?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

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b0B
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?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:47 pm

Splitting off from main thread "Vanguard lowering Admiral level to $3,000?!" ...
https://investornews.vanguard/our-index ... en-better/
viewtopic.php?p=4219864#p4219864
"Our Admiral Shares were previously available to investors with over $10,000 per fund. Now you’ll only need $3,000 to take advantage of the low expense ratios Admiral Shares offer. In turn, we’re eliminating higher-cost Investor Shares of those same index funds for individual investors.*
*Investor Shares will still be used in certain situations, such as in retirement plans and fund-of-funds investments."

There is the specific question of what will happen at other brokerages (the topic of this thread).

Will Vanguard Admiral shares be available for purchase at other brokerages?
Will Vanguard Investor shares converted to Admiral shares at other brokerages? (And would it be actually be a conversion or an exchange with tax consequences?
)

It's not clear what would be the motivations for Vanguard to allow or disallow this, and/or for various brokerages to accommodate this, so there is may be speculation for a while until more concrete information comes out. This situation could be different at "neutral" brokerages like Merrill Edge, ETrade, TDA etc, than it is at big fund issuers like Fidelity and Schwab.

This thread can also be for gathering datapoints if anyone sees anything.

I've checked at Merrill Edge, ETrade and Fidelity, and Admiral shares are not (yet) available for purchase, but don't know about others.

At some places (e.g. Merrill Edge and ETrade but not Fidelity) it's been possible to transfer in, hold, reinvest Divs/CGs, but not buy more Admiral shares, so there doesn't seem to be any technical obstacle to them being allowed for purchase/exchange/conversion.

ETrade currently has no transaction fee on many Vanguard funds (but not Admiral class) so one would think they might be keen to offer Admiral shares if Vanguard would let them.

Any insights or datapoints?

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F150HD
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by F150HD » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:58 pm

Thats a looming question I have. Tax deferred at Fidelity, want to add a VG fund so waiting to see what shakes out here.

Way things are going, I am wondering (?) if the "Admiral" tag may disappear as share classes are disappearing? (at least Investor and Admiral anyway)

VG should be more clear about where this is all going (unless I missed it somewhere)

b0B
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:38 pm

F150HD wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:58 pm
VG should be more clear about where this is all going (unless I missed it somewhere)
They may be working on it (the "other brokerage" issue) now. The other brokerages may have only found out about all this when the rest of us did. I don't know how long it would take for the other brokerage to change their fund lineup (days? weeks?).

But I also can't figure what Vanguard and the various brokerages would want to do with this.

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F150HD
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by F150HD » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:31 am

b0B wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:38 pm
F150HD wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:58 pm
VG should be more clear about where this is all going (unless I missed it somewhere)
They may be working on it (the "other brokerage" issue) now. The other brokerages may have only found out about all this when the rest of us did. I don't know how long it would take for the other brokerage to change their fund lineup (days? weeks?).

But I also can't figure what Vanguard and the various brokerages would want to do with this.
There has to be a protocol for it, I just wonder why it hasn't been more transparent (?) unless it differs from brokerage to brokerage in tax-deferred (or even taxable). I don't spend tons of time on the VG site 'reading' about stuff like this so maybe someone somewhere already knows, will post, and will defeat the purpose of this thread. One can only hope this shakes out over the next few weeks.

b0B
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:39 pm

The Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at ETrade now say "Open To Existing Shareholders Only" and if you try to buy it, it says "The fund you've selected is closed to new investors." No sign of Admiral shares.

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F150HD
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by F150HD » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:44 pm

b0B wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:39 pm
The Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at ETrade now say "Open To Existing Shareholders Only" and if you try to buy it, it says "The fund you've selected is closed to new investors." No sign of Admiral shares.
well thats interesting.....please do post an update if in a month or few this somehow changes. Thanks.

b0B
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:02 pm

Similarly, the Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at Fidelity now say "Closed to new investors" and if you try to buy it, it says "The mutual fund you’re trying to buy is closed to new investments."

am
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by am » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:07 pm

Couldn’t buy total int or total stock this am at chase you invest. The admiral shares weren’t available and the investor shares were closed. Maybe temporary?

arf30
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by arf30 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:10 pm

I'm curious if anyone's called Vanguard to ask what's going to happen to their investor shares at 3rd party brokerages.

b0B
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:14 pm

However at Merrill Edge, the Vanguard Investor class fund info pages show no sign of change, and it will let you place an order to buy it (though it may not execute). I suspect that all this shows is that Merrill Edge is not up to date.

smectym
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by smectym » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:28 am

Yes I went through the exercise in my Vanguard account. I tried to buy $3,000 VBINX and got a message that it was closed. Then tried a $3000 buy for VBIAX (the Admiral class) and that was approved.

