Best CD rates thread

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
MikeG62
Posts: 2243
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by MikeG62 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:57 pm

mpnret wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:44 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:49 am
To your specific question, the answer depends on when in January that CD matures. Here's one option. Set up the $50K transfer for the latest possible date. So, let's assume you initially funded the CD on Oct 15th. You can call PSECU as late at Nov 14th to add the "auto transfer" feature and set that transfer to begin as late as 30 days from that time - or Dec 14th. Your Marcus $50K will get in the CD at that time and the monthly transfer after that will be January 14th. Does that get you far enough into January for the $100K CD to have matured? If so, invest that $100K over the ensuing two months in the CD ($50K on Jan 14th and $50K on Feb 14th). If not, do you have access to $50K from another source you can use temporarily to meet the January call until the CD matures?
Did anyone confirm it works this way? If you set up auto transfer when you open the CD it must begin within 30 days. If you don't set it up at opening you have to call within that 30 days to set it up. Will they really give you another 30 days from call date or is it still 30 days from opening date.
Not only did I call about it, but my auto transfers are set up.

You have 30 days from opening to have the auto transfer added to your CD and 30 days from the time the auto transfer is added to initiate the first auto transfer.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:17 pm

MikeG62 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:05 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:33 pm
...On a related note, I split my $300K so far between the 2-year and 3-year, but like MikeG62 (I think), I wish I had put it all in the 3-year, especially since I have a very large amount in other CDs maturing in about 27 months. We put it all in the 3-year for my wife. I'm putting $227K into a 3-year IRA CD as soon as the check from Vanguard arrives.
Nah, I did not go all in on the 36-month CD. When I opened the two CD’s, I split my initial contribution of $75K equally between the two.<snip>
I meant that I thought you had mentioned that you wished you had put it all in the 36-month CD, either here or in a PM, but maybe I'm not remembering correctly.
MikeG62 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:05 pm
Why did I not put 100% into the 36-month CD? I guess because who knows what interest rates are going to be 24-months from now. While I think rates will either be lower than, or at best in the range of, current rates, I could be wrong and rates could be higher. So I guess I am hedging a bit on that uncertainty.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I split mine between the 2-year and 3-year, but when we were deciding for my wife, I noted that she had a large amount in CDs maturing in about 27 months, and then I realized I had the same. If I had been thinking more clearly, I would have realized that I already had the roughly 2-year timeframe covered by the existing CDs, so from a laddering perspective, I would have been better off going all in on the PSECU 3-year.

The reason I didn't note that I had CDs maturing in 27 months is that these CDs are 3-year rising rate flexible CDs that increase the rate by 0.5% each year (3.0%, 3.5%, 4.0%), and also allow a penalty-free withdrawal on the 1y and 2y anniversary dates, so I entered them in my CD spreadsheet as 1-year CDs, with the intention of re-entering them as 1-year CDs at the increased rate on each anniversary date. So in my spreadsheet, they show as CDs maturing in three months. :oops:

My wife preferred to just enter them as 3-year CDs in her spreadsheet, so it was obvious they were maturing in 27 months.
MikeG62 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:05 pm
Ideally, I’d rather have these funds in muni bonds, but for the fact that muni’s are ridiculously overbought (have been for a year now) and current rates are simply unattractive (most certainly compared to the rates on these PSECU CD’s). Maybe 24-months from now that situation has changed and having some funds free up at that time may not be such a bad thing.
I'm somewhat agnostic on what the fixed-income alternative is; I just want the highest risk-adjusted expected return without too much work involved.

I bought a bunch of individual munis between late 2017 and mid 2018, as these seemed like the most attractive alternative at the time. Not wanting to take too much term risk, I basically built a rough monthly ladder out to about 3-year maturity, with $10K-$25K maturing each month (this where much of the auto deposits into the PSECU CDs will come from). I found buying munis to be a lot more work than buying Treasuries or CDs, since I felt I needed to look at each one carefully for risks I wasn't interested in taking, and I wanted to be careful not to put too much into any one state or municipality. So the more munis I bought, the harder it was to find attractive ones that weren't in states or municipalities that I didn't want to put more into.

I'd consider more individual munis in the future, but as you say, they aren't nearly as attractive now as they were then. I honestly haven't even looked in a few months, but I'll take your word for it that they're not worth looking at now.

From June 2018 through May 2019, I bought a bunch of individual Treasuries, all with maturities of 2 years or less, as those seemed most attractive at the time. All of those Treasuries have matured or been sold to buy attractive CDs, like the 3-year rising rate flex CDs. Buying Treasuries is a lot easier than buying munis, as there is no credit risk, but of course Treasuries are no longer very attractive now.

I enjoyed the period when munis and Treasuries were attractive, as I didn't have to consider joining more credit unions to get good CD deals, but now we're back to where that's the best game in town for high-yield, low-risk fixed income.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

MikeG62
Posts: 2243
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by MikeG62 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:27 am

Kevin M wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:17 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:05 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:33 pm
...On a related note, I split my $300K so far between the 2-year and 3-year, but like MikeG62 (I think), I wish I had put it all in the 3-year, especially since I have a very large amount in other CDs maturing in about 27 months. We put it all in the 3-year for my wife. I'm putting $227K into a 3-year IRA CD as soon as the check from Vanguard arrives.
Nah, I did not go all in on the 36-month CD. When I opened the two CD’s, I split my initial contribution of $75K equally between the two.<snip>
I meant that I thought you had mentioned that you wished you had put it all in the 36-month CD, either here or in a PM, but maybe I'm not remembering correctly.
You've got a pretty good memory Kevin. It was in a PM where I said maybe I'll end up wishing I had invested up to the NCUA insurance limit entirely in the 36-month CD :-)
Kevin M wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:17 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:05 pm
Ideally, I’d rather have these funds in muni bonds, but for the fact that muni’s are ridiculously overbought (have been for a year now) and current rates are simply unattractive (most certainly compared to the rates on these PSECU CD’s). Maybe 24-months from now that situation has changed and having some funds free up at that time may not be such a bad thing.
I'm somewhat agnostic on what the fixed-income alternative is; I just want the highest risk-adjusted expected return without too much work involved.

I bought a bunch of individual munis between late 2017 and mid 2018, as these seemed like the most attractive alternative at the time. Not wanting to take too much term risk, I basically built a rough monthly ladder out to about 3-year maturity, with $10K-$25K maturing each month (this where much of the auto deposits into the PSECU CDs will come from). I found buying munis to be a lot more work than buying Treasuries or CDs, since I felt I needed to look at each one carefully for risks I wasn't interested in taking, and I wanted to be careful not to put too much into any one state or municipality. So the more munis I bought, the harder it was to find attractive ones that weren't in states or municipalities that I didn't want to put more into.

I'd consider more individual munis in the future, but as you say, they aren't nearly as attractive now as they were then. I honestly haven't even looked in a few months, but I'll take your word for it that they're not worth looking at now.
I get my muni's through someone I have had a longstanding (two decade) relationship with at UBS. This grew out of a business relationship between my employer and UBS, where I was a key senior contact on my employers' side. Anyway, he and I speak periodically. He was honest enough to tell me back in early 2018 that I'd be better off buying Treasuries at that time than individual muni's as the after-tax yield to me was greater in the Treasuries (for comparable term and even considerably longer-term muni's). By point of fact, he has not surfaced a single muni bond for me to consider buying in well over a year now. Spoke with him a few weeks ago (on an unrelated topic) and he said to keep doing what I am doing (buying higher yielding taxable fixed income). He said, Mike eventually the situation will change and when it does, we will be big muni buyers, but that time is unfortunately not now.

