How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

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WanderingDoc
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How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by WanderingDoc » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm

How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
Don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate, and wait. | Rent where you live, buy where others pay your mortgage for you.

HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:01 pm

You’re probably better off sticking to real estate.

MotoTrojan
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by MotoTrojan » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:04 pm

Why DCA?

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whodidntante
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by whodidntante » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:10 pm

The easiest way is to buy the corresponding ADRs BABA and TCEHY. It is possible to trade on a foreign exchanges though, if that's what you are asking. Probably you need to look at buying H-shares (Hong Kong) due to Chinese capital flow and foreign investment restrictions.

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vineviz
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by vineviz » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:11 pm

WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
Most brokers offer deals to encourage foolhardy schemes like this, but it'd probably be easier to choose an index fund like iShares Core MSCI Emerging Markets ETF (IEMG).
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch

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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by inbox788 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:44 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:10 pm
The easiest way is to buy the corresponding ADRs BABA and TCEHY. It is possible to trade on a foreign exchanges though, if that's what you are asking. Probably you need to look at buying H-shares (Hong Kong) due to Chinese capital flow and foreign investment restrictions.
Yahoo became Altababa (NASDAQ AABA) after they sold the main holdings to Verizon. It's now mainly a holding company for some of the remaining investments and much of the value is derived from Alibaba.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/420572 ... xy-alibaba

WanderingDoc
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by WanderingDoc » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:03 pm

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:01 pm
You’re probably better off sticking to real estate.
I know I am. But I have some extra bucks that I don't mind spending. I'm about 85% in real estate, and 15% in equities. Companies with solid fundamentals with (IMO) good future prospects, could be had for a lower price. Seems like a no brainer. No guarantees of course.
Don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate, and wait. | Rent where you live, buy where others pay your mortgage for you.

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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by WanderingDoc » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:05 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:10 pm
The easiest way is to buy the corresponding ADRs BABA and TCEHY. It is possible to trade on a foreign exchanges though, if that's what you are asking. Probably you need to look at buying H-shares (Hong Kong) due to Chinese capital flow and foreign investment restrictions.
Do you have any resources that you recommend before jumping into this kind of thing? I would love to do a few hours of reading to get my feet wet. Thanks for your comment.
Don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate, and wait. | Rent where you live, buy where others pay your mortgage for you.

WanderingDoc
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by WanderingDoc » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:07 pm

vineviz wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:11 pm
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
Most brokers offer deals to encourage foolhardy schemes like this, but it'd probably be easier to choose an index fund like iShares Core MSCI Emerging Markets ETF (IEMG).
This looks good. Okay to buy it at Vanguard, or should I just start an account at iShares to make it more streamlined? Thanks for the suggestion.
Don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate, and wait. | Rent where you live, buy where others pay your mortgage for you.

WanderingDoc
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by WanderingDoc » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:11 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:44 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:10 pm
The easiest way is to buy the corresponding ADRs BABA and TCEHY. It is possible to trade on a foreign exchanges though, if that's what you are asking. Probably you need to look at buying H-shares (Hong Kong) due to Chinese capital flow and foreign investment restrictions.
Yahoo became Altababa (NASDAQ AABA) after they sold the main holdings to Verizon. It's now mainly a holding company for some of the remaining investments and much of the value is derived from Alibaba.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/420572 ... xy-alibaba
"Monetizing assets other than the holdings of BABA allows Altaba to free up cash that can be used to shrink the discount to net asset value, and at the same time, this makes Altaba a better proxy investment for those seeking exposure to Alibaba primarily.

Those seeking more exposure to Alibaba are most likely the vast majority of investors, as Alibaba is a highly attractive company to invest in."

With net revenue increase of 200% last 3 years, I don't see any red flags NOT to invest in BABA at this time. Thoughts?
Don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate, and wait. | Rent where you live, buy where others pay your mortgage for you.

