Jim Cramer

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mikemikemike
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Jim Cramer

Post by mikemikemike » Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 am

I don't get it. The past several days, he's been talking like the sky is falling and we should get out of stocks for the most part. Today, it's "time to buy amidst market weakness". Literally nothing meaningful has changed in the past few days, except for a slight (a few % at most) decline in the S&P 500.

I think I'm starting to realize just how inane the finance media is. I mean, I always realized that they didn't necessarily know the future, but I at least thought they had some meaningful insights.

Now I'm thinking (for Cramer at least), that he's literally just spewing random attention-grabbing headlines, to generate viewers (and hence $) for himself and CNBC.

What am I missing here?

GoldenFinch
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by GoldenFinch » Thu May 30, 2019 5:40 am

You are missing nothing.

He gets paid for manic talking. You have to listen closely to follow what he’s saying and he jumps all over the place. It’s kind of like the usual, “The sky is falling!” one minute to the “The economy is on steroids!” mantra, but on fast forward and overdrive. Sometimes even his colleagues look perplexed.

Call_Me_Op
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Call_Me_Op » Thu May 30, 2019 5:47 am

My question is why would you think (or have thought) there is value in listening to any speculator?
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

student
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by student » Thu May 30, 2019 5:48 am

I agree with your assessment.

bondsr4me
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by bondsr4me » Thu May 30, 2019 5:49 am

Cramer is just too wild for me anymore.

One day (when market is on a roll up) he's talking stocks forever.

Now with the markets in the tank he's singing a different tune....classic market timer and momentum guy.

I don't enjoy listening to his rants and it seems (to me anyway) he, just like Joe Kernen, is interjecting more politics into his spew.
That's not financial news.

I do enjoy listening to David Faber..."the brain"...he's good IMHO.
He's always very controlled in his speaking.

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Psyayeayeduck
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Psyayeayeduck » Thu May 30, 2019 5:52 am

He's loud, opinionated, and all over the place on a daily basis. Perfect for TV.

Remember that a TV's show purpose is for viewers to watch TV ads which translates to :moneybag. The TV show itself is just a distraction for ads.

Mr.BB
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Mr.BB » Thu May 30, 2019 6:01 am

Go find the classic episode where a caller called asked if his money was safe with Bear Stearns
The only thing that probably stayed Cramer from being fired was the guy did not specifically say stock in Bear Stearns and later Cramer said he thought the guy meant his savings account. course who calls in his show the talk about savings account and of course the next day Bear Stearns folded.
Last edited by Mr.BB on Thu May 30, 2019 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

Topic Author
mikemikemike
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by mikemikemike » Thu May 30, 2019 6:03 am

Mr.BB wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 6:01 am
Go find the classic episode where a caller called asked if his money was safe with Bear Stearns
The only thing that probably stayed Crramer from being fired was the guy did not specifically say stock in Bear Stearns and later Crammer said he thought the guy meant his savings account. course who calls in his show the talk about savings account and of course the next day Bear Stearns folded.
Wow! That's a pretty strong un-endorsement. Thanks for sharing.

Mr.BB
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Mr.BB » Thu May 30, 2019 7:27 am

Also check out "Leonard the monkey" and how this monkey had a better stock-picking record than Jim Cramer. That should say it all.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

deltaneutral83
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu May 30, 2019 7:33 am

Cramer has stated he thinks people need to buy index funds with retirement money and "mad" money is a small portion to lose money on single stocks and watch his show. His TV show is choreographed entertainment like professional wrestling. Don't know why people would watch it unless you understand it's theater.

life in slices
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by life in slices » Thu May 30, 2019 7:40 am

Cramer is the "clickbait" equivalent for TV - controversy, doom and disaster sells (unfortunately)

Schlabba
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Schlabba » Thu May 30, 2019 7:54 am

Jim cramer is one of the best reasons for the ‘don’t peek’ rule.

Don’t look at your money, don’t follow financial news. It only distracts.

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JoMoney
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by JoMoney » Thu May 30, 2019 7:57 am

Cramer's manic behavior is very entertaining. Sometimes he has guests that have something interesting to say.