The reason I'd rather buy muni's in my taxable accounts is that CD's eat into the space I have to Roth convert (i.e., the more taxable interest I have the less I can Roth convert at the lower marginal tax rates). Because of this, I would rather buy comparable term muni's (or even slightly longer term muni's) even at somewhat lower yields than taxable alternatives, but not if the rate spread is anywhere near what it is now. For example, 2-year AA or AAA rated muni's are currently yielding ~1.35% while 3-year are at ~1.55%-1.60%. The yields for NJ paper (where I live) are quite a bit lower than those meager rates too. I could earn more in the PSECU 36-month CD even if my marginal rate were 50% (which it is not).

For some background, here are three articles from the WSJ written over the last few months that talk to the lack of supply and strong demand in the muni market:

Investors Want Municipal Bonds, but Issuance Is Rare
The 2017 tax overhaul and economic strength filling government coffers discourage offerings
https://www.wsj.com/articles/investors- ... 1563442202

New Tax Laws Drive More Americans Into Muni Bonds
High earners hit hardest by overhaul seek to generate tax-free income
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-tax-la ... 1565170202

Money Managers Gain Sway Over Muni Market
More than half of the amount held by households sits in separately managed accounts or mutual funds
https://www.wsj.com/articles/money-mana ... 1570629205

For complete transparency, I did invest a few hundred grand (from maturing Treasuries) in Vanguard's high-yield national muni fund (VWALX) a few months ago. Fund yield was ~2.40% at that time. Although VG considers this a long-term muni fund, the weighted average duration is around 6 years, making it much closer to an intermediate term than long-term muni bond fund. VG appears to look only at the stated maturity of the underlying bonds, without regard to their call provisions, in classifying the bond term. Also, this is a high yield muni fund. It works for me because it's a tiny share of my total muni holdings, the rest of which are all AAA or AA rated bonds. It may not be right for others.

Kevin M wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:17 pm
From June 2018 through May 2019, I bought a bunch of individual Treasuries, all with maturities of 2 years or less, as those seemed most attractive at the time. All of those Treasuries have matured or been sold to buy attractive CDs, like the 3-year rising rate flex CDs. Buying Treasuries is a lot easier than buying munis, as there is no credit risk, but of course Treasuries are no longer very attractive now.

I enjoyed the period when munis and Treasuries were attractive, as I didn't have to consider joining more credit unions to get good CD deals, but now we're back to where that's the best game in town for high-yield, low-risk fixed income.

Kevin
I totally agree with you here.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

mpnret
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 9:16 am

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by mpnret » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:20 am

MikeG62 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:57 pm
mpnret wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:44 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:49 am
To your specific question, the answer depends on when in January that CD matures. Here's one option. Set up the $50K transfer for the latest possible date. So, let's assume you initially funded the CD on Oct 15th. You can call PSECU as late at Nov 14th to add the "auto transfer" feature and set that transfer to begin as late as 30 days from that time - or Dec 14th. Your Marcus $50K will get in the CD at that time and the monthly transfer after that will be January 14th. Does that get you far enough into January for the $100K CD to have matured? If so, invest that $100K over the ensuing two months in the CD ($50K on Jan 14th and $50K on Feb 14th). If not, do you have access to $50K from another source you can use temporarily to meet the January call until the CD matures?
Did anyone confirm it works this way? If you set up auto transfer when you open the CD it must begin within 30 days. If you don't set it up at opening you have to call within that 30 days to set it up. Will they really give you another 30 days from call date or is it still 30 days from opening date.
Not only did I call about it, but my auto transfers are set up.

You have 30 days from opening to have the auto transfer added to your CD and 30 days from the time the auto transfer is added to initiate the first auto transfer.
Thanks, this is great info. I wired 100,000. from Synchrony to my PSECU account to get a 36 month CD open and rate set. Now I can wait close to 30 days pick a much larger amount to add and have another 30 days to see if I stick with that amount or lower it.
Kind of like market timing with a 60 day edge.

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:56 pm

MikeG62 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:27 am
For complete transparency, I did invest a few hundred grand (from maturing Treasuries) in Vanguard's high-yield national muni fund (VWALX) a few months ago. Fund yield was ~2.40% at that time. Although VG considers this a long-term muni fund, the weighted average duration is around 6 years, making it much closer to an intermediate term than long-term muni bond fund. VG appears to look only at the stated maturity of the underlying bonds, without regard to their call provisions, in classifying the bond term. Also, this is a high yield muni fund. It works for me because it's a tiny share of my total muni holdings, the rest of which are all AAA or AA rated bonds. It may not be right for others.
Actually, I think Vanguard does consider the call provisions in its maturity and duration numbers for muni bond funds. Since many long-term munis have short-term call dates, this artificially shortens the reported maturity/duration. When rates increase, bonds are less likely to get called, so the drop in share value can be much greater than indicated by duration.

This blog post by Harry Sit goes into some detail on this: Are Vanguard Long Term Muni Funds Really Long Term Or Just Long Term In Name Only?

At any rate, SEC yield for VWALX is 2.31%, which at my marginal tax rates of 27% fed and 8% state is a TEY of 3.27%. For comparison, VWLUX (long-term tax-exempt) SEC yield is 1.94%, and for me TEY = 2.75%. Durations are about the same (5.90 long term, 6.0 high yield), so you're definitely getting a credit-risk yield premium in the high-yield fund.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

international001
Posts: 1163
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:31 pm

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by international001 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:12 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:17 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:05 pm
Why did I not put 100% into the 36-month CD? I guess because who knows what interest rates are going to be 24-months from now. While I think rates will either be lower than, or at best in the range of, current rates, I could be wrong and rates could be higher. So I guess I am hedging a bit on that uncertainty.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I split mine between the 2-year and 3-year, but when we were deciding for my wife, I noted that she had a large amount in CDs maturing in about 27 months, and then I realized I had the same. If I had been thinking more clearly, I would have realized that I already had the roughly 2-year timeframe covered by the existing CDs, so from a laddering perspective, I would have been better off going all in on the PSECU 3-year.
Well... nobody knows the future, but the market expects less yield for the next 5 years. So I think it's a good way of beating the market, just because of these promotional rates.

MikeG62
Posts: 2243
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by MikeG62 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:58 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:56 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:27 am
For complete transparency, I did invest a few hundred grand (from maturing Treasuries) in Vanguard's high-yield national muni fund (VWALX) a few months ago. Fund yield was ~2.40% at that time. Although VG considers this a long-term muni fund, the weighted average duration is around 6 years, making it much closer to an intermediate term than long-term muni bond fund. VG appears to look only at the stated maturity of the underlying bonds, without regard to their call provisions, in classifying the bond term. Also, this is a high yield muni fund. It works for me because it's a tiny share of my total muni holdings, the rest of which are all AAA or AA rated bonds. It may not be right for others.
Actually, I think Vanguard does consider the call provisions in its maturity and duration numbers for muni bond funds. Since many long-term munis have short-term call dates, this artificially shortens the reported maturity/duration. When rates increase, bonds are less likely to get called, so the drop in share value can be much greater than indicated by duration.

This blog post by Harry Sit goes into some detail on this: Are Vanguard Long Term Muni Funds Really Long Term Or Just Long Term In Name Only?

Kevin
Kevin,

You make an excellent point about the weighted average duration being potentially misleading in a rising interest rate environment. It makes intuitive sense that a bond shouldn't get called (all other things being equal) if current market rates are higher than the coupon on the existing bond.

Having said this, I have been buying individual muni bonds since the late 1990's (probably have owned in the aggregate 75-100 individual muni bonds over that span of time) and I can't recall a single instance where I owned a bond that could be called early and it wasn't called early. I'd add in as well that the vast majority of the bonds I have purchased were callable. Perhaps there are other factors that influence the decision to call a bond (such as an immediate need to raise additional funds)?

