Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Topic Author
surfstar
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by surfstar » Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am

I mean, I'm all for the meatless meat movement and firmly believe in the technology, etc...

...but this seems like a good candidate to short. If I was into that sort of thing. (I'm not even sure of the mechanics of shorting a stock, thankfully - that way I would have no idea how to even attempt it!)

Instead I'll just place a wild, random claim here, with no money backing it up:

$40 per share within 30 days.

TropikThunder
Posts: 1540
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:41 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by TropikThunder » Thu May 02, 2019 11:35 am

surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am
...but this seems like a good candidate to short.
Based on what?

User avatar
Carlos Danger
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:32 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by Carlos Danger » Thu May 02, 2019 11:39 am

Nothing is ever a good candidate to short.

I don't have a problem with shortsellers like many seem to have, I'm just not going to become one. Or take up skydiving for that matter.

Topic Author
surfstar
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by surfstar » Thu May 02, 2019 11:42 am

TropikThunder wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:35 am
surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am
...but this seems like a good candidate to short.
Based on what?
IPO craze for a non-profitable company. I imagine it will dip soon - long term, who knows? It may get bought by Amazon or something.

This is all just a "feeling" - which is why I'd never act on it, unlike some market timers / "traders" that post on here :mrgreen:

lukestuckenhymer
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by lukestuckenhymer » Thu May 02, 2019 2:00 pm

If I was the kind of person to trade individual stocks (I never was), then maybe.

It's $6 for two patties at my supermarket. I looked at the nutrition facts, and it was pretty shocking. I couldn't believe they were trying to portray these overpriced plant burgers as healthy. It's pretty much the same amount of fat and calories as ground beef with 5 times the sodium. I will never be buying into that lunacy.

onourway
Posts: 1940
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by onourway » Thu May 02, 2019 2:10 pm

lukestuckenhymer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:00 pm
If I was the kind of person to trade individual stocks (I never was), then maybe.

It's $6 for two patties at my supermarket. I looked at the nutrition facts, and it was pretty shocking. I couldn't believe they were trying to portray these overpriced plant burgers as healthy. It's pretty much the same amount of fat and calories as ground beef with 5 times the sodium. I will never be buying into that lunacy.
I mean because fat, calories are meaningful measures of how healthy a food is for you. :oops: (Let's also note that in this case '5 times the sodium' is equal to about 15% of your daily suggested intake. Pretty low for what should be your main meal of the day...)

User avatar
mhadden1
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:14 pm
Location: North Alabama

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by mhadden1 » Thu May 02, 2019 2:14 pm

Conversely, could go long on meat.
Oh I can't, can I? That's what they said to Thomas Edison, mighty inventor, Thomas Lindberg, mighty flyer,and Thomas Shefsky, mighty like a rose.

scophreak
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:17 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by scophreak » Thu May 02, 2019 2:16 pm

lukestuckenhymer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:00 pm
If I was the kind of person to trade individual stocks (I never was), then maybe.

It's $6 for two patties at my supermarket. I looked at the nutrition facts, and it was pretty shocking. I couldn't believe they were trying to portray these overpriced plant burgers as healthy. It's pretty much the same amount of fat and calories as ground beef with 5 times the sodium. I will never be buying into that lunacy.
Perhaps someone can correct me, but I haven't personally seen the portrayals of these as "healthy". In fact I've seen quite the opposite with many sources suggesting utilizing these "burgers" as an occasional rather than everyday item. One huge difference is that the "burger" taste and feel is achieved without the use of animal products (if that's your thing). Certainly a greener choice overall, which is I believe the major hook and potential financial boon for the company with the current upswing in "alternative" meats.

One additional point: I'm not sure that any comparison (sodium, etc) to unseasoned ground beef is especially useful or accurate. How many of you eat your burgers unseasoned? I can guarantee you that any of the burgers you eat at a restaurant surely add additional sodium, etc.

aristotelian
Posts: 5791
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by aristotelian » Thu May 02, 2019 2:18 pm

I am shocked it went up. Apparently the institutional money thought it was undervalued. I would like to try one before making a decision. If it's good, I would consider buying.