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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by Nate79 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:37 pm

WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:11 pm
inbox788 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:44 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:10 pm
The easiest way is to buy the corresponding ADRs BABA and TCEHY. It is possible to trade on a foreign exchanges though, if that's what you are asking. Probably you need to look at buying H-shares (Hong Kong) due to Chinese capital flow and foreign investment restrictions.
Yahoo became Altababa (NASDAQ AABA) after they sold the main holdings to Verizon. It's now mainly a holding company for some of the remaining investments and much of the value is derived from Alibaba.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/420572 ... xy-alibaba
"Monetizing assets other than the holdings of BABA allows Altaba to free up cash that can be used to shrink the discount to net asset value, and at the same time, this makes Altaba a better proxy investment for those seeking exposure to Alibaba primarily.

Those seeking more exposure to Alibaba are most likely the vast majority of investors, as Alibaba is a highly attractive company to invest in."

With net revenue increase of 200% last 3 years, I don't see any red flags NOT to invest in BABA at this time. Thoughts?

What do you know that the market doesn't know and isn't already priced in?

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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by NoRegret » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:23 am

WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
$BABA and $TCEHY at your friendly neighborhood discount broker.

You asked a simple question. Here's a simple answer.

NR
Market timer targeting long term cycles -- aiming for several key decisions per asset class per decade

millenial101
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by millenial101 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:44 am

Robinhood recently started offering select foreign stocks that includes these 2 with free trades.

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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:19 am

WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
These 2 stocks are 27% of this fund

https://www.ishares.com/us/products/239 ... -china-etf

That's not a fully exposed play but if one is bullish on China, generally.

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BeBH65
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by BeBH65 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:22 am

Before you buy BABA make sure you know exactly what you are buying as you are not buying a direct share in ALIBABA. Do a search on Google and on this forum.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence).

columbia
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by columbia » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:30 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:19 am
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
These 2 stocks are 27% of this fund

https://www.ishares.com/us/products/239 ... -china-etf

That's not a fully exposed play but if one is bullish on China, generally.
If one really wants to roll the dice on China specifically, this seems like the way to go.

That’s not to be construed as an endorsement of said idea. :)

mouses
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by mouses » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:11 am

Note that Alibaba sells shark fins. These are cut off the sharks while they are alive and then the animals are thrown back into the water.

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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by CyclingDuo » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:40 am

WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
Not going in whole hog with STAB vs. FANG?

Sina (SINA)
Tencent (TCEHY)
Alibaba (BABA)
Baidu (BIDU)
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by WanderingDoc » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:41 am

CyclingDuo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:40 am
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
Not going in whole hog with STAB vs. FANG?

Sina (SINA)
Tencent (TCEHY)
Alibaba (BABA)
Baidu (BIDU)
I invest in VTSAX, but if you want to know the truth.. I abhor Apple and Facebook and everything they stand for.
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by inbox788 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:48 am

BeBH65 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:22 am
Before you buy BABA make sure you know exactly what you are buying as you are not buying a direct share in ALIBABA. Do a search on Google and on this forum.
Same when buying inexact proxies like AABA, that are a step further removed. It drove me nuts trying to figure out whether international funds were currency hedged or not, and I'm still not clear on the matter. A company can do well in the local currency, but the currency weakens vs the dollar, so as a dollar investment, it's a poor investment. If you look since AABA created in 2015-January 2017, was basically flat along with BABA. Since then, AABA has lagged. Depending on what you know or believe, AABA may be a better or worse investment than BABA. Just remember, at each step removed, there are risks and costs. Generally, the simplest most direct investment is the best. AABA is like a a superconcentrated active fund and hopefully the management is good at timing the exits (and entries) that's analogous to the public holdings at Berkshire Hathaway.
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:11 pm
With net revenue increase of 200% last 3 years, I don't see any red flags NOT to invest in BABA at this time. Thoughts?
Is this interest in Alibaba (and Tencent) a company specific play? A China Tech play?

