Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

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Jesteroftheswamp
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Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Jesteroftheswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:14 am

I earn 2.0% APY with my Cap One Money Market Accoint. Last year, I believe inflation was around 2.5%. This may not be exact, however my question remains the same. If I save money in an account that returns less than the rate of inflation, am I actually LOSING MONEY? Or is my real rate of return just lower?

aristotelian
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by aristotelian » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:18 am

The current inflation rate is 1.4% so you're good.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am

Until recently, Redneck Bank was at 2.5%. Now at 2.4%. If you have a substantial amount in that account, do the math and consider moving. Redneck's currently at 2.4%.
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mhalley
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by mhalley » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:21 am

You can lose money if inflation plus taxes exceeds the return. Is that bad? Not if the purpose of the mm is for an emergency fund, or for short term investing needs (house or car etc). You wouldn’t want all of your non stock money to lose out to inflation, but some of it for emergency fund, and as part of your overall fixed income is fine.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... lation-cpi
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/s343.pdf
Last edited by mhalley on Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

MI_bogle
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by MI_bogle » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:21 am

Your personal rate of inflation likely differs from "the" number calculated for inflation, since you are buying a different basket of goods than the govt is using to estimate inflation.

But yes, if you have money earning less than the rate of inflation, you are essentially losing money

It's a different question entirely of if that is an acceptable thing or not

CoastalWinds
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by CoastalWinds » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:27 am

There are risks to all investment classes. Loss of purchasing power is one of the risks of cash and cash-like holdings.

lukestuckenhymer
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by lukestuckenhymer » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:31 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
Until recently, Redneck Bank was at 2.5%. Now at 2.4%. If you have a substantial amount in that account, do the math and consider moving. Redneck's currently at 2.4%.
Redneck bank only pays 2.4% up to $50,000, then they pay 0.5% for every dollar over that amount. So if you have a "substantial amount," I would consider moving to another bank or fund that pays a consistent APY.

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Jesteroftheswamp
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Jesteroftheswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:38 pm

MI_bogle wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:21 am
Your personal rate of inflation likely differs from "the" number calculated for inflation, since you are buying a different basket of goods than the govt is using to estimate inflation.

But yes, if you have money earning less than the rate of inflation, you are essentially losing money

It's a different question entirely of if that is an acceptable thing or not
Does the Govt use the CPI to estimate inflation rate? Also, can you pls elaborate on the last sentence of your post pls?

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Jesteroftheswamp
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Jesteroftheswamp » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:39 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
Until recently, Redneck Bank was at 2.5%. Now at 2.4%. If you have a substantial amount in that account, do the math and consider moving. Redneck's currently at 2.4%.
Is this a joke? I’ve never heard of Redneck Bank.

BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:42 pm

BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

RAchip
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by RAchip » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:55 pm

The inflation number doesn't necessarily apply to everyone. The price of gas has gone down, the price of tv’s has gone down (and they are better now); amazon and walmart have driven down prices of lots of staples.

Also, inflation doesn't just apply to new goods. It also applies to stuff you own. If you own a home, inflation can drive its value up etc. So on a net basis, inflation might make you more wealthy.

7eight9
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by 7eight9 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:12 pm

As others have noted you may want to consider moving your money market to get a better rate. Sometimes you can find bank bonuses which can enhance the interest rate.
One good source of information is Doctor of Credit.
Link to Doctor of Credit Best Bank Account Bonuses For August, 2019 --- https://www.doctorofcredit.com/best-ban ... t-bonuses/
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:28 pm

Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:38 pm
MI_bogle wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:21 am
Your personal rate of inflation likely differs from "the" number calculated for inflation, since you are buying a different basket of goods than the govt is using to estimate inflation.

But yes, if you have money earning less than the rate of inflation, you are essentially losing money

It's a different question entirely of if that is an acceptable thing or not
Does the Govt use the CPI to estimate inflation rate? Also, can you pls elaborate on the last sentence of your post pls?
I'm not MI_bogle, but here's the present basket of goods and services the Bureau of Labor Statistics uses to calculate CPI, in both its -U and -W variants. The price data comes from locales across the US. Not only won't many individuals buy precisely the same things in precisely the same proportions, none will will live everywhere simultaneously.