DesertDiva
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: In the desert

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by DesertDiva » Thu May 02, 2019 2:19 pm

Maybe someday there will be a low-cost Meatless Index fund :twisted:
...and an Avocado Toast Index fund
Last edited by DesertDiva on Thu May 02, 2019 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MotoTrojan
Posts: 4924
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by MotoTrojan » Thu May 02, 2019 2:20 pm

surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:42 am
TropikThunder wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:35 am
surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am
...but this seems like a good candidate to short.
Based on what?
IPO craze for a non-profitable company. I imagine it will dip soon - long term, who knows? It may get bought by Amazon or something.

This is all just a "feeling" - which is why I'd never act on it, unlike some market timers / "traders" that post on here :mrgreen:
Do you know any of their fundamentals or are you literally just basing this off of the huge gain today? Very easily could've been priced in at a very low valuation because they are unprofitable, shot up from bargain hunters and activists alike, and still be a relatively low valuation.

GE could double tomorrow and still be well below its 5 year high. You can't just look at absolute moves and say if something is fairly valued.

lukestuckenhymer
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by lukestuckenhymer » Thu May 02, 2019 2:28 pm

onourway wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:10 pm
I mean because fat, calories are meaningful measures of how healthy a food is for you. :oops:
Please explain. Am I wrong to think high amounts of saturated fat and calories are bad for you?
I eat burgers on occasion, but the point I was trying to make is that buying an expensive plant-based burger that isn't any better for you isn't something I would be motivated to do.
scophreak wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:16 pm
Perhaps someone can correct me, but I haven't personally seen the portrayals of these as "healthy". In fact I've seen quite the opposite with many sources suggesting utilizing these "burgers" as an occasional rather than everyday item.
Whether it's explicit or not, that's the wave they're riding. "Plant-based," "100% vegan"... Unfortunately, these terms can be misused to persuade the consumer that any product is healthy when it may not be.
Last edited by lukestuckenhymer on Thu May 02, 2019 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CommitmentDevice
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:25 am

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by CommitmentDevice » Thu May 02, 2019 2:29 pm

FWIW, I love the Beyond Burger. I feel this with a surprising intensity and find myself recommending it to others often.

It is crave-worthy delicious and the first meat substitute to truly cross the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley of feeling like a real burger.

I don't know how to analyze company valuations and won't be buying/shorting this stock (or any other individual stock, for that matter). However, I wouldn't be surprised if Beyond Meat has a crazy high Net Promoter Score and grows into a household name.
Last edited by CommitmentDevice on Thu May 02, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

barnaclebob
Posts: 3687
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by barnaclebob » Thu May 02, 2019 2:33 pm

Its one thing to say a stock will go down or a company will go out of business but another to guess how long will that take. Don't when you short something you also have to put a time period with options trading on it or pay interest for the time period you are shorting?
Last edited by barnaclebob on Thu May 02, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

scophreak
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:17 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by scophreak » Thu May 02, 2019 2:34 pm

lukestuckenhymer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:28 pm
Whether its explicit or not, that's the wave they're riding. "Plant-based," "100% vegan"... Unfortunately, these terms can be misused to persuade the consumer that any product is healthy when it may not be.
I think you're reading too much into these terms. Plant based and 100% vegan are completely accurate descriptions of their products. Conflating these terms with "healthy" is a completely separate issue. One can have a "healthy" omnivore diet just as easily as one could have an "unhealthy" vegetarian or vegan diet. The terms are NOT synonymous.

To keep this relevant, I'll repeat my prior point: I think the main hook of these companies is the "green" aspect. If they are able to achieve a similar taste/texture/etc to meat-based burgers (and sausages, which is another of their product lines) while achieving similar nutrition information then the "green" credentials can be added value.

jbranx
Moderator
Posts: 1425
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:57 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by jbranx » Thu May 02, 2019 2:42 pm

My discount broker offered me a few shares, which I got at $25. They are now up 147% but I can't sell for 15 days to avoid the flipping rule. I've tried the Beyond Meat burgers several times and find them no better than the veggie burgers that have been on the market forever. As soon as I can take my gains, I'm going to head to Burger King and try those "Impossible Burgers." I should be able to afford a lot of them.

