Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
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Rick Ferri
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Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:17 pm

Tonight I launched Core-4 Investing under the Core-4.com domain name.

You may recognize Core-4 from Bogleheads.org conversations and Wiki. It came about in 2007 as a simple way to achieve global diversification through four low-cost index funds.

OK, there's nothing new here about the Classic Rick Ferri Core-4. However, with today's launch, Core-4® multiplies. There is not one Core-4 portfolio, there are now 6, and each has 4 allocations for a total of 24 portfolios (to start). And how much does all this great content cost you? I have to charge the ongoing Boglehead price for access. Nothing! The content is free!

Why consider Core-4®? Because simple solutions are usually the best. Most investment strategies tend to gravitate toward the complex rather than the elegant. That's because Wall Street exists to make money from you, not for you. Brokers, advisers and fund companies consistently tell you that their expertise in selecting superior investments lead to superior returns. Yet there is no evidence to support that assertion. The cost of complexity is high, and high cost lowers performance. A library of academic studies prove this fact.

Like Taylor's Three-fund Portfolio, Core-4® Investing takes off the veil of high cost and complexity and focuses on what’s important. It strips away the excess and concentrates on simple investment models that hold no more than four mutual funds or ETFs (yes, holding one balanced fund or two or three stock and bond funds works well also).

It's all about simplicity. A few low-cost, broadly diversified mutual funds or exchange-traded funds (ETFs) held in a well-managed account will get you to your financial goals faster than a high cost complex strategy.

So, check it out! Core-4.com

Rick Ferri
Last edited by Rick Ferri on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by MJW » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:21 pm

Rick - I am still just getting a landing page. :confused

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Explorer » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:31 pm

Me too.. just a coming soon page.. :D

For what it is worth, I use 6 funds:
- Total US Stock
- Total Intl Stock
- US Agg Bond
- Intl Agg Bond (BNDX)
- LT Treasuries
- Short Term TIPS

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:39 pm

You probably need to clean out your cache, or try on a different browser, or wait a couple of days.

Rick
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Rowan Oak » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:43 pm

Rick Ferri wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:17 pm
Tonight I launched Core-4 Investing under the Core-4.com domain name.

You may recognize Core-4 from Bogleheads.org conversations and Wiki. It came about in 2007 as a simple way to achieve global diversification through four low-cost index funds.

OK, there's nothing new here about the Classic Rick Ferri Core-4. However, with today's launch, Core-4® multiplies. There is not one Core-4 portfolio, there are now 6, and each has 4 allocations for a total of 24 portfolios (to start). And how much does all this great content cost you? I have to charge the ongoing Boglehead price for access. Nothing! The content is free!

Why consider Core-4®? Because simple solutions are usually the best. Most investment strategies tend to gravitate toward the complex rather than the elegant. That's because Wall Street exists to make money from you, not for you. Brokers, advisers and fund companies consistently tell you that their expertise in selecting superior investments lead to superior returns. Yet there is no evidence to support that assertion. The cost of complexity is high, and high cost lowers performance. A library of academic studies prove this fact.

Like Taylor's Three-fund Portfolio, Core-4® Investing takes off the veil of high cost and complexity and focuses on what’s important. It strips away the excess and concentrates on simple investment models that hold no more than four mutual funds or ETFs (yes, holding one balanced fund or two or three stock and bond funds works well also).

It's all about simplicity. A few low-cost, broadly diversified mutual funds or exchange-traded funds (ETFs) held in a well-managed account will get you to your financial goals faster than a high cost complex strategy.

So, check it out! Core-4.com

Rick Ferri
Thank you, Rick!

As far as website working correctly,
I had no trouble viewing the website using a Google Pixel Android phone using Chrome browser.
Last edited by Rowan Oak on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Silk McCue » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:49 pm

Rick Ferri wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:39 pm
You probably need to clean out your cache, or try on a different browser, or wait a couple of days.

Rick
I’ve never visited this page and it is only showing the landing page, even if I switch to private browser. IPad running Safari.

Just tried on Windows 10 with Firefox. Same problem.

Cheers

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:52 pm

Well, that's not good.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:58 pm

OK. Someone please try again and let me know. Thanks.

Rick
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by xenial » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:58 pm

It's live now.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:59 pm

:sharebeer
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Silk McCue » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:00 pm

xenial wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:58 pm
It's live now.
+1

Cheers

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:05 pm

Feedback is appreciated.

The next upgrade will include analytics for each of the 24 portfolios and functionality to customize your own portfolio.

