Are You Rich?

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RJC
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Are You Rich?

Post by RJC » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:51 am

It says we are doing OK but we definitely do not feel that way. Is this a good marker of relative wealth?

Are You Rich? This Income-Rank Quiz Might Change How You See Yourself

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... -rich.html
Last edited by RJC on Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

livesoft
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by livesoft » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:54 am

It is income only and we all know that most people don't know how to count income (taxable, AGI, everything, tax-exempt interest, under-the-table, non-monetary compensation like health care, housing, food stamps), so I don't think it is a good marker of relative wealth.
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bligh
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by bligh » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:57 am

I guess it depends on how you define rich.

In my humble opinion, high Income often gets confused with being Rich.

High Income is just High Income.

Once you have converted enough of that income to wealth, such that money is no longer a significant factor in what you choose to do with your time ... then you are rich.

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snackdog
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by snackdog » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:58 am

If you *rely* on a paycheck, ss, or annuity distributions, you are probably not rich.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:59 am

It's broken. I filled in all the questions but there's no "next" button or any way to get answers. Maybe they require me to subscribe.
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ohai
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by ohai » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:02 pm

This thing just ranks your income by area. It's crazy to not include net worth in this calculation.

sjt
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by sjt » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:03 pm

Absolutely - incredibly rich - I've never had to worry about having a roof over my head or when my next meal will be. I've never had to worry about keeping warm. I own a car outright! I'm living better than 99% of people in history.

If that's not rich, what is?
"The one who covets is the poorer man, | For he would have that which he never can; | But he who doesn't have and doesn't crave | Is rich, though you may hold him but a knave." - Wife of Bath tale

Rus In Urbe
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by Rus In Urbe » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:03 pm

This was only an interesting quiz when it came to showing my income relative to various communities...oh, I do love living in LOCOL area. One is almost instantly rich! :D
I'd like to live as a poor man with lots of money. ~Pablo Picasso

GCD
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by GCD » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:04 pm

No. Way too many variables they haven't included. They need to define their terms too.

lukestuckenhymer
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by lukestuckenhymer » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:07 pm

Yes, but don't tell anybody.

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Meg77
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by Meg77 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:10 pm

I find these sorts of things good for perspective, but I always question the data. Few people live simply off wages or retirement investments. Lower income folks get all kinds of welfare and subsidies and tax credits that wouldn't be counted as income. Business owners can largely control their "income" and also run many of their expenses through their businesses, so they can live quite large on lower monthly personal cash flow. Wealthy people have all kinds of trusts and business interests that redirect or reinvest their income so that it isn't ever technically received by them personally. I work with many of the wealthiest families in my metro, and their "income" is often negative or wildly misleading for all sorts of reasons. Still, they live quite wonderful lives while being effectively bankrupt on paper. And still many other "regular" people have various cash flow that isn't taxed or doesn't occur to them as "income" - dividends reinvested on a brokerage account being a simple example.

From the footnote:
The income data is derived from the American Community Survey, combining responses from the 2017 five-year microdata sample, and adjusted for inflation into 2019 dollars. It includes money earned at work and from owned businesses, as well as income from retirement plans and investments, though not capital gains from the sale of assets and not long-term holdings that provide the bedrock of wealth for the richest American families.
This sounds better than simply using tax return data (which is wildly misleading), but I have no idea how the survey collected the data. If it's based simply on people's recollection or response it is probably off base.
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LiterallyIronic
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:16 pm

The question about "individual" versus "household" income confuses me. My income is the only income in the household, so which one should I choose?

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:19 pm

LiterallyIronic wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:16 pm
The question about "individual" versus "household" income confuses me. My income is the only income in the household, so which one should I choose?
Yeah. My wife is rich. I’m a pauper.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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unclescrooge
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by unclescrooge » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:20 pm

bligh wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:57 am
I guess it depends on how you define rich.

In my humble opinion, high Income often gets confused with being Rich.

High Income is just High Income.

Once you have converted enough of that income to wealth, such that money is no longer a significant factor in what you choose to do with your time ... then you are rich.
+1

In my opinion, a person with $100k in passive income is richer than a w2 person with $500k in annual income.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:59 am
It's broken. I filled in all the questions but there's no "next" button or any way to get answers. Maybe they require me to subscribe.
Same thing.

Annoying.

The "default" isn't at all relevant: wrong metro area, wrong income. Big deal.

RM
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Greenman72
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by Greenman72 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:36 pm

sjt wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:03 pm
Absolutely - incredibly rich - I've never had to worry about having a roof over my head or when my next meal will be. I've never had to worry about keeping warm. I own a car outright! I'm living better than 99% of people in history.