IPO's are mostly on my avoid list, but I've done some "play money" on this one and PINS. Looks like some "froth" in the rush to roll all these IPO's out, especially the ones that have never earned a profit. No reason to change my index holdings or AA, but might as well take advantage of some "free" grocery money, provided I can get out by the "flip" date.

onourway
Posts: 1940
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by onourway » Thu May 02, 2019 2:43 pm

lukestuckenhymer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:28 pm
onourway wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:10 pm
I mean because fat, calories are meaningful measures of how healthy a food is for you. :oops:
Please explain. Am I wrong to think high amounts of saturated fat and calories are bad for you?
I eat burgers on occasion, but the point I was trying to make is that buying an expensive plant-based burger that isn't any better for you isn't something I would be motivated to do.
scophreak wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:16 pm
Perhaps someone can correct me, but I haven't personally seen the portrayals of these as "healthy". In fact I've seen quite the opposite with many sources suggesting utilizing these "burgers" as an occasional rather than everyday item.
Whether it's explicit or not, that's the wave they're riding. "Plant-based," "100% vegan"... Unfortunately, these terms can be misused to persuade the consumer that any product is healthy when it may not be.
Nope. Calories (and to a lesser extent, fat) have nothing to do with whether a food is healthy or not for you. One of my staples as a vegetarian is nuts and dried fruit trail mix with close to 200 calories and 10-15g fat per 1/4 cup serving. There is nothing unhealthy about that unless I eat pounds of it daily (in which case, I'd simply gain weight).

I agree that you are reading too much into these labels. It's simply the truth that they are plant based and vegan.

Topic Author
surfstar
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by surfstar » Thu May 02, 2019 2:56 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:20 pm
surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:42 am
TropikThunder wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:35 am
surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am
...but this seems like a good candidate to short.
Based on what?
IPO craze for a non-profitable company. I imagine it will dip soon - long term, who knows? It may get bought by Amazon or something.

This is all just a "feeling" - which is why I'd never act on it, unlike some market timers / "traders" that post on here :mrgreen:
Do you know any of their fundamentals or are you literally just basing this off of the huge gain today? Very easily could've been priced in at a very low valuation because they are unprofitable, shot up from bargain hunters and activists alike, and still be a relatively low valuation.

GE could double tomorrow and still be well below its 5 year high. You can't just look at absolute moves and say if something is fairly valued.
I read a couple articles yesterday, assumed the authors did their research way more than me, and it seems to be filling a craze phase right now and not with underlying fundamentals.


I've yet to try either the Beyond or Impossible - although I plan to at some point. Burgers / fast food have become a rare thing for us, and it is hard to beat the value:taste of In-n-Out on our road trips.

The potential viability for this to replace a significant portion of ground beef and similar meats would be very beneficial for environmental impacts and that gives me hope. Personally I love the taste of meat and cheese more than my desire to limit my personal impact, so if you can provide a product that replicates the taste, lessons impact, and is only a little bit more costly, I would purchase it.

aristotelian
Posts: 5791
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by aristotelian » Thu May 02, 2019 2:57 pm

jbranx wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:42 pm
My discount broker offered me a few shares, which I got at $25. They are now up 147% but I can't sell for 15 days to avoid the flipping rule. I've tried the Beyond Meat burgers several times and find them no better than the veggie burgers that have been on the market forever. As soon as I can take my gains, I'm going to head to Burger King and try those "Impossible Burgers." I should be able to afford a lot of them.

IPO's are mostly on my avoid list, but I've done some "play money" on this one and PINS. Looks like some "froth" in the rush to roll all these IPO's out, especially the ones that have never earned a profit. No reason to change my index holdings or AA, but might as well take advantage of some "free" grocery money, provided I can get out by the "flip" date.
I got the Impossible Burger sliders at White Castle. I was very disappointed. They were way too salty and not as juicy as they are supposed to be. If they have an IPO, I would short!

jbranx
Moderator
Posts: 1425
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:57 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by jbranx » Thu May 02, 2019 3:05 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:57 pm
jbranx wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:42 pm
My discount broker offered me a few shares, which I got at $25. They are now up 147% but I can't sell for 15 days to avoid the flipping rule. I've tried the Beyond Meat burgers several times and find them no better than the veggie burgers that have been on the market forever. As soon as I can take my gains, I'm going to head to Burger King and try those "Impossible Burgers." I should be able to afford a lot of them.

