Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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nedsaid
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by nedsaid »

Jack Bogle was a great interview. He spoke his mind and said surprising things. Too many people today come armed with talking points, you hear the party line but not what interviewee really thought. So a lot of interview shows today is just the recitation of what you have heard before. Dull, dull, dull. Jack was anything but dull.

Also reminded of when he and Cliff Asness got together. Don't remember if it was a TV show or a panel discussion, whatever it was they co-hosted it. Cliff is the ultimate factors guy and he and Bogle got along famously well. Also reminds me that Mr. Bogle's son runs Quantitative Funds and is pretty good at it. So I am sure Bogle was not unfamiliar with the techniques Asness uses.

We should be reminded that Taylor and Jack knew each other fairly well and considered each other as friends. If I remember the story correctly, Taylor invited Jack to his condo in Miami along with a few other Bogle fans and the Bogleheads were born. So Taylor should know what Jack really believed in.

I never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Bogle, tight finances the last few years have clipped my travel wings and was unable to attend Boglehead conferences. I would have loved to have seen him speak in person and also meet him. But after having watched a bunch of his interviews and speeches, I get a pretty good sense for the man that he was and is. I found that the more I saw of him, the more I liked him. Mostly I liked that he was genuine and plainspoken. But not having actually known him, I can only go by what I have seen and read.

So whatever Taylor said about what Mr. Bogle believed should carry a lot of weight. I am not the one to be more Bogle than thou.
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Portfolio7
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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I am open to the idea, but literally am not buying it: while low relative valuations do suggest a strong comeback at some point, who knows when?

SCG is still beating SCV virtually every up day (and losing many down days... but we all know there are more up days over time.) It's a point of fascination for me, not because I want to change my investments, but because SCV has performed so poorly for so long, and pretty much since it became so well known. I know this effect has been discussed widely, and I'm very curious about how this plays out.

At some point I'm sure SCV will bounce back, but sometimes asset classes are low for a reason, and will stay low as long as conditions are unchanged. markets can shift, and long standing relationships unwind.

I suspect LCG and MCG will continue to do well, simply because the power of technology and automation is really only just being deployed. The impact on the labor market is one thing (and it has the potential to be substantial.) It's impact on these classifications of stocks that we use is another (growth vs value, LC vs SC, etc), and I worry that may skew those relationships for a decade or two longer before we see a sustained 'regression to the mean'. Time will tell. Best of luck with your choices.
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2pedals
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:19 pm It is fair to say that Bogle didn't believe in factors, he probably created the Growth and Value index funds to meet investor demand. He also envisioned that folks would use Growth while working and go to the Value Index while retired. The Value Index is more conservative and generates more income, he thought it would be perfect for retirees.
I am curious to know if Jack departed from the growth index in while working and value index while retired approach. I can't see myself in retirement switching to value in retirement. I like the 3 fund approach. If 10 years is just noise for factor investing, I don't think it makes it is good financial sense to be invested in growth for the first 40 years and for the last 20 years invest in value. It might work out and then again might not. If you want more or less risk just adjust your asset allocation and be happy to get market returns for your equity allocation portion.
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nedsaid
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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2pedals wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:21 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:19 pm It is fair to say that Bogle didn't believe in factors, he probably created the Growth and Value index funds to meet investor demand. He also envisioned that folks would use Growth while working and go to the Value Index while retired. The Value Index is more conservative and generates more income, he thought it would be perfect for retirees.
I am curious to know if Jack departed from the growth index in while working and value index while retired approach. I can't see myself in retirement switching to value in retirement. I like the 3 fund approach. If 10 years is just noise for factor investing, I don't think it makes it is good financial sense to be invested in growth for the first 40 years and for the last 20 years invest in value. It might work out and then again might not. If you want more or less risk just adjust your asset allocation and be happy to get market returns for your equity allocation portion.
My guess that most of Jack's portfolio was in the basic index funds we discuss here. But he did express fondness for the Wellington fund, which right now is about 70% stocks and 30% bonds and cash. Funny that the stylebox for that fund is Large Value, weird for a guy that said he didn't believe in factors. We know that he had legacy investments from Wellington and that he invested in his son's Quantitative funds. We also know that he owned 100 shares of T. Rowe Price. I doubt that Jack switched anything to Value Index or ever invested in it himself. Actually, he never really retired.