If that's not rich, what is?
+100000

I have a job that I love.
I have a lot of friends, and a couple of really close friends.
I have a good marriage, and two good kids with whom I have a good relationship.
I also have a good relationship with my mom, my siblings, and my in-laws.
I have a good church that supports me in good times and in bad.
I'm able to give back--back to the accounting/personal finance community, back to my local community, and back to God.
I've owned my car for 15 years, and it's only been out of commission twice. After 220k miles, it's still safe and reliable. (and paid for)
I am in good health. I have no major health problems. Neither does my wife or kids.
I have a good reputation in the community for my tax & financial planning acumen. I have the respect of the local CPA community.
I have good work/life balance. I don't spend 60+ hours a week at work (normally).

I would say that I'm very, very rich indeed.

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iceport
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by iceport » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:36 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:59 am
It's broken. I filled in all the questions but there's no "next" button or any way to get answers. Maybe they require me to subscribe.
Same thing.

Annoying.

The "default" isn't at all relevant: wrong metro area, wrong income. Big deal.

RM
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firebirdparts
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by firebirdparts » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:41 pm

I was surprised at the simplicity of all that, but this caught my eye:
More than a third of respondents in the 90th percentile described their income as “average” compared to Americans in general
Maybe they just lied. It's pretty impolite to say "yeah, I'm rich". Present company excepted, of course. I hope everybody posted here today feels rich. Times sure are good.
Last edited by firebirdparts on Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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miamivice
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by miamivice » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:42 pm

I don't know.

We shop at Wal-Mart extensively. I nag my wife about cutting costs on a weekly basis. I have to closely monitor our bank accounts to make sure that outflow doesn't exceed inflow.

Yet, we have a net worth around $2.1 million at age 40.

You tell me...

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firebirdparts
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by firebirdparts » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:43 pm

I drove a 40 year old car to work today.
A fool and your money are soon partners

Texanbybirth
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by Texanbybirth » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:43 pm

sjt wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:03 pm
Absolutely - incredibly rich - I've never had to worry about having a roof over my head or when my next meal will be. I've never had to worry about keeping warm. I own a car outright! I'm living better than 99% of people in history.

If that's not rich, what is?
+1

And your signature line is a good reminder, too.
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, | Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. | None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the master: | His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:46 pm

miamivice wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:42 pm
I don't know.
We shop at Wal-Mart extensively. I nag my wife about cutting costs on a weekly basis. I have to closely monitor our bank accounts to make sure that outflow doesn't exceed inflow.
Yet, we have a net worth around $2.1 million at age 40.
You tell me...
I would say you’re rich, but if you don’t stop nagging your wife, a change in marital status could make you poor. :D
Only half kidding.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

finfire
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by finfire » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:48 pm

Yes. I have my health, my family and a roof over my head.

fposte
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by fposte » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:53 pm

sjt wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:03 pm
Absolutely - incredibly rich - I've never had to worry about having a roof over my head or when my next meal will be. I've never had to worry about keeping warm. I own a car outright! I'm living better than 99% of people in history.

If that's not rich, what is?
Yup. We do a lot of comparing up around here. This is one where comparing down can be really illuminating.

Momus
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by Momus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:56 pm

No. Everyone and their moms who own a house in metro CA are millionaires.

milktoast
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by milktoast » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:59 pm

I was explaining the difference between rich and wealthy to my teenage daughter the other day.

We are rich. Anything we need, we can have. Most of what we want, we can have. But only as long as I stay healthy and employed.

Once being healthy and employed is no longer required to maintain your standard of living, then you are wealthy.

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Bluce
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by Bluce » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:01 pm

Using income as a measure of wealth is irrelevant, as already mentioned above. So is net worth by itself.

The best way to measure if one is "rich" is to compare one's net worth against the average of the past 5-10 years' income.

I forgot what the number might be, but around 20-25 times as I recall.

If you make $250k per year, but your net worth is only $2M, you are not rich, or not wealthy.

But if you make $40k per year, and have a net worth of $1M, you are "rich."

DesertDiva
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by DesertDiva » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:03 pm

ohai wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:02 pm
This thing just ranks your income by area. It's crazy to not include net worth in this calculation.
+1 Right. It's not just what you make, it's also what you keep.

Starfish
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by Starfish » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:11 pm

Money are useless and don't make you rich. The only fortune in ones life is time and health. I have to work and sell my only fortune for money, so I am not rich at all. Millions and hundreds of thousands of income are irrelevant.

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marti038
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by marti038 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:16 pm

sjt wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:03 pm
Absolutely - incredibly rich - I've never had to worry about having a roof over my head or when my next meal will be. I've never had to worry about keeping warm. I own a car outright! I'm living better than 99% of people in history.

If that's not rich, what is?
100% agree with this line of thinking. We're all typing our responses on machines that we spent hundreds of dollars for on a forum that can basically be defined as a place for people to talk about what to do with all their money.

We're all filthy rich. I wonder more about what we'll do about it.

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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:18 pm

Topic locked for moderator review. -- mod oldcomputerguy
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Re: Are You Rich?

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:25 pm

Upon further review, this thread will remain locked (rich people). See: Non-actionable (Trolling) Topics
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