Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

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stocknoob4111
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Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by stocknoob4111 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:29 pm

This is the 2nd time this is happening, not sure how common it is. ALL my mutual funds have Dividends set to re-invest, however occasionally the re-investment will never take place and the money ends up just sitting in my Settlement Account until I notice it a few days later. This happened to me again a few days ago with quarterly dividends payed out by VTIAX on 3/25. Going to call them and ask what on earth is going on.

Anybody experience any such thing? Are there any situations perhaps I am not aware of that will cause this?

crystalbank
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by crystalbank » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:45 pm

Yes, I noticed it too. I thought it was because of me doing a TLH transaction a few weeks ago (hence locked out of the fund), but I noticed it happened today to another fund. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something though...

MindBogler
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by MindBogler » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:56 pm

crystalbank wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:45 pm
Yes, I noticed it too. I thought it was because of me doing a TLH transaction a few weeks ago (hence locked out of the fund), but I noticed it happened today to another fund. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something though...
I've seen it where the account preference is reinvest and the underlying securities are set to cash. I've also changed these and had them revert months later.

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stocknoob4111
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by stocknoob4111 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:52 am

I have set them to reinvest under Account maintenance, holding level options... the options for both Dividends and Cap Gains are reinvest in all securities. All dividends were reinvested except this one fund which is just odd.

I will call and ask for an explanation of why that happened as I have not changed any options in a long time.

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stocknoob4111
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by stocknoob4111 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:59 pm

VG acknowledged that it is due to some system error, they will amend the transaction to be effective as of the dividend date. Customer Service was great!

DB2
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by DB2 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:01 pm

Having joined Vanguard just several months back, I cannot believe the kind of errors they have with their site.

pkjr
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by pkjr » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 pm

DB2 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:01 pm
Having joined Vanguard just several months back, I cannot believe the kind of errors they have with their site.
This is kind of unbelievable.

cavman22
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by cavman22 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:43 pm

My wife’s T IRA is doing this too....

nix4me
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by nix4me » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:21 pm

Terrible site and systems.

sambb
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by sambb » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:36 pm

The continued problems with IT at vanguard indicate a major lack of concern and failure at their leadership level. The complaints have gone on for years, and the system remains unreliable and worrisome - this happens when leadership doesnt really care about it

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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by brokendirtdart » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:48 pm

This happened with my VTIAX distribution on 25 March in my taxable account. So it was only $173, but I didn't notice it until a few days later.

I sent them a message asking what happened, and the reply was they were researching it and to allow 3-5 more days to review and respond. I am on day 2 of that right now.

My dividends are set to reinvest across the board in Vanguard. I did adjust that somewhat toward the end of last year for TLH purposes, but all have been at reinvest for 3ish months now.

I've been with Vanguard for 20 years now, and other than not handling a cost basis properly in my Roth when I converted from PONDX to PIMIX(PIMCO Income), this is the first "issue" I have had with them.

DB2
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by DB2 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:04 pm

pkjr wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 pm
DB2 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:01 pm
Having joined Vanguard just several months back, I cannot believe the kind of errors they have with their site.
This is kind of unbelievable.
I had issues where the correct balance was not showing up (happened on multiple occasions) although if I logged out and logged back in it could show. Sometimes it took 2-3 times. They were supposed to look into it, but never heard anything back.

I sometimes wonder if Vanguard's site issues are a result of not spending enough on their IT. In other words, they take shortcuts to keep fund fees so low.

mpsz
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by mpsz » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:11 pm

I've got 4 funds at Vanguard and it seems to happen randomly to one fund every quarter, I've noticed this for the last 3 quarters or so. Reinvest on across the board.

This time, it was REIT Index for me. I did sell REIT and I believe Int'l a few weeks ago to rebalance, only REIT had an issue.

Really concerning when you consider this along with the other IT issues. I don't like "randomness" in a brokerage.

mariezzz
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by mariezzz » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:20 pm

Is this only occurring in brokerage accounts?

erictiger
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by erictiger » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:29 pm

I have never really paid attention to the dividends. I reinvest for some funds but not all. Will Vanguard eventually fix the issue or only fix this if we ask?

Trader Joe
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by Trader Joe » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:29 pm

Having seen this thread topic I just checked my funds. Yes, Vanguard did change one of my funds from reinvest without my authorization or approval. I did not do this.

