Fell in Love with Fidelity

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Topic Author
bck63
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bck63 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm

Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.

bloom2708
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:21 pm

What type of bond market index fund did you pick in taxable/brokerage?

What is your top/marginal tax bracket for 2019?

Taxable bonds in a brokerage account may not be the right move in higher tax brackets. Interest is 100% ordinary income. Not enough information to guide you.

The Vanguard funds at Vanguard didn't make you fall in love with them? :(

I think both Fidelity and Vanguard are highly regarded. The new "Zero expense ratio" funds are the latest gimmick to draw funds from Vanguard. It does work. :wink:
"We are not here to please, but to provoke thoughtfulness." --Unknown Boglehead

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southerndoc
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by southerndoc » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:26 pm

Fidelity has been great for me. So much that I'm moving my IRA's to Fidelity (moving Roth, rolling SEP into SE 401(k), moving wife's Roth/trad IRA for non-deductible contributions). Plan on opening an IRA for non-deductible contributions and Roth conversion mid-year.

I've heard some so so things about their checking (cash management) account. I just opened one, but have yet to fund it. It's probably only going to be used for ATM withdrawals as Bank of America loves to charge for every ATM transaction.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by MotoTrojan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:32 pm

southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:26 pm
Fidelity has been great for me. So much that I'm moving my IRA's to Fidelity (moving Roth, rolling SEP into SE 401(k), moving wife's Roth/trad IRA for non-deductible contributions). Plan on opening an IRA for non-deductible contributions and Roth conversion mid-year.

I've heard some so so things about their checking (cash management) account. I just opened one, but have yet to fund it. It's probably only going to be used for ATM withdrawals as Bank of America loves to charge for every ATM transaction.
I’ve dabbled with doing this so my checking could be in a 2%+ money market, but I don’t want to give up my ability to withdraw large dollar amounts or things like quarters in branch (Wells Fargo).

KlangFool
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool

Topic Author
bck63
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bck63 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:42 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool
Hi Klang -

Total Stock Market index, bond market index, and international stock index. The three fund portfolio. Bad idea?

This is in a taxable account, so I will rebalance with new money and dividends.

radiowave
Posts: 1996
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by radiowave » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:43 pm

southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:26 pm
Fidelity has been great for me. So much that I'm moving my IRA's to Fidelity (moving Roth, rolling SEP into SE 401(k), moving wife's Roth/trad IRA for non-deductible contributions). Plan on opening an IRA for non-deductible contributions and Roth conversion mid-year.

I've heard some so so things about their checking (cash management) account. I just opened one, but have yet to fund it. It's probably only going to be used for ATM withdrawals as Bank of America loves to charge for every ATM transaction.
Just an FYI on the Fidelity cash management accounts (CMA). The debit card you will use at ATMs, the good news is Fidelity will reimburse the 3.00 charge and it happens within a couple business days. However you cannot turn off or reduce the daily sales limit on the debit side of the card so that potentially exposes your entire CMA account to fraud if you are using it as a debit card for purchases. One work around is to create a second CMA account and just keep a small amount of money you might use for ATM withdrawals. Of course if you don't use the debit side of the card, that minimizes your exposure. My sister had several thousand dollars withdrawn from her bank account last year when her debit card was hacked and its not the same as a credit card hack where you can stop payment. Once the money is withdrawn from our account on the debit card, even if it's fraud, it could take weeks or months to get it back.
Bogleheads Wiki: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page

veggivet
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Location: New England

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by veggivet » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:43 pm

I moved from TDA to Fido a couple of years ago, and have been very pleased with their level of customer service, website interface, and low cost investment options.
If you watch your pennies, your dollars will take care of themselves.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:59 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool
I agree with the idea here. My belief is that until you have $100k invested, go 100% total US Stock. With Fidelity, use the zero fund FZROX. No minimum, zero ER. I own it along with other Fidelity, Vanguard and Schwab funds and ETFs.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

lukestuckenhymer
Posts: 108
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by lukestuckenhymer » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:59 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds.
Yes, the $0 minimum vs $3,000 minimum is a very good selling point for Fidelity. However, with a taxable account, you will now be receiving periodic LTCG distributions that you wouldn't receive with Vanguard funds. Fidelity funds are inherently more tax inefficient. Were you aware of this?

viewtopic.php?t=214205

KlangFool
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:05 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:42 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool
Hi Klang -

Total Stock Market index, bond market index, and international stock index. The three fund portfolio. Bad idea?