I agree that Vanguard is taking the call provisions into account when coming up with the weighted average duration. They don't seem to be when classifying the bond fund as they categorize it in the long-term bond fund category. In an environment where the underlying bonds are typically getting called (which in my experience would be normal) it would seem to me that this fund will behave more like an intermediate term muni bond fund. So I guess that was my point. Do you agree?
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

User avatar
SlowMovingInvestor
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:27 am

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:34 pm

Never really done any wiring before. I assume all you need is the routing number and your account number, and the name on the account ?

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:09 pm

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:34 pm
Never really done any wiring before. I assume all you need is the routing number and your account number, and the name on the account ?
That's all PSECU says you need. They didn't provide me with any special wire instructions. My local bank also wanted the address, so I used the street address shown on their website. Have done two wires from the local bank, and one from Fidelity (online, easy), and they all worked great.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:17 pm

MikeG62 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:58 pm
Kevin,

You make an excellent point about the weighted average duration being potentially misleading in a rising interest rate environment. It makes intuitive sense that a bond shouldn't get called (all other things being equal) if current market rates are higher than the coupon on the existing bond.

Having said this, I have been buying individual muni bonds since the late 1990's (probably have owned in the aggregate 75-100 individual muni bonds over that span of time) and I can't recall a single instance where I owned a bond that could be called early and it wasn't called early. I'd add in as well that the vast majority of the bonds I have purchased were callable. Perhaps there are other factors that influence the decision to call a bond (such as an immediate need to raise additional funds)?
Well, yields have been generally falling since 1990 (actually since 1982). Maybe that explains it.
MikeG62 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:58 pm
I agree that Vanguard is taking the call provisions into account when coming up with the weighted average duration. They don't seem to be when classifying the bond fund as they categorize it in the long-term bond fund category.
Maybe they classify them as long-term because they know the duration isn't a reliable indicator of term risk.
MikeG62 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:58 pm
In an environment where the underlying bonds are typically getting called (which in my experience would be normal) it would seem to me that this fund will behave more like an intermediate term muni bond fund. So I guess that was my point. Do you agree?
Apparently that's not the case when yields increase, which Harry Sit did a good job of demonstrating in his blog post. Long-term muni lost nearly twice as much as intermediate-term muni during the period examined, even though the initial duration was only about one year more. During the period examined, the gap in duration between the funds grew from about one year to about two years.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

HeelaMonster
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:46 am

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by HeelaMonster » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:35 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:09 pm
SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:34 pm
Never really done any wiring before. I assume all you need is the routing number and your account number, and the name on the account ?
That's all PSECU says you need. They didn't provide me with any special wire instructions. My local bank also wanted the address, so I used the street address shown on their website. Have done two wires from the local bank, and one from Fidelity (online, easy), and they all worked great.
I was sitting with my banker as she did the wire, and she showed me where their system automatically pulled up all the needed info about PSECU (full name, address, etc), as soon as she typed in routing number. Wiring was the easiest part of entire process.

MikeG62
Posts: 2243
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by MikeG62 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:37 am

Kevin M wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm
Some more PSECU data points.

...On my IRA transfer, I faxed the transfer form to PSECU on Friday at about 1:15 PM PT, with instructions to FAX to Vanguard, and when I logged into Vanguard Monday morning, the money had already been withdrawn from my account. Since both Vanguard and PSECU are in Pennsylvania, I assume the check will get to PSECU this week.

Kevin,

Has the check from VG to PSECU for the IRA CD posted at PSECU yet?

In my case, Fidelity withdrew the funds from my IRA on a Tuesday, mailed the check on Wednesday and it showed up in the IRA CD at PSECU the following Tuesday. Initially the IRA CD showed up online Tuesday mid-day with a zero balance and then later that day it reflected the amount of the check. They told me it would happen that way.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

User avatar
SlowMovingInvestor
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:27 am

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:12 am

HeelaMonster wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:35 pm
I was sitting with my banker as she did the wire, and she showed me where their system automatically pulled up all the needed info about PSECU (full name, address, etc), as soon as she typed in routing number. Wiring was the easiest part of entire process.
How long before it's credited ? I suspect a human at PSECU may eyeball transactions on a new account.

HeelaMonster
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:46 am

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by HeelaMonster » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:05 am

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:12 am
HeelaMonster wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:35 pm
I was sitting with my banker as she did the wire, and she showed me where their system automatically pulled up all the needed info about PSECU (full name, address, etc), as soon as she typed in routing number. Wiring was the easiest part of entire process.
How long before it's credited ? I suspect a human at PSECU may eyeball transactions on a new account.
I could see that it had left my local account by the time I got home from bank. This was in the mid afternoon, and it was "pulled in" by PSECU overnight (or at least, after business hours) and credited to my new account immediately, so it was waiting for me when I woke up. I purchased CD with my morning coffee. (My start-to-finish experience is spelled out earlier in this thread... but, as said, wiring and completing the transaction were the easy parts)

MikeG62
Posts: 2243
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by MikeG62 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:06 am

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:12 am
HeelaMonster wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:35 pm
I was sitting with my banker as she did the wire, and she showed me where their system automatically pulled up all the needed info about PSECU (full name, address, etc), as soon as she typed in routing number. Wiring was the easiest part of entire process.
How long before it's credited ? I suspect a human at PSECU may eyeball transactions on a new account.
I've done two wires from Fidelity to PSECU. Both posted at PSECU within 3 hours of clicking the submit button on the Fidelity Website.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:02 am

Some comments on those PSECU addons days (for those who are thinking of optimizing :-) )

I already had two addons applied to my CDs. From my observations, the money was debited from the funding account (savings or checking) before 5.30am on the funding day. This means that you probably have to have money in the funding account on the prior business day.

The addon takes place on any day of the week, including weekends.

The worst day for the addon is on Monday, because you would have to have funds in the funding account by Friday. When you do this, you will get three days of very low interests when the money sits in the funding account (Fri,Sat,Sun). If it is a long weekend, your loss increases to four days if the addon day happens to be on the day after the holidays.

With this in mind, if you only plan to have a limited number of addons in the coming months, you can plan your funding day to minimize on the occurrence of addons that happen on Mondays.
My signature has been deleted.

mpnret
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 9:16 am

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by mpnret » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:13 am

Called Synchrony to do wire transfer to PSECU. Quick and easy call. Money showed up at PSECU in a few hours.

User avatar
CWRadio
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:04 am
Location: In the Michigan ionosphere

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by CWRadio » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:54 am

Any advice on how to invest $500,000 from my IRA into Pennsylvania State Employees Credit Union (PSECU) 2 year CD and still have insurance protection? Thanks Paul

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:55 pm

MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:37 am
Kevin M wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm
...On my IRA transfer, I faxed the transfer form to PSECU on Friday at about 1:15 PM PT, with instructions to FAX to Vanguard, and when I logged into Vanguard Monday morning, the money had already been withdrawn from my account. Since both Vanguard and PSECU are in Pennsylvania, I assume the check will get to PSECU this week.
Kevin,

Has the check from VG to PSECU for the IRA CD posted at PSECU yet?
No, I called this morning, and the check wasn't there yet.
MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:37 am
In my case, Fidelity withdrew the funds from my IRA on a Tuesday, mailed the check on Wednesday and it showed up in the IRA CD at PSECU the following Tuesday. Initially the IRA CD showed up online Tuesday mid-day with a zero balance and then later that day it reflected the amount of the check. They told me it would happen that way.
Thanks for that. Since VG withdrew amount on Monday, I'm hoping they sent the check on Tuesday. PSECU still has one more mail pickup today, so maybe later today, but hopefully Monday at the latest, which would be consistent with your experience.