Rick Ferri
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by stan1 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:13 pm

To start we can refer the many people posting here right now looking for tax loss harvest pairs to this new site. Best wishes on the new business, Rick, I hope you can lead the charge in changing the traditional advisor business model into one where transparency and investor education prevail over commissions and high AUM fees while still enabling the advisor to make a fair living (for those clients who want the assistance). Looking forward to a blog post on preferred stocks (I'd forgotten they still exist?)

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE!

Post by Rowan Oak » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:16 pm

Rick Ferri wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:58 pm
OK. Someone please try again and let me know. Thanks.

Rick
Working fine for me. Using a Google Pixel Android phone using Chrome browser.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:21 pm

stan1 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:13 pm
To start we can refer the many people posting here right now looking for tax loss harvest pairs to this new site.
Great idea! Didn't think of that. But you're right.

That would be a good thing to expand in the future.

Rick Ferri
Last edited by Rick Ferri on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:21 pm

Looks good now.

Thanks.

RM
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Silk McCue » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:24 pm

The site is sharp and professional. I plan to spend more time navigating around the site tomorrow.

Glad to be one of the first to see this new launch.

Cheers

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by averagedude » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:32 pm

Rick, i like your model portfolios. Four asset classes just like Dave Ramsey. Could you please tell us which portfolio will earn 12%.😁

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:34 pm

If inflation runs up to 10%, they should all eventually earn 12%.

:oops:
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 pm

Total Economy is my jam! I remember you writing a blog post a long time ago about REIT + SCV tilt as a proxy for small business and real estate, and I've stuck with that allocation ever since. Same 70/20/10 configuration and everything.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by develop » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:16 pm

Rick Ferri wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:17 pm
Tonight I launched Core-4 Investing under the Core-4.com domain name.

You may recognize Core-4 from Bogleheads.org conversations and Wiki. It came about in 2007 as a simple way to achieve global diversification through four low-cost index funds.

OK, there's nothing new here about the Classic Rick Ferri Core-4. However, with today's launch, Core-4® multiplies. There is not one Core-4 portfolio, there are now 6, and each has 4 allocations for a total of 24 portfolios (to start). And how much does all this great content cost you? I have to charge the ongoing Boglehead price for access. Nothing! The content is free!

Why consider Core-4®? Because simple solutions are usually the best. Most investment strategies tend to gravitate toward the complex rather than the elegant. That's because Wall Street exists to make money from you, not for you. Brokers, advisers and fund companies consistently tell you that their expertise in selecting superior investments lead to superior returns. Yet there is no evidence to support that assertion. The cost of complexity is high, and high cost lowers performance. A library of academic studies prove this fact.

Like Taylor's Three-fund Portfolio, Core-4® Investing takes off the veil of high cost and complexity and focuses on what’s important. It strips away the excess and concentrates on simple investment models that hold no more than four mutual funds or ETFs (yes, holding one balanced fund or two or three stock and bond funds works well also).

It's all about simplicity. A few low-cost, broadly diversified mutual funds or exchange-traded funds (ETFs) held in a well-managed account will get you to your financial goals faster than a high cost complex strategy.

So, check it out! Core-4.com

Rick Ferri
I can see that I am in the minority here, and I expect some blowback for saying this, but isn't this just a way to make simplicity more complex? If someone truly valued simplicity, wouldn't they just stick with a typical three or four fund portfolio?

Six 4-fund portfolios for a total of "24 portfolios (to start)" sounds like the antithesis of simplicity. Just my two cents.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Silk McCue » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:21 pm

develop wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:16 pm

I can see that I am in the minority here, and I expect some blowback for saying this, but isn't this just a way to make simplicity more complex? If someone truly valued simplicity, wouldn't they just stick with a typical three or four fund portfolio?

Six 4-fund portfolios for a total of "24 portfolios (to start)" sounds like the antithesis of simplicity. Just my two cents.
Unhelpful and unnecessary.

Cheers

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:26 pm

Different 4 fund portfolios with different allocations for different types of investors, with the same goal for everyone.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by 2pedals » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:44 pm

Thank you Rick
Many folks are not happy with 3 funds (I am though)

:thumbsup

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Miriam2 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:48 pm

Yes, I see a "Store!" :D Hats? Coffee mugs?

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by bikechuck » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:00 pm

Thanks Rick, the site works with my browsers and I enjoyed reviewing the content.

I had fallen into something very close to what you call "The classic four" and this will inspire me to pair things down further.

