Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) now available (February 7)

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lostdog
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by lostdog » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am

Will the fund automatically convert to admiral shares or do I need to initiate a call with Vanguard to do this for me?
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:26 am

If it's like the others recently, Vanguard said that they would do it eventually on their own. But there is also usually a CONVERT button that appears when an Investor shares holding reaches the Admiral share threshold. You can trigger the conversion yourself with that button or with a phone call.

The button might not appear the first day that the Admiral shares are available.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by hdas » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:52 am

I own this fund. It's ok, however all the available evidence seems to indicate that SCZ + DGS is better. I just hate the high expense ratio, but that has not hindered performance in the past. :greedy
"whenever there is a randomized way of doing something, then there is a nonrandomized way that delivers better performance but requires more thought" ET Jaynes

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by Vulcan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:34 am

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:00 am
According to a new filing with the SEC today, Admiral Shares for Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund and Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund should launch February 5, 2019.
Anyone else finds themselves compulsively refreshing Vanguard's home page this morning?:)
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:42 am

Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:34 am
jhfenton wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:00 am
According to a new filing with the SEC today, Admiral Shares for Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund and Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund should launch February 5, 2019.
Anyone else finds themselves compulsively refreshing Vanguard's home page this morning?:)
I did check, both on the purchase/exchange screen and on a fund search.

I've also had the SEC page for the All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund as a pinned tab for a week. There have been no new filings.

At this point, I'm not expecting them to appear today. We might see an announcement today with a launch date. There's no reason it couldn't be this week.

lostdog
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by lostdog » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:30 am

:mrgreen: we
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:42 am
Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:34 am
jhfenton wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:00 am
According to a new filing with the SEC today, Admiral Shares for Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund and Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund should launch February 5, 2019.
Anyone else finds themselves compulsively refreshing Vanguard's home page this morning?:)
I did check, both on the purchase/exchange screen and on a fund search.

I've also had the SEC page for the All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund as a pinned tab for a week. There have been no new filings.

At this point, I'm not expecting them to appear today. We might see an announcement today with a launch date. There's no reason it couldn't be this week.
Nothing so far. I'm going to assume this week.
I don't invest looking in the rear view mirror and I know absolutely nothing about the future.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by cheezit » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:08 am

lostdog wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am
Will the fund automatically convert to admiral shares or do I need to initiate a call with Vanguard to do this for me?
Couldn't you just sell your shares of VFSVX and buy shares of VFSAX? In my brokerage account, there's even a separate link to exchange shares of one Vanguard fund for another without selling and buying.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:24 am

cheezit wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:08 am
lostdog wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am
Will the fund automatically convert to admiral shares or do I need to initiate a call with Vanguard to do this for me?
Couldn't you just sell your shares of VFSVX and buy shares of VFSAX? In my brokerage account, there's even a separate link to exchange shares of one Vanguard fund for another without selling and buying.
Maybe you could in a retirement account. I've never tried to "exchange" from one share class of a fund to another. The one time I started out with Investor Shares (VEMBX/Vanguard Emerging Market Market Bonds Fund Investor Shares), I used the "convert" button that appeared the day after I brought my balance over $50K.

And I don't currently own any Investor Shares except for VFSVX and the Admiral Shares aren't in the system yet, so I can't try it. (I also own VOHIX/Vanguard Ohio Long-Term Tax Exempt, but they are not labeled as Investor Shares and there are also no Admiral Shares.)

In a taxable account, the conversion allows you to avoid taxes on the sale of the original share class.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by Vulcan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:33 am

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:24 am
Maybe you could in a retirement account. I've never tried to "exchange" from one share class of a fund to another. The one time I started out with Investor Shares (VEMBX/Vanguard Emerging Market Market Bonds Fund Investor Shares), I used the "convert" button that appeared the day after I brought my balance over $50K.

And I don't currently own any Investor Shares except for VFSVX and the Admiral Shares aren't in the system yet, so I can't try it. (I also own VOHIX/Vanguard Ohio Long-Term Tax Exempt, but they are not labeled as Investor Shares and there are also no Admiral Shares.)