It was also weird that while Jack did not believe in factors per se, he did realize that the future expected returns for stocks were low when stocks were expensive and high when stocks were cheap. He also loved that Wellington Fund. So the guy who said he didn't believe in factors, in a backhand sort of way did. By the way, Jack did sell much of his stocks in 1999 or early 2000 and purchased bonds. The original version of the story said that he went from 70/30 to 30/70. A later version said that he went from 70/30 to 50/50 and did that over a couple of years. The point was that Bogle thought the stock market was too expensive and took action.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by fennewaldaj »

hdas wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:54 am
fennewaldaj wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:44 am
Isn't it not quite right to compare the ratio of prices between large growth and small value? Small value has higher dividends than large growth generally so the same total return equals less etf share price appreciation.
The prices I use are adjusted for dividend. And my data is accurate. Sorry if the facts don't acomódate your preferences. Cheers :greedy
Ok. Sorry I was confused by exactly what you were comparing.
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nedsaid
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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Well, Jack Bogle does deserve investing Sainthood. He has more than 2 portfolio miracles attributed to him. :wink: So many people here who say that he changed their lives. The Fidelity Index funds that I invest in wouldn't exist were it not for Mr. Bogle.
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nedsaid
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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I do want to defend Taylor here. Mr. Bogle was a man of immense accomplishment who also left us quite a legacy of books, speeches, interview and the output was voluminous. The man and his accomplishments should be honored and admired.

Also I know that Taylor and Mr. Bogle were friends. It is a good thing when someone says good things about a friend, someone who did so much good for so many people. Also a good thing to honor someone after they have passed.

I started watching Mr. Bogle when he was a guest of Louis Rukeyser's Wall $treet Week. I read articles about him and the indexing revolution in financial publications. Money magazine and Jason Zweig produced the famous article entitled "Here come the Bogleheads." I found this site probably in the 2000's, probably about 2007 or 2008. Lurked a few years before starting to post here in 2012. I have learned a lot from this forum.

It took a while but his message of low cost, low turnover index investing started getting out. I remember starting to hear about indexing in the 1990's. The 1980's and the 1990's were the golden age of the no-load mutual funds and that in itself was a big thing. After the 2000 crash, do-it-yourself investors flocked to advisors and load mutual funds. Thus most of the no-load fund companies sold and became load funds. So the last refuge for the do-it-yourself investor were the very few fund families that stayed no-load and Vanguard and its stable of index funds. As no-load funds were on the endangered list, another trend emerged and that was the rise of the ETFs. Bogle didn't invent ETFs of course but the emerging popularity of index funds help the ETF industry as well. So if it wasn't for Mr. Bogle, we might all have to be paying those awful 8 1/2% loads again. So whether we are Vanguard customers or not, we all owe Mr. Bogle a debt of gratitude.

So yes, in investing terms he was a Saint. He gave millions of investors a fair shake.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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{I deleted an off-topic comment about another member}.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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A little respect goes a long way - and it’s not difficult. :beer
rascott
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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Portfolio7 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:24 pm I am open to the idea, but literally am not buying it: while low relative valuations do suggest a strong comeback at some point, who knows when?

SCG is still beating SCV virtually every up day (and losing many down days... but we all know there are more up days over time.) It's a point of fascination for me, not because I want to change my investments, but because SCV has performed so poorly for so long, and pretty much since it became so well known. I know this effect has been discussed widely, and I'm very curious about how this plays out.