Good to know what to expect when it gets there.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:01 pm

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:12 am
HeelaMonster wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:35 pm
I was sitting with my banker as she did the wire, and she showed me where their system automatically pulled up all the needed info about PSECU (full name, address, etc), as soon as she typed in routing number. Wiring was the easiest part of entire process.
How long before it's credited ? I suspect a human at PSECU may eyeball transactions on a new account.
First I was told by PSECU rep that wires are posted hourly from 8am - 4pm ET. Later I was told that it might post as late as 6pm automatically if it's a small amount. I got the impression that for larger amounts it would need human review.

The two wires from our local bank went out about noon PT, so 3pm ET, and were posted at PSECU same day--I think within an hour, so before their 4pm ET cutoff. These were fairly large amounts, $200K - $300K.

Fidelity wire was a small amount, $100. I don't remember when I initiated it, but it was well before 4pm ET, and it posted same day.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:15 pm

CWRadio wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:54 am
Any advice on how to invest $500,000 from my IRA into Pennsylvania State Employees Credit Union (PSECU) 2 year CD and still have insurance protection? Thanks Paul
Only if the CU has additional deposit insurance on top of NCUA. One of my credit unions has an extra $250K, but I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the PSECU literature or website. Here's what I see on this PSECU web page:
PSECU wrote:IRAs are insured separately from other PSECU Shares. Traditional and Roth IRAs are insured up to $250,000.
So it looks like $250K is max, so you have two options for a 2-year CD.

1. put 235,649, which will grow to about $250,000 in two years at 3% APY. The initial balance is calculated with this spreadsheet formula: =-PV(3%,2,0,250000).

2. Put $250,000 into the CD, and take the interest as distributions from your IRA.

I assume #1 is the best choice for most people. I did #1, but $227K for a 3y CD.

Incidentally, in a taxable account, #2 probably is better if you are limited to $250K, since you'd earn 3% on a larger amount, and can earn maybe 2% on the accumulated interest payments. But in a taxable account, it's easy to get more NCUA insurance, either with a joint account or with a trust/POD account. I have three beneficiaries on my taxable account, so am insured up to $750K.

In an IRA I'd go for the 3-year rather than the 2-year, as it puts off having to potentially deal with another IRA transfer for an additional year, 25 basis points is a reasonable incremental interest rate for extending maturity by one year, and the Treasury yield curve is flat between 2y and 3y maturities, both at 1.58%. The latter indicates that the Treasury market is predicting that yields won't increase between two and three years, so the 3-year seems like a better deal from a term-risk perspective.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

MikeG62
Posts: 2243
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by MikeG62 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:00 pm

MikeG62 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:57 pm
mpnret wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:44 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:49 am
To your specific question, the answer depends on when in January that CD matures. Here's one option. Set up the $50K transfer for the latest possible date. So, let's assume you initially funded the CD on Oct 15th. You can call PSECU as late at Nov 14th to add the "auto transfer" feature and set that transfer to begin as late as 30 days from that time - or Dec 14th. Your Marcus $50K will get in the CD at that time and the monthly transfer after that will be January 14th. Does that get you far enough into January for the $100K CD to have matured? If so, invest that $100K over the ensuing two months in the CD ($50K on Jan 14th and $50K on Feb 14th). If not, do you have access to $50K from another source you can use temporarily to meet the January call until the CD matures?
Did anyone confirm it works this way? If you set up auto transfer when you open the CD it must begin within 30 days. If you don't set it up at opening you have to call within that 30 days to set it up. Will they really give you another 30 days from call date or is it still 30 days from opening date.
Not only did I call about it, but my auto transfers are set up.

You have 30 days from opening to have the auto transfer added to your CD and 30 days from the time the auto transfer is added to initiate the first auto transfer.
My first auto transfer posted today - right on schedule. No issues, no problems.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:28 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:02 am
Some comments on those PSECU addons days (for those who are thinking of optimizing :-) )

I already had two addons applied to my CDs. From my observations, the money was debited from the funding account (savings or checking) before 5.30am on the funding day. This means that you probably have to have money in the funding account on the prior business day.

The addon takes place on any day of the week, including weekends.

The worst day for the addon is on Monday, because you would have to have funds in the funding account by Friday. When you do this, you will get three days of very low interests when the money sits in the funding account (Fri,Sat,Sun). If it is a long weekend, your loss increases to four days if the addon day happens to be on the day after the holidays.

With this in mind, if you only plan to have a limited number of addons in the coming months, you can plan your funding day to minimize on the occurrence of addons that happen on Mondays.
Great point!

I developed a simple spreadsheet to calculate the best day of the month to use assuming first add-on is in November 2019 and last is in December 2021. I gave a rank to each day, Monday = 0, Sunday = 1, Saturday = 2, and all other days = 3. I calculate the average of the day rankings, the goal being to get the highest average. I get the highest average for days 3 and 10, both at 2.23. Next highest are days 7 and 14 at 2.19. The day I selected was 15, with one of the lower averages at 2.12.

The best add-on days have 3 Mondays, the worst have 5 (the 13th is an example, with average rank 2.04), and my original 15th has 4 Mondays.

Has anybody called to see if you can change the add-on date? Based on the analysis above, I think I'd change mine to the 10th if I could.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:57 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:28 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:02 am
Some comments on those PSECU addons days (for those who are thinking of optimizing :-) )

I already had two addons applied to my CDs. From my observations, the money was debited from the funding account (savings or checking) before 5.30am on the funding day. This means that you probably have to have money in the funding account on the prior business day.

The addon takes place on any day of the week, including weekends.

The worst day for the addon is on Monday, because you would have to have funds in the funding account by Friday. When you do this, you will get three days of very low interests when the money sits in the funding account (Fri,Sat,Sun). If it is a long weekend, your loss increases to four days if the addon day happens to be on the day after the holidays.

With this in mind, if you only plan to have a limited number of addons in the coming months, you can plan your funding day to minimize on the occurrence of addons that happen on Mondays.
Great point!

I developed a simple spreadsheet to calculate the best day of the month to use assuming first add-on is in November 2019 and last is in December 2021. I gave a rank to each day, Monday = 0, Sunday = 1, Saturday = 2, and all other days = 3. I calculate the average of the day rankings, the goal being to get the highest average. I get the highest average for days 3 and 10, both at 2.23. Next highest are days 7 and 14 at 2.19. The day I selected was 15, with one of the lower averages at 2.12.

The best add-on days have 3 Mondays, the worst have 5 (the 13th is an example, with average rank 2.04), and my original 15th has 4 Mondays.

Has anybody called to see if you can change the add-on date? Based on the analysis above, I think I'd change mine to the 10th if I could.

Kevin
How about holidays? It gets complicated. :-) I find I cannot automate the sending of money to PSECU from Vanguard. I had to work out the date for the transfer each month.

I have changed the add-on date. Just call. I do think you can only change within the first 30 days.
My signature has been deleted.

User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:04 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:28 pm
I developed a simple spreadsheet to calculate the best day of the month to use assuming first add-on is in November 2019 and last is in December 2021. I gave a rank to each day, Monday = 0, Sunday = 1, Saturday = 2, and all other days = 3. I calculate the average of the day rankings, the goal being to get the highest average. I get the highest average for days 3 and 10, both at 2.23. Next highest are days 7 and 14 at 2.19. The day I selected was 15, with one of the lower averages at 2.12.

The best add-on days have 3 Mondays, the worst have 5 (the 13th is an example, with average rank 2.04), and my original 15th has 4 Mondays.
Actually Saturday is as good as Tue through Fri.