This is in a taxable account, so I will rebalance with new money and dividends.
bck63,

Can you rebalance if the stock market drops 50%? Would you rebalance?

In order to use the 3-funds portfolio, you need to buy, hold, and rebalance.

A) Can you do it?

B) Would you do it?

C) Is it worth the trouble?

Do you have a spreadsheet or something to tell you when you need to rebalance?

KlangFool

noraz123
Posts: 213
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Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by noraz123 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:16 pm

I am quite fond of Fidelity as well. I find their website and customer support superior to Vanguard. While most of my funds have been at Vanguard, I am now moving/creating accounts at Fidelity. Both my wife's and my 401K are there, I moved my HSA (form Lively) to Fidelity, and made our backdoor Roth IRA contributions at Fidelity this year.

As a previous poster mentioned, they now have 0 fee index funds for total market, total bond and total international. Perhaps a marketing gimmick, but one that benefits me.

My eventual plan is to have our tax deferred/tax sheltered accounts at Fidelity and taxable accounts at Vanguard, with the former holding Fidelity funds and the latter holding Vanguard funds. This will help to prevent any issues with wash sales when tax loss harvesting (ie, can turn on automatic dividend/distribution reinvestment without worrying about buying something that you recently harvested).

I've yet to move my checking to Fidelity. I've been happy enough with my local credit union. But that could eventually happen, too.

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southerndoc
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by southerndoc » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:17 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:32 pm
southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:26 pm
Fidelity has been great for me. So much that I'm moving my IRA's to Fidelity (moving Roth, rolling SEP into SE 401(k), moving wife's Roth/trad IRA for non-deductible contributions). Plan on opening an IRA for non-deductible contributions and Roth conversion mid-year.

I've heard some so so things about their checking (cash management) account. I just opened one, but have yet to fund it. It's probably only going to be used for ATM withdrawals as Bank of America loves to charge for every ATM transaction.
I’ve dabbled with doing this so my checking could be in a 2%+ money market, but I don’t want to give up my ability to withdraw large dollar amounts or things like quarters in branch (Wells Fargo).
ATM limit is $1,000 per day. It was originally $500, but I called and asked if they could increase it. They did so without hesitation. The authorization limit on purchases is $16,000. I'm not sure if this will increase as the balance increases.

I'm tempted to open a second cash management account and use it for business since BofA hasn't been so great (started off great, gradually declined). I almost never have cash to deposit. Most of my clients reimburse me via ACH deposit with exception to 2 that send checks. My primary independent contractor job direct deposits monthly. So I really don't have a need for a brick and mortar bank anymore.

MTZ
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by MTZ » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:20 pm

noraz123 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:16 pm
As a previous poster mentioned, they now have 0 fee index funds for total market, total bond and total international. Perhaps a marketing gimmick, but one that benefits me.
sorry but where are you seeing a 0 fee total bond index fund at Fidelity? I don't believe they offer this but would be happy to be wrong..

core4portfolio
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by core4portfolio » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:26 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:21 pm
What type of bond market index fund did you pick in taxable/brokerage?

What is your top/marginal tax bracket for 2019?

Taxable bonds in a brokerage account may not be the right move in higher tax brackets. Interest is 100% ordinary income. Not enough information to guide you.