I did work several years for an educational non profit that offered TIAA . I am using TIAA Real Estate instead of a REIT and I am using TIAA Traditional as a substitute for a portion of my bond investment. This complicates things a bit but I am reluctant to give up the TIAA Traditional in particular.

That said I like your new site and I love reading and thinking about the content. Your work along with Taylor Larimore's have been very helpful to me in refining and simplifying my investment approach.
Last edited by bikechuck on Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Core-4 is live

Post by vss » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:09 pm

Core-4 is up: http://www.core-4.com.

Awesome detail and fund suggestions.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:20 pm

^^^ I merged vss's post into the on-going discussion.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by vss » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:22 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:20 pm
^^^ I merged vss's post into the on-going discussion.
Thanks admin. Didn't see the earlier post.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by pascalwager » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:27 pm

Rick, I'm already enjoying studying your new website material (the link worked just fine for me) although I have a personal aversion to REITs and intermediate-term bonds, and like loads of cash. Anyway, it looks like an interesting and thought-provoking resource. Glad to see you active again in investing education.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by vss » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:04 pm

After carefully reading all of the 6 portfolios. I came up with this for my Traditional IRA (old 401K rollover):

ITOT (48%)
VXUS (24%)
PSCH (20%)
FAHDX (8%)

I really don't want to deviate from Rick's excellent choices but wanted to try eliminating REIT and added FAHDX for the bond.

Any thoughts?

Please advise.

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Rick Ferri's new Core-4 (6 versions) Website

Post by spdoublebass » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:26 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below (next page) --admin LadyGeek]

Here's his latest update that was released today.

https://core-4.com/?fbclid=IwAR3M_i8Ndw ... SkmW8-bTaA


From reading this forum I knew his CORE 4 was going to be updated. I've paid attention to Mr. Ferri's work and his contributions to this forum.

One question I have is regarding the inclusion of REIT's. I know they have always been a part of his Core 4 from the beginning. There were some posts recently on this forum debating if Mr. Ferri would still include/recommend them today. This new website obviously shows he still recommends them.
My question I have is why? Not that I disagree with holding them. I was just curious if anyone has any recent articles from him stating his current opinion/stance on why he is staying the course with REIT's.

I should state that this is only my second year in the market. I'm not trying to debate REIT's here at all. When you read this forum from a newer investor's point of view, it can be hard to figure out what to do. If I had been holding REIT's the last 20 years, I would continue to do so and follow my IPS. However, when you haven't yet invested in them and are just starting out, I guess I'm looking for more depth on why/if I should.

I want to be clear I'm not criticizing Mr. Ferri's work in any way. I'm just looking for more info.

EDIT: Also, why the lack of International REIT's? Because they are not pure REIT's like US REIT Funds?
I'm trying to think, but nothing happens

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by OffGridder » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:47 am

For a retiree living off his/her portfolio, what, if any advantage would any of Rick's Core 4 portfolios with a conservative allocation to equities offer over Taylor Three Fund Portfolio with a conservative allocation.
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by alpine_boglehead » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:56 am

Rick Ferri wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:05 pm
Feedback is appreciated.

The next upgrade will include analytics for each of the 24 portfolios and functionality to customize your own portfolio.

Rick Ferri
Rick, do you know portfoliocharts.com? I immediately thought of it when I saw Core-4.com because it discusses a similar range of simple indexing portfolios. It already has great analytics facilities. It was discussed e.g. in this thread and the author is also a boglehead with the username Tyler9000. Perhaps you can find some synergies.

Apart from that, thanks for nice site. It is a bit text-heavy and much less "agressive" regarding pushing something onto the user than most other sites (the only really "call to action" I can see for now is to become an affiliated advsiser), but that's on purpose I guess.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by jumppilot » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:03 am

Silk McCue wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:21 pm
develop wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:16 pm

I can see that I am in the minority here, and I expect some blowback for saying this, but isn't this just a way to make simplicity more complex? If someone truly valued simplicity, wouldn't they just stick with a typical three or four fund portfolio?

Six 4-fund portfolios for a total of "24 portfolios (to start)" sounds like the antithesis of simplicity. Just my two cents.
Unhelpful and unnecessary.

Cheers
I disagree. It's what we do here at this forum. We discuss investment strategies and bring up points and counter points.

On the surface, 24 portfolios is much more complex than the 3-fund portfolio.

