Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

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Rick Ferri
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Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Rick Ferri » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:02 am

.
Why Ken Fisher Advertises So Much

The legendary investment manager tells ThinkAdvisor about his ubiquitous marketing strategy.

LINK TO ARTICLE

"Our culture says you’re supposed to [include] women [for diversity]. But in fact, the ads that work the best both among men and among women don’t have any women in them. It’s been true that it’s very hard to come up with an ad that includes women that pulls as well among either men or women as ads that are just of men."

Now, THAT'S caring. :oops:

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by RadAudit » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:41 am

Since we're talking marketing -
We know that inside our client base are six different types of mental profiles. We aim different ads at different mental profiles because people are different as to how they think and feel about their retirement savings and investing. We’ve done a lot of work over a long time to break that down into categories, and we think about them when we do our ads, appealing to a [target] group out of the six that make up our legitimate client base.
It seems he is just aiming his marketing dollars at the targets he has chosen and delivering his messages in a manner that is calculated to provide him the biggest return on those dollars. If diversity in advertising to his target groups doesn't work, why throw money at it?

And, although it works for him, I hope never to have to do business with him and his.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Rick Ferri » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:59 am

When Fisher said, "according to everything that I see and am told, yes, it works. We’re doing fine. Thank you." he was talking about his marketing skill, not investment skill. He never said or implied that his company was any good at investing.

I've heard this stated multiple times in different ways by active managers, "Given a choice between great investing and great marketing, I'll take great marketing every time."

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by SpringMan » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 am

All true about marketing trumping investing skill with Fisher Investment. I have noticed Vanguard has been upping its advertising lately too, especially their PAS service which I have no interest.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:14 am

We still have a pair of Fisher binoculars they gifted us a decade ago. They finally stopped calling a few years ago.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Wyodoc » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:18 am

I would never use Fisher Investments and agree there a MUCH better models for financial advice. I would also never knock his business model. He has 114B in AUM. The man knows how to advertise and get clients. No need to hate, enjoy this beautiful Sunday :D

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Rick Ferri » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:19 am

SpringMan wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 am
All true about marketing trumping investing skill with Fisher Investment. I have noticed Vanguard has been upping its advertising lately too, especially their PAS service which I have no interest.
We're being CRUSHED with Vanguard PAS ads. Enough already! :thumbsdown :thumbsdown

BTW, I thought this study from Vanguard of the PAS process was interesting:

Assessing the value of advice from PAS. [link formatted by admin LadyGeek]

Look at page 5 of this new study. Literally every type of investor at every risk level ended up with essentially the same 60/40 portfolio allocation.

Hate risk? We recommend 60/40
Moderate risk? We recommend 60/40
Love risk? We recommend 60/40

And of course, the same four funds for everyone.

Really? What would Jack say?
"I'm far more interested in human beings than in algorithms, and I do my best to keep Vanguard a place where judgment has at least a fighting chance to triumph over process. I wish you and your leaders well in dealing with these challenges, even as we have grown from a tiny entity to a giant institution."
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Stinky » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:23 am

Thanks for the peek behind the curtain at Fisher Investments.

Now we know that a primary focus is on marketing. Pulling in fresh meat off the streets, getting them ready for the 1% AUM fee slaughter.

I've recently heard Fisher radio commercials saying something - "How do you avoid a 50% decline in your portfolio when the next market crash comes? By not investing everything in stocks!" (Sounds like a closet Boglehead to me) :happy

I wonder who will replace Ken Fisher as the "face" of the firm when he's no longer able to be as active in the business.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by SGM » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:28 am

We have been getting mailings from FI for years and have never responded. His face is all over the internet. When he was an author working for Forbes I read his column. He seemed right as often as he was wrong with his individual stock suggestions. I find it annoying that he states in his advertisements that all annuities have nose bleed fees . All annuities are not alike. I would not trust my investments with Fisher Investments.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:30 am

How much money would Vanguard have saved by not mailing each individual in my household who has an account a PAS postcard inquiring if our money is working as hard as it should? And multiple times too? Isn’t is it enough it’s the first thing we saw each time we logged on and had to click the “X” box to get to business at hand?