The Vanguard funds at Vanguard didn't make you fall in love with them? :(

I think both Fidelity and Vanguard are highly regarded. The new "Zero expense ratio" funds are the latest gimmick to draw funds from Vanguard. It does work. :wink:
Yes their gimmicks worked. I bought my left over changes with the FZROX but it issued capital gains of 5 cents in my taxable account.
I never see VTI does this. Iam planning to sell those FZROX and simply kept as cash.
Allocation : 80/20 (80% TSM, 20% TBM) | Need to learn fishing sooner

J295
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by J295 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:29 pm

OP. Good for you! We have been with Fidelity for over 35 years and have been generally quite pleased. Your three funds at Fidelity should provide some flexibility along with your other investments outside of Fidelity to maintain the asset allocations as you desire.

According to the boglehead wiki the three fund portfolio " ... is often recommended for and by Bogleheads attracted by "the majesty of simplicity" (Bogle's phrase), and for those who want finer control and better tax-efficiency than they would get in an all-in-one fund like a target retirement fund."

Best of luck.

core4portfolio
Posts: 246
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by core4portfolio » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:30 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:42 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool

Hi Klang -

Total Stock Market index, bond market index, and international stock index. The three fund portfolio. Bad idea?

This is in a taxable account, so I will rebalance with new money and dividends.
I agree with Klang, rebalance is a issue. Take just Total stock market and kept rest as cash/CD/municipal bonds (instead of bond index fund) in taxable.
Allocation : 80/20 (80% TSM, 20% TBM) | Need to learn fishing sooner

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by UpperNwGuy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:32 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
I'm excited for you. Fidelity has really upped its game in recent months, and I think you're wise to take advantage of the opportunity. Last August everybody was talking about the 0% ERs, but I kept saying that the most noteworthy improvement was doing away with the minimum investment requirement — because it enables people like you to do what you just did. Good luck with your new Fidelity portfolio, and keep us posted on your progress. (By the way, like you, I started out with a three fund portfolio in taxable. I chose not to go the "start-with-one-fund" approach advocated by some — and I'm glad I did.)

Dottie57
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by Dottie57 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:44 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:59 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool
I agree with the idea here. My belief is that until you have $100k invested, go 100% total US Stock. With Fidelity, use the zero fund FZROX. No minimum, zero ER. I own it along with other Fidelity, Vanguard and Schwab funds and ETFs.
Just note that FZROX is based on Fidelity’s own proprietary index and was created in 2017. I prefer FSKAX which follows the long existing Dow Jones Total U.S. market index.

Topic Author
bck63
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bck63 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:56 pm

core4portfolio wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:30 pm
I agree with Klang, rebalance is a issue. Take just Total stock market and kept rest as cash/CD/municipal bonds (instead of bond index fund) in taxable.
Why is rebalancing with this taxable account any different than rebalancing with any taxable account? It seems to me the best way to rebalance a taxable account is with new money and earned dividends.

KlangFool
Posts: 11100
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:02 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:56 pm
core4portfolio wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:30 pm
I agree with Klang, rebalance is a issue. Take just Total stock market and kept rest as cash/CD/municipal bonds (instead of bond index fund) in taxable.
Why is rebalancing with this taxable account any different than rebalancing with any taxable account? It seems to me the best way to rebalance a taxable account is with new money and earned dividends.
bck63,

What do you do when the stock market drops 50%? You have to rebalance now. It cannot be done with new money and earned dividends.

KlangFool

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Vulcan
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by Vulcan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:02 pm

What is Fidelity's equivalent of Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund?
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

JustinR
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by JustinR » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:21 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:42 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool
Hi Klang -

Total Stock Market index, bond market index, and international stock index. The three fund portfolio. Bad idea?

This is in a taxable account, so I will rebalance with new money and dividends.
You're doing fine. Don't sweat what some other people are saying. Keep up the good work with the 3-fund portfolio.
Last edited by JustinR on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
bck63
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bck63 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:02 pm
[
bck63,

What do you do when the stock market drops 50%? You have to rebalance now. It cannot be done with new money and earned dividends.