In a taxable account, the conversion allows you to avoid taxes on the sale of the original share class.
I think I've done the exchange to admiral before - but as you said, not a good option in taxable.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by Vulcan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:36 am

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:42 am
At this point, I'm not expecting them to appear today. We might see an announcement today with a launch date. There's no reason it couldn't be this week.
So, filing a prospectus with SEC doesn't mean they are offering the fund - just gives them an option to?
Who's to say it won't be another week - or month - then?

They just plastered the new "we're the best" feature across the home page.
Something tells me they plan to have it there for more than a day.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by lostdog » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:42 am

Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:36 am
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:42 am
At this point, I'm not expecting them to appear today. We might see an announcement today with a launch date. There's no reason it couldn't be this week.
So, filing a prospectus with SEC doesn't mean they are offering the fund - just gives them an option to?
Who's to say it won't be another week - or month - then?

They just plastered the new "we're the best" feature across the home page.
Something tells me they plan to have it there for more than a day.
Exciting stuff until it doesn't happen. =(
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by TropikThunder » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:58 am

cheezit wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:08 am
lostdog wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am
Will the fund automatically convert to admiral shares or do I need to initiate a call with Vanguard to do this for me?
Couldn't you just sell your shares of VFSVX and buy shares of VFSAX? In my brokerage account, there's even a separate link to exchange shares of one Vanguard fund for another without selling and buying.
“Exchanging” fund A for fund B may seem like a single step, but it is in fact two separate transactions: sell fund A and buy fund B. If this is in a taxable account, that can have tax consequences. “Converting” from Investor class to Admiral class however is more of a bookkeeping change by Vanguard and is not a taxable event.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by Vulcan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:29 am

lostdog wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:42 am
Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:36 am
So, filing a prospectus with SEC doesn't mean they are offering the fund - just gives them an option to?
Who's to say it won't be another week - or month - then?

They just plastered the new "we're the best" feature across the home page.
Something tells me they plan to have it there for more than a day.
Exciting stuff until it doesn't happen. =(
I wonder why they even had to file for an extension if they are under no obligation to offer it on the proposed date.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:35 am

Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:29 am
I wonder why they even had to file for an extension if they are under no obligation to offer it on the proposed date.
That is a good question. I was wondering the same thing.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by lostdog » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:59 pm

It will change at some point. Just not when we thought.
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by cheezit » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:20 pm

TropikThunder wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:58 am
cheezit wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:08 am
lostdog wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 am
Will the fund automatically convert to admiral shares or do I need to initiate a call with Vanguard to do this for me?
Couldn't you just sell your shares of VFSVX and buy shares of VFSAX? In my brokerage account, there's even a separate link to exchange shares of one Vanguard fund for another without selling and buying.
“Exchanging” fund A for fund B may seem like a single step, but it is in fact two separate transactions: sell fund A and buy fund B. If this is in a taxable account, that can have tax consequences. “Converting” from Investor class to Admiral class however is more of a bookkeeping change by Vanguard and is not a taxable event.
Interesting that the conversion is considered one atomic transaction but the exchange isn't. Thanks for correcting me on that.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by livesoft » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:32 pm

We learned this week that if one exchanges from Investor to Admiral shares via the Vanguard.com web site, that Vanguard has it programmed to be a conversion and one's transaction will be labeled a conversion and not an exchange.
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:05 pm

livesoft wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:32 pm
We learned this week that if one exchanges from Investor to Admiral shares via the Vanguard.com web site, that Vanguard has it programmed to be a conversion and one's transaction will be labeled a conversion and not an exchange.
That is good to know. Is that discussed in a thread somewhere?