IPO's are mostly on my avoid list, but I've done some "play money" on this one and PINS. Looks like some "froth" in the rush to roll all these IPO's out, especially the ones that have never earned a profit. No reason to change my index holdings or AA, but might as well take advantage of some "free" grocery money, provided I can get out by the "flip" date.
I got the Impossible Burger sliders at White Castle. I was very disappointed. They were way too salty and not as juicy as they are supposed to be. If they have an IPO, I would short!
That's a good tip. I'll head over to my White Castle and try a few. Apparently there is already a shortage at the Impossible Burger plant, so BK's roll out will be delayed.

User avatar
Blueskies123
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:18 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by Blueskies123 » Thu May 02, 2019 3:06 pm

CommitmentDevice wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:29 pm
FWIW, I love the Beyond Burger. I feel this with a surprising intensity and find myself recommending it to others often.

It is crave-worthy delicious and the first meat substitute to truly cross the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley of feeling like a real burger.

I don't know how to analyze company valuations and won't be buying/shorting this stock (or any other individual stock, for that matter). However, I wouldn't be surprised if Beyond Meat has a crazy high Net Promoter Score and grows into a household name.
While it does look like meat I was disappointed at the taste and by the way they are very expensive. Two to three times the cost of hamburger. I would like to eat less meat but the taste put me off so I will stick with Turkey burgers. I think the companies working on lab-grown real meat will have a better chance.

User avatar
Cycle
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by Cycle » Thu May 02, 2019 3:09 pm

Let me guess, you also wanted to short netflix when they stopped DVDs
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

barnaclebob
Posts: 3687
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by barnaclebob » Thu May 02, 2019 3:18 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:57 pm
I got the Impossible Burger sliders at White Castle. I was very disappointed. They were way too salty and not as juicy as they are supposed to be. If they have an IPO, I would short!
Wait. Are you describing some sort of new meat replacement white castle burger or normal white castle burgers? I thought white castle phased out meat decades ago. :wink:

GoldenFinch
Posts: 1852
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by GoldenFinch » Thu May 02, 2019 3:26 pm

Burger King also rolled out the Unhappy Meal https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/02/burger- ... meals.html

LOL!

I bet that will do better than the meatless thing.

tesuzuki2002
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:40 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Thu May 02, 2019 3:28 pm

surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am
I mean, I'm all for the meatless meat movement and firmly believe in the technology, etc...

...but this seems like a good candidate to short. If I was into that sort of thing. (I'm not even sure of the mechanics of shorting a stock, thankfully - that way I would have no idea how to even attempt it!)

Instead I'll just place a wild, random claim here, with no money backing it up:

$40 per share within 30 days.
They can't even keep up with their entry level demand for the product?? I see this going completely the other way...

AerialWombat
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:07 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by AerialWombat » Thu May 02, 2019 3:29 pm

As a consumer, I’ve personally found both Beyond and Impossible to be disgustingly unpalatable. If I were so inclined, I’d short the stock in a heartbeat.

But, WWJBD?
“Life doesn’t come with a warranty.” -Michael LeBoeuf

TravelGeek
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by TravelGeek » Thu May 02, 2019 3:51 pm

As a consumer (and former carnivore) I have found the Beyond Burger to be a tasty alternative to most other vegetarian burgers. My other preferred choice is Costco’s Black Bean burger. I have yet to try the Impossible Burger but will likely give it a try at Burger King when stopping somewhere for food on a road trip.

I assume my index funds bought some shares of the company and that is good enough for me. I have no desire to predict their financial future, though, again, as a consumer of their products (the brats are actually my favorites) I hope they are successful.

SovereignInvestor
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:41 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by SovereignInvestor » Thu May 02, 2019 3:55 pm

There won't be shares available to short for a while probably

JustinR
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:43 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by JustinR » Thu May 02, 2019 4:35 pm

I feel like it's obvious this is the future?

Maybe not this exact company, but...

DonIce
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by DonIce » Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 3:51 pm
I assume my index funds bought some shares of the company and that is good enough for me. I have no desire to predict their financial future, though, again, as a consumer of their products (the brats are actually my favorites) I hope they are successful.
Companies don't make it into index funds until quite a while after their IPOs.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu May 02, 2019 5:03 pm

I can never understand, if someone wants to taste a hamburger, then they should eat a hamburger.

I get the idea behind something like this if the goal is to decrease meat intake for health reasons. But this stuff isn’t all that healthy either. So I am confused.

