Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

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longleaf
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by longleaf »

Confirmed: Site is under maintenance.

Personal investors:
Image

And institutional:
Image
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by rkhusky »

Yep. The Google links for individual fund information go here: https://investor.vanguard.com/corporate-portal-ecx/
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by RickBoglehead »

longleaf wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:40 am Confirmed: Site is under maintenance.

Personal investors:
Image

Not maintenance, "upgrade". Wow, let's spend the entire weekend (NOT) trying to figure out what the upgrades might be, deliberating if it's an upgrade if Fidelity/Schwab already have it, then when it comes up complaining about how it's different and we don't like change. :oops:

Wait, the background is red! Is this a negative change? Why don't they have power tools showing? :mrgreen:
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by indexfundfan »

I just received an email from Vanguard saying my statement is ready online ... only to find that the website is unavailable. LOL.
My signature has been deleted.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by KarenC »

12345
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by AllieTB1323 »

indexfundfan wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 am I just received an email from Vanguard saying my statement is ready online ... only to find that the website is unavailable. LOL.
That's funny. Right before Friday's close i printed out my October statement and my current holdings. Hope for the best and plan for the worst. :beer :beer
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by rkhusky »

I was able to log on, but could only see my account totals. I had to get a new security code. Progress is being made.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by LadyGeek »

I was also able to login. Although I never accepted the 2-factor authentication method, they immediately called my landline with a security code. I could only see my balances.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by jhfenton »

I was just able to log in, but after logging in, I see "Information is unavailable at this time."
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

Man, I forgot about this. Just tried to go check on a transfer and got the "Site Temporarily Unavailable". :oops:
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by peppers »

We can log in and see balances on one account and information not available on second account.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Tycoon »

Meh...
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I just logged in. Balances of Vanguard accounts displayed. But I already knew what they were. Still nice to see everything was still there.

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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Watty »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:04 pm Daylight savings time ends at 2 AM Sunday. That means they have an extra hour to work on it. :)
I would suspect that is not a coincidence.

Before I retired I worked in Corporate IT and a major part of my job was converting computer systems at very large warehouses. Trucks would be scheduled at 7:00 AM the morning after the conversions so being 30 minutes late was a big deal since trucks would be waiting and it would back things up all day. We loved getting that extra hour and would intentionally schedule the conversions around daylight savings time changes.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Paul Romano »

by Broken Man 1999 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:33 am

I just logged in. Balances of Vanguard accounts displayed. But I already knew what they were. Still nice to see everything was still there.
I just logged on and am not seeing any balances.

Message that they are currently unavailable.

Also received a message that my computer was not recognized when I tried to logon.

It is the same computer that I have used for 5+ years.

Luckily I could answer my security question--but still no balances. :oops:

I find it highly unusual that Vanguard does not provide a timeframe as to when they expect to complete their website maintenance.

I think the norm is to provide a start and finish time unless.......
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by tibbitts »

Paul Romano wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:18 am
by Broken Man 1999 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:33 am

I just logged in. Balances of Vanguard accounts displayed. But I already knew what they were. Still nice to see everything was still there.
I just logged on and am not seeing any balances.

Message that they are currently unavailable.

Also received a message that my computer was not recognized when I tried to logon.

It is the same computer that I have used for 5+ years.

Luckily I could answer my security question--but still no balances. :oops:

I find it highly unusual that Vanguard does not provide a timeframe as to when they expect to complete their website maintenance.

I think the norm is to provide a start and finish time unless.......
Didn't they provide an estimate that the site would be down for "the weekend"... ?

So that would mean they intend for it to be up by 10/5, no?
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Re: Platform changes?