The democratization of lower ER can only be cheered. But let’s see whether Vanguard will eventually introduce a “Generalissimo” share class to assuage those who like to receive recognition and a kickback for...well, just for having a hell of a lot of MONEY

Smectym

Turbo29
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by Turbo29 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:08 pm

"Generalisimo Maximo"

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F150HD
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by F150HD » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:44 pm

Turbo29 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:08 pm
"Generalisimo Maximo"
?

b0B
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:44 am

b0B wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:39 pm
The Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at ETrade now say "Open To Existing Shareholders Only" and if you try to buy it, it says "The fund you've selected is closed to new investors." No sign of Admiral shares.
Okay this is a bit weird.
ETrade has added exactly one Admiral share class fund
https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks ... mbol=VTIAX
At that link is says
"Transaction Fee: No" (That's good)
"Availability: Open To New Investors" (This is new.)
"Initial Investment: $0" (That's surely wrong, should be $3k$, so maybe whole page is a glitch.)
If you change ticker VTIAX in the link to any other Admiral share class fund ticker, then you get a page saying
"This fund is not available for purchase through E*TRADE Securities." e.g.
https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks ... mbol=VTSAX

Nate79
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by Nate79 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:28 pm

b0B wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:44 am
b0B wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:39 pm
The Vanguard Investor class fund info pages at ETrade now say "Open To Existing Shareholders Only" and if you try to buy it, it says "The fund you've selected is closed to new investors." No sign of Admiral shares.
Okay this is a bit weird.
ETrade has added exactly one Admiral share class fund
https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks ... mbol=VTIAX
At that link is says
"Transaction Fee: No" (That's good)
"Availability: Open To New Investors" (This is new.)
"Initial Investment: $0" (That's surely wrong, should be $3k$, so maybe whole page is a glitch.)
If you change ticker VTIAX in the link to any other Admiral share class fund ticker, then you get a page saying
"This fund is not available for purchase through E*TRADE Securities." e.g.
https://www.etrade.wallst.com/v1/stocks ... mbol=VTSAX

The link now shows a min investment of $3k. It does look like it is available (I have an etrade account but no funds to test a trade).

b0B
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:08 am

^ Things keep changing on the website. It's not clear what the end result will be.

radiowave
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by radiowave » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:16 am

b0B wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:14 pm
However at Merrill Edge, the Vanguard Investor class fund info pages show no sign of change, and it will let you place an order to buy it (though it may not execute). I suspect that all this shows is that Merrill Edge is not up to date.
What does ME charge for purchasing Vanguard mutual funds?
Bogleheads Wiki: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page

b0B
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:23 am

radiowave wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:16 am
b0B wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:14 pm
However at Merrill Edge, the Vanguard Investor class fund info pages show no sign of change, and it will let you place an order to buy it (though it may not execute). I suspect that all this shows is that Merrill Edge is not up to date.
What does ME charge for purchasing Vanguard mutual funds?
About $20 and it's only Investor shares. Merrill Edge is not good for mutual funds. People here (including me) use it for Preferred Rewards and Brokerage Bonuses. If they like ETFs and/or transact little, then they're fine with it. I prefer mutual funds, and sometimes I have to transact, so it's less than ideal.

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SpringMan
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by SpringMan » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:37 am

Keep in mind the new lower limit for admiral shares does not apply to actively managed funds which still require 50K. As far as I know admiral shares of actively managed funds are only available through Vanguard, maybe possibly some 401(k)s. Fidelity, for example, won't allow VWIAX but will allow VWINX with a transaction fee.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

G-Force
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by G-Force » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:23 pm

I just tried to purchase VGTSX and VTSAX in a JP morgan you invest account and was not allowed to purchase either. VGTSX was previously allowed and is on their official list of mutual funds available in the account. I hope they add admiral shares soon.

b0B
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Re: ?Admiral share availability in other brokerages?

Post by b0B » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:44 pm

From another thread
acanthurus wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:30 pm
Vanguard Admiral shares were available for purchase at Schwab today (VTSAX, VTIAX, VBILX, etc). $3K min. They previously were available for "institutional" customers only, availability now says "open" instead.
So maybe it'll be starting elsewhere too. We'll see.

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