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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:40 pm
by furnace
Please use some common sense. Why wait until the last 15 minutes to cram into their website, on the busiest day in years? If you want easy access, go to a brokerage known for speed, or get into VG earlier in the day. :oops:

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:42 pm
by cherijoh
DemoEngr wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:10 pm I was in and out multiple times on Schwab, did not do anything but I was curious if based on events and volumes. Maybe I was lucky but no issues with platform.
So it was lookie-loos like you that caused all the problems today! :wink:

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:44 pm
by whodidntante
Vanguard's site is usually some degree of crashed.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:49 pm
by Allocationist
Just one of many reasons I moved from Vanguard to Schwab. Placed several buy orders without any problem on Schwab.

IMO Vanguard is way behind the curve on technology- perhaps to try and keep fees low. Oddly, many of Schwab's fee are now lower than Vanguard.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:51 pm
by tesuzuki2002
DriftWood wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:51 pm I can't log in. Anyone else has the same issue?
Blew off some steam today finally!!!

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:51 pm
by Eric76
Seasonal wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:04 pm
sport wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:51 pm Vanguard has millions of account owners. If a substantial percentage of them try to access the web site at the same time, that would be enough to bring down most any site.
Apparently it was not enough to bring down other sites with millions of account owners, such as Fidelity.
I couldn't get on to my Edge account at 3:50.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:57 pm
by zx14rr
Inability to login was not the only problem as even if you were logged in, whatever you were trying to do the subsequent page wouldn't load.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:00 pm
by GLState
According to MarketWatch, Betterment, Wealthfront, Schwab, TDAmeritrade, and others also had outages today.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/as-ma ... 2018-02-05

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:06 pm
by linenfort
greg24 wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:26 pm I demand the site is up so that I can execute my panic trading.
:D

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:12 pm
by rudeboy
GLState wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:00 pm According to MarketWatch, Betterment, Wealthfront, Schwab, TDAmeritrade, and others also had outages today.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/as-ma ... 2018-02-05
Iinteresting. I bought with HSA funds at TD Ameritrade at peak carnage without any problems.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:16 pm
by celia
Rudeboy, Yes, some people could get in, but not everyone at once.

We talked to them earlier in the day and the RMD we wanted to take In-kind had to be done by faxing a form, just as in past years. So we went to 2 different copy stores to use the fax but kept getting the message to not dial "1" before the area code, but it wouldn't go through that way either. I suspected the local fax machines were trying to say "the receiving queue is full so try another time".

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:21 pm
by Grt2bOutdoors
cutehumor wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:16 pm Sell! Sell! Stock is gonna drop another ten percent this week by this Friday! :twisted:
Great! My automatic investment is going in this week.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:48 pm
by kotsp
People plan on buying in this dip, please read this https://www.marketwatch.com/story/morga ... yptr=yahoo

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:55 pm
by oldcomputerguy
AZAttorney11 wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:38 pm Whether one was looking to buy, sell, rebalance, or simply check the status of their account or other activity, it is inexcusable for an entire platform to be unavailable during regular market hours. Pathetic technology and reliability on full display from Vanguard today.
For what it’s worth, apparently Vanguard was not alone. CNBC is reporting that T. Rowe Price and TD Ameritrade also crumbled under the load.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:56 pm
by willthrill81
kotsp wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:48 pm People plan on buying in this dip, please read this https://www.marketwatch.com/story/morga ... yptr=yahoo
They are recommending valuation-based and subjective market timing. Even though I'm a trend follower (rules-based, completely objective), that's terrible advice.

A 'true' Boglehead should keep doing what they've been doing before and not change anything. Most of those who are scrambling to buy or sell are revealing that they are not completely sold on the Boglehead philosophy. For the record, I'm not either.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm
by oldcomputerguy
furnace wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:40 pm Please use some common sense. Why wait until the last 15 minutes to cram into their website, on the busiest day in years? If you want easy access, go to a brokerage known for speed, or get into VG earlier in the day. :oops:
Or you could just leave it alone, stay the course, and go have a beer.
:beer

vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm
by sambb
[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Given the vanguard website crash (not seen in fidelity or schwab), is this yet another example of the IT risk with vanguard? Does this mean we should diversify to more than one firm? Concerning?

Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:58 pm
by RRAAYY3

Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:04 pm
by tesuzuki2002
sambb wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm Given the vanguard website crash (not seen in fidelity or schwab), is this yet another example of the IT risk with vanguard? Does this mean we should diversify to more than one firm? Concerning?
I mean if you want to put that in your IPS and do that... you could... I don't want complication.

Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:07 pm
by willthrill81
Numerous platforms experienced outages today. Most of these sites are not just equipped to have so many people on simultaneously. I don't think that diversifying across platforms is a bad idea, but I don't see it as a very needful one either. Unless you're trying to follow the herd, it's unlikely that the site will be down when you truly need to trade.

Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:13 pm
by rkhusky
If the web site is down and you really want to execute a trade, you can always mail a check to Vanguard or provide trade instructions in a memo.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:15 pm
by bikechuck
Today it was Vanguard's turn to experience problems with their platform. The next time it could happen to ABC company or XYZ, eventually it will visit most companies at one time or another.

Unless it becomes a recurring issue this is more of an argument to distribute your holdings across more than one investment firm and more than one bank which is exactly what I have done some time ago.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:17 pm
by bondsr4me
oldcomputerguy wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm
furnace wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:40 pm Please use some common sense. Why wait until the last 15 minutes to cram into their website, on the busiest day in years? If you want easy access, go to a brokerage known for speed, or get into VG earlier in the day. :oops:
Or you could just leave it alone, stay the course, and go have a beer.
:beer
+1

Dilly dilly

Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:17 pm
by MindBogler
Systems get overloaded sometimes, this isn't a risk if you aren't trying to panic sell with the rest of the herd.

Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:19 pm
by Shallowpockets
This is akin to all those Venezualans going to the bank at the same time to get their allowed $30 withdrawal. Never thought it would, could happen, until it does. Good thing you all don't even really need your money. Then again, if you did...
Such is our modern money system and computer algorithms with trigger points unrelated to human input once in play. Humans are too slow. We will see what happens tomorrow. I am sure those who want a look see at their money will be trying to look at their money. Not BHs.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:25 pm
by LadyGeek
I merged sambb's thread into here.

Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:35 pm
by rec7
[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

I know Vanguard crashed today but did other brokerages?

Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:40 pm
by livesoft
WellsTrade and TDAmeritrade worked as usual for me today. I didn't try Vanguard nor Fidelity.

Also what do you mean by "crashed"? Was it just slow, unresponsive, locked up, or your browser said it was inaccessible?

Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:42 pm
by GLState

Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:47 pm
by rec7
livesoft wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:40 pm WellsTrade and TDAmeritrade worked as usual for me today. I didn't try Vanguard nor Fidelity.

Also what do you mean by "crashed"? Was it just slow, unresponsive, locked up, or your browser said it was inaccessible?
inaccessible for me the last 10 minutes of the day.

Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:50 pm
by runner23
Prudential retirement worked for me to rebalance 401k order at 3:15. I logged out and wanted to review order at 3:30 to confirm. Couldn’t get logged in between 3:30 and market close. Checked tonight and got transaction confirmation.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:53 pm
by itstoomuch
I wonder how one can keep this thread "actionable?" :mrgreen:

Although I was on the train, I did have data service. My broker had slow service and I had questions if it was blind spots on the track route or if it was something other. I am going to ask for some " free trades".

Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:59 pm
by kappy
I was able to place a buy order of VTSAX right after 3pm today from my iPhone app. When was it down?

Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:09 pm
by rec7
I heard others say Scottrade worked fine.

Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:10 pm
by rec7
kappy wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:59 pm I was able to place a buy order of VTSAX right after 3pm today from my iPhone app. When was it down?
I was not able to get in 10-15 before the close and not several minutes after the close.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:14 pm
by MFInvestor
by Mithrilman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:12 pm
I'm a bit surprised this didn't become a news item. I can't seem to find any mention of it.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting tonight:

(Bogleheads mentioned in the article)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/investment ... ge=1&pos=1

Investment Firms Suffer Website Outages
T. Rowe Price, Vanguard among groups affected as Dow closes down more than 1,170 points


"Many Vanguard Group customers were unable to log into their accounts Monday afternoon. Several posted on Twitter and on bogleheads.org, a popular online investing forum named after company founder John C. Bogle, that they couldn’t see their account balances or trade Monday afternoon.

Some said they were met with messages that account information was “temporarily unavailable” or that the page they requested couldn’t be found. “I can’t log in,” one investor wrote on bogleheads.org of Vanguard’s system, and asked whether others were having the same issue. It appeared that many were. Another poster wrote, “It is a bit unsettling” to not be able to login.

A spokeswoman for Vanguard said that some clients might have experienced “sporadic difficulty” accessing their accounts at Vanguard.com or by phone. “Full access has been restored,” the spokeswoman said."

Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:17 pm
by hawkfan55
I was not able to get in 10-15 before the close and not several minutes after the close.
+1

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:27 pm
by Doom&Gloom
One thing I learned, vicariously thankfully, from the 1987 crash was that if you couldn't get an order placed due to overwhelming demand that you probably didn't want to have it executed anyway--either at that time or at your earliest opportunity. Of course, YMMV and things could well be different now or in the future.

Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:02 pm
by mpsz
Every broker that I would ever use has had some form of an outage in the last year "Stuff" happens and this is why I will always have assets at multiple firms.
MindBogler wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:17 pm Systems get overloaded sometimes, this isn't a risk if you aren't trying to panic sell with the rest of the herd.
What about panic rebalancing? :mrgreen:

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:05 pm
by LadyGeek
I moved rec7's post into here. The combined thread is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:06 pm
by drk
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:33 pm
themesrob wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:32 pm I wasn't planning on doing any trading today, but I find it utterly incomprehensible that some folks would make light of an entire platform going down and people being unable to place orders. That's not acceptable on any day. But sure, lolz panic trading
Yes, it doesn't raise one's confidence in Vanguard's operations. I wonder if any other platforms went down today.
Yes. I had trouble accessing TDA around the time of today's flash crash, and Bloomberg had an article about Wealthfront and Betterment being inaccessible.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:17 pm
by BolderBoy
For all anyone knows, there could have been enough legitimate activity bunched up to look like a DDOS attack, so VG's servers did the right thing and funneled all login attempts to the bit bucket.

Re: Can't signon to Vanguard

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:22 pm
by zaboomafoozarg
Mithrilman wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:52 pm [merged this topic and replies into the existing thread - moderator prudent]

Anyone else? Not a buyer or a seller today, but it is a bit unsettling to not be able to logon...
Congrats, you got quoted in the WSJ :D

"Many Vanguard Group customers were unable to log into their accounts Monday afternoon. Several posted on Twitter and on bogleheads.org, a popular online investing forum named after company founder John C. Bogle, that they couldn’t see their account balances or trade Monday afternoon.

Some said they were met with messages that account information was “temporarily unavailable” or that the page they requested couldn’t be found. “I can’t log in,” one investor wrote on bogleheads.org of Vanguard’s system, and asked whether others were having the same issue. It appeared that many were. Another poster wrote, “It is a bit unsettling” to not be able to login."