KlangFool
[/quote]

No big deal at all. My AA goal is 50/50, if stocks drop by 50 percent I invest 100% new money in stocks, for as long as it takes to rebalance. I'm not touching this money for 12-15 years. When things go the other way and stocks rise, I will rebalance by putting more money in bonds.

Let me ask -- how do you balance taxable accounts? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Topic Author
bck63
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bck63 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:36 pm

JustinR wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:21 pm
You're doing fine. Don't sweat what some other people are saying. Keep up the good work with the 3-fund portfolio.
Thank you friend. Reassuring. :-)

KlangFool
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:42 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm

No big deal at all. My AA goal is 50/50, if stocks drop by 50 percent I invest 100% new money in stocks, for as long as it takes to rebalance. I'm not touching this money for 12-15 years. When things go the other way and stocks rise, I will rebalance by putting more money in bonds.

Let me ask -- how do you balance taxable accounts? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
bck63,

<<My AA goal is 50/50, if stocks drop by 50 percent I invest 100% new money in stocks, for as long as it takes to rebalance. >>

Essentially, you do not actively rebalance. The AA could be 100/0 or 0/100 now, you would do nothing.

<<Let me ask -- how do you balance taxable accounts? Any help would be appreciated. >>

I have only one portfolio across all my accounts: Tax-deferred, Taxable, Roth.

I use 5/25 band rebalancing. So, either the asset class is off by 5% of the allocation or off by 25%, I rebalance. I sell stock to buy the bond or I buy the bond to sell the stock.

My AA is 60/40. So, if it is 55/45 or 65/35, I rebalance.

KlangFool

Topic Author
bck63
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bck63 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:59 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:42 pm
bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm

No big deal at all. My AA goal is 50/50, if stocks drop by 50 percent I invest 100% new money in stocks, for as long as it takes to rebalance. I'm not touching this money for 12-15 years. When things go the other way and stocks rise, I will rebalance by putting more money in bonds.

Let me ask -- how do you balance taxable accounts? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
bck63,

<<My AA goal is 50/50, if stocks drop by 50 percent I invest 100% new money in stocks, for as long as it takes to rebalance. >>

Essentially, you do not actively rebalance. The AA could be 100/0 or 0/100 now, you would do nothing.

<<Let me ask -- how do you balance taxable accounts? Any help would be appreciated. >>

I have only one portfolio across all my accounts: Tax-deferred, Taxable, Roth.

I use 5/25 band rebalancing. So, either the asset class is off by 5% of the allocation or off by 25%, I rebalance. I sell stock to buy the bond or I buy the bond to sell the stock.

My AA is 60/40. So, if it is 55/45 or 65/35, I rebalance.

KlangFool
Thank you for the information.

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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:06 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:02 pm
What do you do when the stock market drops 50%? You have to rebalance now. It cannot be done with new money and earned dividends.

KlangFool
One can rebalance in their non-taxable accounts, since it's all just one portfolio.

Like OP I hold 3 funds in my taxable account, and rebalance using my IRA or 401k if I can't do it with new taxable contributions.
Last edited by zaboomafoozarg on Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tibbitts
Posts: 8236
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by tibbitts » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:07 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
I think you're overdoing it with "fall in love"... I have Fidelity along with Vanguard and TIAA, and they all have pros and cons.

As a small investor, it might not be easy to diversify as much as you might like, but it's also not as important.

KlangFool
Posts: 11100
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:22 pm

zaboomafoozarg wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:06 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:02 pm
What do you do when the stock market drops 50%? You have to rebalance now. It cannot be done with new money and earned dividends.

KlangFool
One can rebalance in their non-taxable accounts, since it's all just one portfolio.

Like OP I hold 3 funds in my taxable account, and rebalance using my IRA or 401k if I can't do it with new taxable contributions.
zaboomafoozarg,

If you could rebalance in your non-taxable account, why would you keep a bond fund in your taxable account and pay more taxes?

KlangFool

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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:33 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:22 pm
zaboomafoozarg,

If you could rebalance in your non-taxable account, why would you keep a bond fund in your taxable account and pay more taxes?