How about using the following to assign values instead?

Tue through Sat : value of 1
Sun : value of 2
Mon : value of 3

This value is the number of interest loss days and the average value computed has a tangible meaning. You can also directly compare the values, because, for example, Tuesday is "twice as good as" Sunday since you only lose one day interest instead of two. You can't do this with a "ranking" system.

Account for holidays if you can too. :-)
My signature has been deleted.

mav12
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:36 pm

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by mav12 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:50 pm

Would you guys like to have our community contribute and improve the spreadsheets? Post them and get the input.

User avatar
Ricchan
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 am
Location: Firestone D Floor

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Ricchan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:16 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:04 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:28 pm
I developed a simple spreadsheet to calculate the best day of the month to use assuming first add-on is in November 2019 and last is in December 2021. I gave a rank to each day, Monday = 0, Sunday = 1, Saturday = 2, and all other days = 3. I calculate the average of the day rankings, the goal being to get the highest average. I get the highest average for days 3 and 10, both at 2.23. Next highest are days 7 and 14 at 2.19. The day I selected was 15, with one of the lower averages at 2.12.

The best add-on days have 3 Mondays, the worst have 5 (the 13th is an example, with average rank 2.04), and my original 15th has 4 Mondays.
Actually Saturday is as good as Tue through Fri.

How about using the following to assign values instead?

Tue through Sat : value of 1
Sun : value of 2
Mon : value of 3

This value is the number of interest loss days and the average value computed has a tangible meaning. You can also directly compare the values, because, for example, Tuesday is "twice as good as" Sunday since you only lose one day interest instead of two. You can't do this with a "ranking" system.

Account for holidays if you can too. :-)
I wrote a script to calculate the cost in terms of additional days of lost interest for any given starting day for any given time period. Click the "run" button at the top of the page produce output. https://repl.it/@ricchan/RecurringContributionDay

For each starting day (e.g. 2019-10-31), it prints two lines. The first is a list of single letter abbreviations for which day of the week the recurring date falls into each month. "R" is Thursday, "U" is Sunday. The second is a list of the number of additional days of lost interest, assuming the funds need to arrive in the non-interest bearing account the day before the recurring transaction. So, for Sunday, the cost is 1; Monday is 2; all other days are 0.

The total cost of additional days of lost interest for each starting date is shown at the start of the second line.

You can tweak the script by changing any of the variables. Some that might be of interest are:
  • date_first: The first date candidate to consider. I use 10/31/2019. You can change it to e.g. 11/01/2019 if you don't care about October.
  • date_max: Basically the maturity date of the CD. I use 10/30/2022 for the 3 year CD.
I didn't consider holidays because it would require importing some library that has knowledge of not only the holidays, but also which ones are considered banking holidays. Either that, or manually add them in. Both of those sound like a pain to me, but if anyone knows of a better way to do it (or is willing to just do it themselves), feel free to fork/edit the code and share. :)

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:53 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:04 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:28 pm
I developed a simple spreadsheet to calculate the best day of the month to use assuming first add-on is in November 2019 and last is in December 2021. I gave a rank to each day, Monday = 0, Sunday = 1, Saturday = 2, and all other days = 3. I calculate the average of the day rankings, the goal being to get the highest average. I get the highest average for days 3 and 10, both at 2.23. Next highest are days 7 and 14 at 2.19. The day I selected was 15, with one of the lower averages at 2.12.

The best add-on days have 3 Mondays, the worst have 5 (the 13th is an example, with average rank 2.04), and my original 15th has 4 Mondays.
Actually Saturday is as good as Tue through Fri.
Ah, thanks for the catch!
indexfundfan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:04 pm
How about using the following to assign values instead?

Tue through Sat : value of 1
Sun : value of 2
Mon : value of 3

This value is the number of interest loss days and the average value computed has a tangible meaning. You can also directly compare the values, because, for example, Tuesday is "twice as good as" Sunday since you only lose one day interest instead of two. You can't do this with a "ranking" system.

Account for holidays if you can too. :-)
Without accounting for holidays initially, tried your suggestion as well as my ranking scheme, corrected for Saturday, and the results are the same. Best month days for my assumptions are 3, 7 10 and 14. With my ranking system these get the high value of 1.615, compared for example to the 15th at 1.540 and the 13th at 1.500. Using your system, for which the lower average score is better, 3,7,10 and 14 get low average score of 0.385, compared to 15th at 0.462 and 13th at 0.500.

You do have a point though about the interpretation of the results. If I take the sum of the "scores" using your system, instead of the average, it gives the total number of lost interest days for the period under consideration. The ranking results are the same, with 3, 7, 10 and 14 having 10 days of lost interest, 15th has 12, and 13th has 13. So the worst day has only three more days of lost interest through Dec 2021, which puts it into better context.

To consider holidays, I can view holidays for any that fall on a month day that I would or could consider, which pretty much would be the 1st through the 15th. I note that 9/7/2020 is labor day, so that knocks the 7th out of the top four, since it adds an extra day of lost interest. There are no holidays on the 3rd, 10th or 14th of any month, so these appear to be the best choices for my assumptions.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:11 pm

mav12 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:50 pm
Would you guys like to have our community contribute and improve the spreadsheets? Post them and get the input.
Mine is a kludge at this point, having to change the day of month, then copy/paste the rank or days of lost interest for each month day. I think this could be done better in something like a pivot table, but I haven't gone there yet. Here are some elements of the spreadsheet.

Columns for year, month, and deposit day, where month is incremented by one in each row, and deposit day is constant--the day of month I'm testing So something like

2019 11 10
2019 12 10
2020 01 10

etc.

The deposit day (10 in the example above) is entered into a cell at the top of the spreadsheet, and the day of month in each row uses this value.

Use DATE to calculate the date from those three columns, which translates to DATE(2019, 11, 10) for the first row.

Use WEEKDAY to calculate the numeric day of week for each date. I use type = 2 so Monday = 1. Not required, but to help with the visual scan, I have a column showing the 3-character day abbreviation, so something like =TEXT(D3,"ddd"), where the date is in cell D3. So, for 11/10/2019, day of week is 7, or Sun.

To get days of lost interest for date, I use something like =IF(E3=1, 2, IF(E3=7 , 1, 0)), where the numeric day of week is in cell E3. To get total days of lost interest, use SUM to add up all the values calculated with the days of lost interest formula.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:44 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:53 pm
Without accounting for holidays initially, tried your suggestion as well as my ranking scheme, corrected for Saturday, and the results are the same. Best month days for my assumptions are 3, 7 10 and 14. With my ranking system these get the high value of 1.615, compared for example to the 15th at 1.540 and the 13th at 1.500. Using your system, for which the lower average score is better, 3,7,10 and 14 get low average score of 0.385, compared to 15th at 0.462 and 13th at 0.500.

You do have a point though about the interpretation of the results. If I take the sum of the "scores" using your system, instead of the average, it gives the total number of lost interest days for the period under consideration. The ranking results are the same, with 3, 7, 10 and 14 having 10 days of lost interest, 15th has 12, and 13th has 13. So the worst day has only three more days of lost interest through Dec 2021, which puts it into better context.

To consider holidays, I can view holidays for any that fall on a month day that I would or could consider, which pretty much would be the 1st through the 15th. I note that 9/7/2020 is labor day, so that knocks the 7th out of the top four, since it adds an extra day of lost interest. There are no holidays on the 3rd, 10th or 14th of any month, so these appear to be the best choices for my assumptions.

Kevin
Very interesting results. So 3rd, 7th, 10th and 14th are the best if taken through Dec 2021.

