Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question [as a personal investor]

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chipperd
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Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question [as a personal investor]

Post by chipperd » Thu May 31, 2018 4:31 am

Hello all,
I noticed some changes on my online account at Vanguard, as I 'm sure many of you have. One negative I am seeing that is a change is the amount of time it takes for funds transferred in to Vanguard to become available; over a week. It seems to me funds used to be available within days.
Anyone else notice this change and thoughts as to why it takes longer now?

student
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by student » Thu May 31, 2018 5:26 am

I have not noticed it as I only do automatic investment at Vanguard. Do you need to do this often? My experience at other brokerage firms is that the money is available for trading (only) immediately after I have initiated a transfer. If it is not, they will let me do it if I call them. (I only did it one time.) So if this is not a regular occurrence, you may want to try calling them to see whether they can let you trade.

RickBoglehead
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu May 31, 2018 7:07 am

Unsure what you're asking, but in my Vanguard Brokerage accounts, I can BUY assets with my linked checking account immediately, i.e. today. The funds may not be received by Vanguard until tomorrow, and not show up until the next business day, but the purchase is made today.

If I transfer cash to my brokerage account today (i.e. not buy anything), it shows up tomorrow at Vanguard as I recall.

mpsz
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by mpsz » Thu May 31, 2018 7:27 am

I usually only make automatic investments at Vanguard so I have not experienced this firsthand. It wasn't like this earlier this year when I made a manual trade.

You should see "Funds available to trade" and "Funds available to withdraw" on your Vanguard account. If you transferred money in and it's not showing under "available to trade", then something is wrong and I would call them.

Sidney
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by Sidney » Thu May 31, 2018 7:32 am

Are you pulling the funds using Vanguard or pushing from your external source (presumably a bank)? I think it matters based on some prior posts I've seen.
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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by jhfenton » Thu May 31, 2018 7:45 am

I only "pull" funds into Vanguard, and those are available immediately for purchases and settlement of purchases. They can't be transferred back out for a few days, but that has always been the case. They need to make sure that the inbound ACH settles before they allow it to be transferred out.

Direct deposits from work show up on payday.

I haven't set up or tried any other "push" deposits.

retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by retiringwhen » Thu May 31, 2018 7:59 am

jhfenton wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:45 am
I only "pull" funds into Vanguard, and those are available immediately for purchases and settlement of purchases. They can't be transferred back out for a few days, but that has always been the case. They need to make sure that the inbound ACH settles before they allow it to be transferred out.

Direct deposits from work show up on payday.

I haven't set up or tried any other "push" deposits.
I agree, I have a bi-weekly pull via Vanguard with direct purchases into normally a MM and it is same day as you say.

I also have done many direct purchases manually a pull in Vanguard from the bank/credit union. those also settle immediately.

On the other hand, pushes from a bank/credit union into my Brokerage Settlement Account seem to take a few days. not sure if it is the bank or Vanguard. But once the money is there it is tradable immediately (I can buy a mutual fund) although as noted above it is not available for withdrawal for a week I believe.

I think this delay is something that has been instituted due to fraud issues with ACH. the more I see of the ACH process, the more dangerous it seems to be. I think it is a major area where the banking industry needs to think about security.

chipperd
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by chipperd » Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm

So, my original point was funds transferred IN TO Vanguard ie: from my bank to prime for example. Now takes over a week for those funds to be available. Used to take a day or two. Why the change?

retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by retiringwhen » Thu May 31, 2018 6:59 pm

chipperd wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm
So, my original point was funds transferred IN TO Vanguard ie: from my bank to prime for example. Now takes over a week for those funds to be available. Used to take a day or two. Why the change?
I haven’t done one this month but I did last month and it was only about 3 days.

