Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

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lhwerdyt*1791c
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Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:16 pm

Hello,

The Forum has already suggested a Schwab Target Fund (or a three fund) for in-retirement investing.

I met with Schwab and they recommended a Schwab Intelligent Portfolio (SIP) approach to consider as a lost-cost options: 0% in advisory related fees.

I reviewed at least some of the SIP posts on the forum and still have more to read. Some of such posts, and related links, identify a "cash drag" concern. An external link (I will have to find it again and include it here) identifies the same concern, and further offers an example how it could get costly.

Is this enough information for the Forum to further compare the two approaches?

Thx so much,

LH

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:21 pm

I'm with Schwab in taxable and so looked this over when the spam email came my way. My take on it was that the ETFs that they use to build and trade in are higher ER than what I invest in, so I closed out the email and went on with useful activities.

I am a fan of target date index/etf funds for people who are too afraid to rebalance a 3 fund once a year. It's better than paying for some adviser but of course is more expensive than simply buying those three funds and sitting on them for a year.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:23 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:21 pm
I'm with Schwab in taxable and so looked this over when the spam email came my way. My take on it was that the ETFs that they use to build and trade in are higher ER than what I invest in, so I closed out the email and went on with useful activities.

I am a fan of target date index/etf funds for people who are too afraid to rebalance a 3 fund once a year. It's better than paying for some adviser but of course is more expensive than simply buying those three funds and sitting on them for a year.
Thank you! Very helpful.

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:28 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:21 pm
I'm with Schwab in taxable and so looked this over when the spam email came my way. My take on it was that the ETFs that they use to build and trade in are higher ER than what I invest in, so I closed out the email and went on with useful activities.

I am a fan of target date index/etf funds for people who are too afraid to rebalance a 3 fund once a year. It's better than paying for some adviser but of course is more expensive than simply buying those three funds and sitting on them for a year.
PS: Do you prefer ETF vs. mutual funds? Seems that ETF are more sensitive to the market because they are traded as stocks but otherwise I'm not sure about any other difference. Forum posts on this include that there is not much difference between Index ETFs and Mutual Funds, unless I misunderstood.

Thx, again.

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patrick013
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by patrick013 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:17 pm

Image

I'm sure Schwab has it's reasons but like many robo approaches there's
non-investment grade bets involved.

Altho the 3-fund isn't exactly adhered to the above portfolio is my goal.
Yeah bond prices are falling and so are PE's and earnings growth. So
when stock returns are about half of history and bond returns returning
to equilibrium my better guess for an aggressive portfolio bought at a good
price is...

I had to adjust to a higher beta to get expected return over 5%. Expected
returns on stocks are low and yields on new bonds higher. Worst time on earth
to ask for advice IMO. Estimate is probably low anyway.

Schwab has some very excellent funds but double check their advice. It might
even be better who knows. It might even be hypothetical. But the above
does not include preferreds, high yield, or whatever, or excessive Intl.
age in bonds, buy-and-hold, 10 year business cycle

retiredjg
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by retiredjg » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:55 pm

What does the Schwab Intelligent Portfolio offer that you don't get with a Target Fund?

Do they say there will never be a fee to use the SIP? Have you considered the 0% fee might be a teaser fee?

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tfb
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by tfb » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:56 pm

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:16 pm
The Forum has already suggested a Schwab Target Fund (or a three fund) for in-retirement investing.
Remember Schwab has two sets of Target Funds. The older/original target funds aren't any better than SIP.
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:46 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:55 pm
What does the Schwab Intelligent Portfolio offer that you don't get with a Target Fund?

Do they say there will never be a fee to use the SIP? Have you considered the 0% fee might be a teaser fee?
Hello, and thanks for returning:

My understanding is that the 0% management fee is a feature of the SIP product, not a teaser offer. And I read reviews of the SIP that seem to describe 0% management fee as a feature. But I will ask Schwab about this.

I'll also ask them to explain more about, "What does the Schwab Intelligent Portfolio offer that you don't get with a Target Fund?" There were four advantages explained but these are from what I recall as I didn't write them down: more customizable (per their branded "Goal Maker"), tax wise (though our funds are tax deferred, anyway), ETFs are bought/sold on the market vs. mutual funds...



****

The reviews I've read also point out these ER costs, including:

"Schwab Intelligent Portfolio does not charge any management fees or commissions, nor does it charge account fees. However, customers must pay expense ratios based on the investments. Despite this, Schwab calculates that the weighted average for each risk level is as follows:

Conservative portfolio: 0.08%
Moderate-risk portfolio: 0.19%
Aggressive portfolio: 0.24%

These fees, even at the "aggressive" level, are competitive and favorable when compared to other robo advisors on the market, particularly because many of Schwab's competitors charge a management fee on top of these investment fees." End quote.

source: http://www.businessinsider.com/schwab-i ... nce-review


I also found the following issue at https://thefinancebuff.com/schwab-intel ... l#comments - in the comments section. (Only 18 comments):

"Actually, it is a two-time cost: at buy AND sell time. Depending on your holding horizon, it could be significant.
If you have a .30% Bid/Ask spread on a Schwab fund (an amount I have seen quite frequently), then you pay .30% extra going in, and lose .3% going out. If you’re talking about a fund with a .20% annual cost ratio, then, you’re essentially paying 3 years of extra fees to hold it. It’s not huge, but if you only hold it for a few years (4, let’s say), it doubles the cost of the fund."