I can’t imagine this product doing well, but people do things for weird reasons so who knows. I will own the stock when VTI purchases it.

WhiteMaxima
Posts: 1885
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by WhiteMaxima » Thu May 02, 2019 5:07 pm

I buy NGM soy beans from Iowa farms to make my own soy milks and tofu. Who cares about another vegan product company. BTW, I try to eat less meat and eat more more soy based protein.

knowledge
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by knowledge » Thu May 02, 2019 5:11 pm

While there's the green element, there's also the ethical element of not eating meat. But for folks that have gone vegan or vegetarian already, a burger that imitates real meat isn't all that appealing. The goal would be to switch current meat eaters, but they'll need a better product for that to happen - and I don't know if they can get there.

I've had the impossible burger a few times, and I find it pretty tasty, but it's more expensive and seemingly less healthy than a beef burger. If they can flip one of those, then we're talking.

MnD
Posts: 4287
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:41 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by MnD » Thu May 02, 2019 5:12 pm

I would recommend Freakonomics podcast "the future of meat" episode 367 for anyone interested in this subject.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/meat/
Although no doubt there will be huge profits and big losers in this space, I would not short anything on the plant tech side because the overall direction of removing animals as a food production technology is going to be the winner.

Starfish
Posts: 1175
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by Starfish » Thu May 02, 2019 5:16 pm

surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:42 am
TropikThunder wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:35 am
surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am
...but this seems like a good candidate to short.
Based on what?
IPO craze for a non-profitable company.
You mean like tesla several years ago ?
Even if you are right about the financials (and there is no way to tell), these are cult/ideological companies and the market can stay irrational for very long periods of time.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu May 02, 2019 5:26 pm

knowledge wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:11 pm
While there's the green element, there's also the ethical element of not eating meat. But for folks that have gone vegan or vegetarian already, a burger that imitates real meat isn't all that appealing. The goal would be to switch current meat eaters, but they'll need a better product for that to happen - and I don't know if they can get there.

I've had the impossible burger a few times, and I find it pretty tasty, but it's more expensive and seemingly less healthy than a beef burger. If they can flip one of those, then we're talking.
I eat meat 2-3 times a week. I eat it for health reasons. I also eat eggs regularly as well as fish. My goal is healthy and these burgers make no sense to me at all.

That’s the thing, if you want burger shaped patties to taste like beef, tons of chemical garbage needs to be added making the product irrational.

But, at starfish explains, stuff like this has a cult like following and may very well be a profitable investment even if financials and logic aren’t involved.

MittensMoney
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:59 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by MittensMoney » Thu May 02, 2019 5:53 pm

Trading at $72 gives them a $4.5 billion valuation. They had $88m in 2018 sales, so trading about 52x sales. Seems wildly overvalued for a company selling burgers at 25% margins. But, maybe the revenue growth rate will be so astronomically high that the market believes it's a fair price.. Still gambling.

BJJ_GUY
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by BJJ_GUY » Thu May 02, 2019 6:02 pm

Cycle wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 3:09 pm
Let me guess, you also wanted to short netflix when they stopped DVDs
Or when Netflix was still in it's infancy within Enron!

BJJ_GUY
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by BJJ_GUY » Thu May 02, 2019 6:07 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:33 pm
Its one thing to say a stock will go down or a company will go out of business but another to guess how long will that take. Don't when you short something you also have to put a time period with options trading on it or pay interest for the time period you are shorting?
If you replicate a short position synthetically (in other words, if you buy puts), then yes, options have tenor, or a date of expiration.

If you borrow the stock and sell (i.e., short the stock) there is no time limit at initiation. You do get charged a borrow cost, which can be offset to some degree via the short rebate (which is the cash received from the short sale that you place in t-bills). I have no idea what the cost of borrow is for retail investors, but my guess is that it's substantially higher than the short rebate - especially for any stock that isn't among the most liquid/available.

Does that help?

User avatar
baconavocado
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:03 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by baconavocado » Thu May 02, 2019 6:21 pm

I would go long on soybeans, peas, etc. and short beef.

Meat consumption is on a long-term decline, cattle have many negative effects on the environment, and beef has problems for human health.