Everyone with Vanguard funds should check every one of their fund for this issue.

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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by topper1296 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:41 pm

Add me as another that had an issue. I had to call customer service after the ST bond index did not reinvest even though it was set to reinvest.

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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by abuss368 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:47 pm

Is this related to brokerage accounts only?
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EthanAllen
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by EthanAllen » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:48 pm

Any chance this also affects Vanguard ETFs at other brokerage accounts? I noticed earlier today that all of my VTI in my Merrill Edge account generated cash dividends for the first time this week. I had made a note to look into this over the weekend and just ran across this thread. Is it possible that whatever is causing the vanguard recordkeeping issues is also affecting its ETFs?

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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by brokendirtdart » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:27 am

brokendirtdart wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:48 pm
This happened with my VTIAX distribution on 25 March in my taxable account. So it was only $173, but I didn't notice it until a few days later.

I sent them a message asking what happened, and the reply was they were researching it and to allow 3-5 more days to review and respond. I am on day 2 of that right now.

My dividends are set to reinvest across the board in Vanguard. I did adjust that somewhat toward the end of last year for TLH purposes, but all have been at reinvest for 3ish months now.

I've been with Vanguard for 20 years now, and other than not handling a cost basis properly in my Roth when I converted from PONDX to PIMIX(PIMCO Income), this is the first "issue" I have had with them.
As an update to my inquiry with Vanguard. Yesterday I received a message saying my request was complete.

Sure enough, they reinvested my VTIAX distribution as I requested in my email. While the transaction did occur almost two weeks after it should have, they fixed it and used the appropriate historical price.

All fixed.

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Harry Livermore
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by Harry Livermore » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:41 am

Is everyone who is having the issue investing through Vanguard Brokerage? I'm just old enough where everything I have is the traditional Vanguard retail open-end mutual funds. When they offered the "enhancement" of moving to the brokerage model a few years ago, I declined.
I helped my college kid set up an IRA, and was surprised to find that all new accounts (as far as I can tell) are brokerage only.
Somewhat off-topic, apologies, just looking for a data point, as I have never had this issue in 30 years.
Cheers

A440
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Vanguard system glitch?

Post by A440 » Thu May 02, 2019 4:54 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Last month my dividend for one of my Vanguard Brokerage accounts went to the wrong account. My elections are for it to go to my bank, which it has done correctly every month. Due to a Vanguard system glitch, the dividends were sent to my settlement account.
Not a problem, except for when I was reconciling my checking account and discovered the missing deposit didn't match up with my records. Fortunately, I found where the dividend went and that was that.

I'm just curious if this was an isolated event or if anyone else experienced this? I let Vanguard know and they are the ones that described it as a "system" glitch.

Technology is great...until it isn't. :happy
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mpsz
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Re: Vanguard system glitch?

Post by mpsz » Thu May 02, 2019 7:00 pm

A few people, myself included, had dividends last month that did not get invested when reinvestment was turned on. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=277529

I wonder if this is the same issue.

DB2
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Re: Vanguard system glitch?

Post by DB2 » Thu May 02, 2019 7:37 pm

Vanguard having a glitch in their system? Never. :wink:

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Re: Vanguard system glitch?

Post by jcar » Thu May 02, 2019 9:22 pm

Interesting, when I reviewed this morning my dividends and distributions for 2019 ytd vs, ytd 2018 it was considerably less, about 10%. When I reviewed each individual holding for the same period every holding had grown in income thus far in 2019. The totals make no sense on Vanguard.com. I'm awaiting a callback from my advisor. Twenty years and never noticed a discrepancy until today.

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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by LadyGeek » Thu May 02, 2019 10:22 pm

I merged A440's thread into the on-going discussion. The combined thread is now in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (general discussion).
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by FIREchief » Thu May 02, 2019 10:51 pm

DB2 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:04 pm
I sometimes wonder if Vanguard's site issues are a result of not spending enough on their IT. In other words, they take shortcuts to keep fund fees so low.
Do the expenses of managing their funds have anything to do with the expenses of their brokerage infrastructure? I thought they were totally separate? Was I mistaken? :confused
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by unclescrooge » Fri May 03, 2019 1:02 am

pkjr wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 pm
DB2 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:01 pm
Having joined Vanguard just several months back, I cannot believe the kind of errors they have with their site.
This is kind of unbelievable.
If you pay peanuts, you end up with monkeys. Why is this unbelievable?

