?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?[Yes, after a few weeks they are now appearing at other brokerages.]

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:47 pm

Update (14 Dec 2018)
It took a few weeks, but now ETrade, Schwab and Merrill Edge have Vanguard Admiral shares.
At ETrade they are No Transaction Fee whereas Schwab and Merrill Edge charge their usual mutual fund fees.
Obviously the logical place to buy Vanguard Admiral shares is Vanguard itself, but sometimes you end up at another brokerage chasing a brokerage bonus or for other reasons.

-----------------------------------------------------

Splitting off from main thread "Vanguard lowering Admiral level to $3,000?!" ...
https://investornews.vanguard/our-index ... en-better/
viewtopic.php?p=4219864#p4219864
"Our Admiral Shares were previously available to investors with over $10,000 per fund. Now you’ll only need $3,000 to take advantage of the low expense ratios Admiral Shares offer. In turn, we’re eliminating higher-cost Investor Shares of those same index funds for individual investors.*
*Investor Shares will still be used in certain situations, such as in retirement plans and fund-of-funds investments."

There is the specific question of what will happen at other brokerages (the topic of this thread).

Will Vanguard Admiral shares be available for purchase at other brokerages?
Will Vanguard Investor shares converted to Admiral shares at other brokerages? (And would it be actually be a conversion or an exchange with tax consequences?)

It's not clear what would be the motivations for Vanguard to allow or disallow this, and/or for various brokerages to accommodate this, so there is may be speculation for a while until more concrete information comes out. This situation could be different at "neutral" brokerages like Merrill Edge, ETrade, TDA etc, than it is at big fund issuers like Fidelity and Schwab.

This thread can also be for gathering datapoints if anyone sees anything.

I've checked at Merrill Edge, ETrade and Fidelity, and Admiral shares are not (yet) available for purchase, but don't know about others.

At some places (e.g. Merrill Edge and ETrade but not Fidelity) it's been possible to transfer in, hold, reinvest Divs/CGs, but not buy more Admiral shares, so there doesn't seem to be any technical obstacle to them being allowed for purchase/exchange/conversion.

ETrade currently has no transaction fee on many Vanguard funds (but not Admiral class) so one would think they might be keen to offer Admiral shares if Vanguard would let them.

Any insights or datapoints?

F150HD · Post by **F150HD** » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:58 pm

Thats a looming question I have. Tax deferred at Fidelity, want to add a VG fund so waiting to see what shakes out here.

Way things are going, I am wondering (?) if the "Admiral" tag may disappear as share classes are disappearing? (at least Investor and Admiral anyway)

VG should be more clear about where this is all going (unless I missed it somewhere)

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:38 pm

F150HD wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:58 pm
VG should be more clear about where this is all going (unless I missed it somewhere)

They may be working on it (the "other brokerage" issue) now. The other brokerages may have only found out about all this when the rest of us did. I don't know how long it would take for the other brokerage to change their fund lineup (days? weeks?).

But I also can't figure what Vanguard and the various brokerages would want to do with this.

F150HD · Post by **F150HD** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:31 am

b0B wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:38 pm

F150HD wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:58 pm
VG should be more clear about where this is all going (unless I missed it somewhere)
They may be working on it (the "other brokerage" issue) now. The other brokerages may have only found out about all this when the rest of us did. I don't know how long it would take for the other brokerage to change their fund lineup (days? weeks?).

But I also can't figure what Vanguard and the various brokerages would want to do with this.

There has to be a protocol for it, I just wonder why it hasn't been more transparent (?) unless it differs from brokerage to brokerage in tax-deferred (or even taxable). I don't spend tons of time on the VG site 'reading' about stuff like this so maybe someone somewhere already knows, will post, and will defeat the purpose of this thread. One can only hope this shakes out over the next few weeks.

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:39 pm

The Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at ETrade now say "Open To Existing Shareholders Only" and if you try to buy it, it says "The fund you've selected is closed to new investors." No sign of Admiral shares.

