Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

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dkturner
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by dkturner »

Doc wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:21 am
dkturner wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:03 am Do “real banks” pay Vanguard money market fund interest rates on their zero balance requirement checking accounts?
No but one Starbuck a week is not enough for me to give up all the other perks and benefits that our bank(s) offers.

(I don't know what you mean by "zero balance requirement checking accounts". If you only need a zero balance, 2.5% of nothing is no Starbucks a week.)
Now, Doc, you know better than that. It’s not unusual for people to draw down their checking account balances from time to time, even if they normally maintain sizeable balances. We keep a relatively high balance, but it’s going way down next week when we pay federal and state taxes. Sometime in the next three months we’ll terminate our Advantage Account and move the balance to our newly established Fidelity brokerage account.
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Doc
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

dkturner wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:31 pm Now, Doc, you know better than that. It’s not unusual for people to draw down their checking account balances from time to time, even if they normally maintain sizeable balances. We keep a relatively high balance, but it’s going way down next week when we pay federal and state taxes.
No I don't know that. It's not what we do. Mrs. Doc is uncomfortable if either of our checking account balances becomes less than (some non trivial amount) because she wants to have access to cash in case I get in a car accident and wind up in the hospital.

As far as infrequent high outflows are concerned like quarterly taxes, these are known well in advanced and it is easy to put money into the checking account a day or two before the expenditure. For unexpected large expenses I can have say $100k or more transferred into our checking account by start of business next business day or as short as one hour from now if I am willing to pay the $10 wire fee. That's called a margin account. At Schwab the minimum balance for a margin account is all of $2000 market value of your securities. I would suggest that 99% of Bogleheads have security balances greater than that amount.

There is no need to have a checking account coupled with your investment account. And unless you are talking about cash balances in excess of tens of thousand of dollars the amount "lost" in short term interest is inconsequential.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
essbeer
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by essbeer »

Doc wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:21 am
dkturner wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:03 am Do “real banks” pay Vanguard money market fund interest rates on their zero balance requirement checking accounts?
No but one Starbuck a week is not enough for me to give up all the other perks and benefits that our bank(s) offers.

(I don't know what you mean by "zero balance requirement checking accounts". If you only need a zero balance, 2.5% of nothing is no Starbucks a week.)
I don't need to keep money in my bank account to get the "perks" of a bank. I've got a totally free bank account at Wells Fargo, get all the perks I need but don't need to keep any money in that account. I'm not going to throw away several hundred dollars a year by keeping my cash there.
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Doc
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

essbeer wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:13 pm I'm not going to throw away several hundred dollars a year by keeping my cash there.
Then don't keep your cash there. What is several hundred dollars a year. Say several is a $300 loss. At 2.5% that's a balance of some $12000. I wouldn't keep $12000 in my checking account either. But a $1000 balance is only going to cost me $25 a year or a Starbucks every other month.

Now if you cash outlays are $12000 a week then yes you need to keep more money in your checking account. But if your cash outlays are $12000 a week what difference does another few hundred dollars a year in lost interest mean to you. Not a whole lot.
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essbeer
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by essbeer »

Doc wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:37 pm
essbeer wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:13 pm I'm not going to throw away several hundred dollars a year by keeping my cash there.
Then don't keep your cash there. What is several hundred dollars a year. Say several is a $300 loss. At 2.5% that's a balance of some $12000. I wouldn't keep $12000 in my checking account either. But a $1000 balance is only going to cost me $25 a year or a Starbucks every other month.

Now if you cash outlays are $12000 a week then yes you need to keep more money in your checking account. But if your cash outlays are $12000 a week what difference does another few hundred dollars a year in lost interest mean to you. Not a whole lot.
12K is probably 2 months for me, sometimes 3. But I keep at least a quarters worth of cash in my account because expenses are lumpy. I don't bother with the bank checking account precisely because I don't want to be constantly monitoring if there is enough cash to cover expenses. I can't imagine keeping just $1000, I can't even pay my credit card with that. I keep a sizable amount of cash on hand to save time, and I keep that cash in a money market to save money.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by smackboy1 »

Just got off the line with my Flagship Select rep. After decades with Vanguard I am disappointed that they continue to under deliver in the customer service department. The website is atrocious. I can't count the number of times I've called them and the rep is either clueless or the answer is that Vanguard is unable to do it (when other brokerages can).

I understand Advantage might not have been profitable, but why not give the customers (the supposed "owners" of the company) the choice of just paying for the banking services? On the personal side have several Vanguard Advantage accounts linked to automatic bill payment and direct withdrawal for account payment. It's going to be a major undertaking to unravel and recreate. We're expected to de-evolve to the 20th century and set up a linked bank account. Banks won't be able to pull funds from Vanguard. Vanguard has to originate the transfer via ACH (2-3 days) or wire (hours). Just a huge PITA. No overdraft protection. Not to mention all the lost interest.

On the professional side I've recommended Vanguard to friends, family, and clients - some of HNW. It's not Morgan Stanley but I've convinced them that putting up with bare bones services in return for low costs and higher ROI is worthwhile. It's also the simplicity and efficiency of having investing and banking in a single institution - but no more.

If you're as annoyed as I am, please contact Vanguard and let them know.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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Doc
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

essbeer wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:17 pm I don't bother with the bank checking account precisely because I don't want to be constantly monitoring if there is enough cash to cover expenses.
There is accounting software that will do the monitoring for you. Whenever I boot my computer I get a small screen from billminder.exe that informs me of bills due in the near future and also if I will go outside of the balance limits I have set for our main checking account in the next 30 days. If I see something that warrants attention I can load the main program and get a balance projection for as long as the next twelve months and as short as 30 days. The latter will tell me the minimum balance in that account and the date it will occur. Lumps are included in this projection.

The software is a whole lot cheaper than the lost earnings on a $12000 balance.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by jdb »

Doc wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:23 am
essbeer wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:17 pm I don't bother with the bank checking account precisely because I don't want to be constantly monitoring if there is enough cash to cover expenses.
There is accounting software that will do the monitoring for you. Whenever I boot my computer I get a small screen from billminder.exe that informs me of bills due in the near future and also if I will go outside of the balance limits I have set for our main checking account in the next 30 days. If I see something that warrants attention I can load the main program and get a balance projection for as long as the next twelve months and as short as 30 days. The latter will tell me the minimum balance in that account and the date it will occur. Lumps are included in this projection.