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:10 pm

patrick013 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:17 pm
Image

I'm sure Schwab has it's reasons but like many robo approaches there's
non-investment grade bets involved.

Altho the 3-fund isn't exactly adhered to the above portfolio is my goal.
Yeah bond prices are falling and so are PE's and earnings growth. So
when stock returns are about half of history and bond returns returning
to equilibrium my better guess for an aggressive portfolio bought at a good
price is...

I had to adjust to a higher beta to get expected return over 5%. Expected
returns on stocks are low and yields on new bonds higher. Worst time on earth
to ask for advice IMO. Estimate is probably low anyway.

Schwab has some very excellent funds but double check their advice. It might
even be better who knows. It might even be hypothetical. But the above
does not include preferreds, high yield, or whatever, or excessive Intl.
Thanks for posting. Forgive me, being a novice, here, are you suggesting that Schwab double check their advice on suggesting consideration of their Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. a three-fund based on the beta estimated :?:

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Sandtrap
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 pm

. . . vs Vanguard Target Retirement or Life Strategy Funds?

j

Nate79
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by Nate79 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:45 pm

SIP has been reviewed and backdated in extensive past threads. It is a free robo service that includes tax loss harvesting as well as a value tilt.

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patrick013
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by patrick013 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:05 pm

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:10 pm
patrick013 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:17 pm
Image

I'm sure Schwab has it's reasons but like many robo approaches there's
non-investment grade bets involved.

Altho the 3-fund isn't exactly adhered to the above portfolio is my goal.
Yeah bond prices are falling and so are PE's and earnings growth. So
when stock returns are about half of history and bond returns returning
to equilibrium my better guess for an aggressive portfolio bought at a good
price is...

I had to adjust to a higher beta to get expected return over 5%. Expected
returns on stocks are low and yields on new bonds higher. Worst time on earth
to ask for advice IMO. Estimate is probably low anyway.

Schwab has some very excellent funds but double check their advice. It might
even be better who knows. It might even be hypothetical. But the above
does not include preferreds, high yield, or whatever, or excessive Intl.
Thanks for posting. Forgive me, being a novice, here, are you suggesting that Schwab double check their advice on suggesting consideration of their Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. a three-fund based on the beta estimated :?:
Well any stock index fund is supposed to provide returns.
I'm just saying general indexes. All investment grade.
It's hard enough to get people, if they can, to do even the
market portfolio which the Schwab tweak stuff probably
won't beat anyway.

So even simplicity, lack of non-higher risk investment products
is very good anyway.
Last edited by patrick013 on Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
age in bonds, buy-and-hold, 10 year business cycle

jminv
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by jminv » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:23 pm

The Schwab Intelligent Portfolio has a minimum 6% cash drag 'feature'. The portion held in cash depends on your responses to their risk survey. This is where Schwab makes their money and where you lose out on future returns. There's no free lunch with this product and the more conservative your responses to their risk survey, the more the cash drag will be.

You can deconstruct what your Intelligent Portfolio would hold and then invest in these holdings yourself to avoid the cash drag.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:59 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 pm
. . . vs Vanguard Target Retirement or Life Strategy Funds?

j
I hear you, J.

But we need in-person access due to a disability. So we chose between Fidelity and Schwab, and picked Schwab.

Thx!

LH

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 pm

jminv wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:23 pm
The Schwab Intelligent Portfolio has a minimum 6% cash drag 'feature'. The portion held in cash depends on your responses to their risk survey. This is where Schwab makes their money and where you lose out on future returns. There's no free lunch with this product and the more conservative your responses to their risk survey, the more the cash drag will be.

You can deconstruct what your Intelligent Portfolio would hold and then invest in these holdings yourself to avoid the cash drag.
I think the quote for us was 13%. But we are in-retirement.

Still, I understand what you are saying: No free lunch.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:20 am

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:59 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 pm
. . . vs Vanguard Target Retirement or Life Strategy Funds?

j
I hear you, J.

But we need in-person access due to a disability. So we chose between Fidelity and Schwab, and picked Schwab.

Thx!

LH
Good choice.
I'm with Vanguard but also am with Schwab because of their in-person access in Scottsdale.
Schwab's branch customer service has been exceptional.
j

billthecat
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by billthecat » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:00 pm

I use Schwab Intelligent Portfolio for my taxable account, and a target date index fund for my tax-advantaged account.

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raven15
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by raven15 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:38 pm

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:46 pm
I also found the following issue at https://thefinancebuff.com/schwab-intel ... l#comments - in the comments section. (Only 18 comments):

"Actually, it is a two-time cost: at buy AND sell time. Depending on your holding horizon, it could be significant.
If you have a .30% Bid/Ask spread on a Schwab fund (an amount I have seen quite frequently), then you pay .30% extra going in, and lose .3% going out. If you’re talking about a fund with a .20% annual cost ratio, then, you’re essentially paying 3 years of extra fees to hold it. It’s not huge, but if you only hold it for a few years (4, let’s say), it doubles the cost of the fund."
I doubt that is accurate. First you only assume you are paying half the spread with each transaction. It is split between buyer and seller. In your example you are paying 0.3% round trip.