If it wasn't Rick posting this, people would be tearing the poster apart in the name of simplicity.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:14 am

Miriam2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:48 pm
Yes, I see a "Store!" :D Hats? Coffee mugs?
Just book for now. I like the hat and coffee mugs idea! Maybe t-shirts?
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:16 am

vss wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:04 pm
After carefully reading all of the 6 portfolios. I came up with this for my Traditional IRA (old 401K rollover):

ITOT (48%)
VXUS (24%)
PSCH (20%)
FAHDX (8%)

I really don't want to deviate from Rick's excellent choices but wanted to try eliminating REIT and added FAHDX for the bond.

Any thoughts?

Please advise.
If it works for you, it works for me. The best portfolio for you is the one you'll stick with through thick and thin.

Rick Ferri
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:19 am

OffGridder wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:47 am
For a retiree living off his/her portfolio, what, if any advantage would any of Rick's Core 4 portfolios with a conservative allocation to equities offer over Taylor Three Fund Portfolio with a conservative allocation.
There is none. If Taylor's three-fund portfolio works for you, then that's the one you should use. At the core, this is all about portfolio simplicity. How you get there is a matter of choice.

Good luck and spread the word!

Rick Ferri
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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Snowjob » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:32 am

Looks good Rick!

Curious that real estate in all portfolios is only us versus global (I suppose that makes sense for US bias in the inflation one with respect to a US investor) but also that it’s only 6% in every iteration. I’m sure you’ve laid the rational out before but the 6% of assets in every model stood out to me today.

P.S love the focus on simple

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by develop » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:07 am

jumppilot wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:03 am
Silk McCue wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:21 pm
develop wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:16 pm

I can see that I am in the minority here, and I expect some blowback for saying this, but isn't this just a way to make simplicity more complex? If someone truly valued simplicity, wouldn't they just stick with a typical three or four fund portfolio?

Six 4-fund portfolios for a total of "24 portfolios (to start)" sounds like the antithesis of simplicity. Just my two cents.
Unhelpful and unnecessary.

Cheers
I disagree. It's what we do here at this forum. We discuss investment strategies and bring up points and counter points.
Thank you for saying that.
On the surface, 24 portfolios is much more complex than the 3-fund portfolio.

If it wasn't Rick posting this, people would be tearing the poster apart in the name of simplicity.
Very well put. I couldn't have said it better myself.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by nisiprius » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:23 am

Rick Ferri wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:17 pm
...a simple way...There is not one Core-4 portfolio, there are now 6, and each has 4 allocations for a total of 24 portfolios (to start)... Because simple solutions are usually the best. Like Taylor's Three-fund Portfolio, Core-4® Investing takes off the veil of high cost and complexity... It's all about simplicity.
24 portfolios? "To start?" Because it's "all about simplicity?"
First, you select a Core-4 Portfolio that fits your needs. Second, you select a risk level for that portfolio....
  • Classic Core-4: Capital appreciation with income using stocks, bonds and real estate
  • Total Economy Core-4: Includes quasi-private equity exposure using small value stocks
  • Global Markets Core-4: Provides exposure to all global stock and bond markets
  • Inflation Fighter Core-4: Includes funds that provide a hedge against inflation
  • Income Seeker Core-4: Incorporates funds that have higher than average income
  • Socially Conscious Core-4: Excludes certain companies and industries using ESG* standards
So here I am, a retiree. Which do I "need?" How do I know? Do I "need" ESG? Does anyone "need" ESG or just "want" ESG? I'm retired, how do I choose between "inflation fighter" and "income seeker," because it seems to me that I "need" both.

How do I know the right "risk level?" How do I know whether "low risk," "conservative growth," "moderate risk," or "aggressive growth" is right for me? This isn't necessarily obvious. I have known two different people, one in his late fifties, one in her early sixties, who both told me the same thing: "I picked the most 'aggressive' choice there was in my 401(k) plan because I'm behind in my retirement savings and I need to get as much growth as I can before I retire." [Removed, because as noted below by gobius100, the site does include links to the Vanguard Vanguard Risk Tolerance-Asset Allocation Tool.]