Note: a holiday affects the cost value of the next day, not the day itself. For example, for the Labor Day 9/7/2020 (Monday) that you mentioned, the cost value of 9/7/20 remains at 3. It is 9/8/20 which is adversely affected. It's cost value is now one plus the cost value of the prior day, giving it a total of 1 + 3 = 4.

So the holiday check in this case should really be to see if there are any holidays on the 2nd, 6th, 9th and 13th.
My signature has been deleted.

User avatar
Ricchan
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 am
Location: Firestone D Floor

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Ricchan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:11 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:53 pm
If I take the sum of the "scores" using your system, instead of the average, it gives the total number of lost interest days for the period under consideration. The ranking results are the same, with 3, 7, 10 and 14 having 10 days of lost interest, 15th has 12, and 13th has 13. So the worst day has only three more days of lost interest through Dec 2021, which puts it into better context.
Using the script I posted earlier, here are the days of lost interest for each starting day in the month of November, going through Dec 31, 2021.

In addition to 3, 7, 10, and 14, I also see 21, 24, and 28 as having 10 days of lost interest.

Code: Select all

2019-11-01 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-02 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-03 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-04 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-05 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-06 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-07 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-08 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-09 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-10 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-11 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-12 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-13 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-14 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-15 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-16 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-17 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-18 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-19 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-20 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-21 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-22 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-23 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-24 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-25 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-26 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-27 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-28 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-29 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFUMRSTRUWFMW
        11 01001002000010012000010020

2019-11-30 SMRSMRSTRUWFMWSUTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02002000010020010010020000
        

User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:18 pm

Ricchan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:11 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:53 pm
If I take the sum of the "scores" using your system, instead of the average, it gives the total number of lost interest days for the period under consideration. The ranking results are the same, with 3, 7, 10 and 14 having 10 days of lost interest, 15th has 12, and 13th has 13. So the worst day has only three more days of lost interest through Dec 2021, which puts it into better context.
Using the script I posted earlier, here are the days of lost interest for each starting day in the month of November, going through Dec 31, 2021.

In addition to 3, 7, 10, and 14, I also see 21, 24, and 28 as having 10 days of lost interest.

Code: Select all

2019-11-01 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-02 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-03 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-04 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-05 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-06 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-07 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-08 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-09 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-10 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-11 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-12 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-13 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-14 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-15 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-16 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-17 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-18 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-19 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-20 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-21 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-22 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-23 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-24 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-25 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-26 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-27 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-28 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-29 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFUMRSTRUWFMW
        11 01001002000010012000010020

2019-11-30 SMRSMRSTRUWFMWSUTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02002000010020010010020000
        
Are these your day abbreviations?

U=Sun
M=Mon
T=Tue
W=Wed
R=Thu
F=Fri
S=Sat
My signature has been deleted.

User avatar
Ricchan
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 am
Location: Firestone D Floor

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Ricchan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:21 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:44 pm
Note: a holiday affects the cost value of the next day, not the day itself. For example, for the Labor Day 9/7/2020 (Monday) that you mentioned, the cost value of 9/7/20 remains at 3. It is 9/8/20 which is adversely affected. It's cost value is now one plus the cost value of the prior day, giving it a total of 1 + 3 = 4.

So the holiday check in this case should really be to see if there are any holidays on the 2nd, 6th, 9th and 13th.
To put it another way:

A holiday on Mon would increase the score of the following Tue by +3, since it causes the preceding weekend to become a factor when it wasn't before.
A holiday on Tue, Wed, or Thurs would increase the score of the following day (Wed, Thurs, Fri) by +1.
A holiday on Fri would increase the score of ALL of the following Sat, Sun, and Mon by +1. So, Sat would become 1, Sun 2, and Mon 3.
A holiday on Sat or Sun would have no effect.
Last edited by Ricchan on Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ricchan
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 am
Location: Firestone D Floor

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Ricchan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:22 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:18 pm
Ricchan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:11 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:53 pm
If I take the sum of the "scores" using your system, instead of the average, it gives the total number of lost interest days for the period under consideration. The ranking results are the same, with 3, 7, 10 and 14 having 10 days of lost interest, 15th has 12, and 13th has 13. So the worst day has only three more days of lost interest through Dec 2021, which puts it into better context.
Using the script I posted earlier, here are the days of lost interest for each starting day in the month of November, going through Dec 31, 2021.

In addition to 3, 7, 10, and 14, I also see 21, 24, and 28 as having 10 days of lost interest.

Code: Select all

2019-11-01 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-02 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-03 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-04 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-05 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-06 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-07 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-08 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-09 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-10 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-11 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-12 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-13 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-14 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-15 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-16 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-17 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-18 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-19 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-20 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-21 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-22 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFMMRSTRUWFMW
        12 01001002000010022000010020

2019-11-23 SMRUMRSTRUWFMWSTTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02012000010020000010020000

2019-11-24 UTFMTFUWFMRSTRUWWSMRSTFUWF
        10 10020010020000100020000100

2019-11-25 MWSTWSMRSTFUWFMRRUTFUWSMRS
        11 20000020000100200100100200

2019-11-26 TRUWRUTFUWSMRSTFFMWSMRUTFU
        11 00100100100200000200201001

2019-11-27 WFMRFMWSMRUTFUWSSTRUTFMWSM
        13 00200200201001000001002002

2019-11-28 RSTFSTRUTFMWSMRUUWFMWSTRUT
        10 00000001002002011002000010

2019-11-29 FUWSUWFMWSTRUTFUMRSTRUWFMW
        11 01001002000010012000010020

2019-11-30 SMRSMRSTRUWFMWSUTFUWFMRSTR
        11 02002000010020010010020000
        
Are these your day abbreviations?

U=Sun
M=Mon
T=Tue
W=Wed
R=Thu
F=Fri
S=Sat
Yes, that's correct.

User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:30 pm

Ricchan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:21 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:44 pm
Note: a holiday affects the cost value of the next day, not the day itself. For example, for the Labor Day 9/7/2020 (Monday) that you mentioned, the cost value of 9/7/20 remains at 3. It is 9/8/20 which is adversely affected. It's cost value is now one plus the cost value of the prior day, giving it a total of 1 + 3 = 4.

So the holiday check in this case should really be to see if there are any holidays on the 2nd, 6th, 9th and 13th.
To put it another way:

A holiday on Mon would increase the score of the following Tue by +3, since it causes the preceding weekend to become a factor when it wasn't before.
A holiday on Tue, Wed, or Thurs would increase the score of the following day (Wed, Thurs, Fri) by +1.
A holiday on Fri would increase the score of ALL of the following Sat, Sun, and Mon by +1. So, Sat would become 1, Sun 2, and Mon 3.
A holiday on Sat or Sun would have no effect.
That looks about right.
My signature has been deleted.

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:58 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:44 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:53 pm
Without accounting for holidays initially, tried your suggestion as well as my ranking scheme, corrected for Saturday, and the results are the same. Best month days for my assumptions are 3, 7 10 and 14. With my ranking system these get the high value of 1.615, compared for example to the 15th at 1.540 and the 13th at 1.500. Using your system, for which the lower average score is better, 3,7,10 and 14 get low average score of 0.385, compared to 15th at 0.462 and 13th at 0.500.

You do have a point though about the interpretation of the results. If I take the sum of the "scores" using your system, instead of the average, it gives the total number of lost interest days for the period under consideration. The ranking results are the same, with 3, 7, 10 and 14 having 10 days of lost interest, 15th has 12, and 13th has 13. So the worst day has only three more days of lost interest through Dec 2021, which puts it into better context.