F150HD · Post by **F150HD** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:44 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:39 pm
The Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at ETrade now say "Open To Existing Shareholders Only" and if you try to buy it, it says "The fund you've selected is closed to new investors." No sign of Admiral shares.

well thats interesting.....please do post an update if in a month or few this somehow changes. Thanks.

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:02 pm

Similarly, the Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at Fidelity now say "Closed to new investors" and if you try to buy it, it says "The mutual fund you’re trying to buy is closed to new investments."

am · Post by am » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:07 pm

Couldn’t buy total int or total stock this am at chase you invest. The admiral shares weren’t available and the investor shares were closed. Maybe temporary?

arf30 · Post by **arf30** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:10 pm

I'm curious if anyone's called Vanguard to ask what's going to happen to their investor shares at 3rd party brokerages.

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:14 pm

However at Merrill Edge, the Vanguard Investor class fund info pages show no sign of change, and it will let you place an order to buy it (though it may not execute). I suspect that all this shows is that Merrill Edge is not up to date.

smectym · Post by **smectym** » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:28 am

Yes I went through the exercise in my Vanguard account. I tried to buy $3,000 VBINX and got a message that it was closed. Then tried a $3000 buy for VBIAX (the Admiral class) and that was approved.

The democratization of lower ER can only be cheered. But let’s see whether Vanguard will eventually introduce a “Generalissimo” share class to assuage those who like to receive recognition and a kickback for...well, just for having a hell of a lot of MONEY

Smectym

Turbo29 · Post by **Turbo29** » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:08 pm

"Generalisimo Maximo"

F150HD · Post by **F150HD** » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:44 pm

Turbo29 wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:08 pm
"Generalisimo Maximo"

?

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:44 am

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:39 pm
The Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at ETrade now say "Open To Existing Shareholders Only" and if you try to buy it, it says "The fund you've selected is closed to new investors." No sign of Admiral shares.

Okay this is a bit weird.
ETrade has added exactly one Admiral share class fund
https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks ... mbol=VTIAX
At that link is says
"Transaction Fee: No" (That's good)
"Availability: Open To New Investors" (This is new.)
"Initial Investment: $0" (That's surely wrong, should be $3k$, so maybe whole page is a glitch.)
If you change ticker VTIAX in the link to any other Admiral share class fund ticker, then you get a page saying
"This fund is not available for purchase through E*TRADE Securities." e.g.
https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks ... mbol=VTSAX

Nate79 · Post by **Nate79** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:28 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:44 am

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:39 pm
The Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at ETrade now say "Open To Existing Shareholders Only" and if you try to buy it, it says "The fund you've selected is closed to new investors." No sign of Admiral shares.
Okay this is a bit weird.
ETrade has added exactly one Admiral share class fund
https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks ... mbol=VTIAX
At that link is says
"Transaction Fee: No" (That's good)
"Availability: Open To New Investors" (This is new.)
"Initial Investment: $0" (That's surely wrong, should be $3k$, so maybe whole page is a glitch.)
If you change ticker VTIAX in the link to any other Admiral share class fund ticker, then you get a page saying
"This fund is not available for purchase through E*TRADE Securities." e.g.
https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks ... mbol=VTSAX

The link now shows a min investment of $3k. It does look like it is available (I have an etrade account but no funds to test a trade).

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:08 am

^ Things keep changing on the website. It's not clear what the end result will be.

radiowave · Post by **radiowave** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:16 am

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:14 pm
However at Merrill Edge, the Vanguard Investor class fund info pages show no sign of change, and it will let you place an order to buy it (though it may not execute). I suspect that all this shows is that Merrill Edge is not up to date.

What does ME charge for purchasing Vanguard mutual funds?

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:23 am

radiowave wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:16 am

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:14 pm
However at Merrill Edge, the Vanguard Investor class fund info pages show no sign of change, and it will let you place an order to buy it (though it may not execute). I suspect that all this shows is that Merrill Edge is not up to date.
What does ME charge for purchasing Vanguard mutual funds?