Cramer endorsed John Bogle's "Little Book of Common Sense Investing", and on the regular basis recommends that people use a low-cost S&P 500 index fund. Cramer's endorsement of low-cost indexing doesn't help indexing as a strategy, but at least he gets something right on occasion.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

Dottie57
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Dottie57 » Thu May 30, 2019 8:00 am

When watching Cramer, my head hurts. So I don’t watch.

notinuse
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by notinuse » Thu May 30, 2019 8:05 am

You are correct, and it is not new. He has been doing this for a long time, and he still has viewers. I don't get it.

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Stinky
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Stinky » Thu May 30, 2019 8:17 am

mikemikemike wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 am

I think I'm starting to realize just how inane the finance media is.
+1

Great observation.
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt

ohai
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by ohai » Thu May 30, 2019 8:22 am

The point of Cramer and similar is to provide background noise in finance work places. Sometimes, they will say something quotable. That's about it.

MichCPA
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by MichCPA » Thu May 30, 2019 8:41 am

Mr.BB wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 6:01 am
Go find the classic episode where a caller called asked if his money was safe with Bear Stearns
The only thing that probably stayed Cramer from being fired was the guy did not specifically say stock in Bear Stearns and later Cramer said he thought the guy meant his savings account. course who calls in his show the talk about savings account and of course the next day Bear Stearns folded.
+1 Any rational person will swear off Jim Cramer after watching the Daily Show segment on his Bear Stearns recommendation. He should really be on Comedy Central more often, it was hilarious.

aristotelian
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by aristotelian » Thu May 30, 2019 8:48 am

Cramer is great at expressing the emotional pulse of the market. The problem is, the emotional pulse of the market is reactive rather than predictive, and irrational, driven primarily by fear and greed.

anil686
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by anil686 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:00 am

CNBC and other media outlets are designed to get you to do something - not just stand there. However, most investors are better just standing there. In all fairness, he is probably the most outspoken index advocate on that network along with Quick and Matheson. But the latter two just seem to challenge guests that either put down or attack indexing. Cramer actually suggests indexing - in fact I have heard him mention more the SP500 index fund in the past calendar year on Mad Money than ever before. I think he did a week long retirement special thing on Mad Money and recommended at least the first $10,000 dollars be invested in a low cost SP500 index fund. Then all the serious money you need in an SP500 index fund. Then taking chances with stocks. I thought that was pretty good advice for many of the viewers - then he continued and - as expected - put foot in mouth. Somebody called asking about a total stock market fund over an SP500, and he stammered, stumbled and then said how he just likes American companies and that you should keep the SP500 fund, not a total world fund. It was like he was unaware TSM funds even exist - but hey at least he was extolling the virtues of the SP500...

bizkitgto
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by bizkitgto » Thu May 30, 2019 9:09 am

If you listen to what Cramer is talking about - he's actually talking about what the market is doing "right now". Cramer was a trader, and they think and move with the ebbs and flows of the market: little changes in treasury yield impact the S&P 500 and so so fourth. When he's on CNBC reporting from the NYSE, he is talking about 'right now', and for traders this is what they care about and how they think. If you want to try and understand the heartbeat of the market, then he's usually correct (he's trying to explain what and why something happened looking back). He will freak out over a 1% move in SPY because the Yen did something, but it could be all reversed in an hour, so adjust your time frame when listening to him because traders try to explain market moves and how it ties to geopolitics and macroeconomics.
Last edited by bizkitgto on Thu May 30, 2019 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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niceguy7376
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by niceguy7376 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:09 am

mikemikemike wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 am
What am I missing here?
He is making ton of money doing this infotainment show.

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Jim Cramer in Miami

Post by Taylor Larimore » Thu May 30, 2019 9:20 am

Bogleheads:

In March of 2000, at the peak of a bull market, Mr. Bogle and Mr. Cramer were keynote speakers at a Miami Money Show. Mr. Bogle warned about the stock "bubble" and urged his listeners to maintain a healthy allocation to bonds.

Mr. Bogle was followed by Jim Cramer. Mel and I stood in the back of the auditorium as Mr. Cramer told us to write down the name of "10 stocks for who is going to make it in the New World."

So what happened?

Alan Abelson in an April, 2004, column in Barron's wrote: "His (Cramer's) 10 dot-com bubble picks of 2000, ended up tanking by an average of -90%."

Jim Cramer is dangerous.