To consider holidays, I can view holidays for any that fall on a month day that I would or could consider, which pretty much would be the 1st through the 15th. I note that 9/7/2020 is labor day, so that knocks the 7th out of the top four, since it adds an extra day of lost interest. There are no holidays on the 3rd, 10th or 14th of any month, so these appear to be the best choices for my assumptions.

Kevin
Very interesting results. So 3rd, 7th, 10th and 14th are the best if taken through Dec 2021.
Actually, I screwed up, and didn't really follow your suggestion; I set the best days to 0 lost days of interest, when they actually should be 1, as you suggested, since you always lose at least one day of interest--the day before the deposit day, when the money sits in the essentially no interest share account. I'm assuming I can do a same-day wire from Vanguard (Flagship, no wire fee) or Fidelity.

Fixing this, and setting lost days of interest to 1, 2 or 3, but still not considering holidays, I created a pivot table for day of month 1 through 15 by just manually copying the set of rows for each period of Nov 2019 through Dec 2021, changing the day of month to 1 through 15 for each period, then creating a pivot table with deposit day of month as rows and sum of lost interest days as values. Best days of month still are 3, 7, 10 and 14, with 36 days of lost interest. Worst days are 6 and 13 with 39 days of lost interest. My original day of 15 has 38 days of lost interest.
indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:44 pm
Note: a holiday affects the cost value of the next day, not the day itself. For example, for the Labor Day 9/7/2020 (Monday) that you mentioned, the cost value of 9/7/20 remains at 3. It is 9/8/20 which is adversely affected. It's cost value is now one plus the cost value of the prior day, giving it a total of 1 + 3 = 4.

So the holiday check in this case should really be to see if there are any holidays on the 2nd, 6th, 9th and 13th.
Got it. Only holiday I see on those month days in my range is 9/6/2021, which is labor day, so that knocks out the 7th, leaving 3rd, 10th and 14th as the best days.

Thanks!

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:21 pm

Any even more meaningful metric for the PSECU CD add-on monthly day of deposit is total lost interest.

For example, for a deposit from a savings account earning 2.50% APY compounded daily, interest rate is 2.47% (=NOMINAL(2.50%, 365), daily interest rate is 0.0068% (divide nominal rate by 365), one day of lost interest on $10,000 is $0.68, two days is $1.35, and three days is $2.03 (using compound interest formula without intermediate rounding).

The best case of 36 days of lost interest for Nov 2019 through Dec 2021 is $24.41, and worst case of 39 days of lost interest is $26.44. So the worst minus best is only $2.03 of lost interest. :oops: Three days of lost interest. Holidays not considered, but the difference between worst and best is small enough to really not worry about.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:30 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:21 pm
Any even more meaningful metric for the PSECU CD add-on monthly day of deposit is total lost interest.

For example, for a deposit from a savings account earning 2.50% APY compounded daily, interest rate is 2.47% (=NOMINAL(2.50%, 365), daily interest rate is 0.0068% (divide nominal rate by 365), one day of lost interest on $10,000 is $0.68, two days is $1.35, and three days is $2.03 (using compound interest formula without intermediate rounding).

The best case of 36 days of lost interest for Nov 2019 through Dec 2021 is $24.41, and worst case of 39 days of lost interest is $26.44. So the worst minus best is only $2.03 of lost interest. :oops: Three days of lost interest. Holidays not considered, but the difference between worst and best is small enough to really not worry about.

Kevin
Yes, it did occurred to me that more than one month of interest is lost for those lengthy add-ons.

And all the work done to figure the best day only makes a difference of a few days. :oops:

If only we can get PSECU to make those add-on money transfers at the end of the day, instead of early in the morning...
My signature has been deleted.

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:22 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:30 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:21 pm
Any even more meaningful metric for the PSECU CD add-on monthly day of deposit is total lost interest.

For example, for a deposit from a savings account earning 2.50% APY compounded daily, interest rate is 2.47% (=NOMINAL(2.50%, 365), daily interest rate is 0.0068% (divide nominal rate by 365), one day of lost interest on $10,000 is $0.68, two days is $1.35, and three days is $2.03 (using compound interest formula without intermediate rounding).

The best case of 36 days of lost interest for Nov 2019 through Dec 2021 is $24.41, and worst case of 39 days of lost interest is $26.44. So the worst minus best is only $2.03 of lost interest. :oops: Three days of lost interest. Holidays not considered, but the difference between worst and best is small enough to really not worry about.

Kevin
Yes, it did occurred to me that more than one month of interest is lost for those lengthy add-ons.
Right, but consider this. On $10K, the difference in daily interest at 3.00% APY vs. 2.50% APY is $0.13, so it takes about 5 days at 3.00% to recover one day of lost interest (relative to 2.50%), about 11 days to recover two days of lost interest, and about 16 days to recover three days of lost interest. That's not much considering that we'll be earning the higher interest for one to two years.

And if you're transferring from an account earning 2.00% APY, you earn $0.27 more per day on $10K at 3.00% APY, and it take only 2, 4 or 6 days to recover from 1, 2 or 3 days of lost interest respectively.
indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:30 pm
And all the work done to figure the best day only makes a difference of a few days. :oops:
Yeah, but it has been fun. I never created a pivot table in Google Sheets before.
indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:30 pm
If only we can get PSECU to make those add-on money transfers at the end of the day, instead of early in the morning...
That would be nice.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Ricchan
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 am
Location: Firestone D Floor

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Ricchan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:31 pm

I suppose, based on how you want to interpret these things, you could see it either as ~36 days of lost interest spread over the ~36 transfers, or 1 day of lost interest on the total sum of funds invested in the CD after the initial funding, amortized over 3 years. Pick whichever one makes you feel less bad. :)
Last edited by Ricchan on Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

duricka
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:18 am

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by duricka » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:44 pm

A noob question: is my p.s.e.c.u member account number the thing I use for direct deposit when they ask me for account number?

User avatar
Ricchan
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 am
Location: Firestone D Floor

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Ricchan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:52 pm

duricka wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:44 pm
A noob question: is my p.s.e.c.u member account number the thing I use for direct deposit when they ask me for account number?
That's what I used.

User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:13 pm

Ricchan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:31 pm
I suppose, based on how you want to interpret these things, you could see it either as ~36 days of lost interest spread over the ~36 transfers, or 1 day of lost interest on the total sum of funds invested in the CD after the initial funding, amortized over 3 years. Pick whichever one makes you feel less bad. :)
If your add-on funding period is short, you can have some good choices.

I funded my add-ons over three months, to coincide with the release of my funds from the Marcus and Chase bonuses. I picked the dates 9/26, 10/26 and 11/26. Each of the date only resulted in one day loss of interest. I called in to PSECU to change the add-on date after I found that the date I originally picked wasn't optimal.
My signature has been deleted.

User avatar
Ricchan
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 am
Location: Firestone D Floor

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Ricchan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:39 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:13 pm
Ricchan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:31 pm
I suppose, based on how you want to interpret these things, you could see it either as ~36 days of lost interest spread over the ~36 transfers, or 1 day of lost interest on the total sum of funds invested in the CD after the initial funding, amortized over 3 years. Pick whichever one makes you feel less bad. :)
If your add-on funding period is short, you can have some good choices.

I funded my add-ons over three months, to coincide with the release of my funds from the Marcus and Chase bonuses. I picked the dates 9/26, 10/26 and 11/26. Each of the date only resulted in one day loss of interest. I called in to PSECU to change the add-on date after I found that the date I originally picked wasn't optimal.
That is true. If you don't plan on utilizing the recurring contribution for the life of the CD, or if you plan to contribute more heavily in the first few months and decrease your contributions as time goes on, then there are a couple dates that have 0 additional days lost to interest.

