[Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
time_to_go
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by time_to_go » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:17 pm

boogiehead wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:11 pm
fru-gal wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:57 pm
I see my wellesley and wellington affected. vdigx is okay.

You'd think they'd put a note on the website and a recording on the phone.
+1..... its like the most basic means to calm nerves and reduce the volume of calls, they really need to revamp the IT team :oops:
It not the IT team - putting a banner takes all of 10 minutes. They need the signoff from some one to do so - clearly a lack of governance and transparency.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:18 pm

Sounds like a lot of Bogleheads have been peeking! Tut! Tut! Might get some demerits for looking.

Broken Man 1999
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jdb
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by jdb » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:19 pm

In my opinion and with all due respect think some posters need a hobby. We have well over $1.5 million in Wellesley and Wellington in our various Vanguard accounts and until this thread was not aware of any issue. And probably would never have been aware. Will check balances in mid December to see if need TLH before year end but other than that many better things to do than check daily mutual fund prices. Relax. Technical glitches happen. But then I do have hobbies, checking backyard beehives tomorrow. Good luck.
Last edited by jdb on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BespokeBiker
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Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Post by BespokeBiker » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:19 pm

update 4:18 p Pacific -- after 4 previous, unsuccessful tries, the VANG login is now working for me.
ps: and fund prices look okay -- i.e., no weird 50% loss (muted yay)

fru-gal
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by fru-gal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:20 pm

dalbright wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:16 pm
Fixed now FWIW. Up .04%
Nope. I just logged in again, wellesley and wellington still a mess.

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Mlm
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Mlm » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:21 pm

Vanguard is having a RBD :shock:

H-Town
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by H-Town » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:22 pm

Mlm wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:14 pm
I want my money and I want it NOW :?
Nah, it's gone. 8-) you may put your complaints in a suggestion box over there.

rebellovw
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by rebellovw » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:22 pm

Was this an "Office Space" 1/4 cent round off mishap?

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Mlm
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Mlm » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:23 pm

H-Town wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:22 pm
Mlm wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:14 pm
I want my money and I want it NOW :?
Nah, it's gone. 8-) you may put your complaints in a suggestion box over there.
OK, I'll just TLH

alamander
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Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Post by alamander » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:24 pm

So yes, conservative life strategy fund down 32.56%. I assumed it couldn't be true, but Vanguard said their phones are busy. So, I knew Bogleheads would be on it. Thanks to this thread, I could exhale.
- Alamander

clip651
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by clip651 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:24 pm

livesoft wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:51 pm
I find it interesting that someone didn't check numbers before publishing and give a "Not OK, delay changing the numbers before publishing and updating the web site." Or even at least 2 people have to look. I wouldn't want Vanguard to be in control of nuclear launch codes.

It is certainly better to not update than to publish bogus numbers.
I agree. At a minimum, they need a proofreader.

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by sixtyforty » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:26 pm

dalbright wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:16 pm
Fixed now FWIW. Up .04%
Where did you see it was fixed ? I login to Vanguard and it still shows down -56%.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

dalbright
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by dalbright » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:28 pm

sixtyforty wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:26 pm
dalbright wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:16 pm
Fixed now FWIW. Up .04%
Where did you see it was fixed ? I login to Vanguard and it still shows down -56%.
Marketwatch, they always update the fastest, and its also updated on the stocks tab of the iphone if you use that.

Bambooman
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Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Post by Bambooman » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:28 pm

My target-date funds were down 18% for the day, just about had a heart attack.....glad to hear it's a glitch.

stevew7
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by stevew7 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:29 pm

AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
The consolidated tape association which processes stock prices for roughly one third of the stocks listed in the United States, had a major technical issue this afternoon into and past the close.

This outage affected the dissemination of official closing prices today. So there are likely issues at not only Vanguard but every provider that needs an official close price.

https://www.ctaplan.com/alerts#110000144324

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by willthrill81 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:30 pm

stevew7 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:29 pm
AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
The consolidated tape association which processes stock prices for roughly one third of the stocks listed in the United States, had a major technical issue this afternoon into and past the close.