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by livesoft » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:06 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:05 pm
That is good to know. Is that discussed in a thread somewhere?
Yes, somewhere. I believe someone asked about a 1099-B not showing the exchange.
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:09 pm

livesoft wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:06 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:05 pm
That is good to know. Is that discussed in a thread somewhere?
Yes, somewhere. I believe someone asked about a 1099-B not showing the exchange.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=271512&p=4356884

Thanks. :beer I found the thread. I had read and responded to the original post, but I hadn't seen the punchline.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by lassevirensghost » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:30 pm

So what is the likelihood of this not happening? I have a chunk in a tIRA that I would like to be able to make more automated investments into, but was waiting on the release of World Admiral. Right now it is in VT and I have to manually buy it every time.

It isn't a ton of money; you think it would be OK to change it to VTWSX and start auto-investing now? I guess I just need to think of those 9 bps as the convenience fee for being able to do so.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:35 pm

lassevirensghost wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:30 pm
So what is the likelihood of this not happening? I have a chunk in a tIRA that I would like to be able to make more automated investments into, but was waiting on the release of World Admiral. Right now it is in VT and I have to manually buy it every time.

It isn't a ton of money; you think it would be OK to change it to VTWSX and start auto-investing now? I guess I just need to think of those 9 bps as the convenience fee for being able to do so.
It is 100% happening. We just don't know the exact day. Vanguard issued a prior press release announcing the new Admiral Shares. And they need Admiral Shares for these funds now into order to bring them in line with all of the other equity index funds with $3,000 Admiral Shares.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by retiringwhen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:37 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:35 pm
lassevirensghost wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:30 pm
So what is the likelihood of this not happening? I have a chunk in a tIRA that I would like to be able to make more automated investments into, but was waiting on the release of World Admiral. Right now it is in VT and I have to manually buy it every time.

It isn't a ton of money; you think it would be OK to change it to VTWSX and start auto-investing now? I guess I just need to think of those 9 bps as the convenience fee for being able to do so.
It is 100% happening. We just don't know the exact day. Vanguard issued a prior press release announcing the new Admiral Shares. And they need Admiral Shares for these funds now into order to bring them in line with all of the other equity index funds with $3,000 Admiral Shares.
i don't think there was a press release for these funds, just the SEC filing.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:41 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:37 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:35 pm
lassevirensghost wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:30 pm
So what is the likelihood of this not happening? I have a chunk in a tIRA that I would like to be able to make more automated investments into, but was waiting on the release of World Admiral. Right now it is in VT and I have to manually buy it every time.

It isn't a ton of money; you think it would be OK to change it to VTWSX and start auto-investing now? I guess I just need to think of those 9 bps as the convenience fee for being able to do so.
It is 100% happening. We just don't know the exact day. Vanguard issued a prior press release announcing the new Admiral Shares. And they need Admiral Shares for these funds now into order to bring them in line with all of the other equity index funds with $3,000 Admiral Shares.
i don't think there was a press release for these funds, just the SEC filing.
It was in the same November press release as the lowering of Admiral Shares minimums:

https://pressroom.vanguard.com/news/Pre ... 11918.html
Vanguard also filed a preliminary registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission to launch Admiral Shares of five index funds: Vanguard FTSE Social Index Fund, Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund, Vanguard High Dividend Yield Index Fund, Vanguard Long-Term Bond Index Fund, and Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund. The new shares are expected to be available for investment in the first quarter of 2019 and, with the new lowered minimum of $3,000, are expected to deliver an additional $10 million in aggregate savings, based on current total assets.
They only promised the "first quarter."

