ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

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skeptical1
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ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by skeptical1 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:11 pm

I've been a satisfied Vanguard mutual fund investor for many years. I'm content to stick with mutual funds and don't see any major advantages with ETFs given my "buy and hold forever" strategy. I appreciate being informed of my options; however, I'm getting so much unsolicited ETF info from Vanguard, I'm beginning to wonder if it stands to gain from switching its customer's mutual fund holding with ETFs. So, am I being overly suspicious and skeptical? Anyone else have thoughts about this?

Monster99
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by Monster99 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:41 pm

That is happening to me also... along with constant ads for PAS. Almost makes me want to change to a different company, but I assume Fidelity or Schwab would be the same or worse. I just delete the emails and toss the mailers.....

Girya
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by Girya » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:01 pm

Monster99 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:41 pm
That is happening to me also... along with constant ads for PAS. Almost makes me want to change to a different company, but I assume Fidelity or Schwab would be the same or worse. I just delete the emails and toss the mailers.....
I am at Fidelity and I get zero (none, never, zip, zilch) email advertising from them. I really like their online platform, their customer service is exceptional...it is pretty great. And all trades are now free.

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nisiprius
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by nisiprius » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:35 pm

That's interesting. I haven't gotten any marketing emails from Vanguard at all. Just stuff like

A reminder about your IRA tax withholding
Your confirmation is ready
Your confirmation is ready
Amendment to the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement
Reminder: Vote your proxy today
Updated Vanguard fund information available


Oh, wait. I got one pushing 529 plans, Are you missing out on over $16,000? and Live video webcast: Vanguard CEO Tim Buckley and Chief Investment Officer Greg Davis look ahead to 2019

But nothing about ETFs, and nothing about PAS.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

stan1
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by stan1 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:59 pm

Have you set your preferences to exclude marketing materials? I've done so and get very little US mail or email from Vanguard.

Ferdinand2014
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:01 pm

Monster99 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:41 pm
That is happening to me also... along with constant ads for PAS. Almost makes me want to change to a different company, but I assume Fidelity or Schwab would be the same or worse. I just delete the emails and toss the mailers.....
I never get a single unsolicited email, phone call or mailing from Fidelity. Not once in 22 years.
“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.“ — Warren Buffett

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pokebowl
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by pokebowl » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:18 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:35 pm
That's interesting. I haven't gotten any marketing emails from Vanguard at all. Just stuff like

A reminder about your IRA tax withholding
Your confirmation is ready
Your confirmation is ready
Amendment to the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement
Reminder: Vote your proxy today
Updated Vanguard fund information available


Oh, wait. I got one pushing 529 plans, Are you missing out on over $16,000? and Live video webcast: Vanguard CEO Tim Buckley and Chief Investment Officer Greg Davis look ahead to 2019

But nothing about ETFs, and nothing about PAS.
Have you logged into your account recently? On my internal account holding and balance pages I have two huge PAS banner ads and without a pop up blocker a pop up for PAS as well.

I've blocked them manually with a blocker, but I find it in bad taste.
Nullius in verba.

Silence Dogood
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by Silence Dogood » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:17 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:35 pm
That's interesting. I haven't gotten any marketing emails from Vanguard at all. Just stuff like

A reminder about your IRA tax withholding
Your confirmation is ready
Your confirmation is ready
Amendment to the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement
Reminder: Vote your proxy today
Updated Vanguard fund information available


Oh, wait. I got one pushing 529 plans, Are you missing out on over $16,000? and Live video webcast: Vanguard CEO Tim Buckley and Chief Investment Officer Greg Davis look ahead to 2019

But nothing about ETFs, and nothing about PAS.
Are you still on the mutual-fund-only platform?