One final question. Was the design of any of these portfolios influenced by a need to have exactly four funds in order to rhyme with "core?"
Last edited by nisiprius on Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by typical.investor » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:40 am

nisiprius wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:23 am
Rick Ferri wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:17 pm
...a simple way...There is not one Core-4 portfolio, there are now 6, and each has 4 allocations for a total of 24 portfolios (to start)... Because simple solutions are usually the best. Like Taylor's Three-fund Portfolio, Core-4® Investing takes off the veil of high cost and complexity... It's all about simplicity.
24 portfolios? "To start?" Because it's "all about simplicity?"
First, you select a Core-4 Portfolio that fits your needs. Second, you select a risk level for that portfolio....
  • Classic Core-4: Capital appreciation with income using stocks, bonds and real estate
  • Total Economy Core-4: Includes quasi-private equity exposure using small value stocks
  • Global Markets Core-4: Provides exposure to all global stock and bond markets
  • Inflation Fighter Core-4: Includes funds that provide a hedge against inflation
  • Income Seeker Core-4: Incorporates funds that have higher than average income
  • Socially Conscious Core-4: Excludes certain companies and industries using ESG* standards
So here I am, a retiree. Which do I "need?" How do I know? Do I "need" ESG? Does anyone "need" ESG or just "want" ESG? I'm retired, how do I choose between "inflation fighter" and "income seeker," because it seems to me that I "need" both.

How do I know the right "risk level?" How do I know whether "low risk," "conservative growth," "moderate risk," or "aggressive growth" is right for me? This isn't necessarily obvious. I have known two different people, one in his late fifties, one in her early sixties, who both told me the same thing: "I picked the most 'aggressive' choice there was in my 401(k) plan because I'm behind in my retirement savings and I need to get as much growth as I can before I retire."

One final question. Was the design of any of these portfolios influenced by a need to have exactly four funds in order to rhyme with "core?"
The answer is on the site:
Core-4 Adviser Alliance members assist individuals and small institutional investors with all aspects of investment planning, portfolio design and account management. They also provide valuable content to the Core-4 Blog. All advisers must meet strict fiduciary standards. All advisers charge a fee for their services, which vary by firm.

*Core-4 Investing charges a fee to companies that advertise on this website. The blogs and other content provided by advertisers may facilitate their commercial purpose. Neither Core-4 Investing nor its owner guarantees the advice of any service provider; however, we do want to hear about positive and negative experiences.
It's so simple you can pay someone to help you! :sharebeer Some people do want the help though, even when offered a target retirement fund or three fund portfolio.

Anyway, there is no way Ferri's TOTAL ECONOMY CORE-4 PORTFOLIO will do better than the "Core Four" of Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera and Jorge Posada -- 19 World Series rings and 35 All-Star Game appearances.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by develop » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:51 am

It's so simple you can pay someone to help you! :sharebeer
Also very well said!

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by goblue100 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:53 am

nisiprius wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:23 am
How do I know the right "risk level?"
How do I know whether "low risk," "conservative growth," "moderate risk," or "aggressive growth" is right for me? This isn't necessarily obvious. I have known two different people, one in his late fifties, one in her early sixties, who both told me the same thing: "I picked the most 'aggressive' choice there was in my 401(k) plan because I'm behind in my retirement savings and I need to get as much growth as I can before I retire."
This is included on every portfolio page. On the web page the text "Vanguard Risk Tolerance-Asset Allocation Tool " is a link to said tool.
For assistance in selecting an appropriate risk level, use the Vanguard Risk Tolerance-Asset Allocation Tool or a similar questionnaire designed to recommend a stock and bond allocation.
Can't take it with you when you're gone | But I want enough to get there on - Rollin with the flow - Jerry Hayes

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:55 am

Typical.investor:

The advice I put on the site is free, but the site itself is not free to me. I paid to have a web-designer make the site and will pay to maintain it. If a few like-minded advisers want to advertise on my site and help pay the cost to provide information to you for free, that's just fine with me.
There is no way Ferri's TOTAL ECONOMY CORE-4 PORTFOLIO will do better than the "Core Four" of Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera and Jorge Posada -- 19 World Series rings and 35 All-Star Game appearances.
That is true! However, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Rick Ferri
The Education of an Index Investor: born in darkness, finds indexing enlightenment, overcomplicates everything, embraces simplicity.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by nisiprius » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:03 am

goblue100 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:53 am
nisiprius wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:23 am
How do I know the right "risk level?"
How do I know whether "low risk," "conservative growth," "moderate risk," or "aggressive growth" is right for me? This isn't necessarily obvious. I have known two different people, one in his late fifties, one in her early sixties, who both told me the same thing: "I picked the most 'aggressive' choice there was in my 401(k) plan because I'm behind in my retirement savings and I need to get as much growth as I can before I retire."
This is included on every portfolio page. On the web page the text "Vanguard Risk Tolerance-Asset Allocation Tool " is a link to said tool.
For assistance in selecting an appropriate risk level, use the Vanguard Risk Tolerance-Asset Allocation Tool or a similar questionnaire designed to recommend a stock and bond allocation.
You're right. I just struck out that comment of mine from my posting above.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by typical.investor » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:22 am

