Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

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Taylor Larimore
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Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Bogleheads:

In 1989, my wife and I purchased a two-bedroom apartment in a Miami condominium. Our balconies overlook Biscayne Bay and the City of Miami.

Standing on our "city side" 35th floor balcony, I can see hundreds of successful corporations where thousands of employees are working 40+ hours a week to make their company more profitable for me. This is because I share their profits using my Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund.

Thank you, Jack.

Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

Dink2018
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Dink2018 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:42 pm

Love it. I just bought 10k of Total World Admiral with the same general idea. Gotta do something with my money, leaving it in cash my whole life isn't a great option. For me the hardest decision isn't indexing its stock bond ratio. I'm sitting at 90% cash 5% stock and 5% bond since I'm not sure if I'm buying a house soon or moving to another state. Lots of things up in the air.

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Taj_Mahalo
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Taj_Mahalo » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:00 pm

Whether I need it or not, Taylor's posts are always reassuring and well timed.
Income is not wealth. Wealth is not income. Both are equally as important and either is capable of producing the other.

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bertilak
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by bertilak » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:10 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:20 pm
Standing on our "city side" 35th floor balcony, I can see hundreds of successful corporations where thousands of employees are working 40+ hours a week to make their company more profitable for me.
Well, that certainly shows us the big picture in a way to make it clear. I like it.

Thanks Taylor.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet

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AstroJohn
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by AstroJohn » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:24 pm

Occasionally, I get a little too involved in overthinking how my money should be invested. And then Taylor comes along and reminds me that this really isn't rocket science. Thanks Taylor.

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obafgkm
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by obafgkm » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:25 pm

Mr. Larimore has expressed something that reminds me that companies are not monoliths, but there are actual people behind them. And those people are working for their company's owners, like me.

Thanks for the reminder!

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by lostdog » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:26 am

Thanks Taylor. I wish I was an astranaut looking down at the planet Earth and saying the same thing about Vanguard Total World Index Admiral. Thanks Jack!
Taxable: VTSAX and VTIAX || Tax Deferred: VTWAX

LawyersGunsAndMoney
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by LawyersGunsAndMoney » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:52 am

Yes. I occasionally dabble into a stream of thought where I muse at how absurd and radical it is that we've taught ourselves that companies should put shareholders interests first (before employees, the communities they exist in, or society) - but find some solace in the notion that I exist on both sides of that divide.

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Jiu Jitsu Fighter » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:08 pm

So, that must mean that we should be adding Private Equity to the three-fund portfolio. We wouldn't want to miss out on the profits generated from all of those 40-hour-per-week private company employees.

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Kitty Telltales
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Kitty Telltales » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:31 pm

Here's wishing you will keep enjoying that gorgeous view in the best health for many many many more years to come!

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Ben Mathew
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Ben Mathew » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:34 pm

Jiu Jitsu Fighter wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:08 pm
So, that must mean that we should be adding Private Equity to the three-fund portfolio. We wouldn't want to miss out on the profits generated from all of those 40-hour-per-week private company employees.
Interesting thought. I wonder what the profitability of private companies are. Even some prominent large companies like IKEA are private. And all those mom and pop stores? I'd take a share of them all, if possible. Unfortunately, investing in private equity would get me only a few large companies that are undergoing a "remodel."

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Jags4186 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm

Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by bondsr4me » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:44 pm

Kitty Telltales wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:31 pm
Here's wishing you will keep enjoying that gorgeous view in the best health for many many many more years to come!
+100 on the above...

Taylor's posts are always mild mannered, helpful and well thought out.

Don

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by 2015 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:07 pm

I don't want to leave any stone unturned so I own some Vanguard Total International as well so people all over the world can work for me. :wink:

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by FOGU » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:30 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
I have the same reaction. Sometimes I wonder how they generate enough to pay their own salaries, let alone generate profits for the company owners. Ladle on the labor and tax regs and I am even more leery.

I have seen this virus infecting the USA too, but the USA is still far ahead of just about everywhere else in the world in service, industriousness and legal/commercial order.

Ambition89
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Ambition89 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:48 pm

Great exercise to visualize what a total market index fund means. Thank you Mr. Larimore.

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willthrill81
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:54 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
It's interesting to see how many countries have mandates on minimum annual leave for employees. The U.S. has none at the federal or state level.