Thesaints
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by Thesaints » Fri May 03, 2019 1:39 am

So happy I never “upgraded” my account !

inbox788
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by inbox788 » Fri May 03, 2019 4:53 am

DB2 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:04 pm
I sometimes wonder if Vanguard's site issues are a result of not spending enough on their IT. In other words, they take shortcuts to keep fund fees so low.
Stuff like this happens all the time. Spending more on IT isn't necessarily going to prevent these mishaps. It might increase them if they expand their IT goals. It's a balance between providing more up to date technology and wasting a lot of money on IT projects that need multiple iterations to get going (on the bleeding edge). If you need that to stay competitive, you've got no choice (Uber, Tesla, Waymo, etc.). Apple sits back and let's other get cut a bit learning from their experience, but can't wait too long ( leading/cutting edge; https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/30/apple-qu ... ettlement/ ). I don't think Vanguard has much to lose being on the trailing edge and adopting the best of the tried and true technology. Index investing isn't high frequency trading. IMO, the best they can do is step up their customer service while continuing to work on diligently in the back end.

ruhigste
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by ruhigste » Fri May 03, 2019 6:13 am

I noticed that my bond fund dividend did not automatically re-invest yesterday. I decided to handle the situation manually, because this account is a 3-fund account, and I may sometime decide to re-invest the bond dividends into the total stock or the international stock fund instead of the bond fund. Re-balancing through dividend allocation.

DB2
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by DB2 » Fri May 03, 2019 8:49 am

inbox788 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:53 am
IMO, the best they can do is step up their customer service while continuing to work on diligently in the back end.
Which is going to take dollars to do both. If not, then why haven't they done it? Incompetence? I suppose that is possible.

In all reality, high trading site or not, one gets the feel of a very antiquated Web site with Vanguard. It has a bit of late 1990s feel to it. When I go over to Fidelity, it's a night and day better user experience, feels very modern, and I've never experienced the data issues like I have with Vanguard. I don't read of many reports of dividends not being reinvested with Fidelity either. Some of Vanguard's issues are inexcusable and I am always puzzled by their defenders. This is not normal for a financial institution.

Corgitodd
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by Corgitodd » Fri May 03, 2019 8:54 am

When I transitioned my 20 year old Vanguard account to Vanguard Brokerage Services, it automatically reset my cash option to reinvest and I had to manually go back and change them to my preferences.

inbox788
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by inbox788 » Fri May 03, 2019 11:34 am

DB2 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:49 am
Which is going to take dollars to do both. If not, then why haven't they done it? Incompetence? I suppose that is possible.

In all reality, high trading site or not, one gets the feel of a very antiquated Web site with Vanguard. It has a bit of late 1990s feel to it. When I go over to Fidelity, it's a night and day better user experience, feels very modern, and I've never experienced the data issues like I have with Vanguard. I don't read of many reports of dividends not being reinvested with Fidelity either. Some of Vanguard's issues are inexcusable and I am always puzzled by their defenders. This is not normal for a financial institution.
I'm sure there's plenty of incompetence to go around, but throwing money around doesn't solve a problem. I've heard complaints from many companies, so I don't know if it's any better or worse at Vanguard, but if they're losing track of dividends, the problem isn't going to be helped by making their website feel more modern. I'm guessing the reason Fidelity is getting fewer complaints about losing dividends is not that they lose track of less, but that their customer service people are doing a better job of managing and resolving customer complaints.

That reminds me, I should be doing more to cancel my Citibank accounts. They're constantly modernizing their website, but instead of getting better, they're causing problems breaking things that used to work fine. Latest of a string of issues is having me reset my password for no reason, and it's not security, because they let me use my old password. I think they're using hashes, which is a good thing, but then losing them.

You can shop at Saks, Macys, Walmart or Costco. I prefer the Costco cost and service level. Others prefer a higher service level, but expect to pay higher prices.

I do draw the line at having to go back to the USPS days of sending letters back and forth for everyday tasks. I forgot what transaction I was starting that was asking me to do that, but I quickly canceled it.

