The joys of investing

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
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tennisplyr
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The joys of investing

Post by tennisplyr » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:11 am

Besides the obvious joy of making money by investing, what other things do you personally enjoy about investing your money in the market?
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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galeno
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by galeno » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:17 am

I enjoy the back and forth of this board and also Morningstar's boards.
AA = 40/55/5. Expected CAGR = 3.8%. GSD (5y) = 6.2%. USD inflation (10 y) = 1.8%. AWR = 4.0%. TER = 0.4%. Port Yield = 2.13%. Term = 34 yr. FI Duration = 6.2 yr. Portfolio survival probability = 95%.

rudeboy
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by rudeboy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:18 am

The educational value.

I have learned so much about the history of financial markets throughout the world. It is a very different way to view history from what I was taught by the state. The old saying is true -- numbers dont lie. Textbooks do.

retiringwhen
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by retiringwhen » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:30 am

I find that investing engages numbers (I love spreadsheets), analysis, human nature, risk-taking all in one ball.

On top of that, it is amazing that there are so many different human emotions and unique human situations to impact the investing process.

Overall, it is one of the more fascinating subject areas in life. It is funny, that even with a "boring" baseline like the 3-fund portfolio, all of these components can still be engaged profitably both financially and from a human perspective.

So folks here discuss Investing as a hobby and it can definitely be that and one that leads to life insights far beyond your bank account balance.

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Sandtrap
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:39 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:11 am
Besides the obvious joy of making money by investing, what other things do you personally enjoy about investing your money in the market?
Those that are fascinated by the mechanisms and dynamics of finance (and business) and how it relates to the world and life might find gratification that goes beyond the "money" aspect.
And, those who do not care for more than a shallow understanding of, "work. . . make money . . . spend money" will find it drudgery.
j

2015
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by 2015 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:40 am

I enjoy not having to think about it so I can turn my attention to things I personally find substantially more important in life.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:46 am

Annoying the local personal bankers who constantly try to tell me "I can do better" with them. :twisted:
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

Random Walker
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Random Walker » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:54 am

I simply find the markets fascinating. It amazes me that everyone’s knowledge, information, hopes, fears can consolidate into a single number: the price of a stock. Advancing technology and innovation make the markets increasingly efficient, but human nature continues to have a big effect no matter how the gizmology progresses. Charles Ellis wrote that he feels investing keeps him young, and I agree. Watching the markets, following the news, reading investing books, doing spreadsheets and math, and interacting on this forum all keeps me involved.

In school, I hated history. For investing, it’s very important to learn some financial history. I’ve enjoyed this. Moreover, it has opened the door for me to learn a little history for it’s own sake. There is a great short book called Wealth, Wisdom, and War by Barton Biggs. The book is about 3/4 WWII history and 1/4 history of how the stock markets around the world behaved at critical junctures of the war. The thesis is that the collective wisdom of the markets anticipated the turning points in the war better than any of the populations or protagonists could have. This book started me on reading a couple more books on WWII for their own sake.

Dave

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bottlecap
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by bottlecap » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:24 pm

Interesting question. I guess I don’t anymore. Investing is not joyful or painful. I hope retirement will be joyful, though.

JT

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GoldStar
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by GoldStar » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:31 pm

Meeting or exceeding my investment goals for the year makes me feel successful. This is the only joy I believe I get.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:34 pm

My investments aren't a form of entertainment for me. It was something I needed to do to get where I am, and that I need to do to keep going where I will be.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

Dottie57
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:48 pm

I didn’t enjoy investing until I found bogleheads. I’ve learned a lot. I invested in 401k and Roth IRA because I knew if I didn’t I would be up a creek without a paddle. I have done fairly well for a know very little investor.

It is most interesting to find the divergent opinions on asset allocation.

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tennisplyr
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by tennisplyr » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:10 pm

I like the challenge of using my smarts, temperament and what I've learned to make my finances work for us in retirement.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

Random Walker
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Random Walker » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:29 pm

tennisplyr wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:10 pm
I like the challenge of using my smarts, temperament and what I've learned to make my finances work for us in retirement.
Just like tennis, I think it’s important to play to one’s own strengths. I was an Econ and Biochem major in college, and when I think of market efficiency, I envision the model of perfect competition or chemical equilibrium. An efficient market resonates deeply with me. Thus I have a lot of conviction for passive investing. I’m very patient and can be disciplined. So I play to my strength by sticking to a plan based on passive investments.