At the top of this Wikipedia list is Iran at 53 days per year.

All of the BRIC markets (Brazil, Russia, India, and China) mandate 16-34 days per year, depending on several factors.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Stinky
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Stinky » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:03 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:20 pm
Bogleheads:

In 1989, my wife and I purchased a two-bedroom apartment in a Miami condominium. Our balconies overlook Biscayne Bay and the City of Miami.

Standing on our "city side" 35th floor balcony, I can see hundreds of successful corporations where thousands of employees are working 40+ hours a week to make their company more profitable for me. This is because I share their profits using my Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund.

Thank you, Jack.

Taylor
I often have the same kind of thoughts as I look out the window on a domestic airplane flight.

People in the cities, people in the farmlands, all working for my benefit.
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt

westcoastsaver
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by westcoastsaver » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:03 pm

As a newcomer to the forum, it is straight forward and honest posts like this that really excite those of us looking for a simpler and better way to invest. Thank you indeed, Taylor!

Ricky

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:17 pm

Stinky wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:03 pm
I often have the same kind of thoughts as I look out the window on a domestic airplane flight.

People in the cities, people in the farmlands, all working for my benefit.
Actually those people are working for their own benefit (and their communities'). In the case of those who work for companies listed on a public stock market, their work has been enabled or enhanced via the capital you have provided by investing in their company, thus allowing you to share in the fruits of the those labors.

It is a two way street where both labor and capital have input and both share in the rewards. It is why Capitalism is the most successful anti-poverty program in human history.

Thank you Taylor for reminding of the positive role that equities investing has in our society.

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FOGU
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by FOGU » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:41 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:54 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
It's interesting to see how many countries have mandates on minimum annual leave for employees. The U.S. has none at the federal or state level.

At the top of this Wikipedia list is Iran at 53 days per year.

All of the BRIC markets (Brazil, Russia, India, and China) mandate 16-34 days per year, depending on several factors.
Not just annual leave/vacation days. Extra paychecks. In Bolivia, where I have significant experience, the norm is for employees to receive 14 monthly salaries for 12 months' employment. The government can mandate, when it wants, another paycheck. So 15 monthly paychecks in a year. Not to mention the benefits that are about 25% more on top of wages, and on and on. The government thinks it is protecting workers. But really it is eliminating jobs because business owner don't want to sign on for such abuse unless absolutely necessary.

Not to hijack the thread, but I do believe many who advocate international investment exposure should gain more international cultural exposure so as to know how many lightyears the USA has on most of the rest of the world economically, legally, socially, politically, etc. The USA total market is a good bet comparatively.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by UpperNwGuy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:11 pm

The total stock market index funds are the best. I own both Vanguard's and Schwab's versions, but I would not mind owning the total stock market index funds at Fidelity, iShares, and State Street.

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.

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FOGU
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by FOGU » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:56 pm

gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
You mean you could take care of business on the phone? And it took a whole 20 minutes? What hardship.

You mean you didn't have to make 5 trips into an office that doesn't take phone calls, and where people are perpetually on break or vacation? Ever been to an office to get customer service for your electricity and been told that the person who handles that issue is on maternity leave and will be back maybe next month and to come back then? Kinda puts your hold time and musac in perspective and shows the superiority of US service * IN COMPARISON * to most places in the world.

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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:10 pm

FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:56 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
You mean you could take care of business on the phone? And it took a whole 20 minutes? What hardship.

You mean you didn't have to make 5 trips into an office that doesn't take phone calls, and where people are perpetually on break or vacation? Ever been to an office to get customer service for your electricity and been told that the person who handles that issue is on maternity leave and will be back maybe next month and to come back then? Kinda puts your hold time and musac in perspective and shows the superiority of US service * IN COMPARISON * to most places in the world.
There has been a dramatic decline in customer service in the US over the last 25 to 30 years, due mostly to corporate cost cutting and personnel cuts. I am surprised you are unaware of that, but perhaps you are younger than me.

Jags4186
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Jags4186 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:18 pm

FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:56 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
You mean you could take care of business on the phone? And it took a whole 20 minutes? What hardship.