Do they ever think where the dollars could be spent to best provide the bang for customers? You already offer the Lifestrategy funds which coincidentally or not also happen to hold just 4 funds - the same four suggested by PAS.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:34 am

SGM wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:28 am
I find it annoying that he states in his advertisements that all annuities have nose bleed fees . All annuities are not alike. I would not trust my investments with Fisher Investments.
It’s interesting that he’s running full page ads in the Wall Street Journal recommending you avoid annuities and for good reason of course. He wants the annuity money to come to him so he can drain you of your money.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by elainet7 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:37 am

how do you stop getting his mailings

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by beyou » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:39 am

Funny, I was just reading a PR piece that came up on google news, from Ken Fisher. Sneaky both in that I assumed it was written by a USA Today staff writer, and because he gives “advice” most people can’t implement.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/co ... 778715002/

Essentially he is advocating today’s best stock market sectors, in advice for 401k investors. Per below only 40% of 401k plans offer a brokerage option, and only 1-3% actually use it. Otherwise most people don’t have sector funds in their 401k. Do you ? Do you have or use a “brokerage window” ? How is his advice useful ? Seems like shameful PR, and shame on USA Today for publishing it. Bet he has lots of ads in USA Today ! Not sure, usually don’t read USA Today.

Some info on brokerage window for 401k plans.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/p ... counts.asp

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by HueyLD » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:40 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:14 am
We still have a pair of Fisher binoculars they gifted us a decade ago. They finally stopped calling a few years ago.
When Fisher’s salesman calls next time, just spend as much time with him as possible. And ask him to repeat everything he says, and then ask for clarification because you don’t understand what he says. After wasting half an hour of his time, he won’t call you back again. :oops:

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Carlos Danger » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:41 am

What's the problem? Are people supposed to bury their heads in the sand and ignore reality for the sake of feelings?

He's not responsible for what other human beings find convincing. That's on them. It would be inappropriate for him to run ads that he knows are less effective for the sake of some sort of social justice crusade.

On a related note, I'm a bit miffed by the repeated Vanguard advertisments I saw on every single commercial break yesterday on CBS during the SEC game. Waste of money. Cut my expense ratios more instead, thanks.
Last edited by Carlos Danger on Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by goldendad » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:47 am

I understand Ken is worth $3+ billion. I’m going to assume he knows something about running a business and marketing.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by beyou » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:47 am

Rick Ferri wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:59 am
When Fisher said, "according to everything that I see and am told, yes, it works. We’re doing fine. Thank you." he was talking about his marketing skill, not investment skill. He never said or implied that his company was any good at investing.

I've heard this stated multiple times in different ways by active managers, "Given a choice between great investing and great marketing, I'll take great marketing every time."

Rick Ferri
That is only because one can’t repeat outperformance annually, but you can repeat advertising that does not mention performance. If one could actually repeat past good performance, it would sell itself, but nobody can do it. So this is what all managers know, but don’t usually admit.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by friar1610 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:59 am

I think it's interesting how VG's current home page ad tries to capitalize on its index/low-cost tradition and then lead you to the conclusion that the natural progression in the order of investing is to "advice".
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Small Law Survivor » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:11 am

Fisher's sales people called me repeatedly for a number of years, and then just .... stopped.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by ResearchMed » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:20 am

elainet7 wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:37 am
how do you stop getting his mailings
Send them a change of address form ?