The software is a whole lot cheaper than the lost earnings on a $12000 balance.
Even easier, at least with BofA, I have set a minimum account balance monitor online, if checking account balance falls below that level I receive mobile notice from bank. Makes life easier. Good luck.
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Doc
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

jdb wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:34 pm Even easier, at least with BofA, I have set a minimum account balance monitor online, if checking account balance falls below that level I receive mobile notice from bank. Makes life easier.
That's a good idea. The way I do it takes more work but you get a projected balance. But to do that you need to have knowledge of when future outflows are expected. Estimating those future outflows is not that hard. I know what my estimated tax payments are for the next 12 months. And I have a good idea of my RE tax and insurance payments. Utilities based on seasonal variations is also knowable. Averages for routine expenses like food and gasoline are also easy to estimate. Putting all this together in say a spreadsheet would be an arduous task. But there is inexpensive software available that will do the hard work for you. It is especially easy if that is the same software you are using to track your investments. :D
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essbeer
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by essbeer »

Doc wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:23 am
essbeer wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:17 pm I don't bother with the bank checking account precisely because I don't want to be constantly monitoring if there is enough cash to cover expenses.
There is accounting software that will do the monitoring for you. Whenever I boot my computer I get a small screen from billminder.exe that informs me of bills due in the near future and also if I will go outside of the balance limits I have set for our main checking account in the next 30 days. If I see something that warrants attention I can load the main program and get a balance projection for as long as the next twelve months and as short as 30 days. The latter will tell me the minimum balance in that account and the date it will occur. Lumps are included in this projection.

The software is a whole lot cheaper than the lost earnings on a $12000 balance.
The loss is minimal (right now the 7 day yield on VMMXX is 2.46% and 30-day on VBTLX is 2.97%.) It's just another part of my bond allocation to me. Plus with a money market I won't need to keep track of tiny capital losses and gains. Also my wife doesn't have to clear every single check she writes with me. Simplifies my life.

At any rate, even if I was keeping minimal balances, and juggling my inflows and outflows, I still don't see why I wouldn't use a money market fund. It's just a better rate. UBS checking account MM sweep is paying about 2% right now. It's just like any other checking account you'd have.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

essbeer wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:04 pm At any rate, even if I was keeping minimal balances, and juggling my inflows and outflows, I still don't see why I wouldn't use a money market fund. It's just a better rate. UBS checking account MM sweep is paying about 2% right now. It's just like any other checking account you'd have.
If you have a checking account at UBS that is paying 2% on it's linked MM sweep account that's great. I can't find their rates on their website. Maybe you have to be a client.

On the other hand "just like any other checking account you'd have" like maybe USB (not UBS) the rate on the sweep account for their platinum checking is 0.01%. https://www.usbank.com/bank-accounts/ch ... rates.html If you utilize their "package Money Market Savings" with $500k you can get the rate all the way up to 0.07% https://www.usbank.com/savings/todays-s ... ings-rates

Please give us an alternative to the discontinued Vanguard Advantage Account at some retail bank that will solve our dilemma without causing the potential fraud type problems that might occur with a checking account linked to our main investment assets. Many of us would be interested in that.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Artsdoctor »

Doc wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:31 pm
essbeer wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:04 pm At any rate, even if I was keeping minimal balances, and juggling my inflows and outflows, I still don't see why I wouldn't use a money market fund. It's just a better rate. UBS checking account MM sweep is paying about 2% right now. It's just like any other checking account you'd have.
If you have a checking account at UBS that is paying 2% on it's linked MM sweep account that's great. I can't find their rates on their website. Maybe you have to be a client.

On the other hand "just like any other checking account you'd have" like maybe USB (not UBS) the rate on the sweep account for their platinum checking is 0.01%. https://www.usbank.com/bank-accounts/ch ... rates.html If you utilize their "package Money Market Savings" with $500k you can get the rate all the way up to 0.07% https://www.usbank.com/savings/todays-s ... ings-rates

Please give us an alternative to the discontinued Vanguard Advantage Account at some retail bank that will solve our dilemma without causing the potential fraud type problems that might occur with a checking account linked to our main investment assets. Many of us would be interested in that.
I really spent a reasonable amount of time looking at this. Actually, it was an unreasonable amount of time and I resented it.

I never found a "bank account" which would provide the interest that I wanted. There are too many transactions that I manage throughout any given month and the balance has to kept intermittently high so those < 0.10% interest-bearing accounts irk me to no end.

I went with Fidelity in the end, and I'm using a brokerage account for bills. It's a stand alone account and although I have a California money-market fund linked to it, there are no other investments which would ever be in jeopardy. So far, I've had no problem pushing and pulling, and transfers from Vanguard are available for withdrawal very quickly at Fidelity so I don't think there will be problems.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by jdb »

Artsdoctor wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:16 pm
Doc wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:31 pm
essbeer wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:04 pm At any rate, even if I was keeping minimal balances, and juggling my inflows and outflows, I still don't see why I wouldn't use a money market fund. It's just a better rate. UBS checking account MM sweep is paying about 2% right now. It's just like any other checking account you'd have.
If you have a checking account at UBS that is paying 2% on it's linked MM sweep account that's great. I can't find their rates on their website. Maybe you have to be a client.

On the other hand "just like any other checking account you'd have" like maybe USB (not UBS) the rate on the sweep account for their platinum checking is 0.01%. https://www.usbank.com/bank-accounts/ch ... rates.html If you utilize their "package Money Market Savings" with $500k you can get the rate all the way up to 0.07% https://www.usbank.com/savings/todays-s ... ings-rates

Please give us an alternative to the discontinued Vanguard Advantage Account at some retail bank that will solve our dilemma without causing the potential fraud type problems that might occur with a checking account linked to our main investment assets. Many of us would be interested in that.
I really spent a reasonable amount of time looking at this. Actually, it was an unreasonable amount of time and I resented it.