This outage affected the dissemination of official closing prices today. So there are likely issues at not only Vanguard but every provider that needs an official close price.

https://www.ctaplan.com/alerts#110000144324
So does that mean that all of the bashing of Vanguard's IT can stop? :mrgreen:
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by White Coat Investor » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:35 pm

yohac wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:48 pm
Obviously a mistake, but such things don't exactly fill you with confidence.
I've had it happen with many investment companies besides Vanguard.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

92irish
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by 92irish » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:35 pm

Fixed income mutual funds are almost all showing 0% change today when interests had a strong drop (thus prices should be up across the board). I sold a large position of the TIPS fund (VAIPX), and it should have increased fairly substantially today for a bond fund. Something is up.

stocknoob4111
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by stocknoob4111 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:36 pm

it's a 50% discount, *only today* 😆

fred9
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August 12, Monday evening Vanguard mutual funds showing large daily losses?

Post by fred9 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:36 pm

I just checked my Vanguard accounts and noticed both Wellington and Managed Payout show daily loss of over 10%.

Anyone else notice this on your account?

I called Vanguard but was told the wait time was 30 minutes so I came here

Thanks

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Christine_NM » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:36 pm

Yahoo has reasonable prices now. Vanguard balances still off.
16% cash 48% stock 36% bond. Retired, w/d rate 2.85%

youngpleb
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by youngpleb » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:39 pm

Lol do people seriously not check other funds to see if there was a technical glitch? Don't be such a sheep :oops:

I saw that the Argentinian market (see MERVAL index) actually did have a huge crash today (~40%ish) so I clicked on the Vanguard funds list page to see how it had impacted EM and International funds. On my scroll to the bottom the first things I saw were the Target funds saying huge crashes...didn't even blink. Looked at total international and total US...oops, what do you know, we are fine. Must be a glitch.

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by tibbitts » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:41 pm

92irish wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:35 pm
Fixed income mutual funds are almost all showing 0% change today when interests had a strong drop (thus prices should be up across the board). I sold a large position of the TIPS fund (VAIPX), and it should have increased fairly substantially today for a bond fund. Something is up.
I would not expect TIPS funds to behave similarly to other bond funds.

anonenigma
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by anonenigma » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:44 pm

Somebody missed the lesson on decimal point placement in 4th grade.

geo5000
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Balanced Index Fund (VBIAX)

Post by geo5000 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:46 pm

[Thread merge into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

VBIAX down 30.98%??? Whats going on, this can't be right.

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by pork » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:50 pm

FYI- Wall Street Journal now showing VWIAX up 0.03%.

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catalina355
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by catalina355 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:51 pm

stevew7 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:29 pm
AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
The consolidated tape association which processes stock prices for roughly one third of the stocks listed in the United States, had a major technical issue this afternoon into and past the close.

This outage affected the dissemination of official closing prices today. So there are likely issues at not only Vanguard but every provider that needs an official close price.

https://www.ctaplan.com/alerts#110000144324
If you look at the Fidelity Balanced funds they do NOT show 56% drops. So it seems like Vanguard did not recognize the tape issue and other mutual fund companies did.

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FIREchief
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by FIREchief » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:53 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm
On TDAmeritrade, where all of our 403b Vanguard Brokerage window was transferred (clients had no choice), one of the Vanguard funds is showing a loss of -127.60 % in one column. [Yes, that's a *negative*] :shock:
Double negative? In other words, a negative 127.6% loss = 127.6% gain? Probably the only thing that makes sense. After the 56% loss, the error correction shows a 127.6% gain (100 divided by 44) to get back to the starting point. The math checks out!
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:54 pm

vtinx -- target date retirement income down 45.61%. don't tell my mom. i suggested moving her iras from a low yielding cd to vtinx. i mentioned risk to her, but this was not what i had in mind :shock:
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

mindboggling
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by mindboggling » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:57 pm

It's the middle of August. The interns are in charge.
In broken mathematics, We estimate our prize, --Emily Dickinson

wassabi
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by wassabi » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:58 pm

mindboggling wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:57 pm
It's the middle of August. The interns are in charge.
Vanguard IT hasn't given much confidence lately.

Silk McCue
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Re: Balanced Index Fund (VBIAX)

Post by Silk McCue » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:59 pm

Lots of similar threads. Just a Vanguard problem. It will be fixed.