Post by Turbo29 »

mptfan wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:22 pm
blevine wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:55 pm But in the end, everything is hackable... what happens when you lose your phone and can't access VIP ?
Social engineering happens.
You set up the VIP app on more than one device...another phone, a tablet, a Chromebook. That way if you lose your phone you can use the app on the other device as a backup. I
I have E*Trade with a Symantec token and have always wondered what would happen if I lost it or it malfunctioned. Are you saying I could also get the app on my phone and link that to my account also.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Keepcalm »

Everyone take a breath. This has been scheduled for a while now. Your funds will still be there after the maintenance :)
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Re: Platform changes?

Post by mptfan »

Turbo29 wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:23 am I have E*Trade with a Symantec token and have always wondered what would happen if I lost it or it malfunctioned. Are you saying I could also get the app on my phone and link that to my account also.
I don't know, that would depend on E*Trade, I am only referring to Schwab. Ask E*Trade. And just so I'm clear, Schwab does not use a physical token, they use the app.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by WanderingDoc »

This is why I hesitate to trust a 3rd party with my money. And the only way it's "tracked", is digits on a screen.

Obviously, not all of us knew our exact balances before the website went down. What happens if this "update" results in messed up balances?

Perfect example of mere bits and bytes. I've always felt that it was somehow not real or I didn't own it, once it was in a broker's hands.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Turbo29 »

WanderingDoc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:54 am This is why I hesitate to trust a 3rd party with my money. And the only way it's "tracked", is digits on a screen.

Obviously, not all of us knew our exact balances before the website went down. What happens if this "update" results in messed up balances?

Perfect example of mere bits and bytes. I've always felt that it was somehow not real or I didn't own it, once it was in a broker's hands.
What about real estate? Isn't the ownership and other parcel information just what the local county has recorded in their records. Many counties digitize those and the original documents are long gone.
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Re: Platform changes?

Post by oldcomputerguy »

mptfan wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:44 am
Turbo29 wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:23 am I have E*Trade with a Symantec token and have always wondered what would happen if I lost it or it malfunctioned. Are you saying I could also get the app on my phone and link that to my account also.
I don't know, that would depend on E*Trade, I am only referring to Schwab. Ask E*Trade. And just so I'm clear, Schwab does not use a physical token, they use the app.
When did they stop using the token? According to their web site, they still use a physical fob as well as VIP Access.


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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by stlutz »

Whether you use the phone app or a separate token, each has a unique ID that is non transferable. That is, you have to pick one or the other, and if you change phones or get a new token, you need to have your account linked to the new device ID.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by longleaf »

Turbo29 wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:00 pm
WanderingDoc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:54 am This is why I hesitate to trust a 3rd party with my money. And the only way it's "tracked", is digits on a screen.

Obviously, not all of us knew our exact balances before the website went down. What happens if this "update" results in messed up balances?

Perfect example of mere bits and bytes. I've always felt that it was somehow not real or I didn't own it, once it was in a broker's hands.
What about real estate? Isn't the ownership and other parcel information just what the local county has recorded in their records. Many counties digitize those and the original documents are long gone.
You can walk around and find the boundary. Or a surveyor can.

This is hardly a comparison. A balance is a constantly changing figure that is very difficult to keep track of. Real estate is physically existant and you can see it, walk around on it and put down markers to indicate your ownership.

If your money market was down a dollar, would you notice? Someone could get away with millions of dollars unnoticed, right? They cant go to your home and set up a tent on .01ac without being noticed.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by WanderingDoc »

Turbo29 wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:00 pm
WanderingDoc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:54 am This is why I hesitate to trust a 3rd party with my money. And the only way it's "tracked", is digits on a screen.

Obviously, not all of us knew our exact balances before the website went down. What happens if this "update" results in messed up balances?

Perfect example of mere bits and bytes. I've always felt that it was somehow not real or I didn't own it, once it was in a broker's hands.
What about real estate? Isn't the ownership and other parcel information just what the local county has recorded in their records. Many counties digitize those and the original documents are long gone.
Nope, not even close. I can drive up to my property and touch it. I can put tenants in there. And I can receive 10-15% return on my DP in the form of monthly income in perpetuity. If there is a balance discrepancy with digits on a screen, I doubt you will have the luxury of getting your 1.8% dividend. I can refinance any one of my properties, I've never had to provide a deed to anyone. One thing is real.

