OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

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johnsmithsf
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OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by johnsmithsf »

James Cordier was a long-time proponent of using "naked" options to trade in the volatile energy market. In numerous articles and even a book, he touted the potential rewards, telling investors they can produce consistent results.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ed-options
https://seekingalpha.com/author/james-cordier
The Complete Guide to Option Selling: How Selling Options Can Lead to Stellar Returns in Bull and Bear Markets, 3rd Edition 3rd Edition
by James Cordier (Author), Michael Gross (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-O ... 071837620/

Quoting:
On Friday, the founder of OptionSellers.com, James Cordier, apologized in an emotional video to clients that losses from bad bets on energy prices would likely lead to the demise of his firm.
Dressed in a suit and tie while sitting in a brown leather chair, he acknowledged that violent swings in the energy market last week caused the firm severe losses, potentially affecting its 290 clients.

Some clients were left with a negative balance, meaning they are in debt to INTL FCStone Inc., OptionSellers.com’s clearing firm, because of the use of leverage

Evan Torrie, a California-based software engineer, first decided to invest $250,000 with
the firm in 2016 after Mr. Cordier pitched commodity derivatives to him, saying such assets diversified holdings. Mr. Torrie had grown concerned about the length of the stock bull market and was looking to invest outside of equities.
A 2015 marketing document from OptionSellers.com reviewed by the Journal encourages investors to add options-selling to their retirement strategies.
Mr. Torrie, who trades options himself, saw double-digit gains on his investment from its inception to July 2018. Pleased with the returns, he decided to add more money.
But recently, over the course of just a couple of days, he went from having about $470,000 invested with OptionSellers.com to being roughly $150,000 in debt, he said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/energy-los ... 1542709800

https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/hedge ... e-apology/
PFInterest
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by PFInterest »

yup, its amazing how people dont understand math.
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johnsmithsf
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by johnsmithsf »

Interestingly, he pitched his investing as "conservative"...

“Our goal is to take an aggressive vehicle and manage it conservatively.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11- ... rt-squeeze
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ResearchMed
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by ResearchMed »

johnsmithsf wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:46 pm Interestingly, he pitched his investing as "conservative"...

“Our goal is to take an aggressive vehicle and manage it conservatively.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11- ... rt-squeeze
That sort of sounds like, "We will take a large sum and make it small."

RM
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by Shallowpockets »

Most people don't understand options. And naked options, well that is just asking for it.
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by grok87 »

johnsmithsf wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:29 pm James Cordier was a long-time proponent of using "naked" options to trade in the volatile energy market. In numerous articles and even a book, he touted the potential rewards, telling investors they can produce consistent results.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ed-options
https://seekingalpha.com/author/james-cordier
The Complete Guide to Option Selling: How Selling Options Can Lead to Stellar Returns in Bull and Bear Markets, 3rd Edition 3rd Edition
by James Cordier (Author), Michael Gross (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-O ... 071837620/

Quoting:
On Friday, the founder of OptionSellers.com, James Cordier, apologized in an emotional video to clients that losses from bad bets on energy prices would likely lead to the demise of his firm.
Dressed in a suit and tie while sitting in a brown leather chair, he acknowledged that violent swings in the energy market last week caused the firm severe losses, potentially affecting its 290 clients.

Some clients were left with a negative balance, meaning they are in debt to INTL FCStone Inc., OptionSellers.com’s clearing firm, because of the use of leverage

Evan Torrie, a California-based software engineer, first decided to invest $250,000 with
the firm in 2016 after Mr. Cordier pitched commodity derivatives to him, saying such assets diversified holdings. Mr. Torrie had grown concerned about the length of the stock bull market and was looking to invest outside of equities.
A 2015 marketing document from OptionSellers.com reviewed by the Journal encourages investors to add options-selling to their retirement strategies.
Mr. Torrie, who trades options himself, saw double-digit gains on his investment from its inception to July 2018. Pleased with the returns, he decided to add more money.
But recently, over the course of just a couple of days, he went from having about $470,000 invested with OptionSellers.com to being roughly $150,000 in debt, he said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/energy-los ... 1542709800

https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/hedge ... e-apology/
apparently it was marketed as a hedge fund. with a hedge fund you normally can't lose more than you put in
RIP Mr. Bogle.
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johnsmithsf
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by johnsmithsf »

Quote from one of his clients on Amazon review of his book.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... 0071837620

FearFact
1.0 out of 5 starsDo Not Buy, Unless you plan on burning the book. I lost $500k+
November 19, 2018
Format: Kindle Edition
I bought this book, and read it, and invested in the investing fund that the author had $70+ million under management.

