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[Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:19 pm
by boridi
[Moved into a new thread from: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?] --admin LadyGeek]

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... view/vasgx

Anyone know why all the LifeStrategy and Target Date funds show very large drops (>10%) today? None of the constituent funds dropped that much.

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:19 pm
by zvez
VTWNX dropped $9.37 today (29.5%) drop, guessing/hoping that's a glitch!! :)

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:27 pm
by livesoft
I'm laughing at how Vanguard cannot seem to calculate NAV properly or maybe they don't post it properly. Here's another one from today:
Image

Not only that, VBTLX didn't change NAV, but bond funds had a big day, so I suspect even VBTLX is incorrect so far today.

Of course, another possibility is that the NAVs have been wrong the last week or so and today things got corrected back to the truth. :twisted:

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:33 pm
by clip651
I rarely bother to look for daily updates on mutual fund NAVs this early in the evening. Usually there's just no NAV yet, not an incorrect one. Check back in a couole hours, or in the morning.

If that little bit of slowness bothers you, Vangaurd may not be a good fit for you. I haven't bothered to check if other brokers are a bunch quicker. Are they, livesoft?

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:34 pm
by coacher
Just called them re: the alleged drop of 40-60% in many of the balanced funds (Wellesley, Target Retirement Income, etc.) today. They said they are "working on it." Apparently several clients have called to be walked off the ledge.

Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
by AvidGardener
[Thread merged into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
by livesoft
clip651 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:33 pm
I haven't bothered to check if other brokers are a bunch quicker. Are they, livesoft?
Fidelity is quicker. I don't have any funds from other vendors.

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:36 pm
by crystalbank
Wellington dropped 32% in value ?! This has to be a glitch..
Edit: I see that all balanced funds have dropped..

Logged in to my account and my retirement funds dropped 30% too!

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:37 pm
by zvez
LOL, I think very few even hardcore stay the course bogleheads could tolerate a 29% drop in their investment in a single day. Same thing happened last year, fixed a couple hours later.

Wellington Drop

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:38 pm
by Nowizard
Wellington shows a 31% drop today. What happened?

Tim

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:39 pm
by Mr.BB
I happened to glance at my Morningstar portfolio and saw the same thing! I'll bet Vanguard is having some technical problems. I wondered if they got hacked?

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:40 pm
by wibadger
The large drop is showing up on several funds, including vtinx.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:40 pm
by White Coat Investor
It's obviously a technical issue and not real. Give it 24 hours and stop looking so closely. :)

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:42 pm
by Mr.BB
Im not too worried. If VWINX dropped 56% the rest of the market would of dropped 70%
But it does grab your attention the first time you see it!

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:42 pm
by Nowizard
The vanguard site shows that drop on my accounts, and Yahoo does as well under Finance.

Tim

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:43 pm
by SpringMan
Vanguard is not answering their phones. Poor service at flagship level. Many funds screwed up. They have some explaining to do.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:43 pm
by mighty72
Merged Wellington Drop here

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:43 pm
by Kenkat
Sooner or later, active management was going to bite them. :wink:

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:44 pm
by Emilyjane
Also large drops in Life Strategy funds and Vanguard Balanced Fund. Feels like 2008!

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:46 pm
by delamer
White Coat Investor wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:40 pm
It's obviously a technical issue and not real. Give it 24 hours and stop looking so closely. :)
I agree that this is by far the most likely explanation.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:48 pm
by yohac
Obviously a mistake, but such things don't exactly fill you with confidence.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm
by Nowizard
Technical issue, but not necessarily at Vanguard only since there are other financial sites that post the same drop. Most likely that other sites picked up the Vanguard data, however. Will make you reconsider your risk tolerance for sure. :happy

Tim

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm
by mervinj7
Emilyjane wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:44 pm
Also large drops in Life Strategy funds and Vanguard Balanced Fund. Feels like 2008!
With this level of IT problems, it feels more like Y2K.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm
by Trader Joe
AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
I am not sure. This is interesting. Hopefully this is only a system glitch. I only invest in VFIAX and there are no issues with my fund on the Vanguard website:

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... file/VFIAX

What happened to Target Date Funds

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm
by boater07
[Thread merged into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

My target income fund [VTINX} dropped 46% today. Looks like similar funds also lost big time.
I checked for Div or Splits and see nothing.
This can't be true!!!!

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:51 pm
by livesoft
I find it interesting that someone didn't check numbers before publishing and give a "Not OK, delay changing the numbers before publishing and updating the web site." Or even at least 2 people have to look. I wouldn't want Vanguard to be in control of nuclear launch codes.

It is certainly better to not update than to publish bogus numbers.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:52 pm
by MotoTrojan
Is there such thing as limit orders for a mutual fund? I wonder if this triggered anyone... I assume they could undo that on the backend but could cause some trouble.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:52 pm
by Gnirk
When I saw my TIRA drop by 39% today......

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:53 pm
by InvMoney
I have Wellington and Wellesley Income in a Fidelity IRA. Checked with a Fidelity Rep about the problem and was told that Vanguard was aware of it and would have it corrected in about an hour.