Even if the deed was "lost", in 48 or 49 states (besides Alaska where there is homesteading in certain areas) no one can come in there and claim ownership.

Drive up to Google HQ and tell them you're "invested" in it. You will be booted out the door. No avocado and toast for you either! :twisted:
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

blevine wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:59 pm For those freaking out, as an IT person, I am not so concerned that this means there is some major problem.
I have often faced planning an entire weekend long system upgrade.
Major upgrades with large data conversions can take hours, followed by need to validate success.
When I have a project that I expect to take the entire day Saturday, I tell users that there will be no access
other than testers of the new software version, until Monday morning. But I do expect if all goes well that the
software is running Sat eve or latest Sun morning, so there is time for unexpected test results to be resolved.
Wonderful point. I have been involved in planning major software roll outs, and always in the schedule we included enough time to test, repair, and revert to the old system if necessary.

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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by RickBoglehead »

WanderingDoc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:54 am This is why I hesitate to trust a 3rd party with my money. And the only way it's "tracked", is digits on a screen.

Obviously, not all of us knew our exact balances before the website went down. What happens if this "update" results in messed up balances?

Perfect example of mere bits and bytes. I've always felt that it was somehow not real or I didn't own it, once it was in a broker's hands.
Stuff your mattress?

Every financial institution has dropped paper ledgers..

I know exactly all my holdings. They are in Quicken. Dagnabit, that's electronic too!
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by rich126 »

Paul Romano wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:18 am
by Broken Man 1999 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:33 am

I just logged in. Balances of Vanguard accounts displayed. But I already knew what they were. Still nice to see everything was still there.
I just logged on and am not seeing any balances.

Message that they are currently unavailable.

Also received a message that my computer was not recognized when I tried to logon.

It is the same computer that I have used for 5+ years.

Luckily I could answer my security question--but still no balances. :oops:

I find it highly unusual that Vanguard does not provide a timeframe as to when they expect to complete their website maintenance.

I think the norm is to provide a start and finish time unless.......
Re-verify your identity because it doesn't recognize your computer can be caused by a number of items. Anything from you changing browsers, clearing cookies/cache, using a VPN, etc. to the possibility that the update is using a slightly different "cookie" or technique to verify your system.

You can't uniquely ID someone's computer simply based on an IP address, MAC address, etc. usually it is done via something stored on your machine through your browser.

While I find it a bit strange to take down a site for an extended period of time to do an upgrade, I don't think it is something to be concerned about unless it is still down on Monday. Then I think people would have a valid complaint.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Wakefield1 »

Entire new hardware/ computer server suite being installed as the main public WWW interface machine?
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by rkhusky »

rich126 wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:49 pm Re-verify your identity because it doesn't recognize your computer can be caused by a number of items. Anything from you changing browsers, clearing cookies/cache, using a VPN, etc. to the possibility that the update is using a slightly different "cookie" or technique to verify your system.

You can't uniquely ID someone's computer simply based on an IP address, MAC address, etc. usually it is done via something stored on your machine through your browser.

While I find it a bit strange to take down a site for an extended period of time to do an upgrade, I don't think it is something to be concerned about unless it is still down on Monday. Then I think people would have a valid complaint.
Not using cookies on my machine. My browser deletes them after every session. I'm thinking something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_fingerprinting

There are browser extensions to defeat this, but I haven't tried them yet.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by mptfan »

WanderingDoc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:54 am Obviously, not all of us knew our exact balances before the website went down. What happens if this "update" results in messed up balances?
I don't care about my exact balances before the website went down, the only thing I care about is the number of shares that I own in each fund, and I do have those exact numbers and I do expect those numbers to match when the website comes back up.
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Re: Platform changes?