About $20 and it's only Investor shares. Merrill Edge is not good for mutual funds. People here (including me) use it for Preferred Rewards and Brokerage Bonuses. If they like ETFs and/or transact little, then they're fine with it. I prefer mutual funds, and sometimes I have to transact, so it's less than ideal.

SpringMan · Post by **SpringMan** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:37 am

Keep in mind the new lower limit for admiral shares does not apply to actively managed funds which still require 50K. As far as I know admiral shares of actively managed funds are only available through Vanguard, maybe possibly some 401(k)s. Fidelity, for example, won't allow VWIAX but will allow VWINX with a transaction fee.

G-Force · Post by **G-Force** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:23 pm

I just tried to purchase VGTSX and VTSAX in a JP morgan you invest account and was not allowed to purchase either. VGTSX was previously allowed and is on their official list of mutual funds available in the account. I hope they add admiral shares soon.

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:44 pm

From another thread

acanthurus wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:30 pm
Vanguard Admiral shares were available for purchase at Schwab today (VTSAX, VTIAX, VBILX, etc). $3K min. They previously were available for "institutional" customers only, availability now says "open" instead.

So maybe it'll be starting elsewhere too. We'll see.

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:31 pm

It appears that ETrade does have Vanguard Admiral shares now (and that they're No Transaction Fee).

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:05 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:44 pm
From another thread
acanthurus wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:30 pm
Vanguard Admiral shares were available for purchase at Schwab today (VTSAX, VTIAX, VBILX, etc). $3K min. They previously were available for "institutional" customers only, availability now says "open" instead.
So maybe it'll be starting elsewhere too. We'll see.

b0B wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:31 pm
It appears that ETrade does have Vanguard Admiral shares now (and that they're No Transaction Fee).

And now Merrill Edge has Vanguard Admiral shares too.

At ETrade they are No Transaction Fee whereas Schwab and Merrill Edge charge their usual mutual fund fees.

arf30 · Post by **arf30** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:09 pm

I wonder if Chase has them yet.

whodidntante · Post by **whodidntante** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:24 pm

It's a shame that fewer people will need to experience vanguard customer service now.

acanthurus · Post by **acanthurus** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:01 pm

removed

jeffyscott · Post by **jeffyscott** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:03 pm

acanthurus wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:01 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:05 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:44 pm
From another thread
acanthurus wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:30 pm
Vanguard Admiral shares were available for purchase at Schwab today (VTSAX, VTIAX, VBILX, etc). $3K min. They previously were available for "institutional" customers only, availability now says "open" instead.
So maybe it'll be starting elsewhere too. We'll see.

b0B wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:31 pm
It appears that ETrade does have Vanguard Admiral shares now (and that they're No Transaction Fee).
And now Merrill Edge has Vanguard Admiral shares too.

At ETrade they are No Transaction Fee whereas Schwab and Merrill Edge charge their usual mutual fund fees.
Schwab will waive the fees if you ask nicely (and have a large enough balance). I've confirmed this on my account - the trade ticket says $0 purchase fee.

Yes, not for Vanguard, but I got a waiver when I moved assets there. I had asked if "free trades" included MF transaction fees and rep said no, but he'd waive it.

I was not sure if it was a one time deal or not, have not had a reason to request again.

nisiprius · Post by **nisiprius** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:46 pm

I've never known what business magic lies behind mutual funds being offered by brokerages. I'd like to know. It is obviously some kind of case-by-case business deal between brokerage and mutual fund company.

Back in the 1980s when stock certificates were scratched into clay tablets with chipped flint, you couldn't get a mutual fund at a brokerage. You had to have an account directly with the mutual fund company. Schwab changed that in 1992 with their "OneSource mutual fund supermarket" and other brokerages followed quickly, but I don't know what or how they did it. Obviously money is changing hands between the mutual fund company and the brokerage.

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:23 pm

nisiprius wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:46 pm
I've never known what business magic lies behind mutual funds being offered by brokerages. I'd like to know. It is obviously some kind of case-by-case business deal between brokerage and mutual fund company.