You mean you didn't have to make 5 trips into an office that doesn't take phone calls, and where people are perpetually on break or vacation? Ever been to an office to get customer service for your electricity and been told that the person who handles that issue is on maternity leave and will be back maybe next month and to come back then? Kinda puts your hold time and musac in perspective and shows the superiority of US service * IN COMPARISON * to most places in the world.
Exactly. I remember trying to return an Avis rental car in Venice. The worker, who was in the office just with the door locked watching TV, was on lunch from 11-2. Absolutely refused to take the keys until 2pm...meanwhile it’s 11:30am. Mind you, he had the energy to open the door to yell at me in Italian that I was being disrespectful for wanting service during his lunch break. I didn’t really understand why he was refusing to help me so I just stared and knocked on the door for like 10 minutes thinking he just couldn’t see or hear me.

Nevermind the near constant strikes that go on in Western Europe affecting government services, museums, mass transit, etc.

Jags4186
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Jags4186 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:19 pm

gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:10 pm
FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:56 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
You mean you could take care of business on the phone? And it took a whole 20 minutes? What hardship.

You mean you didn't have to make 5 trips into an office that doesn't take phone calls, and where people are perpetually on break or vacation? Ever been to an office to get customer service for your electricity and been told that the person who handles that issue is on maternity leave and will be back maybe next month and to come back then? Kinda puts your hold time and musac in perspective and shows the superiority of US service * IN COMPARISON * to most places in the world.
There has been a dramatic decline in customer service in the US over the last 25 to 30 years, due mostly to corporate cost cutting and personnel cuts. I am surprised you are unaware of that, but perhaps you are younger than me.
The point I am making is that despite whatever we perceive has inadequate customer service here, your 20 minutes on hold example, is light years ahead of what people in many other countries get.

TropikThunder
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by TropikThunder » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:20 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
Right? That's why there are no rich people or successful companies outside of the US.

Jags4186
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Jags4186 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:28 pm

TropikThunder wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:20 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
Right? That's why there are no rich people or successful companies outside of the US.
I mean, my comment was sort of tongue and cheek, but there definitely is some truth to it. You also can’t deny that the US has created more rich people and hyper successful companies than anywhere else.

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gmaynardkrebs
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:29 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:19 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:10 pm
FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:56 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
You mean you could take care of business on the phone? And it took a whole 20 minutes? What hardship.

You mean you didn't have to make 5 trips into an office that doesn't take phone calls, and where people are perpetually on break or vacation? Ever been to an office to get customer service for your electricity and been told that the person who handles that issue is on maternity leave and will be back maybe next month and to come back then? Kinda puts your hold time and musac in perspective and shows the superiority of US service * IN COMPARISON * to most places in the world.
There has been a dramatic decline in customer service in the US over the last 25 to 30 years, due mostly to corporate cost cutting and personnel cuts. I am surprised you are unaware of that, but perhaps you are younger than me.
The point I am making is that despite whatever we perceive has inadequate customer service here, your 20 minutes on hold example, is light years ahead of what people in many other countries get.
Some other countries don't have running water. I live here, and customer service has declined terribly; I'm not about to excuse that because things are worse somewhere else. And 20 minutes on hold is inexcusable, unless one values his time at 0, which I do not.

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FOGU
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by FOGU » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:35 pm

gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:10 pm
FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:56 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
You mean you could take care of business on the phone? And it took a whole 20 minutes? What hardship.

You mean you didn't have to make 5 trips into an office that doesn't take phone calls, and where people are perpetually on break or vacation? Ever been to an office to get customer service for your electricity and been told that the person who handles that issue is on maternity leave and will be back maybe next month and to come back then? Kinda puts your hold time and musac in perspective and shows the superiority of US service * IN COMPARISON * to most places in the world.
There has been a dramatic decline in customer service in the US over the last 25 to 30 years, due mostly to corporate cost cutting and personnel cuts. I am surprised you are unaware of that, but perhaps you are younger than me.
You apparently did not read my previous post in this very thread where I lamented the fact that the virus of poor service is infecting the USA. Yes, I am well aware of the decline and it saddens and frustrates me no end. I wish it were better. Even considering this decline, however, the level of service in the USA, personally and via technology, dwarfs most of the rest of the world. Whatever your age I suggest you gain some perspective on what is actually out there available in the world and invest accordingly.