And as a courtesy to others, how about choosing a street/number that you know does not exist! :wink:

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by RadAudit » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:23 am

I recall a saying that goes something like "if a man builds a better mousetrap - even though he lives in the wood - the world will beat a path to his door - but advertising helps." (Thoreau [?], except for the final add on about advertising)

So, while Vanguard definitely built a better mousetrap, maybe they need a little more traffic to meet their goals - whatever they are now.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by goodenyou » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:37 am

I heard he hates annuities.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by JoMoney » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:05 am

I don't like his ads. I don't like the idea of an old billionaire blow-hard telling me what to do.
But sometimes I think everyone else needs an old billionaire blow-hard telling them what do do :D
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by hicabob » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:24 am

Of course none of us would pay Fisher fees but his advertising has worked very well for him so it would seem hard to disparage his marketing expertise and methods.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by delamer » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:31 am

RadAudit wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:23 am
I recall a saying that goes something like "if a man builds a better mousetrap - even though he lives in the wood - the world will beat a path to his door - but advertising helps." (Thoreau [?], except for the final add on about advertising)

So, while Vanguard definitely built a better mousetrap, maybe they need a little more traffic to meet their goals - whatever they are now.
I have no problem with companies marketing their products; it’s what they need to do to bring in new customers/revenue.

Regarding Vanguard now, however, the issue is that the customer service has deteriorated for existing customers, not just in terms of services provided but in terms of notifying customers about service changes.

Isn’t the adage in business is that it is a lot more expensive to find a new customer than to keep an old one?

I am supportive of Vanguard’s business model, but my frustration level is on the rise. My impression from the forum is that they have been overwhelmed with new customers which has caused service problems.

So maybe get things in working order for the current base before trolling for new customers?
Last edited by delamer on Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by delamer » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:33 am

hicabob wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:24 am
Of course none of us would pay Fisher fees but his advertising has worked very well for him so it would seem hard to disparage his marketing expertise and methods.
You could have said the same thing about tobacco companies at one time.

Doesn’t mean they were doing the right thing for their customers.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by JoMoney » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:39 am

delamer wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:33 am
hicabob wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:24 am
Of course none of us would pay Fisher fees but his advertising has worked very well for him so it would seem hard to disparage his marketing expertise and methods.
You could have said the same thing about tobacco companies at one time.

Doesn’t mean they were doing the right thing for their customers.
I don't think anyone said it was "the right thing for their customers"
... but it kind of begs the question of whether or not there would be any customers without the marketing
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by batrleby » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:42 am

“If you have $500,000.00 to invest”, call me instead.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by delamer » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:46 am

JoMoney wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:39 am
delamer wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:33 am
hicabob wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:24 am
Of course none of us would pay Fisher fees but his advertising has worked very well for him so it would seem hard to disparage his marketing expertise and methods.
You could have said the same thing about tobacco companies at one time.

Doesn’t mean they were doing the right thing for their customers.
I don't think anyone said it was "the right thing for their customers"
... but it kind of begs the question of whether or not there would be any customers without the marketing
My point is that I don’t have any problem disparaging the marketing techniques of a company that sells a harmful product.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by peppers » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:52 am

fwiw

In the course of running his business, Mr. Ken utilizes media companies, telecommunication providers, utility companies and so on. If some of those entities happen to be in let's say... a total market index fund then as a holder of said index fund I benefit from his expenditures.

So Mr. Ken keep paying those bills, I appreciate your business.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Misenplace » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:56 am

Several off topic posts were removed. Please keep the discussion focussed on topic (investment manager's marketing techniques) and avoid off topic, trolling comments, including:
discussions of the crimes, shortcomings or stupidity of other people, whether they be political figures, celebrities, CEOs, ....
rules#rule-4b

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Sconie » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:15 am

SpringMan wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 am
All true about marketing trumping investing skill with Fisher Investment. I have noticed Vanguard has been upping its advertising lately too, especially their PAS service which I have no interest.
Well said SpringMan. Every time "you turn around" with Vanguard it's PAS.....PAS......PAS. Quite tacky, though it does make one wonder (pondering the initial topic of this thread) exactly what their marketing objective/strategy is.
Last edited by Sconie on Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Forester » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:16 am

Ken Fisher kept his cool in late 2018 and exactly nailed one if the reasons for the market sell-off (hedge fund liquidations).