China is the worlds most populous nation and 2nd largest economy with lots of growth potential. I'm guessing I'm probably underweight in my portfolio, but then I think about India and Indonesia. Japan (3rd) and Germany (4th) are probably underweight too. There may be a case to be made that 80% of my AA should be international, but I doubt I'll get past 50 (and I'm probably at around 25 and not moving much).

Alibaba founder Jack Ma says the US-China trade war is 'going to be a mess' and could last 20 years (BABA)
https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1027543478

While their increasing revenues is impressive, their profit margins is concerning.
https://ycharts.com/companies/BABA/profit_margin

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CyclingDuo
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by CyclingDuo » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:44 am

WanderingDoc wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:41 am
CyclingDuo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:40 am
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
Not going in whole hog with STAB vs. FANG?

Sina (SINA)
Tencent (TCEHY)
Alibaba (BABA)
Baidu (BIDU)
I invest in VTSAX, but if you want to know the truth.. I abhor Apple and Facebook and everything they stand for.
Apple is not part of FANG (Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google), but curious why you abhor everything that Apple stands for....? :?

What is it about Tencent and Alibaba that puts them on your list of "I don't abhor" companies?
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

WanderingDoc
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by WanderingDoc » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:55 am

CyclingDuo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:44 am
WanderingDoc wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:41 am
CyclingDuo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:40 am
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
Not going in whole hog with STAB vs. FANG?

Sina (SINA)
Tencent (TCEHY)
Alibaba (BABA)
Baidu (BIDU)
I invest in VTSAX, but if you want to know the truth.. I abhor Apple and Facebook and everything they stand for.
Apple is not part of FANG (Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google), but curious why you abhor everything that Apple stands for....? :?

What is it about Tencent and Alibaba that puts them on your list of "I don't abhor" companies?
FAANG.

There is a fundamental difference. Facebook and Apple embody and cater to specifically Western ideals and viewpoints ie. vanity, consumerism, entitlement, selfishness, focus on the individual over family, constant need for validation, etc. That is just my observation and I don't want to be a part of it.
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Cycle
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by Cycle » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:12 pm

mouses wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:11 am
Note that Alibaba sells shark fins. These are cut off the sharks while they are alive and then the animals are thrown back into the water.
They do have a diverse product offering, I didn't know they sold food items. I thought they mainly sold manufactured goods.

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CyclingDuo
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by CyclingDuo » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:39 pm

WanderingDoc wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:55 am
CyclingDuo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:44 am
WanderingDoc wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:41 am
CyclingDuo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:40 am
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
Not going in whole hog with STAB vs. FANG?

Sina (SINA)
Tencent (TCEHY)
Alibaba (BABA)
Baidu (BIDU)
I invest in VTSAX, but if you want to know the truth.. I abhor Apple and Facebook and everything they stand for.
Apple is not part of FANG (Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google), but curious why you abhor everything that Apple stands for....? :?

What is it about Tencent and Alibaba that puts them on your list of "I don't abhor" companies?
FAANG.

There is a fundamental difference. Facebook and Apple embody and cater to specifically Western ideals and viewpoints ie. vanity, consumerism, entitlement, selfishness, focus on the individual over family, constant need for validation, etc. That is just my observation and I don't want to be a part of it.
Got it. I understand both sides of the argument for SRI, but personally would disagree with regard to Apple when it comes to their core products (iMac, MacBook, iPad, AppleWatch, iPhone), business solutions, educational solutions, accessibility, TodayAtApple educational services, focus on privacy, focus on the environment, home solutions, and their charitable giving, etc... .