In reviewing today's returns for all Vanguard funds, it's apparent that only Vanguard balanced funds were affected, and that index balanced funds (Target Date funds, Life Strategy funds, Balanced Index, etc.) as well as managed balanced funds were affected.

Re: What happened to Target Date Funds

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:53 pm
by delamer
It isn’t true.

Look at this thread: viewtopic.php?p=4693973#p4693973

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:54 pm
by Bodhi312
clip651 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:33 pm
I rarely bother to look for daily updates on mutual fund NAVs this early in the evening. Usually there's just no NAV yet, not an incorrect one. Check back in a couole hours, or in the morning.

If that little bit of slowness bothers you, Vangaurd may not be a good fit for you. I haven't bothered to check if other brokers are a bunch quicker. Are they, livesoft?
The inability to both calculate NAV properly and to disseminate said NAV in a timely manner is rather concerning; this is the bare minimum an investment manager needs to do for clients, since investors do actually pay fees, low as they might be. The lack of basic sanity checks before posting prices is also concerning.

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:54 pm
by jebmke
zvez wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:37 pm
LOL, I think very few even hardcore stay the course bogleheads could tolerate a 29% drop in their investment in a single day. Same thing happened last year, fixed a couple hours later.
1987 was pretty close; 22%

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm
by ResearchMed
Just another reason to keep funds (investments or cash, etc.) at more than one vendor.

At some point, maybe Vanguard, maybe someone else, there could be a glitch that takes some time to straighten out.
That's not a good time to *need* to get some money for something urgent.

(If something similar happens to many/all major financial institutions, then the problem is, well, much bigger anyway...)

On TDAmeritrade, where all of our 403b Vanguard Brokerage window was transferred (clients had no choice), one of the Vanguard funds is showing a loss of -127.60 % in one column. [Yes, that's a *negative*] :shock:

RM

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm
by Raymond
Morningstar shows a -0.22% drop as of 5:40 p.m. today:

https://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/vwinx/quote

Vanguard Account Balance

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:56 pm
by bck63
[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Is anyone having a problem with their Vanguard Account Balance being much lower than it should be?

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:56 pm
by Jerry55
I also was flummoxed / befuddled when I looked at my Wellesley dropping 56.05%. and Wellington by 31.93%
As one poster noted above, I initially saw it on my Yahoo Finance...checking Vanguard, I know it HAD to be a malfunction
as the stock market was only down 1.5% or so today...

Then I thought, "What Month Is this anyway ?!? " then, knowing it's not one of the quarterly payout times, it must be a mistake.
I knew that if I came here, this conversation would already be underway and sure enough, it is.

I'll feel better when I see the correct numbers, but I'll relax for now, as I DVR and watch the closing bell....it HAD to be wrong.
:greedy :confused :moneybag

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:57 pm
by fru-gal
I see my wellesley and wellington affected. vdigx is okay.

You'd think they'd put a note on the website and a recording on the phone.

Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:58 pm
by bck63
Disregard. Some of the target date funds are having pricing issues. Will be fixed shortly per customer service.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:58 pm
by ScooterBob
This actually is a good time to check your balances at Vanguard just to see how you "feel" about the drop that is listed. Of course this is a glitch and will be fixed but it is also sort of a gut check to see if the number you see on your balances truly reflects your risk tolerance. Down 30% in one day- could really happen sometime.... could you live with that? Just a thought....

Bob

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:59 pm
by Bodhi312
Nowizard wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm
Technical issue, but not necessarily at Vanguard only since there are other financial sites that post the same drop. Most likely that other sites picked up the Vanguard data, however. Will make you reconsider your risk tolerance for sure. :happy

Tim
The prices other sites are posting for the affected funds originate at Vanguard.

Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:00 pm
by zvez
yeah but that was the whole market, we're talking about a fund that is 50% bonds. That would equate to a market drop of almost 60%!

Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:02 pm
by Trader Joe
bck63 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:56 pm
Is anyone having a problem with their Vanguard Account Balance being much lower than it should be?
No, I have no issues on my end.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:03 pm
by dalbright
Black Swan!

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:06 pm
by Hotshot035
My mom has vanguard 2020 fund and market watch and vanguards website is showing -29 loss. She is freaking out right now. Hopefully this is just an error.

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:07 pm
by H-Town
AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
Don't look...

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:11 pm
by boogiehead
fru-gal wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:57 pm
I see my wellesley and wellington affected. vdigx is okay.

You'd think they'd put a note on the website and a recording on the phone.
+1..... its like the most basic means to calm nerves and reduce the volume of calls, they really need to revamp the IT team :oops:

Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:12 pm
by BespokeBiker
at 4:10 pm Pacific -- VANG site login is currently hanging. Obviously either too much traffic on their servers, or the VANG website is undergoing on-the-fly maintenance

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:14 pm
by Mlm
I want my money and I want it NOW :?

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:16 pm
by dalbright
Fixed now FWIW. Up .04%

Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:17 pm
by louiethelilac
AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
Time to rebalance into Vanguard balanced funds before they catch the error