When I was a kid, we used to eat beef 3-4 times/week. Now, my wife and I might eat it once/month.

onourway
Posts: 1940
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by onourway » Thu May 02, 2019 6:46 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:26 pm

I eat meat 2-3 times a week. I eat it for health reasons. I also eat eggs regularly as well as fish. My goal is healthy and these burgers make no sense to me at all.

That’s the thing, if you want burger shaped patties to taste like beef, tons of chemical garbage needs to be added making the product irrational.
But, at starfish explains, stuff like this has a cult like following and may very well be a profitable investment even if financials and logic aren’t involved.
I think you simply don’t understand the many reasons people would be interested in a product like this. Some people may like the taste of meat, but choose not to eat it for moral, environmental, health, or other reasons. For the rest of the world, there is growing evidence that producing meat on a scale to feed billions has significant repercussions for the world at large. It’s simply not sustainable, long-term, for the entire world’s population to eat as much meat as we are used to in the recent developed world. These products are the first stab at finding another way. A product that is as good as (or in some cases IS) meat, but produced in a more sustainable way that will eventually be less expensive than beef. Remember that these products are in their infancy, faced with all the costs of scaling up production quickly, competing against an extremely mature, established meat industry. You can’t expect that they will be able to under-cut them in prices from day 1.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu May 02, 2019 8:28 pm

onourway wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:46 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:26 pm

I eat meat 2-3 times a week. I eat it for health reasons. I also eat eggs regularly as well as fish. My goal is healthy and these burgers make no sense to me at all.

That’s the thing, if you want burger shaped patties to taste like beef, tons of chemical garbage needs to be added making the product irrational.
But, at starfish explains, stuff like this has a cult like following and may very well be a profitable investment even if financials and logic aren’t involved.
I think you simply don’t understand the many reasons people would be interested in a product like this. Some people may like the taste of meat, but choose not to eat it for moral, environmental, health, or other reasons. For the rest of the world, there is growing evidence that producing meat on a scale to feed billions has significant repercussions for the world at large. It’s simply not sustainable, long-term, for the entire world’s population to eat as much meat as we are used to in the recent developed world. These products are the first stab at finding another way. A product that is as good as (or in some cases IS) meat, but produced in a more sustainable way that will eventually be less expensive than beef. Remember that these products are in their infancy, faced with all the costs of scaling up production quickly, competing against an extremely mature, established meat industry. You can’t expect that they will be able to under-cut them in prices from day 1.
You are correct, I don’t understand some of those reasons and health is not likely one of them. Either way, soy based meat tasting products have been around for years. I remember 20 years ago eating soy burgers and soy suasages. Once I understood how they got their meat flavor I stopped eating them and now willing to have the occasional sausage or burger with no nitrates or preservatives when I have a taste for those things. Again, my goal is health. I do not have any moral or ethical hesitations when consuming other animals.

The people buying these products as you said have moral or ethical reasons for doing it which is a minority of the population. Is that minority going to buy enough of these to make the high share price worth it’s current cost in the long run. Personally I don’t think so, but I have never been good at guessing stock futures.

3funder
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:35 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by 3funder » Thu May 02, 2019 8:33 pm

DesertDiva wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:19 pm
Maybe someday there will be a low-cost Meatless Index fund :twisted:
...and an Avocado Toast Index fund
This is great; I laughed twice.

User avatar
arcticpineapplecorp.
Posts: 4192
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:22 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Thu May 02, 2019 9:06 pm

surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am
I mean, I'm all for the meatless meat movement and firmly believe in the technology, etc...

...but this seems like a good candidate to short. If I was into that sort of thing. (I'm not even sure of the mechanics of shorting a stock, thankfully - that way I would have no idea how to even attempt it!)

Instead I'll just place a wild, random claim here, with no money backing it up:

$40 per share within 30 days.
If it is not $40 per share within 30 days, that will have told you not to pick stocks.

If it is $40 per share within 30 days, what will that tell you?
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

Topic Author
surfstar
Posts: 1651
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by surfstar » Thu May 02, 2019 9:24 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 9:06 pm
surfstar wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:34 am
I mean, I'm all for the meatless meat movement and firmly believe in the technology, etc...

...but this seems like a good candidate to short. If I was into that sort of thing. (I'm not even sure of the mechanics of shorting a stock, thankfully - that way I would have no idea how to even attempt it!)