Best wishes
Taylor
Last edited by Taylor Larimore on Thu May 30, 2019 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rh00p
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by rh00p » Thu May 30, 2019 9:23 am

IMO the only two financial programs to watch is Nightly Business Report (NBR) and WealthTrack. Each episode of the former is like an edition of the Wall Street Journal. The latter is an excellent weekly on all aspects of personal finance. Both are on PBS.
Preparing for the worst. Hoping for the best.

wolf359
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by wolf359 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:23 am

Mr.BB wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 6:01 am
Go find the classic episode where a caller called asked if his money was safe with Bear Stearns
The only thing that probably stayed Cramer from being fired was the guy did not specifically say stock in Bear Stearns and later Cramer said he thought the guy meant his savings account. course who calls in his show the talk about savings account and of course the next day Bear Stearns folded.
Article about the Cramer Bear Stearns recommendation, with links to the videos. https://www.mediaite.com/tv/tbt-ten-yea ... -showdown/

This was a series of back-and-forth statements between Jon Stewart and Jim Cramer about the Cramer Bear Stearns recommendation.

Cramer wasn't fired because he was doing his job. His job is do an entertaining show about business for people to watch.

He's good at his job. People are still watching.

260chrisb
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by 260chrisb » Thu May 30, 2019 9:25 am

The bottom line is that these guys and gals have to have something to talk about every day the market is open. Week in and week out that's what they get paid to do. If I didn't hold a strong belief in the ways of Bogleheads I'm not sure what I would do with the information thrown out every day of the week. I do watch some days, find Bloomberg to be better, and never feel as though I've missed anything if I didn't watch for 30-45 minutes some mornings.

FOGU
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by FOGU » Thu May 30, 2019 9:27 am

Stinky wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:17 am
mikemikemike wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 am

I think I'm starting to realize just how inane the finance media is.
+1

Great observation.
There is no truth in the news, and no news in the truth.

That includes the financial news channels.

Change the channel, or better yet just turn the thing off. You'll be happier and live longer.
~ Don't just do something. Sit there. ~

Coltrane75
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Coltrane75 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:33 am

mikemikemike wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 am
I don't get it. The past several days, he's been talking like the sky is falling and we should get out of stocks for the most part. Today, it's "time to buy amidst market weakness". Literally nothing meaningful has changed in the past few days, except for a slight (a few % at most) decline in the S&P 500.

I think I'm starting to realize just how inane the finance media is. I mean, I always realized that they didn't necessarily know the future, but I at least thought they had some meaningful insights.

Now I'm thinking (for Cramer at least), that he's literally just spewing random attention-grabbing headlines, to generate viewers (and hence $) for himself and CNBC.

What am I missing here?
Nothing. Jim Cramer is just infotainment; his "advice" should be ignored. Financial media is sensationalist clap trap peppered with financial advertising peddling bad products.

lostdog
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by lostdog » Thu May 30, 2019 9:38 am

Sometimes I watch CNBC while I'm working out at the gym. I came to the conclusion that all of the talk from the anchors at the desk is comparable to sports casters calling a sporting event. Mostly noise and guesses with calling market movements in between. Really, it's all mostly junk on CNBC.
I don't invest looking in the rear view mirror and I know absolutely nothing about the future.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Sandtrap » Thu May 30, 2019 9:41 am

aristotelian wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:48 am
Cramer is great at expressing the emotional pulse of the market. The problem is, the emotional pulse of the market is reactive rather than predictive, and irrational, driven primarily by fear and greed.
+1
Per the "Wiki" "Behavioral Pitfalls", drama is fatal to staying the course.

But. . . OTOH.. . many folks thrive on drama. . thus Cramer's popularity.

j
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

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Sandtrap
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Sandtrap » Thu May 30, 2019 9:44 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:00 am
When watching Cramer, my head hurts. So I don’t watch.
+1
Similar to Saturday/Sunday morning (or all day) "financial advice from expert FA companies/Wealth Managers" on the radio.
I imagine, to the uninformed, financial experts really do sound very very wise on these programs.

Fortunately there are other stations. . . .

j
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

Rus In Urbe
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Rus In Urbe » Thu May 30, 2019 9:52 am

Total garbage.

Not only not worth your time, but damaging---like junk food for the brain.

He's a complete fraud. Knows nothing. Only there to rant to try to get eyes on the tube.
I'd like to live as a poor man with lots of money. ~Pablo Picasso

knowledge
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by knowledge » Thu May 30, 2019 10:01 am

It's amazing.

I'm positive that someone out there has tracked his prediction record and compared it to indices. I'm also quite certain that his predictions are quite terrible. He's been on the air for some 15(?) years. Every day he adds more data to that legacy.

