more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

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oner
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more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by oner » Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm

Used the voice identification system and when I got the rep she claimed I had to go through the system again; this is the second time there alleged system designed to speed things up hasn't worked

do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?

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sperry8
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by sperry8 » Thu May 17, 2018 4:41 pm

oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
Used the voice identification system and when I got the rep she claimed I had to go through the system again; this is the second time there alleged system designed to speed things up hasn't worked

do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
I too recently learned about the ACH in hold with Vanguard. Wasn't an issue - but surely is something we should be aware of.

I had no issues enrolling into the voice password system today. There is however a 7 day hold on all monies post enrollment (to allow VG time to communicate with me that someone enrolled for this service). It was me - but they want to be double sure (fraud prevention). This was something I was unaware of but was really tough for me as I needed to wire monies today.

Further, if you do not enroll for the "my voice is my password" feature you must get an exception when doing a wire transfer and pass a knowledge base test. That, at least, waives the 7 day requirement for the wire transfer which, after passing, was allowed to be a next day wire transfer (since I missed the cutoff time).

It appears VG wants people to use this new voice feature and is making it 'difficult' for us if we don't enroll.
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Silk McCue
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by Silk McCue » Thu May 17, 2018 4:41 pm

Not good on having to go through voice recognition again. Did you ask why?

If believe if you have VG pull the funds from the bank for a purchase they will execute as if the funds are available but won’t let a trade happen after that for 3 days until it lands. Why ACH to rather than have VG pull?

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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by Fclevz » Thu May 17, 2018 5:13 pm

oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
I regularly move money from my bank to my Vanguard brokerage settlement account and there isn’t a three day delay.

In fact, I did it today and the money was available to trade immediately.

Is that an old fund-only account anomaly or something?

Freefun
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by Freefun » Thu May 17, 2018 5:19 pm

Fclevz wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 5:13 pm
oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
I regularly move money from my bank to my Vanguard brokerage settlement account and there isn’t a three day delay.

In fact, I did it today and the money was available to trade immediately.

Is that an old fund-only account anomaly or something?
Me as well. All my transfers have been available immediately.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?

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JoMoney
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by JoMoney » Thu May 17, 2018 5:19 pm

It's available to trade immediately, but not available to withdraw.
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goingup
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by goingup » Thu May 17, 2018 5:54 pm

oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
Used the voice identification system and when I got the rep she claimed I had to go through the system again; this is the second time there alleged system designed to speed things up hasn't worked

do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
OP-
Frankly I don't know how a policy constitutes poor service.
ACH from Vanguard takes T+2. Transaction day plus 2. I just did it this week.
ACH money to Vanguard is available same day to purchase. (Pull into Vanguard; don't push from your bank.)

I haven't tried voice ID yet because I do everything on line.

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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by PFInterest » Thu May 17, 2018 6:05 pm

oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
Used the voice identification system and when I got the rep she claimed I had to go through the system again; this is the second time there alleged system designed to speed things up hasn't worked

do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
you either keep doing multiple things wrong, or just really like to complain. or both
all 20 of your posts are just grievances.....

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Flobes
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by Flobes » Thu May 17, 2018 6:53 pm

oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank...
Nope. My (local) bank puts a four-day hold on all ACH transfers in. Policy is for for all customers, even the golden and platinum ones. Bank officers can provide a case-by-case override. They've explained it's because ACH transfers can be reversed and pulled back for three days.
oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
... if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
This has not been my experience.

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jhfenton
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by jhfenton » Thu May 17, 2018 7:29 pm

+1 to all the comments.

In my experience, Vanguard has the most flexible and liberal policies possible on available funds. They allow you to make mutual fund purchases directly funded from a linked checking account, or you can pull in the money via ACH and immediately use it for purchases. They also allow you to make ETF or stock purchases in non-margin accounts (even retirement accounts) and then transfer money in after the fact via (pull) ACH to cover it. (TD Ameritrade, in contrast, does not allow purchases before transfers in non-margin accounts--or at least not in retirement accounts.)

What you can't do is pull money in via ACH and then transfer it out immediately. That makes sense for Vanguard because ACH transfers are reversible for at least 3 days. And it makes no difference to me, because I have no interest in using a Vanguard account as a short-term conduit for money transfers. It's also standard practice at every financial institution I've used in the last 20+ years.

Good Listener
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by Good Listener » Thu May 17, 2018 7:59 pm

I did an ACH from Vanguard to Chase 2 weeks ago. I initiated it on Day 0 at 3 PM and it was in my Chase account on Day 2 when I woke up. Sometimes some people are too critical of Vanguard. We save so much money from their reduced fees that is worth tolerating a day or two of delays on occasion.