No point in choosing a side or chastising one for their choices with regard to investing based on SRI (socially responsible investing). We own the entire market through low cost index investing, so that totally rules us out as being socially responsible investors. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Anyway, my original question to you was not a suggestion to invest in FANG, but wondered why you weren't going in whole hog for the Chinese equivalent known as the acronym STAB (Sina/Tencent/Alibaba/Baidu)? Especially since they have all been knocked down with the correction in the Chinese market.
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

wolf359
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by wolf359 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:56 pm

WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:11 pm
With net revenue increase of 200% last 3 years, I don't see any red flags NOT to invest in BABA at this time. Thoughts?
Have you seen "The China Hustle?" It's a documentary that is on Netflix.

The red flag is that its reported numbers can't easily be substantiated from the US. We're reliant on whatever the management reports. In fact, it is illegal to do fact-checking on the ground inside China.

Alibaba has not been accused of fraud. But its IPO, management structure and company finances have been criticized by activist investors. Alibaba is operated by a Ma-headed management committee that has operational control but that is not answerable to shareholders. That controversial structure was rejected in Hong Kong, where the company initially sought to list. Hong Kong regulators argued that all equity holders should have equal rights. The split voting structure, however, was acceptable to U.S. stock regulators at the Securities and Exchange Commission. (This split structure DOESN'T make it a fraud. SNAP (SnapChat) also has a structure like this. Of course, I don't want to invest in that one, either.)

Alibaba has differed with financial analysts over definition of its gross merchandise volume (roughly the sum of all business transacted on its platforms), on share-based pay for executives, and the application of U.S. generally agreed accounting principles (GAAP).

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/can-w ... 2015-09-15
The Alibaba business model — an online market with mainland China headquarters, registrations in the Cayman Islands and an audit signed not by the U.S. firm nor even its mainland China office — should cause investors to pause immediately and apply a healthy dose of skepticism and caution.
Alibaba has been under SEC investigation. As of 2018, it was still ongoing.
https://www.inc.com/associated-press/al ... ation.html
https://www.thestreet.com/story/1427742 ... rowth.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2018 ... 857a650e04
https://deep-throat-ipo.blogspot.com/20 ... -call.html Comment: Blog from Muddy Waters Research about Alibaba. They're the guys who called out the Enron scandal.
Last edited by wolf359 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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sergeant
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by sergeant » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:52 pm

If you really believe all that you write about real estate, and I believe that you do, it makes no sense not to put everything you have into real estate. Good luck with whatever you decide, do let us know.
Lincoln 3 EOW!

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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:00 pm

I removed several posts which were derailing the discussion. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by NoHeat » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:52 pm

NoRegret wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:23 am
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.
$BABA and $TCEHY at your friendly neighborhood discount broker.

You asked a simple question. Here's a simple answer.
That's right. Trading these is exactly the same experience as trading anything else.

Compared to US stocks, though, it's worth knowing that ADRs sometimes result in additional (small) broker fees, after the purchase:

- fees for "custody": brokers sometimes these fees just to hold ADRs. I hold Alibaba (BABA) with three different discount brokers, and all of them have charged me this fee in the last year. I think it's typically about 0.1% of the stock's value each year.
- fees for processing dividends: Tencent (TCEHY) pays a tiny annual dividend, and I had to pay about 12% of that dividend back to Interactive Brokers as a fee -- it was not described as a withholding tax, so I'm guessing I won't get that money back as a foreign tax credit on my US income tax form.

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CardinalRule
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by CardinalRule » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:34 am

If you like China and these two companies in particular, consider the China MSCI ETF for a little more diversification. These two stocks are the biggest holdings.

https://www.ishares.com/us/products/239 ... -china-etf
WanderingDoc wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:00 pm
How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock directly? I know for sure I'm not the only one interested in doing this. I want to DCA into these stocks over the next 5-10 years.

donfairplay
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Re: How can I buy ALIBABA and TENCENT stock?

Post by donfairplay » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:58 am

NYSE: BABA, OTC: TCEHY (ADR) although this was already posted.

Do you own Vanguard Emerging Markets? Tencent (700:HKG) is 4.57%, Alibaba (BABA) is 3.37%; of the entire fund.

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