Second, I doubt any Schwab ETF's (except possibly one or two very new or tiny ones) have a .3% spread. Usually you only see that if you are a noob looking after hours. For in hours trades I expect they are generally in the 0.15%-0.01% range depending on size and liquidity of the fund. So really you would be looking at much lower trading expenses than what you arrived at.
It's Time. Adding Interest.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:36 pm

billthecat wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:00 pm
I use Schwab Intelligent Portfolio for my taxable account, and a target date index fund for my tax-advantaged account.
Hello, billthecat -

Could you please explain how is the Schwab Int Port better for taxable accounts?

Thx,

LH

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:37 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:20 am
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:59 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 pm
. . . vs Vanguard Target Retirement or Life Strategy Funds?

j
I hear you, J.

But we need in-person access due to a disability. So we chose between Fidelity and Schwab, and picked Schwab.

Thx!

LH
Good choice.
I'm with Vanguard but also am with Schwab because of their in-person access in Scottsdale.
Schwab's branch customer service has been exceptional.
j
Thank you!

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:42 pm

raven15 wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:38 pm
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:46 pm
I also found the following issue at https://thefinancebuff.com/schwab-intel ... l#comments - in the comments section. (Only 18 comments):

"Actually, it is a two-time cost: at buy AND sell time. Depending on your holding horizon, it could be significant.
If you have a .30% Bid/Ask spread on a Schwab fund (an amount I have seen quite frequently), then you pay .30% extra going in, and lose .3% going out. If you’re talking about a fund with a .20% annual cost ratio, then, you’re essentially paying 3 years of extra fees to hold it. It’s not huge, but if you only hold it for a few years (4, let’s say), it doubles the cost of the fund."
I doubt that is accurate. First you only assume you are paying half the spread with each transaction. It is split between buyer and seller. In your example you are paying 0.3% round trip.

Second, I doubt any Schwab ETF's (except possibly one or two very new or tiny ones) have a .3% spread. Usually you only see that if you are a noob looking after hours. For in hours trades I expect they are generally in the 0.15%-0.01% range depending on size and liquidity of the fund. So really you would be looking at much lower trading expenses than what you arrived at.
Thank you!

billthecat
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by billthecat » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:10 am

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:36 pm
billthecat wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:00 pm
I use Schwab Intelligent Portfolio for my taxable account, and a target date index fund for my tax-advantaged account.
Hello, billthecat -

Could you please explain how is the Schwab Int Port better for taxable accounts?

Thx,

LH
Tax loss harvesting. That said, I’m not actually sure how the tax loss harvesting actually occurs. I only started last year but I didn’t see it sell the funds that had losses so I’m not really sure.

I could use SIP in my tax deferred account too but I didn’t want to run afoul of the wash rule (since the two SIPs would not be aware of each other), even if (supposedly) it’s not enforced.

Of course, I’m not an expert so I could be going about this all wrong.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:19 pm

billthecat wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:10 am
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:36 pm
billthecat wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:00 pm
I use Schwab Intelligent Portfolio for my taxable account, and a target date index fund for my tax-advantaged account.
Hello, billthecat -

Could you please explain how is the Schwab Int Port better for taxable accounts?

Thx,

LH
Tax loss harvesting. That said, I’m not actually sure how the tax loss harvesting actually occurs. I only started last year but I didn’t see it sell the funds that had losses so I’m not really sure.

I could use SIP in my tax deferred account too but I didn’t want to run afoul of the wash rule (since the two SIPs would not be aware of each other), even if (supposedly) it’s not enforced.

Of course, I’m not an expert so I could be going about this all wrong.
Thanks, again!

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:23 pm

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:42 pm
raven15 wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:38 pm
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:46 pm
I also found the following issue at https://thefinancebuff.com/schwab-intel ... l#comments - in the comments section. (Only 18 comments):

"Actually, it is a two-time cost: at buy AND sell time. Depending on your holding horizon, it could be significant.
If you have a .30% Bid/Ask spread on a Schwab fund (an amount I have seen quite frequently), then you pay .30% extra going in, and lose .3% going out. If you’re talking about a fund with a .20% annual cost ratio, then, you’re essentially paying 3 years of extra fees to hold it. It’s not huge, but if you only hold it for a few years (4, let’s say), it doubles the cost of the fund."
I doubt that is accurate. First you only assume you are paying half the spread with each transaction. It is split between buyer and seller. In your example you are paying 0.3% round trip.