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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by AlohaJoe » Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 pm

In this day & age of massive fraud and account hijacking, I'm always surprised people are upset about having to spend an extra 60 seconds proving their identity.

Every time I've had a financial institution say "hm, this signature doesn't quite match the one we have on record, just a second" or "you don't quite look like your passport photo from 9 years ago, just a second" I've thought "wow, I'm glad they're being thorough! After all, if they weren't it would be easy for someone to come in with fake ID or a fake signature or a fake voiceprint and steal $1,000,000 from me."

Just last week I was at the bank and needed to do a $60,000 transfer to a 3rd party and they said my signature didn't match the one on file. I re-signed it and they called over the branch manager and after 20 or 30 seconds of discussing they decided the second signature matched. I appreciated that.

NYCwriter
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by NYCwriter » Thu May 17, 2018 8:39 pm

I haven't had issues with ACH transfers or immediate fund availability, and I make a few every month between my bank and Vanguard and Fidelity. I initiate transfers from VG.

Funds are sometimes available even when the transfer hasn't finalized. Whether funds are immediately available to trade may depend on the bank, the size of an account, or other reasons.

I haven't tried their voice identity, since I'm Deaf. I change my password regularly and don't mind any extra precautions. 2-f authentication and temporary PINs for 3rd party access is the norm for many places.

I HAVE encountered issues with authentication protocols on some sites, but it's rare. It's mostly frustrating for people who are not accustomed to it, don't have smart phones, use google authenticator etc. I actually think the voice verification is intended to make it a little easier for that group.

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KlingKlang
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by KlingKlang » Thu May 17, 2018 8:50 pm

I can write a check from my Vanguard Prime MM fund, deposit it to my bank checking account, and the funds are available the next day. Makes me glad that I decided to not use ACH anymore.

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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by Doc » Fri May 18, 2018 7:35 am

Re: ACH transfers

If you initiate an ACH transfer with a pull from your bank to your VBS account the money is available to trade immediately but not wthdrawl from the account. If you push the transfer from your bank to VBS it may take several days.

The time it takes to push from VBS may vary based on receiving bank policies and settled fund status at VBS.

Our two regional banks treat transfers from many financial entities as immeditly available. The only problem I have had with the immediate availability aspect was from the local branch of a national Bank for their own cashier's check. (They didn't have enough cash on hand. :P )
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by Pancakes-Eggs-Bacon » Fri May 18, 2018 8:00 am

Side note: I refuse to use any voice recognition system for authentication. Vanguard has it. I believe Fidelity does too. There is software such as Lyrebird or Adobe Audition (relevant article with example video: Popular Mechanics: New Software Allows You To Synthesize Speech In Any Voice) where, with a small sample of your voice -- say, from someone recording you speaking for a few minutes -- anyone can use software to mimic your voice and pretend to be you. This can fool voice password systems. Also, they are not fool-proof as children with similar voices can pretend to be their parents (citation needed).

There's just too much potential for fraud with these systems, and this will greatly increase in the near future, that I refuse on principle to enroll in these programs and will always prefer to use passwords/PINs that I can memorize or store securely.

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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by jebmke » Fri May 18, 2018 8:05 am

KlingKlang wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:50 pm
I can write a check from my Vanguard Prime MM fund, deposit it to my bank checking account, and the funds are available the next day. Makes me glad that I decided to not use ACH anymore.
I have been getting ACH transfers in 24 hours or less between VG and bank; and between bank and savings bank. I think most institutions have moved from nightly batch runs of ACH processes to multiple times a day. There really is no reason for an ACH to take longer unless that is what the institution wants.
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by mouses » Fri May 18, 2018 8:13 am

PFInterest wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 6:05 pm
oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
Used the voice identification system and when I got the rep she claimed I had to go through the system again; this is the second time there alleged system designed to speed things up hasn't worked

do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
you either keep doing multiple things wrong, or just really like to complain. or both
all 20 of your posts are just grievances.....
My sympathies with oner. The world is full of things that are done badly. Some of us point that out, in hopes, almost always disappointed, that the responsible parties will fix that.

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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by 2015 » Fri May 18, 2018 1:05 pm

AlohaJoe wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 pm
In this day & age of massive fraud and account hijacking, I'm always surprised people are upset about having to spend an extra 60 seconds proving their identity.
...
This.