KlangFool
Mainly because I didn't want to fill up a lot of my 401k and IRA with bonds, because I need some room in those for my various slice & dice holdings.

I use a tax-exempt bond fund in my taxable account, and have sold some of it in the past to rebalance into VTIAX and VTSAX. I didn't have to pay very much in capital gains when I rebalanced because VWITX price have been roughly flat for the past 10 years.

3-20Characters
Posts: 174
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:38 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm

Let me ask -- how do you balance taxable accounts? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Starting with one fund is a fine idea. If you go with 3 or more, think out how you’re going to rebalance and manage taxes, etc.

What I do is have my taxable as all Total US/Total International + emergency fund/savings as cash/CDs in bank. I have all bond funds and tilt funds in tax advantaged. I manage my AA across all accounts as if it was one pile of money (which it is). The only time I really do anything with taxable Total US/Total International (other than add to the funds) is to tax loss harvest or tax gain harvest.

I mostly use the tax advantaged accounts to rebalance over the entire portfolio (taxable/SEP IRAS//ROTH/HSA). I can buy or sell equities or bonds in tax advantaged as needed to achieve overall desired AA. I like that I don’t have to worry what funds I hold in tax advantaged when it comes to dividends, etc. There are other advantages to this approach as well IMO, but some think otherwise and have made that case as well.

If you haven’t already read this, take a look.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Asset_a ... e_accounts

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EyeYield
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by EyeYield » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:30 pm

radiowave wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:43 pm
southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:26 pm
Fidelity has been great for me. So much that I'm moving my IRA's to Fidelity (moving Roth, rolling SEP into SE 401(k), moving wife's Roth/trad IRA for non-deductible contributions). Plan on opening an IRA for non-deductible contributions and Roth conversion mid-year.

I've heard some so so things about their checking (cash management) account. I just opened one, but have yet to fund it. It's probably only going to be used for ATM withdrawals as Bank of America loves to charge for every ATM transaction.
Just an FYI on the Fidelity cash management accounts (CMA). The debit card you will use at ATMs, the good news is Fidelity will reimburse the 3.00 charge and it happens within a couple business days. However you cannot turn off or reduce the daily sales limit on the debit side of the card so that potentially exposes your entire CMA account to fraud if you are using it as a debit card for purchases. One work around is to create a second CMA account and just keep a small amount of money you might use for ATM withdrawals. Of course if you don't use the debit side of the card, that minimizes your exposure. My sister had several thousand dollars withdrawn from her bank account last year when her debit card was hacked and its not the same as a credit card hack where you can stop payment. Once the money is withdrawn from our account on the debit card, even if it's fraud, it could take weeks or months to get it back.
Are you sure about what I bolded? I am currently looking into a CMA account and spent a long time on the phone this morning with a CMA rep at Fidelity and I was adamant about being able to set the limit on the debit card to $0.00 and only use it for ATM cash withdrawals with a limit of $300 and was told that it wouldn’t be a problem.

I will call again in the morning to verify.
"The stock market is a giant distraction from the business of investing." - Jack Bogle

Ferdinand2014
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Location: New England

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:16 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool
Zero fees and zero minimums to exchange from one fund to another with fidelity.You can do it with a dollar or share amount. Only rule is with frequent trading not allowed with mutual funds. Every 30 days.

sambb
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by sambb » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:19 pm

You also will notice far better IT and customer support e with fidelity

KlangFool
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:21 pm

Ferdinand2014 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:16 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool
Zero fees and zero minimums to exchange from one fund to another with fidelity.You can do it with a dollar or share amount. Only rule is with frequent trading not allowed with mutual funds. Every 30 days.
Ferdinand2014,

Let's assume that is true, why would you put less than a total of 9K in all 3 funds? On top of all other funds in the Vanguard account? This is the kind of stuff that only an accountant would love. The rest of us has a life to live.

One fund is good enough.