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gmaynardkrebs
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:43 pm

FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:35 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:10 pm
FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:56 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
You mean you could take care of business on the phone? And it took a whole 20 minutes? What hardship.

You mean you didn't have to make 5 trips into an office that doesn't take phone calls, and where people are perpetually on break or vacation? Ever been to an office to get customer service for your electricity and been told that the person who handles that issue is on maternity leave and will be back maybe next month and to come back then? Kinda puts your hold time and musac in perspective and shows the superiority of US service * IN COMPARISON * to most places in the world.
There has been a dramatic decline in customer service in the US over the last 25 to 30 years, due mostly to corporate cost cutting and personnel cuts. I am surprised you are unaware of that, but perhaps you are younger than me.
You apparently did not read my previous post in this very thread where I lamented the fact that the virus of poor service is infecting the USA. Yes, I am well aware of the decline and it saddens and frustrates me no end. I wish it were better. Even considering this decline, however, the level of service in the USA, personally and via technology, dwarfs most of the rest of the world. Whatever your age I suggest you gain some perspective on what is actually out there available in the world and invest accordingly.
I did not see your earlier post, apologies.

averagedude
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by averagedude » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:52 pm

Beautiful view Taylor. So many people look around and see the negative. People who look around with a positive attitude with positive thinking have been compensated well, not only in the returns on their investments, but also in their outlook on life.

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FOGU
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by FOGU » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:55 pm

gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:43 pm
FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:35 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:10 pm
FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:56 pm
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
You mean you could take care of business on the phone? And it took a whole 20 minutes? What hardship.

You mean you didn't have to make 5 trips into an office that doesn't take phone calls, and where people are perpetually on break or vacation? Ever been to an office to get customer service for your electricity and been told that the person who handles that issue is on maternity leave and will be back maybe next month and to come back then? Kinda puts your hold time and musac in perspective and shows the superiority of US service * IN COMPARISON * to most places in the world.
There has been a dramatic decline in customer service in the US over the last 25 to 30 years, due mostly to corporate cost cutting and personnel cuts. I am surprised you are unaware of that, but perhaps you are younger than me.
You apparently did not read my previous post in this very thread where I lamented the fact that the virus of poor service is infecting the USA. Yes, I am well aware of the decline and it saddens and frustrates me no end. I wish it were better. Even considering this decline, however, the level of service in the USA, personally and via technology, dwarfs most of the rest of the world. Whatever your age I suggest you gain some perspective on what is actually out there available in the world and invest accordingly.
I did not see your earlier post, apologies.
Quite alright. Thank you.
In matters of service and attention, sometimes I feel like I was born a century too late.

jibantik
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by jibantik » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:41 am

FOGU wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:41 pm

Not just annual leave/vacation days. Extra paychecks. In Bolivia, where I have significant experience, the norm is for employees to receive 14 monthly salaries for 12 months' employment. The government can mandate, when it wants, another paycheck. So 15 monthly paychecks in a year. Not to mention the benefits that are about 25% more on top of wages, and on and on. The government thinks it is protecting workers. But really it is eliminating jobs because business owner don't want to sign on for such abuse unless absolutely necessary.

Not to hijack the thread, but I do believe many who advocate international investment exposure should gain more international cultural exposure so as to know how many lightyears the USA has on most of the rest of the world economically, legally, socially, politically, etc. The USA total market is a good bet comparatively.
Yes, I am sure all the professional investors have never thought about this type of thing. We got the early scoop here folks, BUY BUY BUY. Lets speculate and try to outperform the market, surely we are smarter than everyone else. Why stop there, lets overweight in some FANG too. :oops:

Darwin
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Darwin » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:06 am

gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
I think you stumbled into mine field here... Generally speaking, the respondents here do not shoehorn themselves into "middle" seats, because their class of airline travel does not HAVE middle seats. I think, sometimes, there's a sharp divide on this forum finance-wise. This thread is just more extreme than average. Tiptoe backward, very quietly...
No planet, no business. Earth bats last.