At some point I'm sure SCV will bounce back, but sometimes asset classes are low for a reason, and will stay low as long as conditions are unchanged. markets can shift, and long standing relationships unwind.

I suspect LCG and MCG will continue to do well, simply because the power of technology and automation is really only just being deployed. The impact on the labor market is one thing (and it has the potential to be substantial.) It's impact on these classifications of stocks that we use is another (growth vs value, LC vs SC, etc), and I worry that may skew those relationships for a decade or two longer before we see a sustained 'regression to the mean'. Time will tell. Best of luck with your choices.


This confuses me.....SCV (I use SLVY)....is up 14.4% CAGR over the last decade. TSMI is up 14.58%. So holding SCV made almost no difference in returns.... But they didn't move in lockstep at all, quite the opposite actually. So a portfolio holding both would have had a smoother ride upward.

We certainly have been in a growth dominant market recently....with SCG up roughly 16.12% CAGR over the last decade. And LCG up 15.77%. Again using the SP indexes.

And guess what....LCV (RPV) beats them all....up 16.61% over the last decade.


None of these numbers are exactly mind blowing in their divergences.

Let's not forget this came after a decade when large/growth did terrible.

So can't say I agree with your assessment, unless you are only focused upon very recent years. All the more, it just reaffirms my position to hold a diversified portfolio, rather than try to guess which of these asset classes will do better in the next 10 years.
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deltaneutral83
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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rascott wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:33 am
This confuses me.....SCV (I use SLVY)....is up 14.4% CAGR over the last decade. TSMI is up 14.58%. So holding SCV made almost no difference in returns.... But they didn't move in lockstep at all, quite the opposite actually. So a portfolio holding both would have had a smoother ride upward.

We certainly have been in a growth dominant market recently....with SCG up roughly 16.12% CAGR over the last decade. And LCG up 15.77%. Again using the SP indexes.
For your equities in your AA, I feel like if you're anything other than Total World (VT) you're tilting and you better be comfortable with decade long bouts of under-performance. I am 25% Tot Intl and a small tilt to domestic SCV (in addition to the majority being in VTI). I'm prepared (and currently enduring) for some decade long bouts of underperformance with SCV and my 25% to Intl as opposed to whatever else does better. I guess I'm doing better than the 48% Tot Intl by market cap since I'm only 25% but lagging in SCV the last 8 years, oh well. I'm sticking to my plan. The International and SCV discussions are not as relevant as people think and I bet 40 years from now we can bump this thread and will see that, but who knows, only thing I can do now is stick to my plan.

I just think one can't be anything other than Total World and then suggesting to others to tilt in the way one tilts, which is exactly what one is doing unless one is Total World. It's just subjective to say the least.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by HippoSir »

Looks like the pain isn't over...

IJS/VUG == 0.87

:annoyed
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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rascott wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:33 am
Portfolio7 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:24 pm I am open to the idea, but literally am not buying it: while low relative valuations do suggest a strong comeback at some point, who knows when?

SCG is still beating SCV virtually every up day (and losing many down days... but we all know there are more up days over time.) It's a point of fascination for me, not because I want to change my investments, but because SCV has performed so poorly for so long, and pretty much since it became so well known. I know this effect has been discussed widely, and I'm very curious about how this plays out.

At some point I'm sure SCV will bounce back, but sometimes asset classes are low for a reason, and will stay low as long as conditions are unchanged. markets can shift, and long standing relationships unwind.

I suspect LCG and MCG will continue to do well, simply because the power of technology and automation is really only just being deployed. The impact on the labor market is one thing (and it has the potential to be substantial.) It's impact on these classifications of stocks that we use is another (growth vs value, LC vs SC, etc), and I worry that may skew those relationships for a decade or two longer before we see a sustained 'regression to the mean'. Time will tell. Best of luck with your choices.