Rick Ferri wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:55 am
Typical.investor:

The advice I put on the site is free, but the site itself is not free to me. I paid to have a web-designer make the site and will pay to maintain it. If a few like-minded advisers want to advertise on my site and help pay the cost to provide information to you for free, that's just fine with me.
There is no way Ferri's TOTAL ECONOMY CORE-4 PORTFOLIO will do better than the "Core Four" of Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera and Jorge Posada -- 19 World Series rings and 35 All-Star Game appearances.
That is true! However, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Rick Ferri
Rick,

I have helped enough people to know some people really do want to be relieved of the stress of having to DIY.

I have seen fiduciaries recommending funds with loads and other fees.

And starting with relatively simple cores will reduce the demands on the advisor’s time and hourly costs or overall fees.

So I think it’s great you are doing this.

I just encourage you to blog about what you think reasonable service fees are so people have a framework to decide and not get taken advantage of by someone in the network. Of course they’ll complain if they know to complain, but if they end up there because Rick’s site was recommended here...

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Re: Rick Ferri's new Core-4 (6 versions) Website

Post by goblue100 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:23 am

You may want to check out this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=262817&newpost=419 ... ead#unread

I can't speak for Rick, but I suspect REITS are less correlated to the stock market and give a diversification benefit.
Can't take it with you when you're gone | But I want enough to get there on - Rollin with the flow - Jerry Hayes

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by Rick Ferri » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:03 am

Good point.

First, adviser fees in the aggregate are stable to down a little. Michael Kitces just wrote a blog that analyzed the results of an annual study by InvestmentNews titled 2018 InvestmentNews Pricing & Profitability Study. The InvestmentNews research still shows that the average advisory fee on a $1M account remains stubbornly set at 1.01%. Kitces writes, "to the extent that advisory firms are reducing fees, it may be driven more by a subset of especially high-priced firms that are coming in line to the median fee, rather than cuts in the medium advisory fee itself, along with an ongoing shift of advisory firms to move “upmarket” to more affluent clients (who pay lower fees in total simply because they reach higher breakpoints on the fee schedule)."

If the fees haven't moved much, what has changed? Services. Advisers are providing more services for the same fee or a slightly higher fee. They using technology not to lower fees, but to operate more efficiently so they can provide more services without raising fees. Kitces writes, "the emerging trend of declining advisory fees is far less about “fee compression” than a more healthy cost-reducing “fee deflation” instead." In other words, advisers are lowing fees by providing more and not charging more.

Second, given that advisers are providing more, there question is how people should pay for the new services that are being provided for essentially the same old fee? This is where we have to analyze what those services are, if they are one-off services or ongoing, or if clients are paying every year for services they only need once or infrequently. How many times do you need a full-blown financial plan? It shouldn't be more than once every 10 years, and even then only when you're approaching a turning point in your career or life.

Is it fair to charge clients every year for extra services based on the amount of money under management even when the extra services are used infrequently or not at all? My answer is no. If the cost of managing money is coming down, then the AUM fee for managing money should also come down, and any new add-on service should be charged based on what it actually cost to provide that service plus a markup for profitability. For example, rather than charge a client $10,000 to manage a $1,000 account, an adviser should charge 0.5% for portfolio management and some hourly dollar amount for all other services provided to the client. That's a fair way to do it.

To answer your question, I believe asset management costs have come down to 0.25%, not the 0.5% I mentioned above. Why haven't they? Because clients continue to pay higher fees. Plus, most advisers do not operate efficiently enough to change 0.25% for asset management and make a profit, and they're not about to spend on technology to get them there as long as clients are willing to pay a lot more.

I hope I answered your question.

Rick Ferri
The Education of an Index Investor: born in darkness, finds indexing enlightenment, overcomplicates everything, embraces simplicity.

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Re: Core-4 Investing is LIVE! It really is this time!

Post by friar1610 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:22 am

develop wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:51 am
It's so simple you can pay someone to help you! :sharebeer
Also very well said!
I don't care if people need help managing their ports or not. At the moment I have a port that is pretty close to Taylor's 3-Fund and Rick's Core-4. I'm perfectly capable of managing it myself. I'm 73 now but realize I may not always be as incredibly sharp as I am now. ;-) So I may want help - even with a "simple" portfolio - down the line. Also, I absolutely know my wife will want help if she is doing this on her own. So "simple" and "help" are not totally inconsistent.
Friar1610

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