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:36 pm
by beyou
zx14rr wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:22 pm What a joke Vanguard is. Can't even afford a computer system that works. I don't know about any of you but I have seen a continuous downgrade of caring about clients starting with Jack Brennan and then accelerating under Bill McNabb. Assets under management is all Vanguard cares about. Maybe Vanguard should use a little of the advertising budget to spend on a computer system.
You get what you pay for. They wont get the best IT staff, just the ones willing to work at salaries they can afford.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:43 pm
by asif408
My question is why so many Bogleheads were trying to login today? I understand why the unwashed masses logged in, but I thought Bogleheads were better than that. If you have an appropriate allocation there is no need to login today, or tomorrow, or next week. Just a few times a year should be plently enough. We haven't even hit a 10% drop, so it's highly unlikely anyone had a need to login and make a purchase because they hit rebalancing bands. The only reason anyone would have logged in today would be because they had a portfolio that was too risky and decided to capitulate and sell their stocks.

If and/or when we get down 20, 30, or 40%, then you have my permission to login and begin buying some more stocks.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:53 pm
by Alchemist
asif408 wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:43 pm My question is why so many Bogleheads were trying to login today? I understand why the unwashed masses logged in, but I thought Bogleheads were better than that. If you have an appropriate allocation there is no need to login today, or tomorrow, or next week. Just a few times a year should be plently enough. We haven't even hit a 10% drop, so it's highly unlikely anyone had a need to login and make a purchase because they hit rebalancing bands. The only reason anyone would have logged in today would be to capitulate and sell their stocks.

If and/or when we get down 20, 30, or 40%, then you have my permission to login and begin buying some more stocks.
Whether people were being wise/foolish is not the point. The point is that a brokerage company should not have their website crash in the middle of the business day. No one wants nor should expect to see crippling IT issues at the place holding the bulk of their net worth. Such concerns are what has driven many bogleheads (myself included) away from holding their investments at Vanguard and instead moving to other brokerage companies.


Interestingly Fidelity is saying most of their retail customers were buying, not selling today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/05/fidelit ... lunge.html

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:56 pm
by weltschmerz
deleted

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:17 pm
by Doom&Gloom
Alchemist wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:53 pm
asif408 wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:43 pm My question is why so many Bogleheads were trying to login today? I understand why the unwashed masses logged in, but I thought Bogleheads were better than that. If you have an appropriate allocation there is no need to login today, or tomorrow, or next week. Just a few times a year should be plently enough. We haven't even hit a 10% drop, so it's highly unlikely anyone had a need to login and make a purchase because they hit rebalancing bands. The only reason anyone would have logged in today would be to capitulate and sell their stocks.

If and/or when we get down 20, 30, or 40%, then you have my permission to login and begin buying some more stocks.
Whether people were being wise/foolish is not the point. The point is that a brokerage company should not have their website crash in the middle of the business day. No one wants nor should expect to see crippling IT issues at the place holding the bulk of their net worth. Such concerns are what has driven many bogleheads (myself included) away from holding their investments at Vanguard and instead moving to other brokerage companies.


Interestingly Fidelity is saying most of their retail customers were buying, not selling today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/05/fidelit ... lunge.html
I, for one, am skeptical.

edit: I have accounts at Fidelity, Vanguard, and Schwab.

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:15 am
by momo54
I spoke to a rep around 8:30 pm this evening after a 45 minute wait and inquired about the inability to contact them on the phone and the web site being down. I don't quite understand his lingo but his explanation to me was they have a lot of new people on the {front end} and they had a lot of retail investors with flagship membership panicking .

Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:28 am
by woof755
asif408 wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:43 pm My question is why so many Bogleheads were trying to login today? I understand why the unwashed masses logged in, but I thought Bogleheads were better than that. If you have an appropriate allocation there is no need to login today, or tomorrow, or next week. Just a few times a year should be plently enough. We haven't even hit a 10% drop, so it's highly unlikely anyone had a need to login and make a purchase because they hit rebalancing bands. The only reason anyone would have logged in today would be because they had a portfolio that was too risky and decided to capitulate and sell their stocks.

If and/or when we get down 20, 30, or 40%, then you have my permission to login and begin buying some more stocks.
I don't seek your permission to do anything with my money. Who are you to question the motives of other smart investors, like yourself?