This confuses me.....SCV (I use SLVY)....is up 14.4% CAGR over the last decade. TSMI is up 14.58%. So holding SCV made almost no difference in returns.... But they didn't move in lockstep at all, quite the opposite actually. So a portfolio holding both would have had a smoother ride upward.

We certainly have been in a growth dominant market recently....with SCG up roughly 16.12% CAGR over the last decade. And LCG up 15.77%. Again using the SP indexes.

And guess what....LCV (RPV) beats them all....up 16.61% over the last decade.


None of these numbers are exactly mind blowing in their divergences.

Let's not forget this came after a decade when large/growth did terrible.

So can't say I agree with your assessment, unless you are only focused upon very recent years. All the more, it just reaffirms my position to hold a diversified portfolio, rather than try to guess which of these asset classes will do better in the next 10 years.
As far as investment styles go, I may sometimes tilt a little one way or the other, but I'm mostly in blended index funds (except for VMNVX Global Min Vol, which is mildly active.) Diversification means something different to different people, especially when factors are involved, but when it comes all definitions I'm aware of except factors, I agree. For the most part, I aim to simply hold a diversified portfolio. Relative to factors, I don't believe in them enough to try to diversify across them. Just to make it clear I'm not trying to actively guess outperformance...rather I was responding to the OP.

The SCG vs SCV is just a thing that interests me. I should have limited that comment, so to be clear I've just been following VBK vs VBR the past couple years or so. I realize that both have a chunk of midcap in them, but I'm not trying to be a purist. In any case, as you say, one can probably hold VBK with relatively little loss relative to one's other core holdings. But my point wasn't that SCV is a terrible investment; I don't believe that. I just don't buy the argument that I should be backing up the truck to buy SCV at this moment in time, as was my reading of the OP's comments. This is why I was focused on a short term statement: not only do I see no evidence of a turn, I'm not buying that this relationship that was proposed over-rides all the other market variables, or should be interpreted in the manner suggested. I'll continue to buy my mix of funds in the same proportions.

Regarding growth and value, I do suspect that some historical relationships may be changing, (certainly there has been a lot of ink spilled in the past few years about the poor performance of value)... but to be clear I did not propose that anyone change their AA, nor predict winners for any time period. Didn't mean to confuse anyone on that score.
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rascott
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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SCV on fire this week, while the major indexes flat. Hopefully a trend break!
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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Yes US SCV seems to do well now. Unfortunately I can't say the same about International and EM SCV.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by rascott »

Small caps currently trading at a cheaper valuation than large caps....which is rather the reverse of "norm"....so likely just seeing some reversion to the mean...

Fed Rate cut also expected to help small caps balance sheets more so than large caps...as they don't have access to the direct capital debt markets, but rather often use variable rate financing from banks.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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I'll have to ask my guy if it's a good time to bet the farm on SCV.

Just kidding, I don't have a guy or a farm.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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whodidntante wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:18 pm I'll have to ask my guy if it's a good time to bet the farm on SCV.

Just kidding, I don't have a guy or a farm.
lol
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garlandwhizzer
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by garlandwhizzer »

DFSVX was down 2.84% today, so perhaps it's a bit early to rejoice for SCV. Reversion to the mean for SCV should occur at some point, but when remains a question.

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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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hdas wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:37 pm Your weekly reminder of the awfulness of VFVA...down 3.66% today. Cheers :greedy
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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hdas wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:37 pm Your weekly reminder of the awfulness of VFVA...down 3.66% today. Cheers :greedy
Yep. Come get some.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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Small Caps are on the verge of a bear market... S&P 600 is now 18% below it's 2018 high.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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countmein wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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hdas wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:51 pm
DecumulatorDoc wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:46 pm
countmein wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
Isn’t this the fund that Swedroe is buying for SCV of his clients? H
Hdas, I don't know, but this thread isn't really about advisers or active funds (there are other threads to disparage BAM on this forum). We're Bogleheads which means we like low cost index funds and we are encouraged to ignore the noise, like short term results. I guess highlighting BOTSX 1 year performance is effective if you want to show a worse case scenario. You will see a lot of market weight folks quoting 1 year performance right now, as it is exactly 1 year since the all time highs of SCV. One year of under-performance does not indicate a poor decision or prove a point.