HawkeyePierce
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by HawkeyePierce » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:19 pm

I truly do not understand why this board gets so hung up on Vanguard's marketing emails. :confused

Silence Dogood
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by Silence Dogood » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:29 pm

skeptical1 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:11 pm
I've been a satisfied Vanguard mutual fund investor for many years. I'm content to stick with mutual funds and don't see any major advantages with ETFs given my "buy and hold forever" strategy. I appreciate being informed of my options; however, I'm getting so much unsolicited ETF info from Vanguard, I'm beginning to wonder if it stands to gain from switching its customer's mutual fund holding with ETFs. So, am I being overly suspicious and skeptical? Anyone else have thoughts about this?
Call Vanguard and let them know how you feel. Nothing will change otherwise.

Unfortunately, I believe Vanguard has a bad marketing department.

Topic Author
skeptical1
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Location: Sacramento

Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by skeptical1 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:06 pm

I need to clarify my original post. I'm not complaining, I'm just curious. Vanguard already has me as a customer, and as I stated previously, I'm satisfied. My question is whether it's to Vanguard's advantage to have me switch some of my holding to ETFs rather than remain 100% in funds. Are ETFs less costly to administer? Does Vanguard want more bragging rights about ETFs? Are they simply keeping me informed?

Lucere
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by Lucere » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:12 pm

skeptical1 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:06 pm
I need to clarify my original post. I'm not complaining, I'm just curious. Vanguard already has me as a customer, and as I stated previously, I'm satisfied. My question is whether it's to Vanguard's advantage to have me switch some of my holding to ETFs rather than remain 100% in funds. Are ETFs less costly to administer? Does Vanguard want more bragging rights about ETFs? Are they simply keeping me informed?
I posted the same question in June and people thought I was being overly suspicious. Here’s that post, which has some answers to the question of why Vanguard would benefit.

viewtopic.php?t=284268

Topic Author
skeptical1
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Location: Sacramento

Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by skeptical1 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:28 pm

Thanks Lucere for responding. Interesting how similar our questions were, and yet, for me, the question still remains. I don't buy into the potential litigation issue and believe there must be some benefit for Vanguard for promoting ETFs to MF holders. It is funny how "suspicious" folks are about the question. Thanks again.

Fryxell
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by Fryxell » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:55 pm

skeptical1 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:28 pm
Thanks Lucere for responding. Interesting how similar our questions were, and yet, for me, the question still remains. I don't buy into the potential litigation issue and believe there must be some benefit for Vanguard for promoting ETFs to MF holders. It is funny how "suspicious" folks are about the question. Thanks again.
I’ve read somewhere on this site that Vanguard employee bonuses are partly based on their cost reductions. If so, that would explain it. The ETFs can lead to a lower average expense ratio because, unlike mutual funds, the ETFs don’t need to absorb the cost of bid-ask spreads.

bluquark
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Re: ETF Education vs Marketing from Vanguard

Post by bluquark » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:10 pm

Gus Sauter, former CIO of Vanguard, said on the Bogleheads podcast that one of the original appeals of ETFs for Vanguard is that giant outflows from mutual funds in bad market conditions could create a liquidity crisis for Vanguard. That's why Vanguard mutual funds have the 30-day restriction: to try and keep away the kind of trigger-happy investor that would panic sell, and attract only stay-the-course Boglehead types. However, there is no guarantee that this measure is enough.

On the other hand, with ETFs, the market automatically provides the liquidity -- outflows cannot cause problems for Vanguard as such. If an ETF sells at a discount to NAV, them's the breaks, blame "the market" -- on the other hand, Vanguard is required to offer NAV when you sell one of their funds.

Gus was talking of their thinking in the 1990s, and I don't know whether this is still a live concern or moot for other reasons (nothing bad happened to Vanguard funds in the 2008 crash that I heard of), but it could be a motive. More generally, it illustrates that in a number of ways, ETFs move responsibility to deal with problems and correctly manage trades from Vanguard over to the crowd of market makers and arbitrageurs, so it must feel more cozy and comfortable for Vanguard managers to have a greater proportion of AUM in ETF form.

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