Back in the 1980s when stock certificates were scratched into clay tablets with chipped flint, you couldn't get a mutual fund at a brokerage. You had to have an account directly with the mutual fund company. Schwab changed that in 1992 with their "OneSource mutual fund supermarket" and other brokerages followed quickly, but I don't know what or how they did it. Obviously money is changing hands between the mutual fund company and the brokerage.

I don't know. I believe Vanguard says they won't pay the brokerages, so then the brokerages have to decide whether to put a "major brand" on their shelves anyway. On the other hand, Vanguard probably realized they needed to make Admiral class shares more widely available to hold onto AUM.

fennewaldaj · Post by **fennewaldaj** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:47 am

I am still curious what is going to happen to the 2 vanguard investor share funds I have in my fidelity 403b/401a/457 brokerage link. Like will I have to pay the transaction fee again to switch them? Will I be able to add money to my existing position?

jeffyscott · Post by **jeffyscott** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:24 am

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:05 pm
At ETrade they are No Transaction Fee whereas Schwab and Merrill Edge charge their usual mutual fund fees.

But in Schwab's case they have their own index funds with lower expenses and lower minimums, at least in the major categories.

acanthurus · Post by **acanthurus** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:51 am

removed

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:50 am

am wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:07 pm
Couldn’t buy total int or total stock this am at chase you invest. The admiral shares weren’t available and the investor shares were closed. Maybe temporary?

arf30 wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:09 pm
I wonder if Chase has them yet.

Anyone have an update about this location?

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:51 am

acanthurus wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:51 am

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:05 pm
And now Merrill Edge has Vanguard Admiral shares too.

At ETrade they are No Transaction Fee whereas Schwab and Merrill Edge charge their usual mutual fund fees.
The E*TRADE trade ticket I pulled up listed a $50 fee if sold within 90 days. Otherwise yes it appeared to me to be free to buy and sell by default at Etrade.

Correct. You need to be sure you won't want to sell within 90 days to avoid that hefty penalty. I ended up at ETrade only due to chasing brokerage bonuses. I regard having NTF Vanguard Admiral shares (albeit with 90 day fee) as lowering the opportunity cost of being there. (Obviously Vanguard is a better place to use Admiral shares.)

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:42 pm

I bought some Vanguard Admiral shares at Merrill Edge and was not charged the expected $19.95 Transaction Fee.

The order did say $0 Transaction Fee, but their mutual fund list does not classify any Vanguard funds as No Transaction Fee, so I'm not sure what's happening.

hotpancakes · Post by **hotpancakes** » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:06 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:42 pm
I bought some Vanguard Admiral shares at Merrill Edge and was not charged the expected $19.95 Transaction Fee.

The order did say $0 Transaction Fee, but their mutual fund list does not classify any Vanguard funds as No Transaction Fee, so I'm not sure what's happening.

I noticed the same thing. I screenshotted the preview page just in case.

fedfire · Post by **fedfire** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:57 am

Just a heads up for Chase You Invest users. It looks like they added the Vanguard admiral funds as well as a bunch of Fidelity/Schwab funds this week.

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:52 pm

hotpancakes wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:06 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:42 pm
I bought some Vanguard Admiral shares at Merrill Edge and was not charged the expected $19.95 Transaction Fee.

The order did say $0 Transaction Fee, but their mutual fund list does not classify any Vanguard funds as No Transaction Fee, so I'm not sure what's happening.
I noticed the same thing. I screenshotted the preview page just in case.

I've made a couple of fee free transactions with Vanguard Admiral shares at Merrill Edge.

However, it now appears the fee ($19.95, or double for an exchange) is back. You can see this if you "preview" an order without submitting it - it tells you the Transaction Fee which was $0.00 for a while, but is now back to $19.95.

In Merrill Edge's mutual fund screener, the Vanguard funds were always listed as having a fee, but for some reason there was no fee actually charged for a month or two. Not sure why. (By contrast, ETrade is fee free.)