I never found a "bank account" which would provide the interest that I wanted. There are too many transactions that I manage throughout any given month and the balance has to kept intermittently high so those < 0.10% interest-bearing accounts irk me to no end.

I went with Fidelity in the end, and I'm using a brokerage account for bills. It's a stand alone account and although I have a California money-market fund linked to it, there are no other investments which would ever be in jeopardy. So far, I've had no problem pushing and pulling, and transfers from Vanguard are available for withdrawal very quickly at Fidelity so I don't think there will be problems.
The posters doth protest too much, methinks. As to foregone interest from bank checking accounts. I maintain a $10K average balance in my BofA account. At current prime money market rates costs me less than $300 annually in foregone interest. I am willing to pay that price for peace of mind not having my much larger Vanguard MMF account information circulating on checks. Plus have ATM from national bank with locations in every large city and discounted safe deposit box and top notch bill pay and mobile banking network. But have not seen any free ballpoint pens recently. Good luck
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Artsdoctor
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Artsdoctor »

^ Between the settlement fund and the linked money market fund to the Vanguard account, I earned a lot more interest last year than $300. Everyone's financial situation is different. However, you're right that it's not going to make or break anyone.

On a more fundamental level, it's probably more about the feeling of being advantage of. If you're making 0.05% on an interest-bearing account and the concept of that does not bother you, than by all means go for it.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by dbr »

Artsdoctor wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:03 pm ^ Between the settlement fund and the linked money market fund to the Vanguard account, I earned a lot more interest last year than $300. Everyone's financial situation is different. However, you're right that it's not going to make or break anyone.

On a more fundamental level, it's probably more about the feeling of being advantage of. If you're making 0.05% on an interest-bearing account and the concept of that does not bother you, than by all means go for it.
In a reasonable perspective on things the dollars involved for me are utterly invisible, so indeed the concept does not bother me. That said I do not in fact leave amounts of cash lying around in places bearing very low interest because it is easy not to do that. I don't worry about being taken advantage of. There are lots of aspects of life where I am being taken advantage of on a much bigger scale than that. That is how life is.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Artsdoctor »

^ How true! Everyone has to come up with their own arbitrary line on how much they are comfortable with that concept.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

tipswatcher wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:33 pm I admit to being very angry and baffled at learning that Vanguard was discontinuing the Advantage accounts, which my wife and I have been using for years. All we really needed was the ability to do check-writing and basic bill-paying out of the Treasury Money Market account, along with a connection to Treasury Direct for incoming and outgoing investments. My biggest problem has been the very poor communication by Vanguard, including conflicting information about check-writing. Our rep didn't help much, although he clarified that check-writing would continue, under a different form. He stated that there could no longer be a connection to Treasury Direct (not sure if that is true), or any bill-paying services.

So, while the majority of our assets are at Vanguard, my wife has her retirement account at Fidelity and they have been courting us for new investments. I called Fidelity and got the details on the Cash Management Account. I set it up, moving about half of our cash position out of Vanguard and creating a connection between the two accounts. And ... I like it. Bill-paying is extremely easy to set up and use. Checks were delivered this week. The Treasury Direct connection was very easy to set up.

Fidelity uses an FDIC-insured fund as the "sweep account," paying 0.3% I think, but it can be backed up with the Fidelity Treasury Money Market (FZFXX), a low-risk fund paying about 2.06%, about 30 basis points less than Vanguard's Treasury money market. OK, I can live with that, because I have the two funds connected. At times I need to bolster the Fidelity CMA, I can move money there from Vanguard.

Fidelity's CMA debit card (for ATMs) will allow me to nearly deplete my current cash account at Wells Fargo, paying probably 0.05%, so I get an extra benefit there. Plus, I can use it overseas as an ATM card with only a 1% transaction fee, no other added or fixed charges.

So I am happy that Vanguard drove me to seek out this service from Fidelity. It's a strike against Vanguard, mainly for failing to understand the needs of its customers, along with very poor communication. But I am staying with Vanguard, of course, and I admire the company. Let's not have a strike two.
It should be possible to use the Vanguard Direct Deposit service to establish a redemption-only link on TreasuryDirect. I have already done it and successfully made two transfers to Vanguard for EE Savings Bond redemptions.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by friar1610 »

This may have been posted somewhere in the 12 pages of posts above but I have not read every post/page.

I'm in VG Advantage although I don't use any of the cash management account features. For some reason I was put into it years ago when I asked for check writing and an ATM debit card for my taxable VG account. When the news of the disestablishment of Advantage came out I had understood:
- that check writing on the settlement account would go away
- that if I wanted check writing I would have to open a Prime MM account within my to-be-established standard (non-Advantage) brokerage account
- that the Prime MM checks would be limited to $250 and above
- and, of course, the debit card will go away

Decided I could live without the debit card so I opened a Prime MM Fund account to have it ready for the big switch over.

Today I was talking to the Flagship rep and I was told:
- check writing won't actually go away on the settlement account (Fed MM) although it will have to be reestablished (with a new checkbook/new checks) once the brokerage account ceases to be an Advantage account and takes on its new life as a standard brokerage account.
- there will NOT be a $250 minimum on checks drawn on it
- and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.

Don't know if anyone knows about this or cares but it makes life without Advantage a bit less onerous for me.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by sport »

friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm - and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.
This is very interesting. I use these checks for QCDs. After I verify this is the case, I will ask Vanguard for a new checkbook that does not state the $250 minimum on each check.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by drzzzzz »

sport wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm - and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.
This is very interesting. I use these checks for QCDs. After I verify this is the case, I will ask Vanguard for a new checkbook that does not state the $250 minimum on each check.
Let us know what you find out since I was planning to transfer the spouse's RMD to Fidelity since they allow you to write any size check on their money market account which I plan to use for QCD
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by bayview »

drzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:40 pm
sport wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm - and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.
This is very interesting. I use these checks for QCDs. After I verify this is the case, I will ask Vanguard for a new checkbook that does not state the $250 minimum on each check.
Let us know what you find out since I was planning to transfer the spouse's RMD to Fidelity since they allow you to write any size check on their money market account which I plan to use for QCD
+1

I will have to take over my mother’s financial affairs and have been pondering the best set-up.