Which is now bankrupt!!!! I have lost all my money!!!. Which is over $500,000+ and I OWE MONEY, BLOODY CHRIST. AUTHOR NEEDS TO BE PUT IN JAIL. I READ HIS BOOK, INVESTED, BELIEVED IN HIM, SEEMS LIKE THIS ALL HOCUS POCUS, MAGIC AND GAMES.

I HAVE LOST EVERYTHING!!! and NOW AM DEBITED FOR MORE THAN I INVESTED.

RUN RUN RUN. RUN RUN. Don't buy the book like me. RUN RUN RUN. I lost most my money. RUN RUN. BOOK WILL MAKE YOU HOMELESS, AND HAVE CREDITORS CHASING YOU
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by bluquark »

Odds are that's a hoax review. This collapse got a lot of press and any joker could've written that. If it was a positive review from a year ago amended to that, it would be more plausible.
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columbia
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by columbia »

Shallowpockets wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:54 pm Most people don't understand options. And naked options, well that is just asking for it.
I definitely don’t understand them and just try to keep things as dumb (see: simple) as possible.
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JoMoney
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by JoMoney »

johnsmithsf wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:29 pm... Mr. Cordier pitched commodity derivatives to him, saying such assets diversified holdings...
It's amazing how frequently investments with more risk, or of dubious investment potential are sold as being great ways to "diversify".
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by nisiprius »

This isn't an apology:
Cordier explained that volatility in the oil and natural gas markets created “a rogue wave I was unable to navigate” and that “this rogue wave capsized our boat.”
This is a classic example of a non-apology apology. A non-apology apology occurs when someone uses the word "sorry" merely to indicate that they sympathize with you for the devastating injury you have suffered--while taking no responsibility, assuming no blame, and saying the injury was not caused by them, but by some event that nobody could possibly have anticipated.

It's a fairly common pattern for advocates of risky investments: when the risk shows up, claim that it shouldn't count because it was so anomalous.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
hdas
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by hdas »

Well, Mr. Cordier combined two explosive components. Short options naked + natural gas, which is the crack cocaine of speculators

Up 50% in 9 days!

Image
....
CedarWaxWing
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by CedarWaxWing »

ResearchMed wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:53 pm
johnsmithsf wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:46 pm Interestingly, he pitched his investing as "conservative"...

“Our goal is to take an aggressive vehicle and manage it conservatively.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11- ... rt-squeeze
That sort of sounds like, "We will take a large sum and make it small."

RM
Except for the cut he took....
CedarWaxWing
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by CedarWaxWing »

johnsmithsf wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:16 pm Quote from one of his clients on Amazon review of his book.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... 0071837620

FearFact
1.0 out of 5 starsDo Not Buy, Unless you plan on burning the book. I lost $500k+
November 19, 2018
Format: Kindle Edition
I bought this book, and read it, and invested in the investing fund that the author had $70+ million under management.

Which is now bankrupt!!!! I have lost all my money!!!. Which is over $500,000+ and I OWE MONEY, BLOODY CHRIST. AUTHOR NEEDS TO BE PUT IN JAIL. I READ HIS BOOK, INVESTED, BELIEVED IN HIM, SEEMS LIKE THIS ALL HOCUS POCUS, MAGIC AND GAMES.

I HAVE LOST EVERYTHING!!! and NOW AM DEBITED FOR MORE THAN I INVESTED.

RUN RUN RUN. RUN RUN. Don't buy the book like me. RUN RUN RUN. I lost most my money. RUN RUN. BOOK WILL MAKE YOU HOMELESS, AND HAVE CREDITORS CHASING YOU
Might be a good time to get a deal on the used book... for the wood stove.
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by CedarWaxWing »

nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:56 pm This isn't an apology:
Cordier explained that volatility in the oil and natural gas markets created “a rogue wave I was unable to navigate” and that “this rogue wave capsized our boat.”
This is a classic example of a non-apology apology. A non-apology apology occurs when someone uses the word "sorry" merely to indicate that they sympathize with you for the devastating injury you have suffered--while taking no responsibility, assuming no blame, and saying the injury was not caused by them, but by some event that nobody could possibly have anticipated.

