. God forbid someone on the internet thinks I am not retired. Ohhh no.

I just don't understand why so many people have a problem with that.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters. | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418

smitcat
Posts: 5911
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by smitcat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:08 pm

ThatGuy wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:26 pm
wolf359 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:53 pm
If someone wants to call themselves retired after achieving financial independence, so be it. They can call themselves whatever they want. The real actionable item is whether or not it is a financial model that you yourself would want to use.
It becomes very difficult to communicate when you can't agree on what the words that you're using mean.

I'm a green dog who likes to eat gardens.

This sentence doesn't make any sense unless you know that I've redefined green, dog, and gardens to my own personal definitions. And all of you who don't agree with me are just dog police who need a good face punch!
"It becomes very difficult to communicate when you can't agree on what the words that you're using mean"
Exactly - well put , perhaps we retired 15 years back with these definitions.

User avatar
Schlabba
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 9:14 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by Schlabba » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:12 pm

bligh wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:04 pm
ThatGuy wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:26 pm
wolf359 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:53 pm
If someone wants to call themselves retired after achieving financial independence, so be it. They can call themselves whatever they want. The real actionable item is whether or not it is a financial model that you yourself would want to use.
It becomes very difficult to communicate when you can't agree on what the words that you're using mean.

I'm a green dog who likes to eat gardens.

This sentence doesn't make any sense unless you know that I've redefined green, dog, and gardens to my own personal definitions. And all of you who don't agree with me are just dog police who need a good face punch!
I've come to realize that the definition and meaning of words in a language evolves over time. Language isn't some steady state thing such that words cannot be re-purposed or re-defined. For example, the meanings of the word "Naughty" and the word "Nice" have both changed over time. Neither of those words used to mean what they mean now.

The World and society moves on. You can hold to your old definitions and complain about "Kids these days"... but it is a numbers game. If enough people use a word in one way, then that becomes the new definition. For example, I can use a word to refer to my pet cat or perhaps my pet rooster that could get the Moderators to come swing their bat at this post.
Cock! I saw a woman on TV once who refused to teach her children the word ‘cockpit’.

But on topic, the ‘retired’ being used here is ‘no longer having to work for someone else or for the money’.
Secretly a dividend investor. Feel free to ask why.

flyingaway
Posts: 2726
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Retiring at 24 - Extreme FIRE is it possible?

Post by flyingaway » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:14 pm

elderwise wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:56 am
How realistic is retiring at 24?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10517743/ ... starbucks/

To make this a topic of discussion, and actionable I have some questions

- Is 760 K enough to retire with 50+ years to live
- Raising 2 kids and wife is also retired, how about if you suddenly have more kids? 8-)
- Just don't get how you can save 100% of your salary.Does this have to do with deferring income when you have RE passive income, but he also had a day job?

Reading about his personal situation, It also seems he got lucky buying RE through the run up and cashed out and exited RE
Many trust fund kids retired at the birth.

Post Reply