CPI is a measure. The BLS publishes, on its website, its methodology and monthly data. If somebody wants to disagree with the numbers at least they have full information with which to do so.

Does that help?

PJW

MI_bogle
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by MI_bogle » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:38 am

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:28 pm
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:38 pm
MI_bogle wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:21 am
Your personal rate of inflation likely differs from "the" number calculated for inflation, since you are buying a different basket of goods than the govt is using to estimate inflation.

But yes, if you have money earning less than the rate of inflation, you are essentially losing money

It's a different question entirely of if that is an acceptable thing or not
Does the Govt use the CPI to estimate inflation rate? Also, can you pls elaborate on the last sentence of your post pls?
I'm not MI_bogle, but here's the present basket of goods and services the Bureau of Labor Statistics uses to calculate CPI, in both its -U and -W variants. The price data comes from locales across the US. Not only won't many individuals buy precisely the same things in precisely the same proportions, none will will live everywhere simultaneously.

CPI is a measure. The BLS publishes, on its website, its methodology and monthly data. If somebody wants to disagree with the numbers at least they have full information with which to do so.

Does that help?

PJW
Yes, what PJW said.

And the last sentence of my post is implying that maybe it's ok in some situations to be losing money to inflation. A good example would be if you wanted to keep a small amount of physical cash in your house for emergencies, or keep a few thousand in a local checking account for regular bill paying. The total cost of money lost to inflation in such scenarios is fairly small, and the benefits to you (ease of access primarily) are relatively important

dbr
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by dbr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:17 pm

Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:14 am
I earn 2.0% APY with my Cap One Money Market Accoint. Last year, I believe inflation was around 2.5%. This may not be exact, however my question remains the same. If I save money in an account that returns less than the rate of inflation, am I actually LOSING MONEY? Or is my real rate of return just lower?
Your nominal rate of return is positive and you are making money in nominal terms. Your real rate of return is negative as long as inflation is greater than 2%, so you are losing money in real terms.

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Jesteroftheswamp
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Jesteroftheswamp » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:52 pm

dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:17 pm
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:14 am
I earn 2.0% APY with my Cap One Money Market Accoint. Last year, I believe inflation was around 2.5%. This may not be exact, however my question remains the same. If I save money in an account that returns less than the rate of inflation, am I actually LOSING MONEY? Or is my real rate of return just lower?
Your nominal rate of return is positive and you are making money in nominal terms. Your real rate of return is negative as long as inflation is greater than 2%, so you are losing money in real terms.
Well that’s not cool brother, what should I do?!?

Scooter57
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Scooter57 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:59 pm

You should remember that you could lose a whole lot more in stocks or bond funds and be glad you have some money you can depend on keeping.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:09 pm

After tax it’s pretty rare to beat inflation risk-free. Bonds will do it more effectively on the long run but with volatility.

dbr
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by dbr » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:44 am

Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:52 pm
dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:17 pm
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:14 am
I earn 2.0% APY with my Cap One Money Market Accoint. Last year, I believe inflation was around 2.5%. This may not be exact, however my question remains the same. If I save money in an account that returns less than the rate of inflation, am I actually LOSING MONEY? Or is my real rate of return just lower?
Your nominal rate of return is positive and you are making money in nominal terms. Your real rate of return is negative as long as inflation is greater than 2%, so you are losing money in real terms.
Well that’s not cool brother, what should I do?!?
If the $10,000/year limit works for you I bonds have positive real return whatever happens to inflation. TIPS of various durations do also but there is interest rate and reinvestment risk. TIPS real rates have been negative in recent years. You can take more risk and invest for higher returns at risk of not getting them. Another solution is to not save at all and just buy things. One way to actually take advantage of inflation is to borrow money and pay it back in cheaper dollars. These last two assume you will be able to earn money at a wage increasing with inflation. You can be thankful that even though interest rates are historically low inflation is also historically low. As another poster points out you can be happy that you can save money and pretty much keep even with inflation as there are economies in the world where you can't do that.