Huygens · Post by **Huygens** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:58 pm

I recently enrolled in Brokerage Link for my Fidelity-administered 401(k) plan with the intention of purchasing Vanguard mutual funds. This morning I attempted to purchase the Admiral share class of two funds. However, one had a $75 purchase fee and another was unavailable to retail investors — I received an error message about the fund only being available to advisers. I’m curious if others have seem the same with Fidelity or if this an issue with my 401(k) plan and Brokerage Link. (Purchasing Vanguard ETFs, in comparison, incurred a $4.95 commission.)

Turbo29 · Post by **Turbo29** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:10 am

Admiral shares are at E*trade with no transaction fee.

G-Force · Post by **G-Force** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:41 am

fedfire wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:57 am
Just a heads up for Chase You Invest users. It looks like they added the Vanguard admiral funds as well as a bunch of Fidelity/Schwab funds this week.

How can you tell that they added new funds? I'm still seeing the old August 2018 PDF that lists their available mutual funds.

SpringMan · Post by **SpringMan** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:13 am

duplicate

SpringMan · Post by **SpringMan** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:14 am

Vanguard's recent changes eliminating the 10K minimum for admiral shares of index funds is the reason. I doubt if any brokerages, other than Vanguard, are adding admiral shares of actively managed funds. This has been a issue for Fidelity for as long as I can remember, no availability of VWIAX etc.

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:41 pm

fedfire wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:57 am
Just a heads up for Chase You Invest users. It looks like they added the Vanguard admiral funds as well as a bunch of Fidelity/Schwab funds this week.

What are the fees?

b0B · Post by **b0B** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:42 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:52 pm

hotpancakes wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:06 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:42 pm
I bought some Vanguard Admiral shares at Merrill Edge and was not charged the expected $19.95 Transaction Fee.

The order did say $0 Transaction Fee, but their mutual fund list does not classify any Vanguard funds as No Transaction Fee, so I'm not sure what's happening.
I noticed the same thing. I screenshotted the preview page just in case.
I've made a couple of fee free transactions with Vanguard Admiral shares at Merrill Edge.

However, it now appears the fee ($19.95, or double for an exchange) is back. You can see this if you "preview" an order without submitting it - it tells you the Transaction Fee which was $0.00 for a while, but is now back to $19.95.

In Merrill Edge's mutual fund screener, the Vanguard funds were always listed as having a fee, but for some reason there was no fee actually charged for a month or two. Not sure why. (By contrast, ETrade is fee free.)

Can anyone else with a Merrill Edge account confirm if you see the same thing or not?

Retired1809 · Post by **Retired1809** » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:33 pm

TIAA brokerage has lots of Vanguard Admiral class funds.

MA405 · Post by **MA405** » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:08 pm

b0B wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:41 pm

fedfire wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:57 am
Just a heads up for Chase You Invest users. It looks like they added the Vanguard admiral funds as well as a bunch of Fidelity/Schwab funds this week.
What are the fees?

Just tried to make test trades orders for VTSAX and for Schwab Total Market fund. Both available. No fees. Did not submit the orders.

fedfire · Post by **fedfire** » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:19 am

G-Force wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:41 am

fedfire wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:57 am
Just a heads up for Chase You Invest users. It looks like they added the Vanguard admiral funds as well as a bunch of Fidelity/Schwab funds this week.
How can you tell that they added new funds? I'm still seeing the old August 2018 PDF that lists their available mutual funds.

I use the "Find Investments" tool they have on the web interface. If you select the low expense ratio option and sort them by the expenses you can usually find the best funds at the top.

jeh08016 · Post by **jeh08016** » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:52 am

JP Morgan customer service has been no help. I called and asked if you're able to invest in Vanguard Admiral Funds through YouInvest. Spoke to multiple people who could only reference a fund list dated last August and told me no, after initially saying absolutely. A manager suggested I open an account to see for myself. If anyone has any info I'd appreciate it. Interested in VTSAX and VTIAX.

arf30 · Post by **arf30** » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:18 pm

You invest is brand new and nobody at Chase seems trained on it yet, the best way to find out about it is to open a free account and play with it.