KlangFool

radiowave
Posts: 1996
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by radiowave » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:31 pm

EyeYield wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:30 pm
radiowave wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:43 pm
southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:26 pm
Fidelity has been great for me. So much that I'm moving my IRA's to Fidelity (moving Roth, rolling SEP into SE 401(k), moving wife's Roth/trad IRA for non-deductible contributions). Plan on opening an IRA for non-deductible contributions and Roth conversion mid-year.

I've heard some so so things about their checking (cash management) account. I just opened one, but have yet to fund it. It's probably only going to be used for ATM withdrawals as Bank of America loves to charge for every ATM transaction.
Just an FYI on the Fidelity cash management accounts (CMA). The debit card you will use at ATMs, the good news is Fidelity will reimburse the 3.00 charge and it happens within a couple business days. However you cannot turn off or reduce the daily sales limit on the debit side of the card so that potentially exposes your entire CMA account to fraud if you are using it as a debit card for purchases. One work around is to create a second CMA account and just keep a small amount of money you might use for ATM withdrawals. Of course if you don't use the debit side of the card, that minimizes your exposure. My sister had several thousand dollars withdrawn from her bank account last year when her debit card was hacked and its not the same as a credit card hack where you can stop payment. Once the money is withdrawn from our account on the debit card, even if it's fraud, it could take weeks or months to get it back.
Are you sure about what I bolded? I am currently looking into a CMA account and spent a long time on the phone this morning with a CMA rep at Fidelity and I was adamant about being able to set the limit on the debit card to $0.00 and only use it for ATM cash withdrawals with a limit of $300 and was told that it wouldn’t be a problem.

I will call again in the morning to verify.
EyeYield, I had the same conversation with FIdelity CSR about 2 years ago when I set up my CMA and they were certain at that time it was not possible to drop daily sales limit to 0. In two years they may have changed their policy. If you can confirm Fidelity can set up the CMA debit card as ATM only, please let us know.

Thanks
Bogleheads Wiki: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page

Ferdinand2014
Posts: 15
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Location: New England

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:19 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:21 pm
Ferdinand2014 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:16 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm
bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
bck63,

1) As a small investor, why would you buy 3 funds? One fund makes a lot more sense.

2) How are you going to rebalance? Do you have to pay anything to exchange one fund to another?

KlangFool
Zero fees and zero minimums to exchange from one fund to another with fidelity.You can do it with a dollar or share amount. Only rule is with frequent trading not allowed with mutual funds. Every 30 days.
Ferdinand2014,

Let's assume that is true, why would you put less than a total of 9K in all 3 funds? On top of all other funds in the Vanguard account? This is the kind of stuff that only an accountant would love. The rest of us has a life to live.

One fund is good enough.

KlangFool
If it were me, I'd put 100% in a TSM (FZROX or FSKAX) taxable account and leave bonds for tax deferred (if that's an option). I was just answering the second part of question 2 you posed. If there is no tax deferred option (where I would put bonds) or if transferring everything to Fidelity would be the only reason I would have 3 funds all in taxable with that relative amount (<$9000).

Ferdinand2014
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:49 pm
Location: New England

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:25 pm

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
Fidelity has been great for me. Great customer service. Low fees. Good website. I have been with Fidelity since my first 529 account with my first born. 19 years ago.

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beyou
Posts: 2160
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Location: Northeastern US

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by beyou » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:37 pm

People really hate ETFs here ?
No min and no commissions at Vanguard.
Not arguing about tech and customer service, not comparable, but the min is not the reason I would switch.

I will say, I often google for info and led to Fidelity website. Good info there, basic fluff on Vanguard’s site.
I have not switched as I have cap gains to move to any other funds. IRA could be moved, but would rather not have multiple custodians.

Vanguard is tolerable if you don’t ask much of them, and I dont like to make things complicated anyway. No spec lot sales, and not rolling over new IRA to Vanguard ever again.