I would have guessed that he's irrelevant at this point, but folks are still watching.

It boils down to...he's great TV, and that's it.

PVW
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by PVW » Thu May 30, 2019 10:08 am

mikemikemike wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 am
but I at least thought they had some meaningful insights.

What am I missing here?
Why did you think Jim Cramer had meaningful insights?

What you are missing is that you are not able to objectively evaluate financial advice like this. For me, this is the most important tenet of being a boglehead - I don't know nothing, so be happy with being average.

GrowthSeeker
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by GrowthSeeker » Thu May 30, 2019 10:19 am

I don't pay attention to Jim Cramer anymore. I used to find him entertaining. When I first discovered him, I thought he was pretty impressive, but that impression on me faded fast.

If I had to guess as to why he's singing this tune now: maybe the yield curve being a bit more inverted, and maybe the S&P breaking below a support/resistance line about a week ago.

meh
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.

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StormShadow
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by StormShadow » Thu May 30, 2019 10:23 am

mikemikemike wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 am
Now I'm thinking (for Cramer at least), that he's literally just spewing random attention-grabbing headlines, to generate viewers (and hence $) for himself and CNBC.
Bingo.

dh
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by dh » Thu May 30, 2019 10:26 am

I am probably the outlier in that I enjoy his show. He has a sharp wit and his book "Confession of a Street Addict" is hilarious. I haven't read his financial books, nor would I ever follow his financial advice!!! However, as entertainment he is good value. Yet, I also loved the character George Costanza on Seinfeld. However, I would never want to be a George (in how I live my life) or a Jim (in how I invest). Both are simply good for a laugh.

Mr.BB
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Re: Jim Cramer in Miami

Post by Mr.BB » Thu May 30, 2019 12:20 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:20 am
Bogleheads:

In March of 2000, at the peak of a bull market, Mr. Bogle and Mr. Cramer were keynote speakers at a Miami Money Show. Mr. Bogle warned about the stock "bubble" and urged his listeners to maintain a healthy allocation to bonds.

Mr. Bogle was followed by Jim Cramer. Mel and I stood in the back of the auditorium as Mr. Cramer told us to write down the name of "10 stocks for who is going to make it in the New World."

So what happened?

Alan Abelson in an April, 2004, column in Barron's wrote: "His (Cramer's) 10 dot-com bubble picks of 2000, ended up tanking by an average of -90%."

Jim Cramer is dangerous.

Best wishes
Taylor
+1
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

TropikThunder
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by TropikThunder » Thu May 30, 2019 12:21 pm

dh wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:26 am
I am probably the outlier in that I enjoy his show. He has a sharp wit and his book "Confession of a Street Addict" is hilarious. I haven't read his financial books, nor would I ever follow his financial advice!!! However, as entertainment he is good value. Yet, I also loved the character George Costanza on Seinfeld. However, I would never want to be a George (in how I live my life) or a Jim (in how I invest). Both are simply good for a laugh.
George Costanza never presented himself as an example of how to live. Cramer presents himself as an example of how to invest, regardless of how effective his advice would be (not very).

Glockenspiel
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Glockenspiel » Thu May 30, 2019 12:43 pm

The finance media is almost as bad as the other media organization that begins with the letter "F". They will literally say anything to cause a reaction. Reactions and controversy sell advertising dollars.

Imagine if there was a "Boglehead" Finance News Channel. It would be the most boring (and one of the lowest rated) finance news channels ever. "Stay the Course!" "Don't do anything!" "You only need one fund, the Total World Stock Index Fund."

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Ged
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Ged » Thu May 30, 2019 1:00 pm

mikemikemike wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 am
What am I missing here?
A reason to listen to this person.

mptfan
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by mptfan » Thu May 30, 2019 1:04 pm

Glockenspiel wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 12:43 pm
Imagine if there was a "Boglehead" Finance News Channel. It would be the most boring (and one of the lowest rated) finance news channels ever. "Stay the Course!" "Don't do anything!" "You only need one fund, the Total World Stock Index Fund."
We could spice it up by presenting a contrary view..."You would be better off with a Three Fund Portfolio and rebalance annually." Let the sparks fly!