Second, I doubt any Schwab ETF's (except possibly one or two very new or tiny ones) have a .3% spread. Usually you only see that if you are a noob looking after hours. For in hours trades I expect they are generally in the 0.15%-0.01% range depending on size and liquidity of the fund. So really you would be looking at much lower trading expenses than what you arrived at.
Thank you!
Hi. Based on my conversations with Schwab re: its Schwab Intelligent Portfolio (SIP), there is no management/advisor or buy/sell cost within the SIP other than ER costs.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:39 am

tfb wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:56 pm
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:16 pm
The Forum has already suggested a Schwab Target Fund (or a three fund) for in-retirement investing.
Remember Schwab has two sets of Target Funds. The older/original target funds aren't any better than SIP.
Hi. I should have clarified that I was referring to TD Index funds.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:42 am

<r><QUOTE author="patrick013" post_id="3819182" time="1520461061" user_id="100527"><s>
patrick013 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:17 pm
</s>
<IMG src="https://myphotos.mypclinuxos.com/images ... g]</s><URL url="https://myphotos.mypclinuxos.com/images ... <LINK_TEXT text="https://myphotos.mypclinuxos.com/images ... /half5.png">https://myphotos.mypclinuxos.com/images ... T></URL><e>[/img]</e></IMG><br/>
<br/>
I'm sure Schwab has it's reasons but like many robo approaches there's<br/>
non-investment grade bets involved.<br/>
<br/>
Altho the 3-fund isn't exactly adhered to the above portfolio is my goal. <br/>
Yeah bond prices are falling and so are PE's and earnings growth. So<br/>
when stock returns are about half of history and bond returns returning<br/>
to equilibrium my better guess for an aggressive portfolio bought at a good<br/>
price is...<br/>
<br/>
I had to adjust to a higher beta to get expected return over 5%. Expected <br/>
returns on stocks are low and yields on new bonds higher. Worst time on earth <br/>
to ask for advice IMO. Estimate is probably low anyway.<br/>
<br/>
Schwab has some very excellent funds but double check their advice. It might<br/>
even be better who knows. It might even be hypothetical. But the above<br/>
does not include preferreds, high yield, or whatever, or excessive Intl.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Thanks for your post, Patrick -</r>

lhwerdyt*1791c
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:04 am

Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon May 28, 2018 6:26 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:55 pm
What does the Schwab Intelligent Portfolio offer that you don't get with a Target Fund?


Hello Retiredjg. Here is more information based on a conversation I had with Schwab:
  • Target date index funds (TDIF) invests in funds.
    If choosing a Schwab TDIF, go with 2020, not 2025 as it is too aggressive. 2025 is also more aggressive than SIP. (My note here: They advised this based on same portfolio info I provided on blog. Blog here also suggested 2020 while keeping an eye on a younger fund as 2020 ages/matures, as I recall; will verify.)
    TDIF gets more conservative closer to date. Also, TDIF is more time sensitive than risk sensitive vs. SIP which more risk sensitive. (My question now: Isn't time sensitivity the same or close enough to risk sensitivity when looking at TDIF, i.e., the closer to date, the less in stocks, the less risk?)
    TDIF is less personalized than SIP bc the which is designed to identify an investor’s needs, goals and risks.
    The SIP continuously monitors, rebalances and builds whereas ITDF reallocates. (My comment here: This could be semantics?)
    In contrast, the Schwab Target Date Index (STDI), for ex, is date/time and allocation based vs. SIP bing income and growth sensitive.
    Both TDIF and SIP offer low ER costs with the STDI being lower. (My comment here: And there's not cash "drag").
Thing is, Schwab's TDIFs (inception 2016) and its SIP (inception 2015 or 2016?) are relatively new options. So not much basis to back test for comparatives in "growth and income".

Does this help answer What does SIP offer that we don't get with a Target Fund?

Thank you!

retiredjg
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by retiredjg » Tue May 29, 2018 7:24 am

Did you find that the SIP offers you something you want that the Target Date Index fund does not offer? If not, I'd just go with the target fund. If it ever migrates to a position that is too conservative for you, just exchange it (or part of it) to the next less aggressive date.

Nothing stood out to me in what you wrote, but you are the one who needs to be satisfied with what you buy. If there is something you like about the SIP, I don't see how it could be a bad choice as long as it is free. However, we've observed that several other Robos change things up a bit so do keep an eye on it to make sure it stays want you want.

Rebalance vs reallocate - I think that just probably means you rebalance between separate things (between the ETFs) and reallocation means changing the balance of things within one thing (within the one fund).

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Wed May 30, 2018 10:11 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 7:24 am
Did you find that the SIP offers you something you want that the Target Date Index fund does not offer? If not, I'd just go with the target fund. If it ever migrates to a position that is too conservative for you, just exchange it (or part of it) to the next less aggressive date.

Not really re the SIP offering anything more than the target date (TD) fund unless SIP robo technology turns out to be a better performing and equal or less ER cost than the TD. We won't know until the SIP has a 1-3-5-etc yr. history; and even then, yes caution as to applying past to future performance, etc.

And thanks for reinforcing this: If it ever migrates to a position that is too conservative for us, just exchange it (or part of it) to the next less aggressive date.

We have a related TD question. Since one can choose non-Schwab funds, we are also looking at Vanguard target dates funds instead of the relatively newer Schwab target date funds. We realize past performance data is not a guarantee of future data, but an thoughts?


Nothing stood out to me in what you wrote, but you are the one who needs to be satisfied with what you buy. If there is something you like about the SIP, I don't see how it could be a bad choice as long as it is free.

As to whether it's free, we've seen a lot of "press" that due to the cash "drag" (in her case, for ex, 16% with next to 0% interest) and higher ER costs (but still lower ER cost of SIP funds), it isn't free. We don't expect a free lunch; we just want to do better where we can.

However, we've observed that several other Robos change things up a bit so do keep an eye on it to make sure it stays want you want. point well taken!