Dave

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Sandtrap
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:34 pm

tennisplyr wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:10 pm
I like the challenge of using my smarts, temperament and what I've learned to make my finances work for us in retirement.
+1
Well said.
j

CarpeDiem22
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by CarpeDiem22 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:37 pm

Even since I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, I realised that owning appreciating assets will free me from a full time job. I wanted to be free from my job as I couldn't do two things at work that I love: reading books and travelling.

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DartThrower
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by DartThrower » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:09 am

Knowing that I can't consistently beat the market gives me a sense of humility. And yet I've done quite well over the years despite making some mistakes. This gives me a sense of gratitude to Jack Bogle, the Bogleheads and many others as well. There are so many people in my life who are on my side (and I'm on theirs).

Being humble and grateful and happy with the financial outcome makes me feel "ok" with how things have turned out.
A Boglehead can stay the course longer than the market can stay irrational.

MJW
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by MJW » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:41 am

I can't say I "enjoy" investing, as I view it as simply a means to an end. Maybe we're imagining the concept of joy a bit differently, but for me there is an emotional connotation to joy that I would not want to apply to something like investing. My portfolio has a job to do for me and that's it.

However, I do find joy in learning and have enjoyed the process of learning about investing through research and following many enlightening discussions on this forum and elsewhere.
Last edited by MJW on Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Portfolio7
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Portfolio7 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:39 am

Investing fascinates me. It's like fantasy baseball, but better, you don't have to come in first to win... in fact, doing average is great! But really, every asset class is so much like a baseball player, with different abilities (this one does well during deflation, this other one when interest rates are low, etc...), and different levels of expected performance relating to both risk and return. Also, an asset or baseball player can go so, so cold until you're convinced they're out for the count, but then suddenly rebound and totally blow the lights out. And any game now, you may run into Kershaw, Bob Gibson, or Greg Maddux. You take your lumps and come back the next day. In general, we build all-weather teams like the 3-fund portfolio, trying to capture the entire market of diversified skills/assets. Then there are specialized teams, such as those built for a particular stadium, which are fascinating to watch (especially when they so often crash and burn in the playoffs, a lesson for all our portfolios.)

Factors exist in both, whether you are talking OBP and FB% or value and size factors. Momentum appears to be present in both as well, but taking advantage of it is tricky in both arenas.

I suspect that if you know the playing conditions well enough (rates, currency, business cycle, employment, etc, etc, etc) one could juggle a variety of assets like a manager juggles a 25 man team, to try to optimize results... and like in baseball, it might work one out of ten times you try it, but that is a pretty good edge over a long season. I don't imagine more than a very small percentage of investors could ever succeed.

One sure thing in both cases.... buying and selling (or benching or starting) on a whim or from panic is going to put you near the bottom of the league. You need a plan that helps you deal with all possible situations, and you need to stick with it. Failure to do so will just cause widespread confusion, mistakes, and poor performance. How's that for a simile?
An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.

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Rowan Oak
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Rowan Oak » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:40 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:10 pm
I like the challenge of using my smarts, temperament and what I've learned to make my finances work for us in retirement.
+1
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger

Engineer250
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by Engineer250 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:19 am

retiringwhen wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:30 am
(I love spreadsheets)
The spreadsheet is my favorite part. I have I Fund in TSP but am trying to have a market weight portfolio. So I use a spreadsheet to balance my US vs International, and my emerging and international small cap. It will be a lot simpler when they update the I Fund and I just have 2-3 funds everywhere, but I'll probably still get satisfaction about plugging in the numbers and getting the updated percentages.

My spreadsheets also track my progress towards maxing 401k and Roths, and that is satisfying too, to see me closer to my goal every paycheck.
Where the tides of fortune take us, no man can know.

JBTX
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by JBTX » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:08 am

The actual act of investing is pretty inconsequential. I really don't do much with my portfolio.

In terms of the subject matter of investing, I like it because it blends finance, economics, accounting/tax plus behavioral aspects.

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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:13 pm

The hope that once I get enough money from investing, I can quit my full-time job forever.

Currently shooting for age 45, but it might take 5-10 years longer than that.

daveydoo
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Re: The joys of investing

Post by daveydoo » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:54 pm

tennisplyr wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:11 am
Besides the obvious joy of making money by investing, what other things do you personally enjoy about investing your money in the market?
A lot of us on this forum are experts at something, professionally. It's satisfying getting "good" at something. I'll never know when I'm "really good" or "good enough," but I already have more practical knowledge than every financial professional I've interacted with -- apart from one estate attorney. At first, that was terrifying but now I've come to expect it.

And it's not just that you can do it yourself -- it's that you can do it so much better yourself. A burger on the grill vs. McDonald's.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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