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nedsaid
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by nedsaid » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:41 pm

I became sold on Fidelity when I executed two rollovers of old workplace savings plans at Fidelity into a Fidelity Rollover IRA. Very easy. Nice website, fee ETF trades except for the $4.95 I spent buying a Wisdom Tree ETF. My IRA there has an average expense ratio of 14 basis points. In addition, I can visit their office downtown. Honestly, I felt like I had died and went to investment heaven.
A fool and his money are good for business.

international001
Posts: 561
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by international001 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:03 am

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:42 pm


bck63,

<<My AA goal is 50/50, if stocks drop by 50 percent I invest 100% new money in stocks, for as long as it takes to rebalance. >>

Essentially, you do not actively rebalance. The AA could be 100/0 or 0/100 now, you would do nothing.

<<Let me ask -- how do you balance taxable accounts? Any help would be appreciated. >>

I have only one portfolio across all my accounts: Tax-deferred, Taxable, Roth.

I use 5/25 band rebalancing. So, either the asset class is off by 5% of the allocation or off by 25%, I rebalance. I sell stock to buy the bond or I buy the bond to sell the stock.

My AA is 60/40. So, if it is 55/45 or 65/35, I rebalance.

KlangFool

I'm missing the point.

If you have a whole portfolio Taxable + tax-sheltered.. what difference does it make if you have one fund for stocks or 20. You can just rebalance on the tax-sheltered side

If you have an isolated Taxable portfolio .. I don't see a big difference between 1 or 2 funds for stocks, specially if you keep adding some decent amount of new money. Most likely, if you have to do a big rebalance is on a recession and all stocks go down, you are going to have to sell some bonds

What did you mean by 25%. I usually rebalance when the difference between what I have and I should have for a particular fund is > 5%

eucalyptus
Posts: 589
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by eucalyptus » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:26 am

Our new cash and some of the old is going to Fidelity. Things I would dread doing at Vanguard can be accomplished easily at Fidelity’s office 2 miles from my home. Vanguard’s brokerage account stupidity caused us great inconvenience and was the last push I needed to seek an alternative. I’ve been very happy.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:35 am

beyou wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:37 pm
People really hate ETFs here ?
Not me.

My taxable at Schwab is almost all SCHB ETF (like total US stock) and at TDAmeritrade, VTI (ETF version of VTSAX). I actually like ETFs more than mutual funds because I can choose the price I buy and sell at, just like a stock. I don't actively trade, but with a market quickly going up and down on a minute by minute basis, I can choose to buy at $63 with a limit order when the stock is sitting at $64 and just wait it out.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

KlangFool
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by KlangFool » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:31 am

international001 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:03 am
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:42 pm


bck63,

<<My AA goal is 50/50, if stocks drop by 50 percent I invest 100% new money in stocks, for as long as it takes to rebalance. >>

Essentially, you do not actively rebalance. The AA could be 100/0 or 0/100 now, you would do nothing.

<<Let me ask -- how do you balance taxable accounts? Any help would be appreciated. >>

I have only one portfolio across all my accounts: Tax-deferred, Taxable, Roth.

I use 5/25 band rebalancing. So, either the asset class is off by 5% of the allocation or off by 25%, I rebalance. I sell stock to buy the bond or I buy the bond to sell the stock.

My AA is 60/40. So, if it is 55/45 or 65/35, I rebalance.

KlangFool

I'm missing the point.

If you have a whole portfolio Taxable + tax-sheltered.. what difference does it make if you have one fund for stocks or 20. You can just rebalance on the tax-sheltered side

If you have an isolated Taxable portfolio .. I don't see a big difference between 1 or 2 funds for stocks, specially if you keep adding some decent amount of new money. Most likely, if you have to do a big rebalance is on a recession and all stocks go down, you are going to have to sell some bonds

What did you mean by 25%. I usually rebalance when the difference between what I have and I should have for a particular fund is > 5%
international001,

<<If you have a whole portfolio Taxable + tax-sheltered.. what difference does it make if you have one fund for stocks or 20. You can just rebalance on the tax-sheltered side>>

1) It is easier to tax loss harvest with fewer stock funds.