Using a S&P Small-Cap 600 Value Index Fund (IJS or VIOV) and long term, total return results is probably the best way to drive a point across on this forum no matter where you stand.

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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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DecumulatorDoc wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:46 pm
countmein wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
BOTSX is Larry's choice for SCV-- Best in class for Boglehead tilters (with access). Available only to BAM clients. The fact that it is doing so poorly is due to the fact that it is the most efficient and optimally-constructed of the SCV funds. That's how tilting works-- when your factors go bad, your fund better be stinking or else something's not right.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

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countmein wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:29 pm
DecumulatorDoc wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:46 pm
countmein wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
BOTSX is Larry's choice for SCV-- Best in class for Boglehead tilters (with access). Available only to BAM clients. The fact that it is doing so poorly is due to the fact that it is the most efficient and optimally-constructed of the SCV funds. That's how tilting works-- when your factors go bad, your fund better be stinking or else something's not right.
True points. I bet they weren't complaining when they made 43% in 2013 or 35% in 2016.

Larry has probably told his clients that these funds come with some volatility.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by rascott »

YRT70 wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:24 am
countmein wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:29 pm
DecumulatorDoc wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:46 pm
countmein wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
BOTSX is Larry's choice for SCV-- Best in class for Boglehead tilters (with access). Available only to BAM clients. The fact that it is doing so poorly is due to the fact that it is the most efficient and optimally-constructed of the SCV funds. That's how tilting works-- when your factors go bad, your fund better be stinking or else something's not right.
True points. I bet they weren't complaining when they made 43% in 2013 or 35% in 2016.

Larry has probably told his clients that these funds come with some volatility.
Yet still badly trailing the SCV index (SP600 value) since inception.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by Random Walker »

countmein wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:29 pm
DecumulatorDoc wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:46 pm
countmein wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
BOTSX is Larry's choice for SCV-- Best in class for Boglehead tilters (with access). Available only to BAM clients. The fact that it is doing so poorly is due to the fact that it is the most efficient and optimally-constructed of the SCV funds. That's how tilting works-- when your factors go bad, your fund better be stinking or else something's not right.
This is why I think benchmarking to indices is a bit pointless. What matters is that a fund passively adheres to it's factor targets. As stated above, a fund with deeper factor exposures than a similar fund or index will do better when the factor does well and worse when the factor does poorly.

Why would an investor possibly want a more expensive fund with deeper exposures when he could instead use more of a less expensive fund with less deep exposures to obtain the same portfolio factor tilts? Here’s a couple of reasons. First, factor funds tend to be more expensive. One requires less of the more expensive fund with deeper exposures to obtain the desired portfolio factor tilts. Comcomitantly, he uses relatively more of the cheaper TSM or core fund. So the difference in expenses is not as significant as people think. Second, the goal of factor investing is to diversify away from the factor that dominates all of our portfolios, market beta. When one uses a factor fund with deeper exposures, he needs to take on less additional market beta risk to obtain his desired portfolio factor exposures. Thus a slightly stronger move in the direction of risk parity. Third, there may be other advantages to the more expensive fund: tax management, patient trading, screens for other factors.

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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by Random Walker »

rascott wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:14 am Yet still badly trailing the SCV index (SP600 value) since inception.
Exactly what one would expect in a period dominated by large cap growth

Dave
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by countmein »

rascott wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:14 am
YRT70 wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:24 am
countmein wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:29 pm
DecumulatorDoc wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:46 pm
countmein wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
BOTSX is Larry's choice for SCV-- Best in class for Boglehead tilters (with access). Available only to BAM clients. The fact that it is doing so poorly is due to the fact that it is the most efficient and optimally-constructed of the SCV funds. That's how tilting works-- when your factors go bad, your fund better be stinking or else something's not right.
True points. I bet they weren't complaining when they made 43% in 2013 or 35% in 2016.

