Size of TIAA vs AIG? Would TIAA be in Dow if for-profit?

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nisiprius
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Size of TIAA vs AIG? Would TIAA be in Dow if for-profit?

Post by nisiprius »

My wife was asking me about this. I'm all but illiterate when it comes to accounting and balance sheets. Here's what I've found Comments welcome. In particular, is "total assets" really a sensible thing to compare?

TIAA is pretty big.

The glossy 2007 Annual Review says "the TIAA-CREF group" has $420 billion in "combined assets." They say elsewhere that "More than 500,000 retirees received a combined $10 billion in income from our company in 2007."

Yahoo Finance's AIG Balance Sheet shows $1.05 trillion in "total assets."

The Forbes 2000 list of the "world's biggest companies" does not include TIAA*, presumably because they're a nonprofit. It's not clear how they calculate their "composite rank" under which AIG is #18. Screening for U. S. companies, sorting by "total assets," and counting by hand, I get AIG as ranking #5, while Hartford Financial services, with $360 billion in total assets, ranks #16. I conclude that if TIAA were listed, it would rank #15 in total assets (unless there are other nonprofit megagiants?)

Looking at the total world, the Bank of Nova Scotia ranks #53, if I'm counting correctly, so TIAA would be not quite in the top fifty for the whole world. The largest, Royal Bank of Scotland, has $3,807 or about eight times as much as TIAA.

So, based on "total assets," I conclude that TIAA is half the size of AIG. It's smaller, but, roughly in the same league, as MetLife and Prudential. It is larger than WaMu or Countrywide Financial!

Spot-checking some Dow Jones companies, it has more total assets than AT&T, ExxonMobil (!) (Just readin' what Forbes says, that must be the U. S. part of the company only), General Electric, General Motors, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, Kraft Foods, McDonald's, Microsoft, Wal*Mart Stores, Walt Disney, etc.

I don't know what TIAA numbers to use as surrogates for "sales," "profits," or "market value." Nor do I know how Dow Jones decides what companies to include. Since the only insurance company that (was) in the Dow was AIG, and since MetLife, Prudential, and Hartford are not, I suppose TIAA wouldn't be in the Dow if it were for-profit, but it is obviously a darned big company.



*(U. S. companies listed alphabetically by name goes "Thornburg Mortgage," "3M[sic... presumably alphabetized as 'Three M'"], "Time Warner," skipping over "TIAA," and from "TD Ameritrade" to "Time Warner," skipping over "Teachers'")
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
gassert
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Post by gassert »

+1
Last edited by gassert on Fri May 14, 2010 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Levett
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Post by Levett »

Good guess by Gassert. It's number 86. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... 10606.html

Thankfully, it's a private company and not subject to the vagaries of speculators, short sellers, and the like. Bob U.

Edit: just noticed that at its homepage TIAA listed total assets as $435 Billion as of the end of '07.

TIAA-CREF is a Fortune 100 financial services company that is the leading retirement system for people who work in the academic, research, medical and cultural fields. With over $435 billion in combined assets under management (12/31/07), TIAA-CREF serves 3.4 million active and retired employees of more than 15,000 institutions.
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Post by nisiprius »

bob u. wrote:Good guess by Gassert. It's number 86. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... 10606.html
Thanks for the linkk! Next question: when I click on the "see all" link under "Competitors," under "Industry: Insurance: Life, Health (mutual)" I get a list of twelve companies, New York Life at the top, Knights of Columbus at the bottom, and AIG nowhere to be seen. Does this mean that AIG's life insurance subsidaries are actually relatively small potatoes?
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Levett
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Post by Levett »

Nisiprius--

Just stumbled on your post. Here's some info re AIG assets I posted at the TIAA M* site (AIGs assets are the subject of a piece in this week's Business Week).

AIGs assets (available for sale) are the subject of an article in the October 6 issue of Businessweek.

Here's a link, but unfortunately its chart of AIGs "Crown Jewels" has been shortened from the print issue. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 665317.htm

Apparently, the two most valuable assets AIG has to sell are Foreign Life Insurance (currently valued at $24 billion) and its annuity businesses (currently valued at $12.3 billion). Bob U.
There are some things that count that can't be counted, and some things that can be counted that don't count.
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