If these things happen, I’ll be fine with Vanguard.

lol, even when they do things right, they still have the worst marketing and CS functions ever.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by 8foot7 »

friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm 3
- there will NOT be a $250 minimum on checks drawn on it
- and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.

Can you set up an ACH pull based on that checkwriting information? Not a deposit, but if I wanted to pay my Amex could I put in the routing and account number of the Prime MM check and would it go through?

It's pretty useless for me if literally the only thing I can do is write checks, but if I can at least pay bills electronically by pulling from each biller's website that might be something interesting.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by dkturner »

8foot7 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:46 am
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm 3
- there will NOT be a $250 minimum on checks drawn on it
- and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.

Can you set up an ACH pull based on that checkwriting information? Not a deposit, but if I wanted to pay my Amex could I put in the routing and account number of the Prime MM check and would it go through?

It's pretty useless for me if literally the only thing I can do is write checks, but if I can at least pay bills electronically by pulling from each biller's website that might be something interesting.
FWIW, when I talked with our Flagship rep he indicated that the “party line” with Vanguard management was that Advantage customers should be encouraged to move money from their Vanguard MM account, by ACH, to their local neighborhood bank as needed and take advantage of their bank’s bill pay service when they need to pay a bill. I tried this out by sending an ACH transfer from our MM settlement account at Vanguard, BEFORE 12:00 PM, to our Chase account. The money was in our Chase account the next business day at 7:00 am - and was available for withdrawal that same day. If you try this from another Vanguard MM fund it will take 2 business days before the money gets to your bank account. I’m going to see what happens if I send a transfer request from our settlement account AFTER 12:00 PM.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by 8foot7 »

dkturner wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:15 am
8foot7 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:46 am
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm 3
- there will NOT be a $250 minimum on checks drawn on it
- and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.

Can you set up an ACH pull based on that checkwriting information? Not a deposit, but if I wanted to pay my Amex could I put in the routing and account number of the Prime MM check and would it go through?

It's pretty useless for me if literally the only thing I can do is write checks, but if I can at least pay bills electronically by pulling from each biller's website that might be something interesting.
FWIW, when I talked with our Flagship rep he indicated that the “party line” with Vanguard management was that Advantage customers should be encouraged to move money from their Vanguard MM account, by ACH, to their local neighborhood bank as needed and take advantage of their bank’s bill pay service when they need to pay a bill. I tried this out by sending an ACH transfer from our MM settlement account at Vanguard, BEFORE 12:00 PM, to our Chase account. The money was in our Chase account the next business day at 7:00 am - and was available for withdrawal that same day. If you try this from another Vanguard MM fund it will take 2 business days before the money gets to your bank account. I’m going to see what happens if I send a transfer request from our settlement account AFTER 12:00 PM.
Thanks. That might work for some people, but it's still 2 more steps (transfer to bank, bill pay with bank) than it takes at Fidelity with a brokerage account (money's already there earning yield, bills automatically get debited), and another 25-30 basis points of yield isn't worth the trouble for me.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by sport »

8foot7 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:46 am
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm 3
- there will NOT be a $250 minimum on checks drawn on it
- and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.

Can you set up an ACH pull based on that checkwriting information? Not a deposit, but if I wanted to pay my Amex could I put in the routing and account number of the Prime MM check and would it go through?
I don't believe you can do that. The Prime MM "checks" are not really checks, they are drafts. Vanguard is not a bank, and uses a bank in the background to process payment of these drafts. My regular bank checks have a nine-digit routing number followed by my account number. My Prime MM "checks" have an eleven-digit routing number followed by another a nine-digit routing number and then my account number. They are not ordinary checks.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by sport »

drzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:40 pm
sport wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm - and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.
This is very interesting. I use these checks for QCDs. After I verify this is the case, I will ask Vanguard for a new checkbook that does not state the $250 minimum on each check.
Let us know what you find out since I was planning to transfer the spouse's RMD to Fidelity since they allow you to write any size check on their money market account which I plan to use for QCD
Vanguard's response to my question is that the $250 minimum still applies. :(
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by PatrickA5 »

drzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:40 pm
sport wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm - and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.
This is very interesting. I use these checks for QCDs. After I verify this is the case, I will ask Vanguard for a new checkbook that does not state the $250 minimum on each check.
Let us know what you find out since I was planning to transfer the spouse's RMD to Fidelity since they allow you to write any size check on their money market account which I plan to use for QCD
I recently closed my Advantage account and added check writing on both Federal Money Market and Prime Money Market. Just got my checks a week ago. Both still have the "not valid if under $250" on them. My Flagship rep said that the $250 minimum still applies. So, I guess it's who you talk to.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

dkturner wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:15 am I tried this out by sending an ACH transfer from our MM settlement account at Vanguard, BEFORE 12:00 PM, to our Chase account. The money was in our Chase account the next business day at 7:00 am - and was available for withdrawal that same day. If you try this from another Vanguard MM fund it will take 2 business days before the money gets to your bank account. I’m going to see what happens if I send a transfer request from our settlement account AFTER 12:00 PM.
Somebody else brought this up (maybe you) and I tested it. The BEFORE 12:00 PM and AFTER 12:00 PM is relevant. I verified it last month. The "exact" time before and after may not be exact.

If you have a margin account it may be different and you can avoid the extra day for a non-settlement fund. At Schwab there is no margin interest with the non-settlement fund.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

PatrickA5 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:07 am
drzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:40 pm
sport wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm - and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.
This is very interesting. I use these checks for QCDs. After I verify this is the case, I will ask Vanguard for a new checkbook that does not state the $250 minimum on each check.
Let us know what you find out since I was planning to transfer the spouse's RMD to Fidelity since they allow you to write any size check on their money market account which I plan to use for QCD
I recently closed my Advantage account and added check writing on both Federal Money Market and Prime Money Market. Just got my checks a week ago. Both still have the "not valid if under $250" on them. My Flagship rep said that the $250 minimum still applies. So, I guess it's who you talk to.
I just sent Vanguard an email asking what the OFFICIAL policy was, on both Vanguard Prime MM and Vanguard Federal MM. I don't think I'll ever need to write a check less than $250, but I'd like to know one way or the other.