Rebalance vs reallocate - I think that just probably means you rebalance between separate things (between the ETFs) and reallocation means changing the balance of things within one thing (within the one fund).
Ah. Thanks.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by retiredjg » Thu May 31, 2018 7:14 am

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:11 pm
We have a related TD question. Since one can choose non-Schwab funds, we are also looking at Vanguard target dates funds instead of the relatively newer Schwab target date funds. We realize past performance data is not a guarantee of future data, but an thoughts?
All things being equal, I'd prefer the Vanguard funds. I just like Vanguard and the Vanguard target funds do contain less cash than some of the other target funds.

But all things are not equal if you want the money to stay at Schwab. To my knowledge (I could be wrong), the only target funds you can get with no transaction fee at Schwab are the Schwab target funds (the original series and the index series). Even if there are others, Vanguard is highly unlikely to be available without a transaction fee.

Transaction fees (sometimes called commissions) are something to be avoided. If the transaction fee is very small and you only do it a few times a year, it could probably be OK. But that is usually not the case during accumulation.

Many things in investing only need to be "good enough". There is no way to optimize everything and there is no way to predict anything. Good enough actually is good enough. If my money were at Schwab, I'd be happy to use their Index Target Date funds and never give it a second thought.

I probably would avoid the SIP because it does not offer anything I am interested in. As someone said yesterday, robo investing is a new business model and things are likely to change. No need to go through that.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Thu May 31, 2018 9:23 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:14 am
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:11 pm
We have a related TD question. Since one can choose non-Schwab funds, we are also looking at Vanguard target dates funds instead of the relatively newer Schwab target date funds. We realize past performance data is not a guarantee of future data, but an thoughts?
All things being equal, I'd prefer the Vanguard funds. I just like Vanguard and the Vanguard target funds do contain less cash than some of the other target funds.

But all things are not equal if you want the money to stay at Schwab. To my knowledge (I could be wrong), the only target funds you can get with no transaction fee at Schwab are the Schwab target funds (the original series and the index series). Even if there are others, Vanguard is highly unlikely to be available without a transaction fee. Understood. We will look into this, at some point, without holding things up.

Transaction fees (sometimes called commissions) are something to be avoided. If the transaction fee is very small and you only do it a few times a year, it could probably be OK. But that is usually not the case during accumulation. Understood.

Many things in investing only need to be "good enough". There is no way to optimize everything and there is no way to predict anything. Good enough actually is good enough. If my money were at Schwab, I'd be happy to use their Index Target Date funds and never give it a second thought. Ok.

I probably would avoid the SIP because it does not offer anything I am interested in. As someone said yesterday, robo investing is a new business model and things are likely to change. No need to go through that. This is my feeling on this, too.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by billthecat » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:15 am

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:19 pm
billthecat wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:10 am
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:36 pm
billthecat wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:00 pm
I use Schwab Intelligent Portfolio for my taxable account, and a target date index fund for my tax-advantaged account.
Hello, billthecat -

Could you please explain how is the Schwab Int Port better for taxable accounts?

Thx,

LH
Tax loss harvesting. That said, I’m not actually sure how the tax loss harvesting actually occurs. I only started last year but I didn’t see it sell the funds that had losses so I’m not really sure.

I could use SIP in my tax deferred account too but I didn’t want to run afoul of the wash rule (since the two SIPs would not be aware of each other), even if (supposedly) it’s not enforced.

Of course, I’m not an expert so I could be going about this all wrong.
Thanks, again!
Just so you know, I’m unwinding the SIP and investing directly, so I can separate the bonds from the equity, and invest in bonds in my tax advantaged account.

It’s kind of a pain to unwind SIP, and convert my 401k and IRA. A lot easier than selling real estate though.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by Island John » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:41 am

I believe another difference between the SIP funds and the Target funds is that the Target funds rebalance the asset allocation automatically over time, from more aggressive to more conservative, whereas the SIP funds maintain whatever asset allocation you start with (unless you take the action to change the asset allocation.)

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:40 am

billthecat wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:15 am
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:19 pm
billthecat wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:10 am
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:36 pm
billthecat wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:00 pm
I use Schwab Intelligent Portfolio for my taxable account, and a target date index fund for my tax-advantaged account.
Hello, billthecat -

Could you please explain how is the Schwab Int Port better for taxable accounts?

Thx,

LH
Tax loss harvesting. That said, I’m not actually sure how the tax loss harvesting actually occurs. I only started last year but I didn’t see it sell the funds that had losses so I’m not really sure.

I could use SIP in my tax deferred account too but I didn’t want to run afoul of the wash rule (since the two SIPs would not be aware of each other), even if (supposedly) it’s not enforced.

Of course, I’m not an expert so I could be going about this all wrong.
Thanks, again!
Just so you know, I’m unwinding the SIP and investing directly, so I can separate the bonds from the equity, and invest in bonds in my tax advantaged account.

It’s kind of a pain to unwind SIP, and convert my 401k and IRA. A lot easier than selling real estate though.
Hello, and thx for information. Can you brief explain what's involved in unwinding SIP?

