The ship metaphor

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deepvalleys
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The ship metaphor

Post by deepvalleys » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:20 pm

I think I understand the ship logo of the Vanguard fund, and the «stay the course» slogan.

As long as it is smooth sailing, it is easy to stay on course. In january when the sea got more choppy and waves got bigger, it was harder but still managable. Now it seems we’ve reached a cataract that is flowing fast downwards. How will the landing be, and should one tie oneself to the mast like Odysseus, to avoid the temptation to jump ship?
Last edited by deepvalleys on Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bengal22
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by bengal22 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:26 pm

Just remember that everything will be OK in the end.

If things aren't OK then its not the end.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

bloom2708
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:33 pm

Don't look. Turn off financial news. Keep buying as planned toward your mix of stocks and bonds.

The next 2 weeks (pre-election) will be filled with unbelievable stories/narratives to influence the election.

The markets will wobble. Earnings and fundamentals are still pretty good. Stay the course and go for a walk or run or bike ride.
"People want confirmation, not advice" Unknown | "We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you" Unknown | Four words: Whole food, plant based

3funder
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by 3funder » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:34 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:33 pm
Don't look. Turn off financial news. Keep buying as planned toward your mix of stocks and bonds.

The next 2 weeks (pre-election) will be filled with unbelievable stories/narratives to influence the election.

The markets will wobble. Earnings and fundamentals are still pretty good. Stay the course and go for a walk or run or bike ride.
+1

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JoeRetire
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:06 pm

bengal22 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:26 pm
Just remember that everything will be OK in the end.

If things aren't OK then its not the end.
In the end, we're all dead.
And that's okay.
Very Stable Genius

longleaf
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by longleaf » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:15 pm

I didnt even know the market was down until I read this

See how easy it can be? :wink:
Frugality, indexing, time.

MarkRoulo
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by MarkRoulo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:26 pm

deepvalleys wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:20 pm
I think I understand the ship logo of the Vanguard fund, and the «stay the course» slogan.

As long as it is smooth sailing, it is easy to stay on course. In january when the sea got more choppy and waves got bigger, it was harder but still managable. Now it seems we’ve reached a cataract that is flowing fast downwards. How will the landing be, and should one tie oneself to the mast like Odysseus, to avoid the temptation to jump ship?
The Vanguard web-site has a bit of information on the logo:
The company is named for a distinguished 18th-century vessel. Meaning "in the forefront," our name has proved quite fitting as we have grown to become a leader in serving investors.
...
Navigating a multitude of investment choices and maintaining focus amid unpredictable markets can be difficult. As millions of investors and advisors have come to trust Vanguard, our logo remains an apt metaphor for a company with an unwavering commitment to its mission.
Wikipedia has an article on the ship itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_(1787).

The Wikipedia article includes this:
Investment management company The Vanguard Group is named after HMS Vanguard. The founder of the company chose the name after a dealer in antique prints left him a book about Great Britain’s naval achievements, and a likeness of the ship is emblazoned on the company's logo.

heyyou
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by heyyou » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:05 pm

Uncertainty boosts market turmoil. There will be less uncertainty after a couple of weeks. Something about problems that are familiar, is better than problems that are unfamiliar.

mrussell22
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by mrussell22 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:09 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:33 pm
Don't look. Turn off financial news. Keep buying as planned toward your mix of stocks and bonds.

The next 2 weeks (pre-election) will be filled with unbelievable stories/narratives to influence the election.

The markets will wobble. Earnings and fundamentals are still pretty good. Stay the course and go for a walk or run or bike ride.
+1

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Kenkat
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by Kenkat » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:09 pm

To paraphrase a saying I once heard - hey, I survived 2008-2009; this is picnic weather!

mrgeeze
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by mrgeeze » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:17 pm

Keep the pointy end forward
When it doubt,pull back on the throttle.
Above all, remain calm.

All good maritime and stock market advice.

Fallible
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by Fallible » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:30 pm

deepvalleys wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:20 pm
I think I understand the ship logo of the Vanguard fund, and the «stay the course» slogan.

As long as it is smooth sailing, it is easy to stay on course. In january when the sea got more choppy and waves got bigger, it was harder but still managable. Now it seems we’ve reached a cataract that is flowing fast downwards. How will the landing be, and should one tie oneself to the mast like Odysseus, to avoid the temptation to jump ship?


These are the questions you asked -and answered - when setting your course (asset allocation), right?
John Bogle on his often bumpy road to low-cost indexing: "When a door closes, if you look long enough and hard enough, if you're strong enough, you'll find a window that opens."

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:31 pm

I put together my portfolio, including hundreds of thousands of cash in taxable going into stock, in fall 2007. Now THERE were some rough waters. This? Pfffft.

Wakefield1
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by Wakefield1 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:46 pm

Wasn't Mr. Bogle involved in the management of a recreational sailboat manufacturer at one time?
Wow,I just see that there have been 11 different HMS Vanguards ! Was one of them at the Battle of Trafalgar?

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fortyofforty
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by fortyofforty » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:46 pm

Wakefield1 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:46 pm
Wasn't Mr. Bogle involved in the management of a recreational sailboat manufacturer at one time?
Wow,I just see that there have been 11 different HMS Vanguards ! Was one of them at the Battle of Trafalgar?
Yes, Admiral Nelson's ship.
Indexing works, not because of magic, but because of math. | Diligentia. Vis. Celeritas. - Jeff Cooper | Original Vanguard Diehard

Mr. Jelly
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by Mr. Jelly » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm

My how people turn philosophical when the market goes down. :sharebeer

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obafgkm
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by obafgkm » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:03 pm

Wakefield1 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:46 pm
Wasn't Mr. Bogle involved in the management of a recreational sailboat manufacturer at one time?
Wow,I just see that there have been 11 different HMS Vanguards ! Was one of them at the Battle of Trafalgar?
fortyofforty wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:46 pm
Yes, Admiral Nelson's ship.
I thought Nelson's ship was the HMS Victory.