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by beyou » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:23 am

I see nothing wrong with PAS advertising. They likely lost many people to expensive advisors, because people think this is complicated. Making prospective customers aware that they can get some level of help for a competitive price seems worthwhile. Much cheaper to pay for PAS than K Fisher or E Jones. What I would prefer is less advertising popups for existing customers. I am already ok with their model, don’t need constant reminders there is another model. Once in a while would be fine, but when I login, I get either PAS ads or acct transition warning. For those who have new or transitioned brokerage accts, how often are you solicited for PAS at login ?

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Fallible » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:30 am

Rick Ferri wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:02 am
.
Why Ken Fisher Advertises So Much

The legendary investment manager tells ThinkAdvisor about his ubiquitous marketing strategy.

LINK TO ARTICLE

"Our culture says you’re supposed to [include] women [for diversity]. But in fact, the ads that work the best both among men and among women don’t have any women in them. It’s been true that it’s very hard to come up with an ad that includes women that pulls as well among either men or women as ads that are just of men."

Now, THAT'S caring. :oops:
Rick Ferri
Thanks for the post, Rick. And to show how much further "caring" he shows, here's his next answer:
If you run an ad with just men in it, women get very upset with us and presume all kinds of negative things about us. But it’s very hard for us to come up with an ad that includes women — as we’ve done with the four people in one of our “Comparison” ads — that pulls as well in terms of:  “I would want to buy from that ad.”
Also, the entire article, dependent on what "he says," is another marketing triumph for Fisher, as far as marketing goes.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by nisiprius » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:35 am

Stinky wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:23 am
...I've recently heard Fisher radio commercials saying something - "How do you avoid a 50% decline in your portfolio when the next market crash comes? By not investing everything in stocks!...
Really???

80% of his private clients did presumably suffer 50% declines during last market crash, because he did have them invest everything in stocks... according to this 2011 article, Fisher's firm to pay $376K
...to retiree who just wanted to buy his book.

Instead, investment outfit allegedly pressured 64-year-old into cashing out bond portfolio and purchasing equities....

Fisher simply made the same recommendation to Ms. Silverstein that it makes to the vast majority of its clients: 100 percent equities benchmarked to the MSCI World (MXWO) Index,” Willcutts wrote.

About 80 percent of Fisher's private clients are invested 100 percent in stocks, according to arbitration testimony from Fisher Vice Chairman Andrew Teufel described in the document.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by NMBob » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:36 am

Carlos Danger wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:41 am
What's the problem? Are people supposed to bury their heads in the sand and ignore reality for the sake of feelings?

He's not responsible for what other human beings find convincing. That's on them. It would be inappropriate for him to run ads that he knows are less effective for the sake of some sort of social justice crusade.

On a related note, I'm a bit miffed by the repeated Vanguard advertisments I saw on every single commercial break yesterday on CBS during the SEC game. Waste of money. Cut my expense ratios more instead, thanks.
KF simply points out some interesting data from their marketing focus groups. He didn't even say anything about it such as why it occurs or if it is good or bad etc....

seems like a mud slinging post with no data or information

meanwhile, what pops up on Vanguards home page....
'Changing the way the world invests. Again.
Others followed our lead with index funds and low-cost investing. The time has come for convenient, affordable financial advice.
'

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by JoMoney » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:39 am

Sconie wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:15 am
SpringMan wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 am
All true about marketing trumping investing skill with Fisher Investment. I have noticed Vanguard has been upping its advertising lately too, especially their PAS service which I have no interest.
Well said SpringMan. Every time "you turn around" with Vanguard it's PAS.....PAS......PAS. Quite tacky, though it does make one wonder (pondering the initial topic of this thread) exactly what their marketing objective/strategy is.
PAS is a low-cost alternative to other investment advisers (...such as Fisher Investments).
My basic assumption/model for why Vanguard does what Vanguard does is Vanguard's leadership is rewarded by way of the "Vanguard Partnership Plan". The plan incentivizes growing Vanguard's assets and providing investment "products"/services that are lower cost relative to the broader industry. Sometimes the products are a bit dubious as to if it's the best interest of their customers, but if the customers want it, and if Vanguard can make in-roads in that market at lower cost, they'll do it. As far as I'm concerned it explains the push to brokerage accounts, foreign bonds, ETF's, absolute return funds, private equity, etc...
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by goodenyou » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:43 am