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:43 am

Island John wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:41 am
I believe another difference between the SIP funds and the Target funds is that the Target funds rebalance the asset allocation automatically over time, from more aggressive to more conservative, whereas the SIP funds maintain whatever asset allocation you start with (unless you take the action to change the asset allocation.)
Helpful to know. Thx, Island John.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by MnD » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:43 am

retiredjg wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 7:24 am
Did you find that the SIP offers you something you want that the Target Date Index fund does not offer? If not, I'd just go with the target fund. If it ever migrates to a position that is too conservative for you, just exchange it (or part of it) to the next less aggressive date.

Nothing stood out to me in what you wrote, but you are the one who needs to be satisfied with what you buy. If there is something you like about the SIP, I don't see how it could be a bad choice as long as it is free. However, we've observed that several other Robos change things up a bit so do keep an eye on it to make sure it stays want you want.

Rebalance vs reallocate - I think that just probably means you rebalance between separate things (between the ETFs) and reallocation means changing the balance of things within one thing (within the one fund).
I agree - I think either is fine but the target date index funds would have fewer moving parts and much easier to undo than direct ownership of a basket of ETF's via robo-advisor. Per the latest target index funds prospectus the net ER is now contractually 0.08% for as long as Schwab Investment Management Inc. remains the fund advisor. This reduction of ER .05% effectively rebates 100% of the acquired funds ER's (.05%). The small amount of cash is invested in Schwab Ultra Money Market series which is their lowest cost and highest yielding MM product and would require $1M minimum for an individual investment. The advisor is bound to a fiduciary standard.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by JamesSFO » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 am

I recently decided to give the Intelligent Portfolios a try (I'm 99% invested 3 fund) for two reasons (1) try out Schwab's customer service (so far middling to disappointing) and (2) because I was curious about the intelligent portfolio product.

I picked the most aggressive allocation and my weighted expense ratio 0.19% (vs 0.07% for rest of my portfolio) so a bit higher.

Having only been trying the product for <1 month it is hard to say much more about it. I think if I were going to do a roboadvisor (which I am :D) then picking Schwab for 0 additional direct fees (yes the cash drag) would be my choice.

(I don't find the cash drag that interesting because I usually have an emergency fund and so the ~5% or so in cash can just be part of that.)

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by retiredjg » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:12 am

JamesSFO wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 am
Having only been trying the product for <1 month it is hard to say much more about it. I think if I were going to do a roboadvisor (which I am :D) then picking Schwab for 0 additional direct fees (yes the cash drag) would be my choice.
Do you think the Schwab robo offers something better than the index target funds?

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by JamesSFO » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:40 am

retiredjg wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:12 am
JamesSFO wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 am
Having only been trying the product for <1 month it is hard to say much more about it. I think if I were going to do a roboadvisor (which I am :D) then picking Schwab for 0 additional direct fees (yes the cash drag) would be my choice.
Do you think the Schwab robo offers something better than the index target funds?
Potentially (compared to 3 fund portfolio since I don't have target date): tax loss harvesting (free and automatic at Schwab at $50K level)

Otherwise, to my mind no.

(to be clear, I feel quite fortunate that I can ultimately experiment with $50K as a negligible part of my portfolio and see what I think after a year or two.)

123
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by 123 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:26 am

A potential "problem" with Target date funds is the regular (but slow) change in asset allocation over time. Might be something you want but maybe you don't. There are a lot of fund-of-funds around, many from Vanguard (LifeStrategy, target date, etc) but also from Schwab, Fidelity, and just about everyone else. Of course some are target date but many are not. Many of them have the term "balanced" in their name but they many aren't balanced 50/50.

An advantage of a fund-of-funds versus SIP is that you can get more insight into the performance of the fund over time since they are well documented. One problem with running your own mix of funds/etfs (including SIP) is that for many investors it can just appear to be a hodgepodge of investments.

If you can find a fund-of-funds that works for you (doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough) you eliminate the cash drag of SIP and it's easy to see how you're doing.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by billthecat » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:43 am

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:40 am
Hello, and thx for information. Can you brief explain what's involved in unwinding SIP?
Well, you have two choices: you can unwrap the funds, taking them out of your SIP account and moving them to a regular account, or liquidate the funds within SIP and transfer the proceeds to a regular account.

The first option means that when you sell, you may have to pay transaction costs, depending on the fund.

The second option takes more time because the proceeds are trapped in the SIP account until the transactions settle.

I went for option 2, without realizing how much longer it would take. I submitted the form to close the account Wednesday 11 a.m. ET, which was then "received" Thursday, and the account is scheduled to liquidate Monday, and settle Wednesday.

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:22 am

MnD wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:43 am
retiredjg wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 7:24 am
Did you find that the SIP offers you something you want that the Target Date Index fund does not offer? If not, I'd just go with the target fund. If it ever migrates to a position that is too conservative for you, just exchange it (or part of it) to the next less aggressive date.

Nothing stood out to me in what you wrote, but you are the one who needs to be satisfied with what you buy. If there is something you like about the SIP, I don't see how it could be a bad choice as long as it is free. However, we've observed that several other Robos change things up a bit so do keep an eye on it to make sure it stays want you want.