Recently I added a bond fund as an alternative redemption fund. So, I don't have to be as careful about the balance in my Vanguard Federal MM fund.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by heartwood »

I've already posted in the Fidelity as a one stop shop thread. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=266538&p=4488715#p4488715

I'm posting here as well since I hope this thread has more folks familiar with how Advantage accounts work.

Here's my post from the other thread.
"I've searched this topic for "MS Money" and for Quicken and didn't find a result.

I've migrated from Vanguard Advantage to Fidelity CMA. I'd like to continue using MS Money to track my accounts. It will take batch downloads in Quicken format.

After searching the Fidelity site for batch downloading of transactions I called their support line and was told they no longer do batch pushes. They only support pulls from a limited set of programs.

Anyone have a work around? Otherwise I may go back to a spreadsheet and only track stuff I need for taxes like medical expenses.

It also seems that Fidelity does not provide online images of bill pay checks.

Both lackings are annoying.
"
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

heartwood wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:39 pm Anyone have a work around?
Don't know about the Fidelity CMA account but "regular" Fidelity accounts download directly to Quicken in the same way as Schwab, Vanguard and both our banks do.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Artsdoctor »

heartwood wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:39 pm I've already posted in the Fidelity as a one stop shop thread. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=266538&p=4488715#p4488715

I'm posting here as well since I hope this thread has more folks familiar with how Advantage accounts work.

Here's my post from the other thread.
"I've searched this topic for "MS Money" and for Quicken and didn't find a result.

I've migrated from Vanguard Advantage to Fidelity CMA. I'd like to continue using MS Money to track my accounts. It will take batch downloads in Quicken format.

After searching the Fidelity site for batch downloading of transactions I called their support line and was told they no longer do batch pushes. They only support pulls from a limited set of programs.

Anyone have a work around? Otherwise I may go back to a spreadsheet and only track stuff I need for taxes like medical expenses.

It also seems that Fidelity does not provide online images of bill pay checks.

Both lackings are annoying.
"
I've been told by Fidelity that you can request a copy of the checks, both written checks and electronic checks. I have no idea what the turnaround time might be but presumably you'd rarely use this service unless you needed proof of payment or if there was a discrepancy in amount. The Fidelity rep did not know how long those hard copies would be available for.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by heartwood »

Doc wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:38 pm
heartwood wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:39 pm Anyone have a work around?
Don't know about the Fidelity CMA account but "regular" Fidelity accounts download directly to Quicken in the same way as Schwab, Vanguard and both our banks do.
Just to clarify, I was told that you can pull from outside Fidelity using Quicken and a couple of other softwares, but that you cannot initiate a batch download from Fidelity to Quicken or other programs. You can do a CSV file download. Their Visa credit card is hosted by Elan and capable of doing downloads in multiple formats.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by JMA »

The Vanguard Advantage program was an outstanding service — the best checking account arrangement on the market. No fees and money market interest rates, among other conveniences. I very much appreciated the one stop shopping aspect. It’s discontinuation is a giant personal hassle and an odd, customer-unfriendly move on the company’s part. Why do Fidelity and Schwab have such services (without the large balance hurdles) and publicize them highly? Must look into them.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by heartwood »

Another wrinkle for me. I had Advantage checking on my personal account, and on a trust account and on a LLC account. I was notified yesterday that the trust and the LLC accounts are ineligible for check writing. The explanation is that a limited agent can't set up checkwriting.

I have not discussed it with Vanguard yet, but it appears that the only way to get money out of those accounts is to send a check to the owner, me, but, catch-22, how do I cash it since that's the only account in either name? Perhaps I can transfer to another Vanguard personal account?

Anyone with experience with trust and LLC accounts?

Another homework assignment.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by dkturner »

heartwood wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:11 am Another wrinkle for me. I had Advantage checking on my personal account, and on a trust account and on a LLC account. I was notified yesterday that the trust and the LLC accounts are ineligible for check writing. The explanation is that a limited agent can't set up checkwriting.

I have not discussed it with Vanguard yet, but it appears that the only way to get money out of those accounts is to send a check to the owner, me, but, catch-22, how do I cash it since that's the only account in either name? Perhaps I can transfer to another Vanguard personal account?

Anyone with experience with trust and LLC accounts?

Another homework assignment.
The solution depends on how careful you want to be in avoiding mixing trust or LLC assets with personal assets.

If mixing isn’t a problem for you (or your attorney) you can move money from the trust or LLC account to your personal account then write you checks from that account.

If you want to avoid any mixing of assets your only choice is to maintain a separate bank checking account for each trust or LLC account. You would then have to “push” money from the Vanguard accounts to the corresponding bank checking accounts before writing your checks. A bit cumbersome but this option retains all of the legal niceties.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

dkturner wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:36 am
heartwood wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:11 am Another wrinkle for me. I had Advantage checking on my personal account, and on a trust account and on a LLC account. I was notified yesterday that the trust and the LLC accounts are ineligible for check writing. The explanation is that a limited agent can't set up checkwriting.

I have not discussed it with Vanguard yet, but it appears that the only way to get money out of those accounts is to send a check to the owner, me, but, catch-22, how do I cash it since that's the only account in either name? Perhaps I can transfer to another Vanguard personal account?

Anyone with experience with trust and LLC accounts?

Another homework assignment.
The solution depends on how careful you want to be in avoiding mixing trust or LLC assets with personal assets.

If mixing isn’t a problem for you (or your attorney) you can move money from the trust or LLC account to your personal account then write you checks from that account.

If you want to avoid any mixing of assets your only choice is to maintain a separate bank checking account for each trust or LLC account. You would then have to “push” money from the Vanguard accounts to the corresponding bank checking accounts before writing your checks. A bit cumbersome but this option retains all of the legal niceties.
Can you be set up as a full agent for the accounts?

I have the same restriction on setting up check writing on my wife's accounts. I am a limited agent, as well, so I cannot.