Cheers

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ResearchMed
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by ResearchMed » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:59 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:53 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm
On TDAmeritrade, where all of our 403b Vanguard Brokerage window was transferred (clients had no choice), one of the Vanguard funds is showing a loss of -127.60 % in one column. [Yes, that's a *negative*] :shock:
Double negative? In other words, a negative 127.6% loss = 127.6% gain? Probably the only thing that makes sense. After the 56% loss, the error correction shows a 127.6% gain (100 divided by 44) to get back to the starting point. The math checks out!
This wasn't the correction. It's now been corrected.
I'm just curious how one had a >100% loss in a non-leveraged fund...

This was how it "showed" on the list of all holdings.
If I clicked on the fund, then it showed the approx 56% loss. Same fund. Same moments (I could toggle back and forth).
:confused

Yes, I made a copy in case I want to show Vanguard, but there's really no point in bothering.
Or maybe TDAmeritrade, but it's not really their fault. However, I do wonder how that one display page got it so different...?

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

ginrummy
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by ginrummy » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:00 pm

Fire drill.

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches]

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:02 pm

I merged / combined several threads discuss Vanguard price "glitches".

On tonight's Nightly Business Report, the anchors stated that there were incorrect / incomplete market reports for indexes and closing prices. They actually gave a disclaimer stating "Here are the numbers we have, you might see different numbers elsewhere." :)

fred9, Welcome!
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:05 pm

called vg IT, on hold. refreshed browser and all's well now. vtinx only down 0.29% today. that's more like it.

funny the only reason I went to look at my account was to see how I'd feel looking at a large one day loss in my portfolio. unfortunately (or fortunately) my funds weren't affected, only my mom's. So I wasn't able to run that little emotional experiment on myself. Guess I'll have to wait for either the next technical glitch or the next big drop.

have a good evening all. don't forget to refresh your vanguard browser periodically to see the problem fix itself.
Last edited by arcticpineapplecorp. on Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:07 pm

Funny thing: I have a fund that dropped almost 30% on the web site, but my Quicken download has a much more reasonable price change.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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catalina355
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by catalina355 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:09 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:59 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:53 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm
On TDAmeritrade, where all of our 403b Vanguard Brokerage window was transferred (clients had no choice), one of the Vanguard funds is showing a loss of -127.60 % in one column. [Yes, that's a *negative*] :shock:
Double negative? In other words, a negative 127.6% loss = 127.6% gain? Probably the only thing that makes sense. After the 56% loss, the error correction shows a 127.6% gain (100 divided by 44) to get back to the starting point. The math checks out!
This wasn't the correction. It's now been corrected.
I'm just curious how one had a >100% loss in a non-leveraged fund...

This was how it "showed" on the list of all holdings.
If I clicked on the fund, then it showed the approx 56% loss. Same fund. Same moments (I could toggle back and forth).
:confused

Yes, I made a copy in case I want to show Vanguard, but there's really no point in bothering.
Or maybe TDAmeritrade, but it's not really their fault. However, I do wonder how that one display page got it so different...?

RM
It has NOT been corrected. I'm not sure what browser you are using.

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:09 pm

I merged AvidGardener's thread into the on-going discussion. The combined thread is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (news).
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by StormShadow » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:10 pm

VFORX and VIRSX both still showing 9.93% drop.

C'mon Vanguard!

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:12 pm

InvMoney wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:53 pm
I have Wellington and Wellesley Income in a Fidelity IRA. Checked with a Fidelity Rep about the problem and was told that Vanguard was aware of it and would have it corrected in about an hour.

In reviewing today's returns for all Vanguard funds, it's apparent that only Vanguard balanced funds were affected, and that index balanced funds (Target Date funds, Life Strategy funds, Balanced Index, etc.) as well as managed balanced funds were affected.
A tad ironic.
“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.“ — Warren Buffett

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:13 pm

I merged boater07's thread into the on-going discussion. The combined thread is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (news).
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by catalina355 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:13 pm

Ferdinand2014 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:12 pm
InvMoney wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:53 pm
I have Wellington and Wellesley Income in a Fidelity IRA. Checked with a Fidelity Rep about the problem and was told that Vanguard was aware of it and would have it corrected in about an hour.

In reviewing today's returns for all Vanguard funds, it's apparent that only Vanguard balanced funds were affected, and that index balanced funds (Target Date funds, Life Strategy funds, Balanced Index, etc.) as well as managed balanced funds were affected.
A tad ironic.
Not so. Bond funds are also affected.