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by retiringwhen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:45 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:41 pm
retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:37 pm
i don't think there was a press release for these funds, just the SEC filing.
It was in the same November press release as the lowering of Admiral Shares minimums:

https://pressroom.vanguard.com/news/Pre ... 11918.html
Vanguard also filed a preliminary registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission to launch Admiral Shares of five index funds: Vanguard FTSE Social Index Fund, Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund, Vanguard High Dividend Yield Index Fund, Vanguard Long-Term Bond Index Fund, and Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund. The new shares are expected to be available for investment in the first quarter of 2019 and, with the new lowered minimum of $3,000, are expected to deliver an additional $10 million in aggregate savings, based on current total assets.
They only promised the "first quarter."
Thanks, didn't realize it was part of the Admiral minimum lowering announcement.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by lassevirensghost » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:08 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:45 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:41 pm
retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:37 pm
i don't think there was a press release for these funds, just the SEC filing.
It was in the same November press release as the lowering of Admiral Shares minimums:

https://pressroom.vanguard.com/news/Pre ... 11918.html
Vanguard also filed a preliminary registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission to launch Admiral Shares of five index funds: Vanguard FTSE Social Index Fund, Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund, Vanguard High Dividend Yield Index Fund, Vanguard Long-Term Bond Index Fund, and Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund. The new shares are expected to be available for investment in the first quarter of 2019 and, with the new lowered minimum of $3,000, are expected to deliver an additional $10 million in aggregate savings, based on current total assets.
They only promised the "first quarter."
Thanks, didn't realize it was part of the Admiral minimum lowering announcement.
Yep, that answers it for me. Just put in the switch to get into VTWSX and will convert when it is here.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by lostdog » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:09 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:45 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:41 pm
retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:37 pm
i don't think there was a press release for these funds, just the SEC filing.
It was in the same November press release as the lowering of Admiral Shares minimums:

https://pressroom.vanguard.com/news/Pre ... 11918.html
Vanguard also filed a preliminary registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission to launch Admiral Shares of five index funds: Vanguard FTSE Social Index Fund, Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small Cap Index Fund, Vanguard High Dividend Yield Index Fund, Vanguard Long-Term Bond Index Fund, and Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund. The new shares are expected to be available for investment in the first quarter of 2019 and, with the new lowered minimum of $3,000, are expected to deliver an additional $10 million in aggregate savings, based on current total assets.
They only promised the "first quarter."
Thanks, didn't realize it was part of the Admiral minimum lowering announcement.
Very cool.
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 pm

And we have SEC new filings this evening for VFSAX and VTWAX effective today. (My "obvious choices" were correct for both tickers.)

The full prospectuses: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... marvel.htm

The prospectuses are effective today, February 5, 2019.

There are also prospectuses for the other Admiral Shares listed in the November press release: FTSE Social Index, Long-Term Bond Index, and High Dividend Yield Index.
Last edited by jhfenton on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by AlphaLess » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:33 pm

mcraepat9 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:01 pm
Great news - though annoying to see the higher ER for the mutual fund version of VSS.
Small incentive for people to use the ETF.
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by retiringwhen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:35 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 pm
And we have SEC new filings this evening for VFSAX and VTWAX effective today. (My "obvious choices" were correct for both tickers.)

The full prospectuses: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... marvel.htm
This link shows February 7th as the date for Admiral Share availability. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... 002358.txt

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:40 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:35 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 pm
And we have SEC new filings this evening for VFSAX and VTWAX effective today. (My "obvious choices" were correct for both tickers.)

The full prospectuses: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... marvel.htm
This link shows February 7th as the date for Admiral Share availability. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... 002358.txt
Good catch. So we don't have to keep searching Vanguard.com tomorrow. :beer

Here's the more legible HTML version:
Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small-Cap Index Fund
Vanguard FTSE Social Index Fund
Vanguard High Dividend Yield Index Fund
Vanguard Long-Term Bond Index Fund
Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund

(each, a “Fund” and together, the “Funds”)

Supplement to the Prospectuses and Summary Prospectuses for
Investor Shares and Admiral™Shares

Admiral Shares of each Fund will be available for investment effective February 7, 2019.
The Funds’ Admiral Shares have an investment minimum of $3,000.