Post by mptfan »

oldcomputerguy wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:10 pm
mptfan wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:44 am
Turbo29 wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:23 am I have E*Trade with a Symantec token and have always wondered what would happen if I lost it or it malfunctioned. Are you saying I could also get the app on my phone and link that to my account also.
I don't know, that would depend on E*Trade, I am only referring to Schwab. Ask E*Trade. And just so I'm clear, Schwab does not use a physical token, they use the app.
When did they stop using the token? According to their web site, they still use a physical fob as well as VIP Access.
I stand corrected. I suspect that they used to issue physical tokens and they have existing customers who still use it, but recently stopped issuing them (although I can't say for sure) and are now using the VIP app for people who set up 2 factor authentication because that is what was offered to me recently. It's also cheaper because they do not have to pay for and mail a physical token anymore.
Last edited by mptfan on Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by mptfan »

WanderingDoc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:23 pm Nope, not even close. I can drive up to my property and touch it. I can put tenants in there. And I can receive 10-15% return on my DP in the form of monthly income in perpetuity. If there is a balance discrepancy with digits on a screen, I doubt you will have the luxury of getting your 1.8% dividend. I can refinance any one of my properties, I've never had to provide a deed to anyone. One thing is real.

Even if the deed was "lost", in 48 or 49 states (besides Alaska where there is homesteading in certain areas) no one can come in there and claim ownership.
I think you are missing the point. Yes you can touch land, but you cannot prove that you own that particular piece of land, or where the boundaries of that particular parcel of land begins and ends without referring to the records maintained by the clerk in your local county, and those records are becoming digitized more and more. They may still exist in paper form somewhere, but more and more we are becoming reliant on the digitized versions of title documents to prove ownership of real property in the same way we are now mostly reliant on digitized documents to prove ownership of other marketable securities.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by mptfan »

stlutz wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:14 pm Whether you use the phone app or a separate token, each has a unique ID that is non transferable. That is, you have to pick one or the other, and if you change phones or get a new token, you need to have your account linked to the new device ID.
Schwab may force you to pick between the physical token and the Symantec app, I can't say because I've never used the physical token, but if you use the app, you can set up more than one app on more than one device and link it to the same account.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Doc »

mptfan wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:12 pm
WanderingDoc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:54 am Obviously, not all of us knew our exact balances before the website went down. What happens if this "update" results in messed up balances?
I don't care about my exact balances before the website went down, the only thing I care about is the number of shares that I own in each fund, and I do have those exact numbers and I do expect those numbers to match when the website comes back up.
And if you placed a buy for $1000 for the VFIDX fund during business hours on Friday just how many shares do you own today? :P

You are probably not concerned but what if it had been $1,000,000?

What If it had been an emerging market fund? Or an ETF?

I wouldn't be concerned but neither would I know exactly how many shares I owned.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by mptfan »

longleaf wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:15 pm You can walk around and find the boundary. Or a surveyor can.

This is hardly a comparison. A balance is a constantly changing figure that is very difficult to keep track of. Real estate is physically existant and you can see it, walk around on it and put down markers to indicate your ownership.
Sure, you can walk around and find the boundary and put down markers to indicate your ownership, and someone else can do the same thing and walk around the parcel, or someone can dispute the boundaries...and then what?
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by mptfan »

Doc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:27 pm And if you placed a buy for $1000 for the VFIDX fund during business hours on Friday just how many shares do you own today? :P
You're right, but having notice that the website would be down over the weekend I would not have done that.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ 2 posts up. Please stay focused on the investing aspects.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Ricchan »

Wakefield1 wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:55 pm Entire new hardware/ computer server suite being installed as the main public WWW interface machine?
If they're just updating their frontend servers, I don't think that would require downtime. In theory you should be able to develop and test new frontend servers in parallel and just redirect the load balancer when the new servers are ready for production. Simple database maintenance shouldn't require downtime either with replication. I'd guess the downtime is due to heavy database changes to schema or architecture, and the need to verify data consistency according to some strict industry regulations.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by goodenyou »

The question of whether having all assets at one investment site is a good idea or not is often asked here. Maybe this would be a good reason to spread it out a bit.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by rasta »

mptfan wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:30 pm
Doc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:27 pm And if you placed a buy for $1000 for the VFIDX fund during business hours on Friday just how many shares do you own today? :P
You're right, but having notice that the website would be down over the weekend I would not have done that.
Easy to do the math to figure out how many shares you would have bought.