For example, 11-07, 11-14, 11-21, and 11-28 all have 7 months of 0 additional days of lost interest, starting from the first contribution date. So if you plan to make 7 or less contributions to the CD, you really can't do better than picking one of those dates.

You know, as I'm writing this, it occurred to me that the cost profile for a particular day in a month is going to be the exact same as that of days that are a multiple of 7 days before or after that day. The cost of any particular day (excluding holiday effects) depends only on the day of the week it falls on (e.g. whether the 7th falls on a Mon, Tue, Wed, etc.), and any day that is a multiple a 7 difference from that day is going to fall on the same day of the week. E.g. if the 7th falls on a Wed in a given month, the 14th is also going to fall on a Wed in that month, as is the 21st and 28th. So, really all we need is to look at the cost profile of the first 7 days of the month for the first contribution, then extrapolate those numbers out for the rest of the month. The cost profile of the 1st day is going to be the same as the 8th, 15th, 22nd, etc. The cost profile of the 2nd day is going to be the same as the 9th, 16th, 23rd, etc. And so on.

Of course, to be complete, you should also consider holidays and how the days 29, 30, and 31 behave during months with less than those number of days.

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:40 pm

Ricchan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:39 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:13 pm
Ricchan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:31 pm
I suppose, based on how you want to interpret these things, you could see it either as ~36 days of lost interest spread over the ~36 transfers, or 1 day of lost interest on the total sum of funds invested in the CD after the initial funding, amortized over 3 years. Pick whichever one makes you feel less bad. :)
If your add-on funding period is short, you can have some good choices.

I funded my add-ons over three months, to coincide with the release of my funds from the Marcus and Chase bonuses. I picked the dates 9/26, 10/26 and 11/26. Each of the date only resulted in one day loss of interest. I called in to PSECU to change the add-on date after I found that the date I originally picked wasn't optimal.
That is true. If you don't plan on utilizing the recurring contribution for the life of the CD, or if you plan to contribute more heavily in the first few months and decrease your contributions as time goes on, then there are a couple dates that have 0 additional days lost to interest.

For example, 11-07, 11-14, 11-21, and 11-28 all have 7 months of 0 additional days of lost interest, starting from the first contribution date. So if you plan to make 7 or less contributions to the CD, you really can't do better than picking one of those dates.

You know, as I'm writing this, it occurred to me that the cost profile for a particular day in a month is going to be the exact same as that of days that are a multiple of 7 days before or after that day. The cost of any particular day (excluding holiday effects) depends only on the day of the week it falls on (e.g. whether the 7th falls on a Mon, Tue, Wed, etc.), and any day that is a multiple a 7 difference from that day is going to fall on the same day of the week. E.g. if the 7th falls on a Wed in a given month, the 14th is also going to fall on a Wed in that month, as is the 21st and 28th. So, really all we need is to look at the cost profile of the first 7 days of the month for the first contribution, then extrapolate those numbers out for the rest of the month. The cost profile of the 1st day is going to be the same as the 8th, 15th, 22nd, etc. The cost profile of the 2nd day is going to be the same as the 9th, 16th, 23rd, etc. And so on.

Of course, to be complete, you should also consider holidays and how the days 29, 30, and 31 behave during months with less than those number of days.
All good observations. This motivated me to modify my spreadsheet so I can enter any start date, end date, and min and max days to evaluate, and I verified all of the above observations.

For indexfundfan starting in Sep 2019 and ending Nov 2019, best days are 5, 12, 19 and 26, with three days of lost interest.

And as Ricchan says, for Nov 2019 through May 2020, best days are 7, 14, 21, and 28, with 7 days of lost interest. Worst days for this scenario are 2, 9, 16, and 23, with 12 days lost interest. Not sure about day 30; would the Feb 2020 deposit go in on 2/29/2020 (Sat) or 3/30/2020 (Sun)? If the former, then day 30 would have 11 days of lost interest, and if the latter it would have 12 days of lost interest.

At any rate, for these relatively short periods, the difference in days of lost interest can be relatively large.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:11 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:55 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:37 am
Kevin M wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm
...On my IRA transfer, I faxed the transfer form to PSECU on Friday at about 1:15 PM PT, with instructions to FAX to Vanguard, and when I logged into Vanguard Monday morning, the money had already been withdrawn from my account. Since both Vanguard and PSECU are in Pennsylvania, I assume the check will get to PSECU this week.
Kevin,

Has the check from VG to PSECU for the IRA CD posted at PSECU yet?
No, I called this morning, and the check wasn't there yet.
MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:37 am
In my case, Fidelity withdrew the funds from my IRA on a Tuesday, mailed the check on Wednesday and it showed up in the IRA CD at PSECU the following Tuesday. Initially the IRA CD showed up online Tuesday mid-day with a zero balance and then later that day it reflected the amount of the check. They told me it would happen that way.
Thanks for that. Since VG withdrew amount on Monday, I'm hoping they sent the check on Tuesday. PSECU still has one more mail pickup today, so maybe later today, but hopefully Monday at the latest, which would be consistent with your experience.

Good to know what to expect when it gets there.

Kevin
Working as expected. I now see the PSECU 36 Month IRA Certificate with $0 balance, maturity date 10/28/2022, and dividend rate of 3.200%.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:20 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:11 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:55 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:37 am
In my case, Fidelity withdrew the funds from my IRA on a Tuesday, mailed the check on Wednesday and it showed up in the IRA CD at PSECU the following Tuesday. Initially the IRA CD showed up online Tuesday mid-day with a zero balance and then later that day it reflected the amount of the check. They told me it would happen that way.
Thanks for that. Since VG withdrew amount on Monday, I'm hoping they sent the check on Tuesday. PSECU still has one more mail pickup today, so maybe later today, but hopefully Monday at the latest, which would be consistent with your experience.

Good to know what to expect when it gets there.
Working as expected. I now see the PSECU 36 Month IRA Certificate with $0 balance, maturity date 10/28/2022, and dividend rate of 3.200%.
And now I see the IRA CD with balance of $227K.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

MikeG62
Posts: 2243
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by MikeG62 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:35 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:20 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:11 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:55 pm
MikeG62 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:37 am
In my case, Fidelity withdrew the funds from my IRA on a Tuesday, mailed the check on Wednesday and it showed up in the IRA CD at PSECU the following Tuesday. Initially the IRA CD showed up online Tuesday mid-day with a zero balance and then later that day it reflected the amount of the check. They told me it would happen that way.
Thanks for that. Since VG withdrew amount on Monday, I'm hoping they sent the check on Tuesday. PSECU still has one more mail pickup today, so maybe later today, but hopefully Monday at the latest, which would be consistent with your experience.

Good to know what to expect when it gets there.
Working as expected. I now see the PSECU 36 Month IRA Certificate with $0 balance, maturity date 10/28/2022, and dividend rate of 3.200%.
And now I see the IRA CD with balance of $227K.

Kevin
Perfect Kevin. Exactly the way it happened for me. Glad to hear it worked out as planned.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

tbradnc
Posts: 1524
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:30 am

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by tbradnc » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:10 pm

Just created my login and need to link Ally. Is your PSECU checking account number your member number followed by 0002?

User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11252
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Best CD rates thread

Post by Kevin M » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:39 pm

tbradnc wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:10 pm
Just created my login and need to link Ally. Is your PSECU checking account number your member number followed by 0002?
No. You can only get your checking account number by mail or FAX, or just wait for your checks. The checking account number has no relationship to member number.

Just use your member number. People here have posted that if you have a checking account, ACH deposits using member number go into it. We used member number for a wire to my wife's account, and it went into her checking account.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

Post Reply