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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question [as a personal investor]

Post by LadyGeek » Thu May 31, 2018 7:03 pm

This thread is now in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (general question). I retitled the thread.
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student
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by student » Thu May 31, 2018 7:12 pm

chipperd wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm
So, my original point was funds transferred IN TO Vanguard ie: from my bank to prime for example. Now takes over a week for those funds to be available. Used to take a day or two. Why the change?
I think others were asking did you initiate it at Vanguard, that is, click a button on Vanguard's site, or did you initiate it at your bank, that is, click a button on the bank's site. If it is the former, the consensus is that the money should be available to trade immediately but not available for withdrawal.

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Kevin M
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by Kevin M » Thu May 31, 2018 7:13 pm

chipperd wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm
So, my original point was funds transferred IN TO Vanguard ie: from my bank to prime for example. Now takes over a week for those funds to be available. Used to take a day or two. Why the change?
Available for what?

As people have explained, funds are available immediately to trade, but there is a 7-day hold (or maybe it's 7-10 days) before you can transfer the money out of Vanguard. I don't believe this has changed recently.

We are talking about buying shares of a fund (could be Prime MM or any other fund) at Vanguard using an externally linked bank account as the source of the funds. Is this what you're talking about?

Kevin
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MnD
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question

Post by MnD » Thu May 31, 2018 7:18 pm

chipperd wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm
So, my original point was funds transferred IN TO Vanguard ie: from my bank to prime for example. Now takes over a week for those funds to be available. Used to take a day or two. Why the change?
You need to be specific on two items. When you refer to transferring funds IN TO (your emphasis) Vanguard from your bank, are you initiating the transfer from your bank (push) or from Vangaurd (pull)? Secondly, what do you mean specifically by "funds to be available"? Available to trade or available to transfer back out again? Two very different things with different policies.

chipperd
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question [as a personal investor]

Post by chipperd » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:54 am

To answer inquiries: I am speaking of times when I "push" funds into prime MM from my bank (external transfer to Vanguard). Second inquiry: my account will say "unavailable funds" and list the date these funds will be "available" however Vanguard defines these two terms. 10 days is how long it will have taken before Vanguard will mark funds electronically "pushed" into prime from outside bank as available. Used to take about 3 if I recall correctly. Wondering why it's taking longer now for Vanguard to change the categorization of these funds from "unavailable shares" to available.

student
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question [as a personal investor]

Post by student » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:27 am

I don't recall I have ever pushed funds into Vanguard so I am unable to answer your question. Is there any reason that you prefer this setup rather than initiating the transfer from Vanguard side, that is, pulling?

retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question [as a personal investor]

Post by retiringwhen » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:09 am

chipperd wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:54 am
To answer inquiries: I am speaking of times when I "push" funds into prime MM from my bank (external transfer to Vanguard). Second inquiry: my account will say "unavailable funds" and list the date these funds will be "available" however Vanguard defines these two terms. 10 days is how long it will have taken before Vanguard will mark funds electronically "pushed" into prime from outside bank as available. Used to take about 3 if I recall correctly. Wondering why it's taking longer now for Vanguard to change the categorization of these funds from "unavailable shares" to available.
I am starting to wonder if it is source institution dependent. It seems like the pull experience described is pretty uniform but push is not, based on this thread and others I have read. Did anything change at the sending institution and do you care to share what institution you are Using? I only ever push from a local credit union that gets my net salary deposit. We received several push from UBS last year as part of an estate inheritance, but frankly the speed of transfer was low in our concerns and I couldn’t tell you how long. I need to move some money this week, I’ll give it a test from my credit union.

Update: I realized after looking back that I have NEVER done a push to the Vanguard. It has always been a pull except for cases where I physically mailed in a check (not very often). Sorry, I don't have any good data points. I realized this when I figured out I don't even know the Routing number for the ACH transaction to Vanguard!
Last edited by retiringwhen on Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

chipperd
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Re: Vanguard from a consumer standpoint. Question [as a personal investor]

Post by chipperd » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:06 am

I am wondering if it's institution dependent like you say or if it's a new standard across the board

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