You may convert your Investor Shares to Admiral Shares at any time by contacting
Vanguard. It is anticipated that the Funds’ outstanding Investor Shares will be
automatically converted to Admiral Shares beginning in April 2019.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by Vulcan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:41 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 pm
And we have SEC new filings this evening for VFSAX and VTWAX effective today. (My "obvious choices" were correct for both tickers.)
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by triceratop » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:05 pm

Do we know yet what the expense ratio will be on the Admiral shares funds, e.g. VFSAX? Or will it still be worthwhile for folks to buy VSS?
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by retiringwhen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:07 pm

triceratop wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:05 pm
Do we know yet what the expense ratio will be on the Admiral shares funds, e.g. VFSAX? Or will it still be worthwhile for folks to buy VSS?
VSS = 0.13%
VFSAX = 0.16%

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by pdavi21 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:59 am

retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:07 pm
triceratop wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:05 pm
Do we know yet what the expense ratio will be on the Admiral shares funds, e.g. VFSAX? Or will it still be worthwhile for folks to buy VSS?
VSS = 0.13%
VFSAX = 0.16%
I refuse to believe it. I am going to will the Admiral class into having a 0.13% ER.
"We spend a great deal of time studying history, which, let's face it, is mostly the history of stupidity." -Stephen Hawking

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:03 am

Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:41 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 pm
And we have SEC new filings this evening for VFSAX and VTWAX effective today. (My "obvious choices" were correct for both tickers.)
Uncanny!
I would like to thank my kindergarten teacher, who taught me "A" for "Admiral."

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by jhfenton » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:26 am

pdavi21 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:59 am
retiringwhen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:07 pm
triceratop wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:05 pm
Do we know yet what the expense ratio will be on the Admiral shares funds, e.g. VFSAX? Or will it still be worthwhile for folks to buy VSS?
VSS = 0.13%
VFSAX = 0.16%
I refuse to believe it. I am going to will the Admiral class into having a 0.13% ER.
Based on the most recent annual report, not yet reflected in a new prospectus, VSS was actually 12 bp last year. Also, based on the recent annual report, VWO (Vanguard EM ETF) was 12 bp, while VEMAX (EM Admiral Shares) was 14 bp. (In last year's prospectus, both VWO and VEMAX were estimated at 14 bp.)

I believe these are going to be part of a broader pattern. I believe that the days of ETF and Admiral Share pricing being the same are ending. I believe the lower-minimum Admiral shares will absorb most of the cost of the elimination of the Investor Shares, and that we'll have to pay a few bps for the convenience of mutual funds. Vanguard ETFs bear the brunt of the price competition, so they will be slightly cheaper.

At least, that's my guess. Vanguard doesn't tell me anything. :beer

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TimeRunner
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by TimeRunner » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:08 am

jhfenton wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:26 am
At least, that's my guess. Vanguard doesn't tell me anything. :beer
Mine too. It also incentivizes existing mutual fund account folks to move over to the VG brokerage platform and convert mutual fund shares to ETFs.
Man assumes more intelligence than dolphins because he achieves so much, while dolphins just have a good time. Dolphins believe they're more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reason. (HGG)

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by Vulcan » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:12 am

jhfenton wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:03 am
Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:41 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 pm
And we have SEC new filings this evening for VFSAX and VTWAX effective today. (My "obvious choices" were correct for both tickers.)
Uncanny!
I would like to thank my kindergarten teacher, who taught me "A" for "Admiral."
I wonder if those that were taught "A" for "Apple" became stock pickers. Or apple pickers?
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by xb7 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:03 pm

Will be interesting to see what the expense ratio is for VTWAX.

For reference, the current expense ratios for VTSAX and VTIAX respectively are 0.04% and 0.11% respectively.
The Total World Stock fund ratio of stocks to bonds is about 56% stocks and 44% bonds, so an appropriately blended expense ratio would be about 0.07%.

If it turns out to be higher, then I would have to ask myself if it's worth it to pay any additional EP for the convenience of the stock side staying in automatic domestic/intl balance.

Well, and whether I could do so on the taxable side without tax consequences. I somehow doubt that Vanguard will take my VTSAX and VTWAX in proper proportion and give me back the right number of VTWAX shares as a "change" rather than a taxable event. And if I'm biasing my IRA to have more bonds than stocks (TBD), then this won't help me much there either.