Instead I'll just place a wild, random claim here, with no money backing it up:

$40 per share within 30 days.
If it is not $40 per share within 30 days, that will have told you not to pick stocks.

If it is $40 per share within 30 days, what will that tell you?
a) Agreed - I flipped the coin and lost
b) I will start my stock newsletter the following day ;)

User avatar
Misenplace
Moderator
Posts: 811
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by Misenplace » Thu May 02, 2019 9:54 pm

This topic is locked because it is a non-actionable trolling topic.
Non-actionable (Trolling) Topics

If readers can't do anything with the content of a topic other than argue about it, it does not belong here. Examples include:
US or world economic, political, tax, health care and climate policies
conspiracy theories of any type
discussions of the crimes, shortcomings or stupidity of other people, whether they be political figures, celebrities, CEOs, Fed chairmen, subprime mortgage borrowers, lottery winners, federal "bailout" recipients, poor people, rich people, etc. Of course, you are welcome to talk about the stupid financial things you have done.
rules#rule-4b

Moderator Misenplace

User avatar
Misenplace
Moderator
Posts: 811
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by Misenplace » Fri May 03, 2019 10:22 am

This thread is now unlocked.

Moderator Misenplace

jbranx
Moderator
Posts: 1425
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:57 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by jbranx » Fri May 03, 2019 11:48 am

Barron's has a fun headline: "Beyond Meat is Now Worth More Than All the Peas in America." Even a few good puns for a sober magazine.
One key paragraph: The company’s valuation makes it worth multiples of all the peas in America. (Beyond Meat makes its meatless products mainly from pea protein.) Perhaps the company can pay for its raw materials with shares. That’s an interesting statistic, but should it be a red flag for investors?
Here's a link for those with a sub; probably behind the paywall unless someone can find it elsewhere:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/beyond ... =hp_DAY_11

JustinR
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:43 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by JustinR » Fri May 03, 2019 12:31 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:28 pm
onourway wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:46 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:26 pm

I eat meat 2-3 times a week. I eat it for health reasons. I also eat eggs regularly as well as fish. My goal is healthy and these burgers make no sense to me at all.

That’s the thing, if you want burger shaped patties to taste like beef, tons of chemical garbage needs to be added making the product irrational.
But, at starfish explains, stuff like this has a cult like following and may very well be a profitable investment even if financials and logic aren’t involved.
I think you simply don’t understand the many reasons people would be interested in a product like this. Some people may like the taste of meat, but choose not to eat it for moral, environmental, health, or other reasons. For the rest of the world, there is growing evidence that producing meat on a scale to feed billions has significant repercussions for the world at large. It’s simply not sustainable, long-term, for the entire world’s population to eat as much meat as we are used to in the recent developed world. These products are the first stab at finding another way. A product that is as good as (or in some cases IS) meat, but produced in a more sustainable way that will eventually be less expensive than beef. Remember that these products are in their infancy, faced with all the costs of scaling up production quickly, competing against an extremely mature, established meat industry. You can’t expect that they will be able to under-cut them in prices from day 1.
You are correct, I don’t understand some of those reasons and health is not likely one of them. Either way, soy based meat tasting products have been around for years. I remember 20 years ago eating soy burgers and soy suasages. Once I understood how they got their meat flavor I stopped eating them and now willing to have the occasional sausage or burger with no nitrates or preservatives when I have a taste for those things. Again, my goal is health. I do not have any moral or ethical hesitations when consuming other animals.

The people buying these products as you said have moral or ethical reasons for doing it which is a minority of the population. Is that minority going to buy enough of these to make the high share price worth it’s current cost in the long run. Personally I don’t think so, but I have never been good at guessing stock futures.
You're uninformed about this topic.

There are a lot of reasons why people are eating less meat now. Health is just one of them. Treatment of animals is just one of them.

The biggest reason is its negative impact on the environment. Raising meat is killing the earth. That's the one you're missing.

Meatless is obviously the future as more people are becoming aware of this fact and actual viable alternatives are becoming available.

WhiteMaxima
Posts: 1885
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Short BYND? (beyond meat, IPO today)

Post by WhiteMaxima » Fri May 03, 2019 12:43 pm

You dont need to short BYND. Just make yourself a meatless dinner at home. Fresh salad, fried tofu burger, miso soup and wheat noodle. Taste delicious and good to right of animals and environment.

Locked