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by zvez » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:14 pm

no problem with peaking as long as you don't react and make changes.
Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:18 pm
Sounds like a lot of Bogleheads have been peeking! Tut! Tut! Might get some demerits for looking.

Broken Man 1999

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by Gnirk » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Oh, they still have some issues. Now my and my DH’s small brokerage accounts are showing a a total value of $26,000,000.00 ! Oh, if that were only true.....

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:15 pm

I merged geo5000's thread into the on-going discussion. The combined thread is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (news).

Many thanks to the members who've reported the posts. One of the reasons is "Duplicate thread".
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ResearchMed
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by ResearchMed » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:17 pm

catalina355 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:09 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:59 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:53 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm
On TDAmeritrade, where all of our 403b Vanguard Brokerage window was transferred (clients had no choice), one of the Vanguard funds is showing a loss of -127.60 % in one column. [Yes, that's a *negative*] :shock:
Double negative? In other words, a negative 127.6% loss = 127.6% gain? Probably the only thing that makes sense. After the 56% loss, the error correction shows a 127.6% gain (100 divided by 44) to get back to the starting point. The math checks out!
This wasn't the correction. It's now been corrected.
I'm just curious how one had a >100% loss in a non-leveraged fund...

This was how it "showed" on the list of all holdings.
If I clicked on the fund, then it showed the approx 56% loss. Same fund. Same moments (I could toggle back and forth).
:confused

Yes, I made a copy in case I want to show Vanguard, but there's really no point in bothering.
Or maybe TDAmeritrade, but it's not really their fault. However, I do wonder how that one display page got it so different...?

RM
It has NOT been corrected. I'm not sure what browser you are using.
Well, it certainly *was* corrected on my display of TDA's list of Vanguard funds held within our 403b, just as stated by others.

However... it's wrong again. We slice and dice, so have lots of funds, and just now, all but two of the Vanguard funds are showing ZERO change, as in "0.00%".
Only Vanguard funds.

Oh, using Chrome...
But we have a special link at TDAmeritrade for the new (per approx January) Vanguard Brokerage Window. Maybe that's why it's different for you, if you are seeing something different on TDA?

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

umfan11244
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by umfan11244 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:18 pm

Gnirk wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:15 pm
Oh, they still have some issues. Now my and my DH’s small brokerage accounts are showing a a total value of $26,000,000.00 ! Oh, if that were only true.....
You need to withdraw now!!!! Stop posting and start withdrawing :sharebeer

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by catalina355 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:19 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:17 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:09 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:59 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:53 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm
On TDAmeritrade, where all of our 403b Vanguard Brokerage window was transferred (clients had no choice), one of the Vanguard funds is showing a loss of -127.60 % in one column. [Yes, that's a *negative*] :shock:
Double negative? In other words, a negative 127.6% loss = 127.6% gain? Probably the only thing that makes sense. After the 56% loss, the error correction shows a 127.6% gain (100 divided by 44) to get back to the starting point. The math checks out!
This wasn't the correction. It's now been corrected.
I'm just curious how one had a >100% loss in a non-leveraged fund...

This was how it "showed" on the list of all holdings.
If I clicked on the fund, then it showed the approx 56% loss. Same fund. Same moments (I could toggle back and forth).
:confused

Yes, I made a copy in case I want to show Vanguard, but there's really no point in bothering.
Or maybe TDAmeritrade, but it's not really their fault. However, I do wonder how that one display page got it so different...?

RM
It has NOT been corrected. I'm not sure what browser you are using.
Well, it certainly *was* corrected on my display of TDA's list of Vanguard funds held within our 403b, just as stated by others.

However... it's wrong again. We slice and dice, so have lots of funds, and just now, all but two of the Vanguard funds are showing ZERO change, as in "0.00%".
Only Vanguard funds.

Oh, using Chrome...
But we have a special link at TDAmeritrade for the new (per approx January) Vanguard Brokerage Window. Maybe that's why it's different for you, if you are seeing something different on TDA?

RM
I'm looking at Vanguard. Serious errors in bond, balanced and other funds.

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ResearchMed
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by ResearchMed » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:20 pm

Gnirk wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:15 pm
Oh, they still have some issues. Now my and my DH’s small brokerage accounts are showing a a total value of $26,000,000.00 ! Oh, if that were only true.....
So *that's* where the money is from all the rest of that.
(Hey, how'd you do that programming!? :D )

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

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