Larry has probably told his clients that these funds come with some volatility.
Yet still badly trailing the SCV index (SP600 value) since inception.
It doesn't have the same exposure as that index, so naturally it won't track it. Why is this concept so complicated? Blame it on Morningstar and their "style boxes", I guess.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by rascott »

countmein wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:07 am
rascott wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:14 am
YRT70 wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:24 am
countmein wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:29 pm
DecumulatorDoc wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:46 pm

Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
BOTSX is Larry's choice for SCV-- Best in class for Boglehead tilters (with access). Available only to BAM clients. The fact that it is doing so poorly is due to the fact that it is the most efficient and optimally-constructed of the SCV funds. That's how tilting works-- when your factors go bad, your fund better be stinking or else something's not right.
True points. I bet they weren't complaining when they made 43% in 2013 or 35% in 2016.

Larry has probably told his clients that these funds come with some volatility.
Yet still badly trailing the SCV index (SP600 value) since inception.
It doesn't have the same exposure as that index, so naturally it won't track it. Why is this concept so complicated? Blame it on Morningstar and their "style boxes", I guess.
Uh....I fully understand it....my response was only to the post about the couple years of big returns. No biggie.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by YRT70 »

rascott wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:14 am
YRT70 wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:24 am
countmein wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:29 pm
DecumulatorDoc wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:46 pm
countmein wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm Bridgeway Omni Small Value (BOTSX), 1 year returns: -25%

kewl :greedy
Don't know this fund, but I am going to guess this is a cherry picker's bonanza: active fund, high ER, worst time period of short term performance. Not exactly Boglehead-like. :confused
BOTSX is Larry's choice for SCV-- Best in class for Boglehead tilters (with access). Available only to BAM clients. The fact that it is doing so poorly is due to the fact that it is the most efficient and optimally-constructed of the SCV funds. That's how tilting works-- when your factors go bad, your fund better be stinking or else something's not right.
True points. I bet they weren't complaining when they made 43% in 2013 or 35% in 2016.

Larry has probably told his clients that these funds come with some volatility.
Yet still badly trailing the SCV index (SP600 value) since inception.
Given the great results of small cap growth lately, I'm not surprised by this. Deeper value exposure hasn't been a good thing.
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Post by hdas »

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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by YRT70 »

IJS went up 3% in one hour this morning. That was nice. Don't think I've seen that before. Seems to be slowly going down now.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by caklim00 »

I definitely don't monitor the movements but I'm still waiting on my SLYV, ISCF and DFEVX heavy portfolio to bounce back. my small hedgefundie portion has been killing it though lol.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by rustymutt »

In 2020 (less than 4 months) we can start the roaring 20's all over. Party like it's 1920. What goes up, averages out over time, one way or the other. Good luck to all you who bank on SCV alone.
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Post by hdas »

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1789
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by 1789 »

Need to buy more of this. Dang
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by Portfolio7 »

hdas wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:48 am Massive good day for SCV in absolute and relative terms. Momentum and Low Vol getting whacked. Cheers :greedy
SCV has shown a few signs of strength during the year, but over the past week or so SCV performance is looking strong every day. Note that vs 1 year ago, I think most SCG funds are still in better position than SCV funds (down less from their peaks).

I'm considering resetting my SC allocation to my default as part of my monthly checkup. My default is 8% Small Cap Blend. I've had 4% SC blend and 4% SCG for the past couple years.

I'm not planning on changing my total SC allocation... but I'm becoming more nuetral between value & growth.
Last edited by Portfolio7 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Small Cap Value heads Rejoice !!!

Post by KyleAAA »

Are us tilters rich yet? A good 10 years of out-performance would be great.
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