Years ago I was the trustee of my father's trust and my sister's trust, and I established and used check writing on both accounts.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by femur »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:31 am
PatrickA5 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:07 am
drzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:40 pm
sport wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm - and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.
This is very interesting. I use these checks for QCDs. After I verify this is the case, I will ask Vanguard for a new checkbook that does not state the $250 minimum on each check.
Let us know what you find out since I was planning to transfer the spouse's RMD to Fidelity since they allow you to write any size check on their money market account which I plan to use for QCD
I recently closed my Advantage account and added check writing on both Federal Money Market and Prime Money Market. Just got my checks a week ago. Both still have the "not valid if under $250" on them. My Flagship rep said that the $250 minimum still applies. So, I guess it's who you talk to.
I just sent Vanguard an email asking what the OFFICIAL policy was, on both Vanguard Prime MM and Vanguard Federal MM. I don't think I'll ever need to write a check less than $250, but I'd like to know one way or the other.

Recently I added a bond fund as an alternative redemption fund. So, I don't have to be as careful about the balance in my Vanguard Federal MM fund.

Broken Man 1999
Did you ever get an email back on official policy? Not having the $250 restriction would be great.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

femur wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:02 am
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:31 am
PatrickA5 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:07 am
drzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:40 pm
sport wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:35 pm This is very interesting. I use these checks for QCDs. After I verify this is the case, I will ask Vanguard for a new checkbook that does not state the $250 minimum on each check.
Let us know what you find out since I was planning to transfer the spouse's RMD to Fidelity since they allow you to write any size check on their money market account which I plan to use for QCD
I recently closed my Advantage account and added check writing on both Federal Money Market and Prime Money Market. Just got my checks a week ago. Both still have the "not valid if under $250" on them. My Flagship rep said that the $250 minimum still applies. So, I guess it's who you talk to.
I just sent Vanguard an email asking what the OFFICIAL policy was, on both Vanguard Prime MM and Vanguard Federal MM. I don't think I'll ever need to write a check less than $250, but I'd like to know one way or the other.

Recently I added a bond fund as an alternative redemption fund. So, I don't have to be as careful about the balance in my Vanguard Federal MM fund.

Broken Man 1999
Did you ever get an email back on official policy? Not having the $250 restriction would be great.
Ah, yes I did!

Dear Mr. Broken Man 1999,

Thank you for writing to us.

We offer checkwriting on the money market settlement fund for your Vanguard
Brokerage Account. There is no fee for this service. Please note that all
checks must be written for $250. or more.

{The rest of the email simply stated how to establish checkwriting, which I already have established.]

Best regards,

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx
Registered Representative



So, there it is, the official policy, at least as delivered by one rep.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by heartwood »

dkturner wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:36 am
heartwood wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:11 am Another wrinkle for me. I had Advantage checking on my personal account, and on a trust account and on a LLC account. I was notified yesterday that the trust and the LLC accounts are ineligible for check writing. The explanation is that a limited agent can't set up checkwriting.

I have not discussed it with Vanguard yet, but it appears that the only way to get money out of those accounts is to send a check to the owner, me, but, catch-22, how do I cash it since that's the only account in either name? Perhaps I can transfer to another Vanguard personal account?

Anyone with experience with trust and LLC accounts?

Another homework assignment.
The solution depends on how careful you want to be in avoiding mixing trust or LLC assets with personal assets.

If mixing isn’t a problem for you (or your attorney) you can move money from the trust or LLC account to your personal account then write you checks from that account.
Full agency is the key. I spoke to my rep since I posted above and he explained that I've chosen to see my LLC and trust accounts on my personal logon page with all my other accounts. On that page I'm a limited agent for each. He reminded me that the LLC and the trust each have a separate account logon that only applies to that account. That's the way we set it up years ago.
If I logon to the LLC account (or the trust account) specifically I have access to paper check writing (I received the checks over the weekend) and to transfers to a linked bank account if initiated at Vanguard. For the trust account we will have to submit additional paperwork to get the bank transfer established since the names and EIN/SSN are different, but I was assured its just paperwork.
My rep also mentioned that the $250 check minimum is a very soft number and I can ignore it even though its written on my checks. I really don't expect it to be an issue since we write only a few checks each year on each account each for more than that amount.
He also reminded me that neither LLC or trust is a "natural person" as defined by FAIS and cannot use any other MM fund except the Federal MM.
So it appears it will work with some additional effort.
After a month or so at Fidelity I would jump on a restart of the Vanguard Advantage account and gladly pay for it. I might put that in my closing for all my posts.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by smectym »

Question: After the demise of Vanguard Advantage, will Vanguard still offer some sort of debit card access, or will there no longer be any Vanguard debit card?

Thanks,

Smectym

PS If the answer is already posted somewhere in this voluminous thread, sorry, I must have missed it.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by William4u »

smectym wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:00 pm Question: After the demise of Vanguard Advantage, will Vanguard still offer some sort of debit card access, or will there no longer be any Vanguard debit card?

Thanks,

Smectym

PS If the answer is already posted somewhere in this voluminous thread, sorry, I must have missed it.
Nope, no more debit card.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by friar1610 »

friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm
Today I was talking to the Flagship rep and I was told:
- check writing won't actually go away on the settlement account (Fed MM) although it will have to be reestablished (with a new checkbook/new checks) once the brokerage account ceases to be an Advantage account and takes on its new life as a standard brokerage account.
- there will NOT be a $250 minimum on checks drawn on it
- and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.

Don't know if anyone knows about this or cares but it makes life without Advantage a bit less onerous for me.
I previously posted the quote above and several other BHs responded that they got different answers relative to the $250 minimum on checks. Today I was again talking to someone in the Flagship shop and asked for clarification. This rep said that the $250 minimum will remain. He also clarified that under the new (post-Advantage) arrangement, the checks will still be drawn on the settlement account, not directly on Prime MMF. But when one submits the application for check writing on the new brokerage account, s/he can designate an "alternative redemption fund". That means that if there is not enough in the settlement account to cover the check, the funds are taken from that alternative fund. So, by designating Prime MMF (or any other eligible fund) as the alternative fund, the practical result is that the funds come from that fund, even if you don't have anything in your settlement account.