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nisiprius
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by nisiprius » Fri May 18, 2018 1:16 pm

oner, I sense that you are pretty ticked off at Vanguard. Why make a post about "more rotten service from Vanguard?" If I seriously feel I am getting "rotten" service from a company, I'm outa there. Why not move to Schwab or Fidelity, and then make a few follow-up posts reporting on your experiences there?

So far, Vanguard has been OK for me. I'm fine with other people feeling differently. It's OK with me if you hear "Yanny" even though I know it is really "Laurel."
Last edited by nisiprius on Fri May 18, 2018 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard

Post by Munir » Fri May 18, 2018 1:19 pm

PFInterest wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 6:05 pm
oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
Used the voice identification system and when I got the rep she claimed I had to go through the system again; this is the second time there alleged system designed to speed things up hasn't worked

do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
you either keep doing multiple things wrong, or just really like to complain. or both
all 20 of your posts are just grievances.....
+1.

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nisiprius
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by nisiprius » Fri May 18, 2018 1:21 pm

P.S. There was quite an interesting episode of Planet Money, The Invisible Plumbing of Our Economy, mostly about the Automated Clearing House (ACH) system. Basically... it sucks, but nobody has any incentive to do anything about it.
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celia
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by celia » Fri May 18, 2018 1:30 pm

oner wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm
Used the voice identification system and when I got the rep she claimed I had to go through the system again; this is the second time there alleged system designed to speed things up hasn't worked
You must be compensating for me since, although I am enrolled, I haven't been asked to verify in about 6 months. (It might be because another family member also voice verified using the same phone number.) If this happens again, you might ask if they can record your voice again, since it may not have been captured clearly.
do you know that if you ACH money from Vanguard to your bank it's available once the funds hit your bank but if you ACH money to Vanguard it's not available for three days?
That sounds right. Your bank is probably not releasing it immediately if a large deposit was made recently and doesn't know if the check you deposited will bounce. But if you have enough money in checking, besides the recent deposit, it shouldn't have to wait.

Another reason is that maybe you are a recent (under a year) customer with the bank. They may not yet "know" your banking habits.

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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by sperry8 » Sun May 20, 2018 11:51 am

Pancakes-Eggs-Bacon wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 8:00 am
Side note: I refuse to use any voice recognition system for authentication. Vanguard has it. I believe Fidelity does too. There is software such as Lyrebird or Adobe Audition (relevant article with example video: Popular Mechanics: New Software Allows You To Synthesize Speech In Any Voice) where, with a small sample of your voice -- say, from someone recording you speaking for a few minutes -- anyone can use software to mimic your voice and pretend to be you. This can fool voice password systems. Also, they are not fool-proof as children with similar voices can pretend to be their parents (citation needed).

There's just too much potential for fraud with these systems, and this will greatly increase in the near future, that I refuse on principle to enroll in these programs and will always prefer to use passwords/PINs that I can memorize or store securely.
I agree and posted about this upthread as well. Sadly, if you do not enroll for the "my voice is my password" feature you must get an exception when doing a wire transfer and pass a knowledge base test. Exceptions may (or may not) be given. So if you anticipate ever needing a wire transfer - you may run into potential trouble without enrolling in this feature. But I do agree with you - I hated to enroll in it for the same concerns you voice. Pun intended :P
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by likegarden » Sun May 20, 2018 2:28 pm

I always had good service at Vanguard - since 2005.

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nedsaid
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by nedsaid » Sun May 20, 2018 3:36 pm

I do think Vanguard is running into some problems, particularly as it is awash in new monies. All the new business has strained Vanguard. What I will say is that even the best companies generate complaints and customer problems. We have read a lot about customer service issues but not so much from people that are very happy with Vanguard's service.

When I travel, I look at consumer reviews of the hotels where I stay. No matter how great the hotel, you always get the outlier comments that the place is a dive. So pretty much, I throw out the bad comments if the other comments are overwhelmingly positive. You always have the grumblers and complainers.

In the case of the original poster, Vanguard definitely has had issues. Too many threads here about Vanguard customer service problems. Hard to say what the percentage of complaints are compared to happy customers. Vanguard has work to do but probably no reason to take your money elsewhere.
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Re: more rotten service from Vanguard [ACH transfer, fund availability]

Post by criticalmass » Sun May 20, 2018 11:32 pm

If you make a pull transaction with ACH, the funds aren’t available for withdrawal for a few days. That’s true with most financial institutions, including vanguard.

If you make a push transaction with ACH, the receiving institution generally makes the funds available as soon as it arrives. That’s true with most financial institutions, including vanguard.

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