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Stinky
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Stinky » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:58 am

Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:52 pm
dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:17 pm
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:14 am
I earn 2.0% APY with my Cap One Money Market Accoint. Last year, I believe inflation was around 2.5%. This may not be exact, however my question remains the same. If I save money in an account that returns less than the rate of inflation, am I actually LOSING MONEY? Or is my real rate of return just lower?
Your nominal rate of return is positive and you are making money in nominal terms. Your real rate of return is negative as long as inflation is greater than 2%, so you are losing money in real terms.
Well that’s not cool brother, what should I do?!?
You shouldn't be "investing" in a money market account. Rather, you should be holding money there that needs to be accessible on a liquid, relatively short-term basis - things like an emergency fund. The MM account probably earns more than a checking account (which is for really short-term needs and liquidity), but not much more.

Your "investments" should be in things that have a greater expected long-term rate of return than a money market account. Things like stocks, bonds, etc. That's where your investment dollars should go - not in a money market account.
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PhilosophyAndrew
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:08 am

OP, what do you mean by “killing” your account? What are your expectations for your money market account, and what are your objectives in holding some of your assets there?

These accounts aren’t designed for capital appreciation, and I don’t understand why you are “being killed” if your money market account does not provide a positive after-tax return.

Andy.

sabtastic
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by sabtastic » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:46 am

It is relative. If you are talking about real estate or equities, inflation is already here. That horse left the barn years ago.

Fear of inflation is not a productive way to decide on asset allocation, and could lead to panic. You need to decide on an investment plan and stick to it.

H-Town
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by H-Town » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:05 am

Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:14 am
I earn 2.0% APY with my Cap One Money Market Accoint. Last year, I believe inflation was around 2.5%. This may not be exact, however my question remains the same. If I save money in an account that returns less than the rate of inflation, am I actually LOSING MONEY? Or is my real rate of return just lower?
What if I told you that you don't get to keep 2% APY? You gotta pay the tax man first.

Keep track every details of your spending and you'll have the data year by year, month by month, to gauge your spending power. Different baskets have different increase in price.

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willthrill81
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:11 am

Stinky wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:58 am
You shouldn't be "investing" in a money market account.
Bingo. :thumbsup
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

Topic Author
Jesteroftheswamp
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Jesteroftheswamp » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:23 pm

PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:08 am
OP, what do you mean by “killing” your account? What are your expectations for your money market account, and what are your objectives in holding some of your assets there?

These accounts aren’t designed for capital appreciation, and I don’t understand why you are “being killed” if your money market account does not provide a positive after-tax return.

Andy.

I have $64K in the MMA. $15-30K of that is my emergency fund. No issues there. The rest is down payment money. I had planned on buying a house or condo two years ago and so wanted to keep that money there. I would still like to purchase a home I am just not sure when. I cannot imagine it being another five years.

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Jesteroftheswamp
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Jesteroftheswamp » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:25 pm

Stinky wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:58 am
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:52 pm
dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:17 pm
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:14 am
I earn 2.0% APY with my Cap One Money Market Accoint. Last year, I believe inflation was around 2.5%. This may not be exact, however my question remains the same. If I save money in an account that returns less than the rate of inflation, am I actually LOSING MONEY? Or is my real rate of return just lower?
Your nominal rate of return is positive and you are making money in nominal terms. Your real rate of return is negative as long as inflation is greater than 2%, so you are losing money in real terms.
Well that’s not cool brother, what should I do?!?
You shouldn't be "investing" in a money market account. Rather, you should be holding money there that needs to be accessible on a liquid, relatively short-term basis - things like an emergency fund. The MM account probably earns more than a checking account (which is for really short-term needs and liquidity), but not much more.

Your "investments" should be in things that have a greater expected long-term rate of return than a money market account. Things like stocks, bonds, etc. That's where your investment dollars should go - not in a money market account.
I never said I was investing in a MMA, and I understand basic investing/saving principles but thanks.

columbia
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by columbia » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:39 pm

What’s “killing it” - if that’s even true - is the taxes you are or will eventually pay on it. Your MM should vaguely keep pace with inflation.