Rebalance vs reallocate - I think that just probably means you rebalance between separate things (between the ETFs) and reallocation means changing the balance of things within one thing (within the one fund).
I agree - I think either is fine but the target date index funds would have fewer moving parts and much easier to undo than direct ownership of a basket of ETF's via robo-advisor. Per the latest target index funds prospectus the net ER is now contractually 0.08% for as long as Schwab Investment Management Inc. remains the fund advisor. This reduction of ER .05% effectively rebates 100% of the acquired funds ER's (.05%). The small amount of cash is invested in Schwab Ultra Money Market series which is their lowest cost and highest yielding MM product and would require $1M minimum for an individual investment. The advisor is bound to a fiduciary standard.
We feel most comfortable with the TDI fund approach for the same reasons, i.e., fewer moving parts and easier to undo. Thank you for the prospectus info, too. We will watch for any increase in ER.

How does the $1M minimum relate to the Schwab TDI fund?

What determines whether an advisor (Schwab, here, correct?) is bound to a fiduciary standard?

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:35 am

billthecat wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:43 am
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:40 am
Hello, and thx for information. Can you brief explain what's involved in unwinding SIP?
Well, you have two choices: you can unwrap the funds, taking them out of your SIP account and moving them to a regular account, or liquidate the funds within SIP and transfer the proceeds to a regular account.

The first option means that when you sell, you may have to pay transaction costs, depending on the fund.

The second option takes more time because the proceeds are trapped in the SIP account until the transactions settle.

I went for option 2, without realizing how much longer it would take. I submitted the form to close the account Wednesday 11 a.m. ET, which was then "received" Thursday, and the account is scheduled to liquidate Monday, and settle Wednesday.
I would have chosen option 2, too. I can't see keeping just moving the SIP funds to a regular account if SIP isn't working for the investor in the first place (in a SIP account). But, again, my learning curve is steep. :confused

I'm assuming you didn't have to pay any transactions costs in option 2??

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:43 am

123 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:26 am
A potential "problem" with Target date funds is the regular (but slow) change in asset allocation over time. Might be something you want but maybe you don't. There are a lot of fund-of-funds around, many from Vanguard (LifeStrategy, target date, etc) but also from Schwab, Fidelity, and just about everyone else. Of course some are target date but many are not. Many of them have the term "balanced" in their name but they many aren't balanced 50/50.

An advantage of a fund-of-funds versus SIP is that you can get more insight into the performance of the fund over time since they are well documented. One problem with running your own mix of funds/etfs (including SIP) is that for many investors it can just appear to be a hodgepodge of investments.

If you can find a fund-of-funds that works for you (doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough) you eliminate the cash drag of SIP and it's easy to see how you're doing.
Hello 123 - For some reason I did not receive notification of your earlier comment.

Yes, we will keep an annual eye on the regular/slow change in asset allocation over time, per retiredjg as I recall.
Just this week we learned about the term "balanced" so thanks for clarifying usage and context, i.e., know what the balance is.
SIP "feels" like a hodgepodge of investments.
We have chosen and invested in a Schwab TD.
Thx!

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:49 am

JamesSFO wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:40 am
retiredjg wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:12 am
JamesSFO wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 am
Having only been trying the product for <1 month it is hard to say much more about it. I think if I were going to do a roboadvisor (which I am :D) then picking Schwab for 0 additional direct fees (yes the cash drag) would be my choice.
Do you think the Schwab robo offers something better than the index target funds?
Potentially (compared to 3 fund portfolio since I don't have target date): tax loss harvesting (free and automatic at Schwab at $50K level)

Otherwise, to my mind no.

(to be clear, I feel quite fortunate that I can ultimately experiment with $50K as a negligible part of my portfolio and see what I think after a year or two.)

Hello, JamesSFO -
Sounds like SIP potentially would be good for a taxable account then given free TLH at $50K+ level. Something to keep in mind for taxable accounts. Thx.
It will be interesting to see the performance, etc, in a year or two. Thx!

lhwerdyt*1791c
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by lhwerdyt*1791c » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:23 am

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:23 pm
retiredjg wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:14 am
lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:11 pm
We have a related TD question. Since one can choose non-Schwab funds, we are also looking at Vanguard target dates funds instead of the relatively newer Schwab target date funds. We realize past performance data is not a guarantee of future data, but an thoughts?
All things being equal, I'd prefer the Vanguard funds. I just like Vanguard and the Vanguard target funds do contain less cash than some of the other target funds.

But all things are not equal if you want the money to stay at Schwab. To my knowledge (I could be wrong), the only target funds you can get with no transaction fee at Schwab are the Schwab target funds (the original series and the index series). Even if there are others, Vanguard is highly unlikely to be available without a transaction fee. Understood. We will look into this, at some point, without holding things up.

Transaction fees (sometimes called commissions) are something to be avoided. If the transaction fee is very small and you only do it a few times a year, it could probably be OK. But that is usually not the case during accumulation. Understood.

Many things in investing only need to be "good enough". There is no way to optimize everything and there is no way to predict anything. Good enough actually is good enough. If my money were at Schwab, I'd be happy to use their Index Target Date funds and never give it a second thought. Ok.

I probably would avoid the SIP because it does not offer anything I am interested in. As someone said yesterday, robo investing is a new business model and things are likely to change. No need to go through that. This is my feeling on this, too.
Hello, again -

Two questions.

First, I spoke with Schwab tonight re: any fees for buying a Vanguard TD fund from the Schwab account.