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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by azanon » Thu May 30, 2019 1:11 pm

Why do callers never say anything negative about him or his investing tactics? Do they pre-vet the calls, or is it on tape delay? I'm just thinking surely one of the more outspoken of us has attempted to call the show to "educate" Cramer. :)

Mr.BB
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Mr.BB » Thu May 30, 2019 1:16 pm

All these shows have screeners and delays to filter callers that might question him about his recommendations.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

phxjcc
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Re: Jim Cramer in Miami

Post by phxjcc » Thu May 30, 2019 2:10 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:20 am
Bogleheads:

In March of 2000, at the peak of a bull market, Mr. Bogle and Mr. Cramer were keynote speakers at a Miami Money Show. Mr. Bogle warned about the stock "bubble" and urged his listeners to maintain a healthy allocation to bonds.

Mr. Bogle was followed by Jim Cramer. Mel and I stood in the back of the auditorium as Mr. Cramer told us to write down the name of "10 stocks for who is going to make it in the New World."

So what happened?

Alan Abelson in an April, 2004, column in Barron's wrote: "His (Cramer's) 10 dot-com bubble picks of 2000, ended up tanking by an average of -90%."

Jim Cramer is dangerous.

Best wishes
Taylor
I agree with this...

In Feb 2000 I was in hospital for a minor issue and watched Cramer say "that the brick and mortar economy was dead, dump everything and buy internet stocks".

I happen to have been working on a rollout of a consumer internet product; one whose CIO said to me "it doesn't need to work, I just need to convince the VC guys that it WILL work, so we can do the IPO and get rich."

Also, Cramer held positions in companies he was pimping on-air.

Congress let him get away with it.

He should have gone to jail for clear conflict of interest.

He IS dangerous.

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fortyofforty
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by fortyofforty » Thu May 30, 2019 4:07 pm

Cramer repeatedly advocates for an inexpensive S&P 500 index fund, for at least the first $10,000 of any stock portfolio. Cramer is a stock picker. Always has been. Likely always will be. I don't blame Cramer for being Cramer. But he states repeatedly that an index fund is all many people should own, instead of trying to pick individual stocks when they have neither the time nor the inclination to do the research he believes is necessary to be successful at it.

People like Cramer and all the other stock pickers help set the prices of the stocks I own in my indexes. I listen (SiriusXM) and watch (CNBC) from time to time, but do not follow any of his individual stock advice. For me it's to get a general economic overview and a sense of the movement of the stock market.

Cramer is, I think, no better or worse than other stock pickers out there. He's just visible and appears daily, so his picks are highly public.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell | There are many roads to doublin'. | Original Vanguard Diehard

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Thu May 30, 2019 5:40 pm

Really? He's been saying that? On cable?

I believe I'll go out and buy me a brand new Ford F-150!

PJW

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Thu May 30, 2019 7:22 pm

I think this pretty much sums it up:
And who can forget Jim Cramer’s immortal advice to frightened viewers of NBC’s Today show in early October 2008? “Whatever money you may need for the next five years, please take it out of the stock market right now, this week,” he said. Need I say it? The S&P has risen 165% since then. Investors would have been better served following the advice of Kramer on Seinfeld.

source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this- ... 2018-09-18
Giddyup!

If you like the circus, then you'll love Cramer the carnival barker. Investing should be boring. Stop watching.
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

BrooklynInvest
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by BrooklynInvest » Thu May 30, 2019 7:40 pm

Jim Cramer ran a hedge fund in the 90s I believe. It became insolvent of course taking his and his families' money with it... and I'm sure some other people's. After this failure he decided to reinvent himself as a reality TV version of what some people unfortunately think a successful investor looks like.

My favorite Cramerism is his lauding of the investment genius of Lenny Dykstra, former baseball player for the Mets. Dykstra subsequently went bankrupt and then went to jail for quite some time.

Sad on several levels but that's the difference between reality TV persona and, well, reality.

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fortyofforty
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Re: Jim Cramer

Post by fortyofforty » Thu May 30, 2019 7:48 pm

Yes. Cramer's been saying that. On cable. Many times. Or, we can not watch and criticize what we haven't seen. Whatever. People change. Advice can change.

Years ago, I somehow was able to watch Wall Street Week with Louis Rukeyser and avoided buying and selling the stocks mentioned on his show every Friday evening. Amazing. I suppose I might have more self-control than others here. I merely file away the information on such shows, and websites like M* and New York Times, as entertainment mixed with economic news.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell | There are many roads to doublin'. | Original Vanguard Diehard

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