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willthrill81
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:50 pm

Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:25 pm
Stinky wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:58 am
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:52 pm
dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:17 pm
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:14 am
I earn 2.0% APY with my Cap One Money Market Accoint. Last year, I believe inflation was around 2.5%. This may not be exact, however my question remains the same. If I save money in an account that returns less than the rate of inflation, am I actually LOSING MONEY? Or is my real rate of return just lower?
Your nominal rate of return is positive and you are making money in nominal terms. Your real rate of return is negative as long as inflation is greater than 2%, so you are losing money in real terms.
Well that’s not cool brother, what should I do?!?
You shouldn't be "investing" in a money market account. Rather, you should be holding money there that needs to be accessible on a liquid, relatively short-term basis - things like an emergency fund. The MM account probably earns more than a checking account (which is for really short-term needs and liquidity), but not much more.

Your "investments" should be in things that have a greater expected long-term rate of return than a money market account. Things like stocks, bonds, etc. That's where your investment dollars should go - not in a money market account.
I never said I was investing in a MMA, and I understand basic investing/saving principles but thanks.
'Cash' (e.g. 1- or 3-month Treasury bills, likely to have similar yields to a high-yield savings account these days) has historically been a fairly good short-term inflation hedge because it has rarely trailed inflation by more than about 1%, even throughout almost all of the 1970s and early 1980s. These days, short-term TIPS (i.e. 5 year) are almost certainly a better inflation hedge, although they are slightly less liquid and obviously have greater interest rate risk due to their higher duration.

But the point remains that you shouldn't be too concerned about inflation when it comes to 'stable' assets like a money market account because that shouldn't be the purpose of such accounts.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

Topic Author
Jesteroftheswamp
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by Jesteroftheswamp » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:57 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:50 pm
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:25 pm
Stinky wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:58 am
Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:52 pm
dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:17 pm


Your nominal rate of return is positive and you are making money in nominal terms. Your real rate of return is negative as long as inflation is greater than 2%, so you are losing money in real terms.
Well that’s not cool brother, what should I do?!?
You shouldn't be "investing" in a money market account. Rather, you should be holding money there that needs to be accessible on a liquid, relatively short-term basis - things like an emergency fund. The MM account probably earns more than a checking account (which is for really short-term needs and liquidity), but not much more.

Your "investments" should be in things that have a greater expected long-term rate of return than a money market account. Things like stocks, bonds, etc. That's where your investment dollars should go - not in a money market account.
I never said I was investing in a MMA, and I understand basic investing/saving principles but thanks.


But the point remains that you shouldn't be too concerned about inflation when it comes to 'stable' assets like a money market account because that shouldn't be the purpose of such accounts.

That’s a good point, I think it just makes me worry since I have what to me is a lot of money in the MMA - $64k. As I stated above, $20k of that is for emergencies, and the rest is intended to be used as a down payment st some point within the next 3-5 years.

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willthrill81
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:13 pm

Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:57 pm
That’s a good point, I think it just makes me worry since I have what to me is a lot of money in the MMA - $64k. As I stated above, $20k of that is for emergencies, and the rest is intended to be used as a down payment st some point within the next 3-5 years.
There are other options. You could buy 5 year TIPS, which have a real yield of .11% and are protected from unexpected inflation.

Invesco's Bulletshares are another interesting option. Unlike traditional bond funds, which are perpetually buying and selling bonds in order to maintain a mostly fixed maturity in the future, a Bulletshare bond fund matures at the end of specific year, and the fund's proceeds are distributed to the investors. They may be an excellent option if you know that you will need the funds at a specific time frame. And if you needed to sell the fund early, you can do so since these are ETFs.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

dbr
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Re: Is Inflation killing my Money Market Account?

Post by dbr » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:16 pm

Jesteroftheswamp wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:57 pm



That’s a good point, I think it just makes me worry since I have what to me is a lot of money in the MMA - $64k. As I stated above, $20k of that is for emergencies, and the rest is intended to be used as a down payment st some point within the next 3-5 years.
It isn't killing you that this money is not keeping pace with inflation, but it should not be of no concern either. The present rate of inflation is low and interest rates are low so the difference between them, your gain or loss in real terms, is small either way. Over long times the difference can mount up. If it is an emergency fund or saving for a down payment than as years go buy if the the fund falls behind in real dollars the action to be taken is to add some funds to keep up. In the particular case of money saved for a down payment you have to pay attention to real estate prices and add money if needed to be prepared. You could also find yourself with an excess.

As mentioned, TIPS of an appropriate duration or I bonds do not have inflation losses.

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