You have to fill out the form and snail mail it in to establish the new check writing service. And even though the form says, "If you have a Vanguard Advantage account, you can't establish this check writing service", the rep told me to just ignore that. :oops:

My goal, BTW, is to get the new check writing service established before the Advantage check writing goes away.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by HomeStretch »

friar1610 wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:45 am
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm
Today I was talking to the Flagship rep and I was told:
- check writing won't actually go away on the settlement account (Fed MM) although it will have to be reestablished (with a new checkbook/new checks) once the brokerage account ceases to be an Advantage account and takes on its new life as a standard brokerage account.
- there will NOT be a $250 minimum on checks drawn on it
- and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.

Don't know if anyone knows about this or cares but it makes life without Advantage a bit less onerous for me.
I previously posted the quote above and several other BHs responded that they got different answers relative to the $250 minimum on checks. Today I was again talking to someone in the Flagship shop and asked for clarification. This rep said that the $250 minimum will remain. He also clarified that under the new (post-Advantage) arrangement, the checks will still be drawn on the settlement account, not directly on Prime MMF. But when one submits the application for check writing on the new brokerage account, s/he can designate an "alternative redemption fund". That means that if there is not enough in the settlement account to cover the check, the funds are taken from that alternative fund. So, by designating Prime MMF (or any other eligible fund) as the alternative fund, the practical result is that the funds come from that fund, even if you don't have anything in your settlement account.

You have to fill out the form and snail mail it in to establish the new check writing service. And even though the form says, "If you have a Vanguard Advantage account, you can't establish this check writing service", the rep told me to just ignore that. :oops:

My goal, BTW, is to get the new check writing service established before the Advantage check writing goes away.
Datapoint - I just went through the process of adding check writing with Vanguard. It took about 2 weeks after mailing for the form to be processed (received an account notification that check writing had been added) and another 1-2 weeks to receive the physical checks. The form states there is a $250 minimum (although I have no experience whether it’s enforced or not).
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by dkturner »

friar1610 wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:45 am
friar1610 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:19 pm
Today I was talking to the Flagship rep and I was told:
- check writing won't actually go away on the settlement account (Fed MM) although it will have to be reestablished (with a new checkbook/new checks) once the brokerage account ceases to be an Advantage account and takes on its new life as a standard brokerage account.
- there will NOT be a $250 minimum on checks drawn on it
- and, oh by the way, the $250 minimum on Prime MM no longer exists.

Don't know if anyone knows about this or cares but it makes life without Advantage a bit less onerous for me.
I previously posted the quote above and several other BHs responded that they got different answers relative to the $250 minimum on checks. Today I was again talking to someone in the Flagship shop and asked for clarification. This rep said that the $250 minimum will remain. He also clarified that under the new (post-Advantage) arrangement, the checks will still be drawn on the settlement account, not directly on Prime MMF. But when one submits the application for check writing on the new brokerage account, s/he can designate an "alternative redemption fund". That means that if there is not enough in the settlement account to cover the check, the funds are taken from that alternative fund. So, by designating Prime MMF (or any other eligible fund) as the alternative fund, the practical result is that the funds come from that fund, even if you don't have anything in your settlement account.

You have to fill out the form and snail mail it in to establish the new check writing service. And even though the form says, "If you have a Vanguard Advantage account, you can't establish this check writing service", the rep told me to just ignore that. :oops:

My goal, BTW, is to get the new check writing service established before the Advantage check writing goes away.
We’re currently going through the process of switching from an Advantage Account to regular checking drawn on our MM settlement account. Our Flagship Rep mailed us an application for check-writing that arrived while we were out of town. When I opened the envelope the form was partially filled out - but it had had been completed with other customers names. I called and asked to have an incomplete form mailed to us, which we are still waiting for.

The real three ring circus we encountered is getting our IRA RMDs moved from our Advantage Account. Previously we had our RMDs transferred from our IRAs to our joint MM settlement fund, so we could access the funds with our Advantage checking account. We were told we can’t do that anymore (it’s a long convoluted story because our Joint MM Account is a brokerage account and our IRAs are individual mutual fund accounts). The only choices we have are to have the RMDs deposited in our individual taxable mutual fund accounts or transferred to our regular bank joint checking account. We have to decide whether to add MM settlement fund accounts to our individual taxable mutual accounts - and complete separate check-writing authorization forms for each account or have the RMDs go to our regular joint bank checking account.

I can’t believe that in the 21st century a multi trillion $ company is so difficult to deal with.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

dkturner wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:32 pm it’s a long convoluted story because our Joint MM Account is a brokerage account and our IRAs are individual mutual fund accounts)
It's not just the brokerage vs. mutual fund account. Transfers between accounts with different ownership forms like joint, single, taxable, ROTH is subject to weird restrictions that is impossible to figure out. The logic is not logical.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by abloom79 »

abloom79 wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:57 am The discontinuance of VA gave us a homework assignment we didn't want or need. I'm disappointed with Vanguard for doing this, and angry that they gave us only a 6 month window to complete it. Not a nice way to treat their most loyal customers!

Given that the announcement came at tax time I felt like I needed to act quickly to find a substitute so I could set up my estimated payments for the year. I don't ever want to deal with a bank again, so I set up a brokerage account at Fidelity. First step was to move all my stock holdings and enough cash to cover the transition period while I work out all the details. I'd move everything but there are fees and restrictions to maintain Admiral funds outside of Vanguard. For full flexibility in managing my funds, it would be necessary to sell the Admiral funds and buy other funds inside Fidelity. That ain't happening due primarily to the prohibitive capital gains I would realize. So I'm leaving my mutual funds at Vanguard, at least for now.

So now I'm a smaller fish in two ponds. I'll fall just below the Flagship level at Vanguard, but fortunately I satisfy Fidelity's balance requirement for fee waivers, etc, and I'll get a cash bonus, too.