Still --- interesting stuff, I'm watching with interest too! Thanks to those who have dug up the info on this.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by jhfenton » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:45 pm

xb7 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:03 pm
Will be interesting to see what the expense ratio is for VTWAX.
0.10% for VTWAX, same as for VT.

I prefer to split my US and ex-US anyway, at least right now, and certainly in taxable. It allows for tax-loss harvesting US and ex-US separately.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by lostdog » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:35 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:45 pm
xb7 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:03 pm
Will be interesting to see what the expense ratio is for VTWAX.
0.10% for VTWAX, same as for VT.

I prefer to split my US and ex-US anyway, at least right now, and certainly in taxable. It allows for tax-loss harvesting US and ex-US separately.
You can TLH with ACWI.
I don't invest looking in the rear view mirror and I know absolutely nothing about the future.

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by jhfenton » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 pm

lostdog wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:35 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:45 pm
xb7 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:03 pm
Will be interesting to see what the expense ratio is for VTWAX.
0.10% for VTWAX, same as for VT.

I prefer to split my US and ex-US anyway, at least right now, and certainly in taxable. It allows for tax-loss harvesting US and ex-US separately.
You can TLH with ACWI.
I mean tax-loss harvesting US and ex-US separately as they perform differently. With Total World, gains in the US have at times in the last few years offset losses in ex-US such that you couldn't TLH effectively. Even last year, when both had losses, deep losses in ex-US came earlier in the year, while US lost more in the December crash.

I'm a slicer at heart, though. VSS is my largest holding, so that's the fund I'm really interested in. I included Total World because I know it has a lot of fans too (justifiably so).

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by TimeRunner » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:23 pm

I'd love to see Vanguard put up a Total World ESG Fund. IOW, global weight of:
Vanguard ESG U.S. Stock ETF (ESGV) (around 55%) + Vanguard ESG International Stock ETF (VSGX) (around 45%)
for about the same cost as holding each separately. :idea:
Last edited by TimeRunner on Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Man assumes more intelligence than dolphins because he achieves so much, while dolphins just have a good time. Dolphins believe they're more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reason. (HGG)

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by asset_chaos » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:24 pm

If you google VTWAX, the first thing that comes up is a stub from Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/VTWAX:US that says pending.
Regards, | | Guy

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by jhfenton » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:28 pm

asset_chaos wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:24 pm
If you google VTWAX, the first thing that comes up is a stub from Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/VTWAX:US that says pending.
I see the same "pending" for https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/VFSAX:US

I don't get those hits from a Google search, though. "VFSAX" pulls up hits from the defunct Victory Select Fund that used to have the ticker. For VTWAX I get a couple of false hits and then this thread. :beer Google actually asks me if I mean "VTSAX."

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by Vulcan » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:29 pm

Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:41 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 pm
And we have SEC new filings this evening for VFSAX and VTWAX effective today. (My "obvious choices" were correct for both tickers.)
Uncanny!
Btw, I claim first credit for VTWAX ;)

viewtopic.php?t=264693&start=100#p4270809
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares should launch February 5

Post by jhfenton » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:54 pm

Vulcan wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:29 pm
Vulcan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:41 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:30 pm
And we have SEC new filings this evening for VFSAX and VTWAX effective today. (My "obvious choices" were correct for both tickers.)
Uncanny!
Btw, I claim first credit for VTWAX ;)

viewtopic.php?t=264693&start=100#p4270809
I would expect nothing less. They were the only logical choices. :sharebeer

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by drk » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:26 am

The fund profiles for VTWAX and VFSAX are live.

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Re: Vanguard Total World Stock (VTWAX) and All-World ex-US Small Cap Admiral Shares (VFSAX) available February 7

Post by Vulcan » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:28 am

drk wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:26 am
The fund profiles for VTWAX and VFSAX are live.
Beat me by one minute:)
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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