"Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

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Rowan Oak
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"Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by Rowan Oak »

"Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard
This is the best quote from Vanguard in years. Found it looking through a current prospectus. Don't know how long they've been including this.

The line has been drawn.
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger
mortfree
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by mortfree »

My ETF market limit order at Vanguard went through today at almost $9/share less than the 52-week high.

False advertising.
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Rowan Oak wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:14 pm
"Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard
This is the best quote from Vanguard in years. Found it looking through a current prospectus. Don't know how long they've been including this.

The line has been drawn.
Rowan Oak:
"Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer."
I am happy to see that Vanguard is doing the right thing by discouraging market timing.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156499

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by xenial »

Rowan Oak wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:14 pm
"Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard
This is the best quote from Vanguard in years. Found it looking through a current prospectus. Don't know how long they've been including this.

The line has been drawn.
That line was drawn long ago. From the Vanguard Wellington prospectus dated March 19, 1999 (link):
PLAIN TALK ABOUT COSTS AND MARKET-TIMING

Some investors try to profit from market-timing -- switching money into investments when they expect prices to rise, and taking money out when they expect the market to fall. As money is shifted in and out, a fund incurs expenses for buying and selling securities. These costs are borne by all fund shareholders, including the long-term investors who do not generate the costs. Therefore, the Fund discourages short-term trading by, among other things, limiting the number of exchanges it permits.

THE VANGUARD FUNDS DO NOT PERMIT MARKET-TIMING. DO NOT INVEST IN THIS FUND IF YOU ARE A MARKET-TIMER.
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by Rowan Oak »

Very good. Guess I never noticed it before or it's not included in all prospectuses.
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by columbia »

I’d say Vanguard does, in fact, have a high tolerance for market timing....


Vanguard Group begins an investing experiment that pushes free ETF trading to its limit
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... sting.html
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by smectym »

columbia wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:29 pm I’d say Vanguard does, in fact, have a high tolerance for market timing....


Vanguard Group begins an investing experiment that pushes free ETF trading to its limit
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... sting.html
Agree, the statement is unenforceable fluff and those who are oohing and ahhing about it, despite their intelligence and long experience, seem to affect an implausible naïveté.

Smectym
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by smectym »

smectym wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:28 am
columbia wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:29 pm I’d say Vanguard does, in fact, have a high tolerance for market timing....


Vanguard Group begins an investing experiment that pushes free ETF trading to its limit
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... sting.html
Agree, the statement is unenforceable fluff and those who are oohing and ahhing about it, despite their intelligence and long experience, seem to affect an implausible naïveté.

Smectym
One might add that in past years it was perhaps superficially possible to adopt a persimmon-faced attitude of clucking, finger-wagging disapproval toward so-called “market timers” by arguing (with thin or nil evidence) that their activities might adversely affect other, presumably wide-eyed and innocent, deserving-of-and-much-in-need-of-protection investors in a given mutual fund. Now Vanguard offers a full suite of market-traded ETF’s, many of which mimic its mutual fund alter egos.

Please alert the board when the news hits that Vanguard has disabled the trading account of a Vanguard brokerage customer for violating the sacrosanct “no market timing” commandment through the customer’s ETF trading.

Smectym
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JoMoney
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by JoMoney »

Frequent traders in mutual funds should be discouraged, it increases costs for long-term holders.
Frequent traders in ETFs help the traditional fund owners manage capital gains, and only hurt themselves.
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by dumbmoney »

smectym wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:28 am
columbia wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:29 pm I’d say Vanguard does, in fact, have a high tolerance for market timing....


Vanguard Group begins an investing experiment that pushes free ETF trading to its limit
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... sting.html
Agree, the statement is unenforceable fluff and those who are oohing and ahhing about it, despite their intelligence and long experience, seem to affect an implausible naïveté.
It's enforced.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Frequent_trading_policy
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by RadAudit »

In order to discourage market timing, maybe they just have server issues. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=261006&newpost=415 ... ead#unread :wink:

Which sort of raised the question of how many people can squeeze through the same door at the same time if everyone wants to leave at the same time.
Last edited by RadAudit on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rowan Oak
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by Rowan Oak »

smectym wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:28 am
columbia wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:29 pm I’d say Vanguard does, in fact, have a high tolerance for market timing....


Vanguard Group begins an investing experiment that pushes free ETF trading to its limit
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... sting.html
Agree, the statement is unenforceable fluff and those who are oohing and ahhing about it, despite their intelligence and long experience, seem to affect an implausible naïveté.

Smectym
Not sure I see your point.
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger
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Re: "Do not invest with Vanguard if you are a market-timer." - Vanguard

Post by asset_chaos »

That phrase has been in every Vanguard prospectus I've read, which is definitely not every Vanguard prospectus, for the past 30 years.
Regards, | | Guy
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