MarkRoulo
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by MarkRoulo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:04 pm

fortyofforty wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:46 pm
Wakefield1 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:46 pm
Wasn't Mr. Bogle involved in the management of a recreational sailboat manufacturer at one time?
Wow,I just see that there have been 11 different HMS Vanguards ! Was one of them at the Battle of Trafalgar?
Yes, Admiral Nelson's ship.
Which was spelled "Victory" to confuse the French :-)

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goingup
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by goingup » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:06 pm

I'm very fond of the sailing metaphors as they relate to investing. Perhaps it's the visual context they supply. I think about bonds as ballast. Cash as a sail to windward. Letting our asset allocation drift. Small cap funds as a jib sail. Rough waters. Smooth sailing. Setting a course. Staying the course. Lashing oneself to the mast.

Ben Franklin advised using prudence with: "Bigger ships can venture more, smaller boats stay near the shore".

Personally, I am a plodding landlubber. But the sailing metaphor resonates. Investing requires preparation and planning but ultimately if you're in the market the Fates decide.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:09 pm

I’m waiting for November 5th to put my cash to work. Here’s your chance to bid the price up before I get in.....any takers? Where are those 90/10 folks? Hmmmm.....
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

tesuzuki2002
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:17 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:06 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:26 pm
Just remember that everything will be OK in the end.

If things aren't OK then its not the end.
In the end, we're all dead.
And that's okay.
You got us all there!!!

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VictoriaF
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:32 pm

deepvalleys wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:20 pm
I think I understand the ship logo of the Vanguard fund, and the «stay the course» slogan.

As long as it is smooth sailing, it is easy to stay on course. In january when the sea got more choppy and waves got bigger, it was harder but still managable. Now it seems we’ve reached a cataract that is flowing fast downwards. How will the landing be, and should one tie oneself to the mast like Odysseus, to avoid the temptation to jump ship?
Odysseus did not avoid the temptation. He was tempted by the Sirens but could not do anything about it. It was a tantalizing experience for him. Unless you can arrange with someone to tie you up, resistance is futile.

Odysseus's crew had it far better. Their ears were plugged and they did not know what they were missing. Do the same, tune off. Go to a lonely cabin in the Norwegian wilderness leaving all communications means behind. Stay there for a couple weeks to de-synthesize yourself from the market Sirens.

As for the ship metaphor, my guiding principle is to remain liquid no matter what the market does.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

B. Wellington
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by B. Wellington » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:03 am

Harbor (after) in the Tempest....

...Words borrowed from the group U2

Make a plan that you can stick with through good weather and bad.

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Timoneer
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by Timoneer » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:24 am

MarkRoulo wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:26 pm
The Vanguard web-site has a bit of information on the logo:
The company is named for a distinguished 18th-century vessel. Meaning "in the forefront," our name has proved quite fitting as we have grown to become a leader in serving investors.
...
Navigating a multitude of investment choices and maintaining focus amid unpredictable markets can be difficult. As millions of investors and advisors have come to trust Vanguard, our logo remains an apt metaphor for a company with an unwavering commitment to its mission.
It is worth noting that Mr Bogle is a great admirer of Admiral Nelson, a contemporary of General Wellington. Vanguard's headquarters is located on Admiral Nelson Drive. Several of the buildings are named after Nelson's ships. And of course the premier offerings are the Admiral Funds.

Vanguard was not Nelson's most famous ship, but the name serves well. It was his flagship at the 1798 battle of the Nile, and Mr Bogle's office is decorated with several scenes of that battle, as well as of the scene of a legendary meeting between the Admiral and General Wellington.

The expression 'keeping some dry powder' is a nautical reference to Nelson's time.

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friar1610
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Re: The ship metaphor

Post by friar1610 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:21 pm

Timoneer wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:24 am
MarkRoulo wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:26 pm
The Vanguard web-site has a bit of information on the logo:
The company is named for a distinguished 18th-century vessel. Meaning "in the forefront," our name has proved quite fitting as we have grown to become a leader in serving investors.
...
Navigating a multitude of investment choices and maintaining focus amid unpredictable markets can be difficult. As millions of investors and advisors have come to trust Vanguard, our logo remains an apt metaphor for a company with an unwavering commitment to its mission.
It is worth noting that Mr Bogle is a great admirer of Admiral Nelson, a contemporary of General Wellington. Vanguard's headquarters is located on Admiral Nelson Drive. Several of the buildings are named after Nelson's ships. And of course the premier offerings are the Admiral Funds.

Vanguard was not Nelson's most famous ship, but the name serves well. It was his flagship at the 1798 battle of the Nile, and Mr Bogle's office is decorated with several scenes of that battle, as well as of the scene of a legendary meeting between the Admiral and General Wellington.

The expression 'keeping some dry powder' is a nautical reference to Nelson's time.
Not that this has anything to do with investing, but I just returned home from a cruise that included a visit to Portsmouth, England. Whilst there (I just had to work in that Brit way of saying "while"!) I visited HMS Victory from which Nelson directed the British victory at Trafalgar and upon which he received a mortal wound. Very interesting stuff and I recalled Bogle's fascination with British naval history.

One more irrelevant naval anecdote. I once had a tour of the Vanguard campus in PA and there is nautical art all over the place. The guide pointed out one picture in the cafeteria ("galley" in Vanguard-speak) in which a British ship is blowing the hell out of a French ship. Clearly visible on the stern of the French ship is its name: Fidelite'.
Friar1610

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