1000/9.27

banks/brokerages do upgrades on weekends, RELAX.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Doc »

rasta wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:16 pm
mptfan wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:30 pm
Doc wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:27 pm And if you placed a buy for $1000 for the VFIDX fund during business hours on Friday just how many shares do you own today? :P
You're right, but having notice that the website would be down over the weekend I would not have done that.
Easy to do the math to figure out how many shares you would have bought.

1000/9.27

banks/brokerages do upgrades on weekends, RELAX.
Where did you get the price? Vanguard website's down.

What if it was an ETF? Limit order on close? You might not even know if you bought anything.
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by pokebowl »

goodenyou wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:55 pm The question of whether having all assets at one investment site is a good idea or not is often asked here. Maybe this would be a good reason to spread it out a bit.
I mean I personally do all my market trades and bank transfers on the weekend. :P
rasta
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by rasta »

are you really that naive?
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CABob
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by CABob »

Wow! This is almost as exciting and worrisome as when Bogleheads goes down for maintenance.
Bob
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by stlutz »

Wow! This is almost as exciting and worrisome as when Bogleheads goes down for maintenance.
Maybe LadyGeek isn't as fun-loving as I thought--she should have taken BH down at the same time just to see what would happen. Perhaps she was concern it would result in a spike in the national suicide rate?

:D
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Housedoc »

It appears the Prepers have come out of the bunker and light is upsetting their thought process. All is well. IT guy for 35yrs, many upgrades in my life. Backup copies, offsite copies, ample test time. Relax everyone.
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by oldcomputerguy »

mptfan wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:26 pm
stlutz wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:14 pm Whether you use the phone app or a separate token, each has a unique ID that is non transferable. That is, you have to pick one or the other, and if you change phones or get a new token, you need to have your account linked to the new device ID.
Schwab may force you to pick between the physical token and the Symantec app, I can't say because I've never used the physical token, but if you use the app, you can set up more than one app on more than one device and link it to the same account.
Then there's a difference between Schwab and Fidelity. I asked Fidelity if I could set the VIP Access app up on both my phone and my iPad as a backup, and they told me that I could only link one instance of the app to my login. That being said, my wife has her own login to access our accounts, and there is a separate instance of VIP Access installed on her iPad and linked to her login. But in each case our individual logins can only be linked to one app instance each, at least per Fidelity's support people.
"I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people; and if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you." (Aaron Sorkin)
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by oldcomputerguy »

stlutz wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:40 pm
Wow! This is almost as exciting and worrisome as when Bogleheads goes down for maintenance.
Maybe LadyGeek isn't as fun-loving as I thought--she should have taken BH down at the same time just to see what would happen. Perhaps she was concern it would result in a spike in the national suicide rate?

:D
From the angst seen here over this maintenance window, I'm not sure she wouldn't have been right.
:shock:
"I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people; and if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you." (Aaron Sorkin)
Conch55
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Re: Vanguard website "unavailable during weekend of Nov 3"

Post by Conch55 »

It appears the Prepers have come out of the bunker and light is upsetting their thought process. All is well. IT guy for 35yrs, many upgrades in my life. Backup copies, offsite copies, ample test time. Relax everyone.
Retired IT guy here. I agree speculating about this is pointless but I, as a Vanguard client, don't recall receiving a notice about the outage and/or upgrade. For me, that's the issue however minor.
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