It'll be a couple of weeks before I can tie all the loose ends together. So far so good...
A couple of months into my hybrid solution: Fidelity Brokerage Account for stocks and banking while leaving my mutual fund portfolio & 529s as-is at Vanguard. I have Fidelity set up as a"bank" at Vanguard and moving money from Vanguard to Fidelity has not been a problem at all (although, as others have pointed out, it took Vanguard a ridiculous amount of time to "validate" their microdeposits). Fidelity gave me a $2500 bonus for moving in, and have otherwise been extremely cooperative. All good, and lots of features that were never really perfect at Vanguard work well there. This includes mobile deposit and a consolidated view of all assets across all institutions that actually updates the number of shares automatically. Fidelity imported all the cost basis detail for my stocks-- both for covered and uncovered shares.

A few things I've learned along the way: I do everything with direct deposit and autopay, and pulling Vanguard out of that mix was a project! Redirecting Social Security direct deposit takes 2 to 3 months to complete. I set up everything in March, but the first SS direct deposit to Fidelity is finally supposed to happen the last week in May. We'll see. Some institutions that I needed to inform of the change were much more savvy than others. Credit card monthly automatic payments were a snap to redirect, but redirecting monthly health insurance payments to AmeriHealth was not easy at all. (NOTHING is ever easy with AmeriHealth!) Changing EFTPS to take my estimated tax payments from Fidelity was not user friendly at all, and I won't know for sure that what I did worked until the June 15th payments. Bottom line is that anyone who hasn't started this process yet had better move fast!

One question: I feel it's prudent to keep the "Advantage" structure in place until the pending Social Security deposits and Estimated Tax withdrawals have actually landed at Fidelity. This will bring things to mid-June. I won't need checkwriting on my remaining Vanguard Federal Funds and Prime MM funds, so I unlike many others here I have no need to pre-emptively close it. I figure I'll just let Advantage lapse, but what happens at the cutoff point? For example, I have an open ended monthly push set up to a bank. I know it's the kind of transaction that should still work, but how much of the structure of things change within Vanguard? New account numbers, etc. etc. Curious if anyone has a sense of this.

Anyway, good luck!
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asset_chaos
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by asset_chaos »

I was finally able to establish an account with a credit union---lots of hoops for me personally to open an account from abroad---and when I go to set up the link with my Vanguard money market, Vanguard says verification of the banking details will take 7---10 days after I confirmed the micro payments. That seems like a long time in this day and age to verify something about a credit union. I asked the flagship rep to please expedite this, but they weren't helpful about that. Bottom line, it'll still be another week or so before I can actually use the bank account.

I guess it was too much to hope that since Vanguard chose to break this service that they'd that they'd put forth some effort to help clients establish alternative arrangements.
Regards, | | Guy
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Mel Lindauer
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer »

abloom79 wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 11:39 am
abloom79 wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:57 am The discontinuance of VA gave us a homework assignment we didn't want or need. I'm disappointed with Vanguard for doing this, and angry that they gave us only a 6 month window to complete it. Not a nice way to treat their most loyal customers!

Given that the announcement came at tax time I felt like I needed to act quickly to find a substitute so I could set up my estimated payments for the year. I don't ever want to deal with a bank again, so I set up a brokerage account at Fidelity. First step was to move all my stock holdings and enough cash to cover the transition period while I work out all the details. I'd move everything but there are fees and restrictions to maintain Admiral funds outside of Vanguard. For full flexibility in managing my funds, it would be necessary to sell the Admiral funds and buy other funds inside Fidelity. That ain't happening due primarily to the prohibitive capital gains I would realize. So I'm leaving my mutual funds at Vanguard, at least for now.

So now I'm a smaller fish in two ponds. I'll fall just below the Flagship level at Vanguard, but fortunately I satisfy Fidelity's balance requirement for fee waivers, etc, and I'll get a cash bonus, too.

It'll be a couple of weeks before I can tie all the loose ends together. So far so good...
A couple of months into my hybrid solution: Fidelity Brokerage Account for stocks and banking while leaving my mutual fund portfolio & 529s as-is at Vanguard. I have Fidelity set up as a"bank" at Vanguard and moving money from Vanguard to Fidelity has not been a problem at all (although, as others have pointed out, it took Vanguard a ridiculous amount of time to "validate" their microdeposits). Fidelity gave me a $2500 bonus for moving in, and have otherwise been extremely cooperative. All good, and lots of features that were never really perfect at Vanguard work well there. This includes mobile deposit and a consolidated view of all assets across all institutions that actually updates the number of shares automatically. Fidelity imported all the cost basis detail for my stocks-- both for covered and uncovered shares.

A few things I've learned along the way: I do everything with direct deposit and autopay, and pulling Vanguard out of that mix was a project! Redirecting Social Security direct deposit takes 2 to 3 months to complete. I set up everything in March, but the first SS direct deposit to Fidelity is finally supposed to happen the last week in May. We'll see. Some institutions that I needed to inform of the change were much more savvy than others. Credit card monthly automatic payments were a snap to redirect, but redirecting monthly health insurance payments to AmeriHealth was not easy at all. (NOTHING is ever easy with AmeriHealth!) Changing EFTPS to take my estimated tax payments from Fidelity was not user friendly at all, and I won't know for sure that what I did worked until the June 15th payments. Bottom line is that anyone who hasn't started this process yet had better move fast!

One question: I feel it's prudent to keep the "Advantage" structure in place until the pending Social Security deposits and Estimated Tax withdrawals have actually landed at Fidelity. This will bring things to mid-June. I won't need checkwriting on my remaining Vanguard Federal Funds and Prime MM funds, so I unlike many others here I have no need to pre-emptively close it. I figure I'll just let Advantage lapse, but what happens at the cutoff point? For example, I have an open ended monthly push set up to a bank. I know it's the kind of transaction that should still work, but how much of the structure of things change within Vanguard? New account numbers, etc. etc. Curious if anyone has a sense of this.

Anyway, good luck!
What did you have to do to get the $2500 bonus?
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Doc
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 12:25 pm What did you have to do to get the $2500 bonus?
Goggle "Fidelity move in bonus" and get

https://www.moneysmylife.com/fidelity-promotions/

and several more. :D
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
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