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gmaynardkrebs
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:25 am

Darwin wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:06 am
gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:40 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 pm
Makes me not want to invest in international markets because whenever I go abroad I see people taking multi hour siestas, a general lack of US class customer service, and depending where, either an overall mood of having societies best interests at heart overall maximizing profitability or total corruption.
US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please.
I think you stumbled into mine field here... Generally speaking, the respondents here do not shoehorn themselves into "middle" seats, because their class of airline travel does not HAVE middle seats. I think, sometimes, there's a sharp divide on this forum finance-wise. This thread is just more extreme than average. Tiptoe backward, very quietly...
I dunno, WSJ has a pretty high demographic, and their air travel line column is called "The Middle Seat." :happy It's interesting though...my impression is the opposite, due to the ubiquity of the posts about safe withdrawal rates, and relatively few discussing the estate tax, even when it was a mere $5M for a marries couples. I'm sure we have a good number of low single digit millionaires, most of it in 401Ks; but even those sums should be discounted by the fact that they are pre-tax.

bg5
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by bg5 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:06 am

I love VTSAX as well.....thats why I have put 100% of my retirement into it. My situation is a little bit different than most Americans as my wife and I will both have pensions with COLA and we will be able to easily live off of them alone.

I also understand the argument for foreign exposure and have no issues with anyone putting money in overseas. I just tend to lean in the direction that I feel I will have a better return this way but I am def not suggesting that anyone follow my footsteps.

The simplicity of 1 fund is perfect for me. The bottom line is the foreign vs. domestic allocation debate probably does not matter all that much. I have learned its more about putting money away that debating 20% or more in foreign.

The best of luck to everyone and I am sure glad I found out about VTSAX.

Cheers!

Shallowpockets
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Shallowpockets » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:39 am

I have VTI sitting negative after buying last year lump sum with no DCA. I know that this is long term, but watching it languish is not appealing.

retiringwhen
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by retiringwhen » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:21 am

Shallowpockets wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:39 am
I have VTI sitting negative after buying last year lump sum with no DCA. I know that this is long term, but watching it languish is not appealing.
Tax-loss harvest, it adds a bit of honey to the pill.

I had the same experience......

2015
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by 2015 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:26 pm

westcoastsaver wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:03 pm
As a newcomer to the forum, it is straight forward and honest posts like this that really excite those of us looking for a simpler and better way to invest. Thank you indeed, Taylor!

Ricky
Good for you! I caution not to make the mistakes of so many others driven by ego and greed to create complex and clever investing schemes only to learn the hard way. As one who has done so, I highly recommend not going that way. I've come to the conclusion that anything that poses as "financial information" which is tainted with any hint of complexity is written by someone with interests diametrically opposed to my own. The dirty little secret in investing is that it is hard. And easy. As hard as you make it or as easy as you make it.

I highly recommend reading Taylor's Gems on this site:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Taylor_ ... tment_Gems

It will help to keep you from joining the ranks of those who do more harm to themselves than good.

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abuss368
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by abuss368 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:33 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:20 pm
Bogleheads:

In 1989, my wife and I purchased a two-bedroom apartment in a Miami condominium. Our balconies overlook Biscayne Bay and the City of Miami.

Standing on our "city side" 35th floor balcony, I can see hundreds of successful corporations where thousands of employees are working 40+ hours a week to make their company more profitable for me. This is because I share their profits using my Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund.

Thank you, Jack.

Taylor
Very logical and well said.

Thank you much Taylor!
John C. Bogle - Two Fund Portfolio: Total Stock & Total Bond. "Simplicity is the master key to financial success." || Buy Total Stock until it hurts. Then find a way to buy even more!

Godot
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Godot » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:41 pm

"US class customer service? When was the last time you called customer service? Were you put on hold for 20 minutes with elevator music blaring in your earpiece? How many many menus did you have to go through because the last thing they wanted to do was have a human talk to you. Oh yes, airline travel -- such cordial treatment -- they even have uniformed employees to shoehorn you into your middle seat, and take your hand baggage from you because the bins are full. Please."

+1 Seriously.
Estragon: I can't go on like this. | Vladimir: That's what you think. | ― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

Jerry476
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Re: Why I Own a Total Market Index Fund

Post by Jerry476 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:15 am

I threw in with Taylor several years back. His posts are reassuring, measured, logical and spot on. Three funds do it all. Thank you Taylor. Thank you Jack. Oh, and another reason for the three fund approach: You no longer have to read consumer financial baloney.

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