There is still ample opportunity in this country to seize on the financial illiteracy and intimidation that exists for most average folks in the investing world. If you couple that reality with a televangelistic style, you are off to the races.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by MNGopher » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:55 am

"I would die and go to hell before I would sell an annuity". This line alone makes me like him a little, but not enough to pay him to manage my money.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by goingup » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:59 am

Fisher advertisements really miss the mark for me. As a DIY investor, the idea of having someone like Ken Fisher overseeing our wealth is terrifying.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by JoMoney » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:09 pm

MNGopher wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:55 am
"I would die and go to hell before I would sell an annuity". This line alone makes me like him a little, but not enough to pay him to manage my money.
"... I would have someone else do it by proxy ..."
https://www.investmentnews.com/article/ ... -companies
:twisted: :P :D
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nedsaid
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by nedsaid » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:12 pm

Rick Ferri wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:02 am
.
Why Ken Fisher Advertises So Much

The legendary investment manager tells ThinkAdvisor about his ubiquitous marketing strategy.

LINK TO ARTICLE

"Our culture says you’re supposed to [include] women [for diversity]. But in fact, the ads that work the best both among men and among women don’t have any women in them. It’s been true that it’s very hard to come up with an ad that includes women that pulls as well among either men or women as ads that are just of men."

Now, THAT'S caring. :oops:

Rick Ferri
Hi Rick, thanks for posting this. I have received Fisher's mailings and just put them in the waste basket, also have heard here how aggressive their marketing is. Fortunately, no phone calls. He is headquartered in the same general geographical area where I live and provides lots of jobs.

There is the old saying that if you build a better mousetrap that the world will beat a path to your door. As we know, it just isn't true. The world runs on marketing and you need someone to help draw potential customers and then convince them that you are better than the other guy. A local tech company was on the forefront of lots of things, including the personal computer and the early printers. It started out as a test and measurement company (not Hewlett Packard) and decided to branch out into color printers, it could have been at the forefront of the Personal Computer revolution. We all know that Microsoft did not have the best operating system or the best suite of Office products, it marketed the heck out of what it had and vastly improved its products to a world class status. But essentially it bought or copied others ideas, Microsoft couldn't have gotten where it is without very aggressive marketing.

There are two financial advisors, Larry Swedroe and yours truly, Rick Ferri, that unselfishly spend a lot of time here posting and answering investor questions. I think the reasons for your and Larry's participation are rather pure, the efforts you both put here are far in excess of any financial benefit received here. But still, getting your name out there, posting in an internet forum, attending Boglehead conferences and the like is part of building goodwill with the public and building the brand. Shoot, it is one of the unspoken reasons that service and civic organizations exist, it gives businesspeople a chance to get personally known in the community. I know there are a few Bogleheads that are Buckingham clients and I know that forum members have referred folks to you and Allan Roth. Pretty certain that Buckingham has picked up a few clients here. Nothing at all wrong with that. I remember when you came out of retirement and let us know that you were getting back into the Advisory business. Nothing at all wrong with that either.

One of the Bogleheads related a story of when Larry spoke at a local Bogleheads chapter. He gave a very good presentation and a very soft sell. Sort of like the unspoken message that if you ever need help with wealth management, Buckingham is an option. He might have even given out free merchandise. I will have to dig up the post, foggy memory banks and all of that.

So Buckingham has to market, your firm has to market itself, and even Vanguard advertises quite a bit even to the annoyance of longtime Vanguard clients that don't want or need their advisory service. I do taxes, and I hand business cards to clients in hopes that I will get referrals, my firm does both radio and TV ads. That is what makes the world go round. There is a whole lot of goods and services that are sold and not bought.

Hopefully there is a right way and a wrong way to market one's goods and services. There are also more honest and ethical ways to market and hopefully we don't have to resort to manipulative methods. But I have to admit that in my little job, I do the upsell for certain products offered by the company, it is just part of the job. Sort of like when you are asked at the drive through window if you would like fries with your order. Or when the attractive waitress at your favorite restaurant brings around the dessert tray. Just part of life.
Last edited by nedsaid on Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A fool and his money are good for business.

columbia
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by columbia » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:14 pm

I don’t know who he is, which is probably to my advantage.