S charges $76 to buy, $0 to sell if it's a mutual fund. No "fee" if Schwab offers an ETF equivalent fund except for $4.95 cost; not sure if that's $4.95 once or when selling, too. I couldn't find a Schwab TD EFT; was looking in particular for a LifeStrategy (LS) fund. Assuming there are truly no LS ETfs equivalents, then seems she would have to have to move her current Schwab 2020 $ into a Schwab and/or Vanguard three-fund at a 60(B)/40(S) allocation, and rebalance every year, for ex. She's open to that, and knows she and I know she needs to get on with this. Any suggestions?

This brings up another related question.

My friend is also considering keeping Prudential Stable Value funds at Pru and moving the rest to the Schwab retirement account to achieve a 60%(FI)/40%(S) allocation between the two custodians. Two custodians not Bogle-ideal as discussed but she likes the 3% 6-month rate (good till July 1, 2018). The 60% would be fixed income at Prudential and the 40% would be equities in a Schwab total market equity (?) fund.

Why do you think? If she did this, is there a Schwab (or Vanguard) total market equity fund that she might consider?

At any rate, I think we are almost there!

Thx, again.

"LH"

MnD
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by MnD » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:53 am

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:22 am
MnD wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:43 am
retiredjg wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 7:24 am
Did you find that the SIP offers you something you want that the Target Date Index fund does not offer? If not, I'd just go with the target fund. If it ever migrates to a position that is too conservative for you, just exchange it (or part of it) to the next less aggressive date.

Nothing stood out to me in what you wrote, but you are the one who needs to be satisfied with what you buy. If there is something you like about the SIP, I don't see how it could be a bad choice as long as it is free. However, we've observed that several other Robos change things up a bit so do keep an eye on it to make sure it stays want you want.

Rebalance vs reallocate - I think that just probably means you rebalance between separate things (between the ETFs) and reallocation means changing the balance of things within one thing (within the one fund).
I agree - I think either is fine but the target date index funds would have fewer moving parts and much easier to undo than direct ownership of a basket of ETF's via robo-advisor. Per the latest target index funds prospectus the net ER is now contractually 0.08% for as long as Schwab Investment Management Inc. remains the fund advisor. This reduction of ER .05% effectively rebates 100% of the acquired funds ER's (.05%). The small amount of cash is invested in Schwab Ultra Money Market series which is their lowest cost and highest yielding MM product and would require $1M minimum for an individual investment. The advisor is bound to a fiduciary standard.
We feel most comfortable with the TDI fund approach for the same reasons, i.e., fewer moving parts and easier to undo. Thank you for the prospectus info, too. We will watch for any increase in ER.

How does the $1M minimum relate to the Schwab TDI fund?

What determines whether an advisor (Schwab, here, correct?) is bound to a fiduciary standard?
The ER should not be increasing. The prospectus states it will remain at net .08% as long as Schwab Investment Management is the investment manager. Unlikely that Schwab would stop managing their own fund.

The small cash portion of the fund is in the highest yielding "Ultra"class of Schwab money-market funds. If you as an individual wanted access to that same MM fund class you would need a minimum investment of $1M. Its just an aside. people mention the cash drag in Schwab funds so I was curious what the cash was in.

I believe all investment advisors are bound to a fiduciary standard to the mutual fund they are advising, but I did see it stated explicitly in the prospectus for this fund.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by retiredjg » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:26 pm

double post
Last edited by retiredjg on Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by retiredjg » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:38 pm

lhwerdyt*1791c wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:23 am
First, I spoke with Schwab tonight re: any fees for buying a Vanguard TD fund from the Schwab account.

S charges $76 to buy, $0 to sell if it's a mutual fund. No "fee" if Schwab offers an ETF equivalent fund except for $4.95 cost; not sure if that's $4.95 once or when selling, too. I couldn't find a Schwab TD EFT; was looking in particular for a LifeStrategy (LS) fund. Assuming there are truly no LS ETfs equivalents, then seems she would have to have to move her current Schwab 2020 $ into a Schwab and/or Vanguard three-fund at a 60(B)/40(S) allocation, and rebalance every year, for ex. She's open to that, and knows she and I know she needs to get on with this. Any suggestions?
I think there is a misunderstanding. There are no fees to buy or sell the Target Date funds at Schwab. At least, that is how I read the website.
This brings up another related question.

My friend is also considering keeping Prudential Stable Value funds at Pru and moving the rest to the Schwab retirement account to achieve a 60%(FI)/40%(S) allocation between the two custodians. Two custodians not Bogle-ideal as discussed but she likes the 3% 6-month rate (good till July 1, 2018). The 60% would be fixed income at Prudential and the 40% would be equities in a Schwab total market equity (?) fund.

Why do you think? If she did this, is there a Schwab (or Vanguard) total market equity fund that she might consider?
It won't work because there would be no way to rebalance. If she wants to go this route, she should try to leave 50% at Prudential in the stable value fund and put 10% into a Schwab Total Bond Index and 40% into the Schwab Total Stock Index.

rixer
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Re: Schwab Intelligent Portfolio vs. Schwab Target Fund

Post by rixer » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:47 pm

I'm with Schwab and use Vanguard Lifestrategy in all accounts. Since I'm retired and don't contribute anymore, there was only a one time fee for purchasing and now we only sell as needed with NO fee at all. Works great for us so far.

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