It's a fairly common pattern for advocates of risky investments: when the risk shows up, claim that it shouldn't count because it was so anomalous.
Total agreement. Why do intelligent people fall for such schemes?
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by columbia »

JoMoney wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:39 pm
johnsmithsf wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:29 pm... Mr. Cordier pitched commodity derivatives to him, saying such assets diversified holdings...
It's amazing how frequently investments with more risk, or of dubious investment potential are sold as being great ways to "diversify".
:wink:
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by unclescrooge »

nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:56 pm This isn't an apology:
Cordier explained that volatility in the oil and natural gas markets created “a rogue wave I was unable to navigate” and that “this rogue wave capsized our boat.”
This is a classic example of a non-apology apology. A non-apology apology occurs when someone uses the word "sorry" merely to indicate that they sympathize with you for the devastating injury you have suffered--while taking no responsibility, assuming no blame, and saying the injury was not caused by them, but by some event that nobody could possibly have anticipated.

It's a fairly common pattern for advocates of risky investments: when the risk shows up, claim that it shouldn't count because it was so anomalous.
Is it anomalous if it's expected?

Wasn't this trade the same widow-maker trade that sunk Amaranth?
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by Cycle »

For every loser there is a winner. congratulations to the other half of the trade, and to the 290 losers, my condolences. I just hope to be halfway between minus expenses.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by MarkBarb »

CedarWaxWing wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:27 pm
nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:56 pm This isn't an apology:
Cordier explained that volatility in the oil and natural gas markets created “a rogue wave I was unable to navigate” and that “this rogue wave capsized our boat.”
This is a classic example of a non-apology apology. A non-apology apology occurs when someone uses the word "sorry" merely to indicate that they sympathize with you for the devastating injury you have suffered--while taking no responsibility, assuming no blame, and saying the injury was not caused by them, but by some event that nobody could possibly have anticipated.

It's a fairly common pattern for advocates of risky investments: when the risk shows up, claim that it shouldn't count because it was so anomalous.
Total agreement. Why do intelligent people fall for such schemes?
Because they are greedy. When I watch American Greed with my kids, I often remind the that the criminal was a greedy criminal, but the victims are often greedy victims who think they can get much better returns than normal.
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by AlphaLess »

johnsmithsf wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:46 pm Interestingly, he pitched his investing as "conservative"...

“Our goal is to take an aggressive vehicle and manage it conservatively.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11- ... rt-squeeze
It's just like other conservative strategies lately.
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by AlphaLess »

CedarWaxWing wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:27 pm Total agreement. Why do intelligent people fall for such schemes?
Define, 'intelligent people'.
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by KyleAAA »

CedarWaxWing wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:27 pm
nisiprius wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:56 pm This isn't an apology:
Cordier explained that volatility in the oil and natural gas markets created “a rogue wave I was unable to navigate” and that “this rogue wave capsized our boat.”
This is a classic example of a non-apology apology. A non-apology apology occurs when someone uses the word "sorry" merely to indicate that they sympathize with you for the devastating injury you have suffered--while taking no responsibility, assuming no blame, and saying the injury was not caused by them, but by some event that nobody could possibly have anticipated.

It's a fairly common pattern for advocates of risky investments: when the risk shows up, claim that it shouldn't count because it was so anomalous.
Total agreement. Why do intelligent people fall for such schemes?
Because they have no expertise in finance.
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

Post by AlphaLess »

grok87 wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:02 pm apparently it was marketed as a hedge fund. with a hedge fund you normally can't lose more than you put in
I don't know about that. If the hedge fund is setup as partnership, there might be losses beyond invested amount.

Also, he could have setup segregated accounts, and traded for each member, using the same strategy, with proportionate allocation.
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Re: OptionSellers.com FAQ “Have I lost all the money in my account, then?” “Yes.” You also have a negative balance

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