Is there a trustworthy comparison of these types of services and issues? How many customers do Fidelity and Vanguard and other serve? Interpreting numbers like having 3 times the complaints depends on whether they're similar sized or one serves 10 times the number of customers.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/rating ... gment/3950

175 Vanguard Consumer Reviews and Complaints
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automat ... guard.html
509 Fidelity Investments Consumer Reviews and Complaints
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/fidelity.html

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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by DB2 » Fri May 03, 2019 12:38 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:34 am
DB2 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:49 am
Which is going to take dollars to do both. If not, then why haven't they done it? Incompetence? I suppose that is possible.

In all reality, high trading site or not, one gets the feel of a very antiquated Web site with Vanguard. It has a bit of late 1990s feel to it. When I go over to Fidelity, it's a night and day better user experience, feels very modern, and I've never experienced the data issues like I have with Vanguard. I don't read of many reports of dividends not being reinvested with Fidelity either. Some of Vanguard's issues are inexcusable and I am always puzzled by their defenders. This is not normal for a financial institution.
I'm sure there's plenty of incompetence to go around, but throwing money around doesn't solve a problem.
It wouldn't necessarily just be "throwing" money around. I get the feeling with Vanguard that some infrastructure upgrades are required which would cost more money. I mean their site crashed for a good part of the day on a heavy day of trading last fall. I've seen wrong balances in my account on several occasions (which they still have not gotten back to me on). People not getting dividends reinvested. The list goes on. It's time for Vanguard to realize it's 2019 and get these problems resolved (which again, will probably require some additional spending).

inbox788
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by inbox788 » Fri May 03, 2019 1:23 pm

DB2 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:38 pm
It wouldn't necessarily just be "throwing" money around. I get the feeling with Vanguard that some infrastructure upgrades are required which would cost more money. I mean their site crashed for a good part of the day on a heavy day of trading last fall. I've seen wrong balances in my account on several occasions (which they still have not gotten back to me on). People not getting dividends reinvested. The list goes on. It's time for Vanguard to realize it's 2019 and get these problems resolved (which again, will probably require some additional spending).
Is this the outage? Are there others like it? These aren't supposed to happen, but with their luck, it wasn't related to the heavy volume, and while they implement a more complex robust solution to heavy volume, something doesn't work right the next time there is heavy volume caused by the upgrade.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vang ... SKCN1ML092

I fully expect they're spending additional effort looking into what happened and to to mitigate future outages. One such proposal is likely AWS, and one day, AWS will go down and we'll see Netflix, Apple, and everyone else on there go down with it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/22/apple-s ... month.html
https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/netflix/

https://www.contino.io/insights/whos-using-aws
https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-top-1 ... -customers

https://virtualizationreview.com/articl ... utage.aspx
https://www.vox.com/2017/3/2/14792636/a ... ct-command

The solution to the missing dividends and wrong account balances isn't so much technological as business process. They should institute a dispute process similar to what credit card charges to, which place a temporary correction in place to restore investor confidence. They could even lock the value so it's not accessible, but at least having it there gives the appearance that you still have some control. And of course, they need to investigate and correct the problem in a timely manner. In today's instant world, 3 days is often too long and 30 days an eternity, but these problems take time to resolve. I'm guessing it not one big problem they have to solve, but different smaller problems, and they're addressing them one by one as they come up.

Anyway, do you want to help? Do you have Java, DB2, Mainframe, and/or Cobol experience?
Java Developer - Marketing Services
Vanguard 812 reviews
Malvern, PA 19355
DB2 and Mainframe experience is a plus. Vanguard is seeking a Java Developer to join our Marketing Enablement team. The Marketing Enablement team provides a platform to deliver personalization capabilities using IBM suite of tools....
https://www.indeed.com/q-Mainframe-Deve ... -jobs.html
https://lensa.com/senior-developer--cob ... escription

This last listing implies they've got some legacy lockin issues to deal with. https://www.kiuwan.com/blog/security-bu ... cobol-rpg/

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topper1296
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by topper1296 » Fri May 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Thesaints wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 1:39 am
So happy I never “upgraded” my account !
I don't know about anybody else, however I did NOT ask for this and was NOT given a choice to keep my account the way it was.

crystalbank
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Re: Vanguard randomly not reinvesting dividends

Post by crystalbank » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:56 pm

This happened to me again this week. Contacted them a few days ago and they apologized for the error and promised to take care of it. Three days later, I still see no changes and the dividends are still in my Federal Money Market Settlement Fund. I need to call them again tomorrow and follow up, which is a hassle I was hoping to avoid.

As much as I love Vanguard, these kinda errors really make me think twice.

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