2) It is easier to track and manage with fewer stock funds.

<<What did you mean by 25%. I usually rebalance when the difference between what I have and I should have for a particular fund is > 5%>>

I have 10% of my portfolio allocated to small cap value.

A) By 5% rule, I would rebalance when it is 5% or 15%

B) By 25% rule, I would rebalance at 7.5% or 12.5%. Aka off by 25%.

In this case, the 25% rule will trigger first.

KlangFool

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bengal22
Posts: 1504
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Location: Ohio

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bengal22 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:00 am

bck63 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay so I can be a little impulsive, but I opened a Fidelity brokerage account and have fallen in love. I had three goals I wanted to achieve:

-- Invest in bond market index fund
-- increase international stock exposure with an international index fund
-- Expand US stock exposure with a total stock market index fund.

This would be in addition to my current investments in my Vanguard Brokerage account. If I did it with Vanguard, I would have had to either sell other positions or save $9,000 for the new funds. As a small investor that is not an easy task, and I would have had to take from my emergency fund if I wanted to make the purchases right away without selling other positions.

Then I find Fidelity. I found three funds, two with no ER, and all three with no minimum investment. Perfect.

I guess I'm not offering any new information here. I'm just excited and decided to share.
Thanks for sharing. It is great that Fidelity meets your needs. Since you don't have any questions or request for advice I wont give any. I too fund Fidelity a good place to invest and I have about 75% of my portfolio there(25 at Vanguard).
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

User avatar
BoglePaul
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by BoglePaul » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:20 am

Fidelity is taking a tiny loss on their index funds to get you in the door with big plans to capture your money at a later stage in your life. Fidelity has a building full of marketers coming up with schemes to convert you to a profitable customer. Perhaps they will capture your funds when you are older and more vulnerable to advertisements or maybe your wife will inherit your Fidelity account and they will market the benefits of their 'managed portfolios' on the handover. Vanguard has straightforward pricing and for a tiny amount more per year you can create a positive business relationship. Start off doing business with Vanguard, paying for what you get, and as you grow in your career and life you will already be familiar with a good friend. Choose to do business with the Vanguard's of the world.

When I was young the old timers told me to go with Vanguard, however scored by Vanguard's tiered fee levels, I did business with Fidelity. Now that I am older I do business with Vanguard. I wish I had started with Vanguard.

noraz123
Posts: 213
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Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by noraz123 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:53 am

MTZ wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:20 pm
noraz123 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:16 pm
As a previous poster mentioned, they now have 0 fee index funds for total market, total bond and total international. Perhaps a marketing gimmick, but one that benefits me.
sorry but where are you seeing a 0 fee total bond index fund at Fidelity? I don't believe they offer this but would be happy to be wrong..

I am wrong. Fidelity only has zero fee funds for total stock and total international. Sorry for the confusion.

Hiwatter
Posts: 80
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Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by Hiwatter » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:54 am

I've been really impressed with Fidelity's Customer Service... I use the online chat feature on occasion and have had helpful, knowledgeable Reps each time.

In fact, when I escaped Edward Jones a few years ago, Fidelity actually reimbursed me for the $100 "account closure fee" that Edward Jones felt they needed to slap me with on my way out the door.

Fidelity also gave me like 500 free trades, although I really only buy 3 funds there: Total US, Total International, Total US Bond... and I believe those trade for free if you have a Fidelity Account.

Topic Author
bck63
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Fell in Love with Fidelity

Post by bck63 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:49 pm

bengal22 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:00 am
Thanks for sharing. It is great that Fidelity meets your needs. Since you don't have any questions or request for advice I wont give any. I too fund Fidelity a good place to invest and I have about 75% of my portfolio there(25 at Vanguard).
Any advice would be greatly appreciated bengal 22, on using Fidelity, or on the accounts I've chosen. Glad to hear you find Fidelity a good place.

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