NMBob
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by NMBob » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:33 pm

Hopefully there is a right way and a wrong way to market one's goods and services. There are also more honest and ethical ways to market and hopefully we don't have to resort to manipulative methods.

Was this presented as an issue in this thread? are people suggesting that using focus groups to help develop effective advertising is unethical? Don't most all advertising companies that run companies' campaigns use focus groups to provide analytical support when presenting proposals/bids on ad campaigns. Wouldn't not using focus group studies possibly almost be inefficient and negligent in expending one's advertising dollars?

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nedsaid
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by nedsaid » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:37 pm

NMBob wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:33 pm
Hopefully there is a right way and a wrong way to market one's goods and services. There are also more honest and ethical ways to market and hopefully we don't have to resort to manipulative methods.

Was this presented as an issue in this thread? are people suggesting that using focus groups to help develop effective advertising is unethical? Don't most all advertising companies that run companies' campaigns use focus groups to provide analytical support when presenting proposals/bids on ad campaigns. Wouldn't not using focus group studies possibly almost be inefficient and negligent in expending one's advertising dollars?
I wasn't referring specifically to focus groups. We know that political campaigns and pollsters use them with great success. What I was referring to was playing to our fears, manipulating our emotions, and using slanted data to make the case. Sort of the difference between being informative and outright propaganda. Again, a fine line here. We have to convince potential customers that we are better than the other guy.

Even when you are ethical in business, you put your best foot forward. You make yourself and your firm look as attractive as possible to potential customers. Advertising isn't the place to air dirty laundry. You also have to have a certain air of confidence when you sell. Hopefully good marketing is win/win, win for the provider of goods and services and a win for the customer. Everyone should, in theory, be better off after the transaction.
A fool and his money are good for business.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Clever_Username » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:07 pm

Is Fisher the guy who says in an ad that he'd rather die and go to (the Bad Place, by another name) instead of ever selling an annuity?
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Stinky » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:22 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:35 am
Stinky wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:23 am
...I've recently heard Fisher radio commercials saying something - "How do you avoid a 50% decline in your portfolio when the next market crash comes? By not investing everything in stocks!...
Really???

80% of his private clients did presumably suffer 50% declines during last market crash, because he did have them invest everything in stocks... according to this 2011 article, Fisher's firm to pay $376K
...to retiree who just wanted to buy his book.

Instead, investment outfit allegedly pressured 64-year-old into cashing out bond portfolio and purchasing equities....

Fisher simply made the same recommendation to Ms. Silverstein that it makes to the vast majority of its clients: 100 percent equities benchmarked to the MSCI World (MXWO) Index,” Willcutts wrote.

About 80 percent of Fisher's private clients are invested 100 percent in stocks, according to arbitration testimony from Fisher Vice Chairman Andrew Teufel described in the document.
Maybe Fisher has changed his tactics. Maybe he’s even acting like a Boglehead, recommending an asset allocation that’s appropriate for the client’s risk tolerance.

Oh wait, he can’t be a real Boglehead. Because he charges 1% to 1.5% AUM fees.
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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by Clever_Username » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:25 pm

Stinky wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:22 pm
Maybe Fisher has changed his tactics. Maybe he’s even acting like a Boglehead, recommending an asset allocation that’s appropriate for the client’s risk tolerance.

Oh wait, he can’t be a real Boglehead. Because he charges 1% to 1.5% AUM fees.
I don't know, if someone wanted to pay me 1% AUM to manage their portfolio, I could do something for that. It would look a lot like this: https://dilbert.com/strip/2012-01-20
"What was true then is true now. Have a plan. Stick to it." -- XXXX, _Layer Cake_ | | I survived my first downturn and all I got was this signature line.

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Re: Ken Fisher wants you to know that he cares...

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:51 pm

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