Vanguard site is crashed now?

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furnace
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by furnace » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:40 pm

Please use some common sense. Why wait until the last 15 minutes to cram into their website, on the busiest day in years? If you want easy access, go to a brokerage known for speed, or get into VG earlier in the day. :oops:

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by cherijoh » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:42 pm

DemoEngr wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:10 pm
I was in and out multiple times on Schwab, did not do anything but I was curious if based on events and volumes. Maybe I was lucky but no issues with platform.
So it was lookie-loos like you that caused all the problems today! :wink:

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by whodidntante » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:44 pm

Vanguard's site is usually some degree of crashed.

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Allocationist
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by Allocationist » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:49 pm

Just one of many reasons I moved from Vanguard to Schwab. Placed several buy orders without any problem on Schwab.

IMO Vanguard is way behind the curve on technology- perhaps to try and keep fees low. Oddly, many of Schwab's fee are now lower than Vanguard.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:51 pm

DriftWood wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:51 pm
I can't log in. Anyone else has the same issue?
Blew off some steam today finally!!!

Eric76
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by Eric76 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:51 pm

Seasonal wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:04 pm
sport wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:51 pm
Vanguard has millions of account owners. If a substantial percentage of them try to access the web site at the same time, that would be enough to bring down most any site.
Apparently it was not enough to bring down other sites with millions of account owners, such as Fidelity.
I couldn't get on to my Edge account at 3:50.

zx14rr
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by zx14rr » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:57 pm

Inability to login was not the only problem as even if you were logged in, whatever you were trying to do the subsequent page wouldn't load.

GLState
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by GLState » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:00 pm

According to MarketWatch, Betterment, Wealthfront, Schwab, TDAmeritrade, and others also had outages today.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/as-ma ... 2018-02-05

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by linenfort » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:06 pm

greg24 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:26 pm
I demand the site is up so that I can execute my panic trading.
:D
Is it too early for an all-bond-portfolio thread?

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by rudeboy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:12 pm

GLState wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:00 pm
According to MarketWatch, Betterment, Wealthfront, Schwab, TDAmeritrade, and others also had outages today.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/as-ma ... 2018-02-05
Iinteresting. I bought with HSA funds at TD Ameritrade at peak carnage without any problems.

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celia
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by celia » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:16 pm

Rudeboy, Yes, some people could get in, but not everyone at once.

We talked to them earlier in the day and the RMD we wanted to take In-kind had to be done by faxing a form, just as in past years. So we went to 2 different copy stores to use the fax but kept getting the message to not dial "1" before the area code, but it wouldn't go through that way either. I suspected the local fax machines were trying to say "the receiving queue is full so try another time".

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:21 pm

cutehumor wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:16 pm
Sell! Sell! Stock is gonna drop another ten percent this week by this Friday! :twisted:
Great! My automatic investment is going in this week.
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by kotsp » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:48 pm

People plan on buying in this dip, please read this https://www.marketwatch.com/story/morga ... yptr=yahoo

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:55 pm

AZAttorney11 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:38 pm
Whether one was looking to buy, sell, rebalance, or simply check the status of their account or other activity, it is inexcusable for an entire platform to be unavailable during regular market hours. Pathetic technology and reliability on full display from Vanguard today.
For what it’s worth, apparently Vanguard was not alone. CNBC is reporting that T. Rowe Price and TD Ameritrade also crumbled under the load.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by willthrill81 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:56 pm

kotsp wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:48 pm
People plan on buying in this dip, please read this https://www.marketwatch.com/story/morga ... yptr=yahoo
They are recommending valuation-based and subjective market timing. Even though I'm a trend follower (rules-based, completely objective), that's terrible advice.

A 'true' Boglehead should keep doing what they've been doing before and not change anything. Most of those who are scrambling to buy or sell are revealing that they are not completely sold on the Boglehead philosophy. For the record, I'm not either.
Last edited by willthrill81 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm

furnace wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:40 pm
Please use some common sense. Why wait until the last 15 minutes to cram into their website, on the busiest day in years? If you want easy access, go to a brokerage known for speed, or get into VG earlier in the day. :oops:
Or you could just leave it alone, stay the course, and go have a beer.
:beer
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Post by sambb » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Given the vanguard website crash (not seen in fidelity or schwab), is this yet another example of the IT risk with vanguard? Does this mean we should diversify to more than one firm? Concerning?


tesuzuki2002
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Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:04 pm

sambb wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Given the vanguard website crash (not seen in fidelity or schwab), is this yet another example of the IT risk with vanguard? Does this mean we should diversify to more than one firm? Concerning?
I mean if you want to put that in your IPS and do that... you could... I don't want complication.

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Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Post by willthrill81 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:07 pm

Numerous platforms experienced outages today. Most of these sites are not just equipped to have so many people on simultaneously. I don't think that diversifying across platforms is a bad idea, but I don't see it as a very needful one either. Unless you're trying to follow the herd, it's unlikely that the site will be down when you truly need to trade.
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rkhusky
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Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Post by rkhusky » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:13 pm

If the web site is down and you really want to execute a trade, you can always mail a check to Vanguard or provide trade instructions in a memo.

bikechuck
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by bikechuck » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:15 pm

Today it was Vanguard's turn to experience problems with their platform. The next time it could happen to ABC company or XYZ, eventually it will visit most companies at one time or another.

Unless it becomes a recurring issue this is more of an argument to distribute your holdings across more than one investment firm and more than one bank which is exactly what I have done some time ago.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by bondsr4me » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:17 pm

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm
furnace wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:40 pm
Please use some common sense. Why wait until the last 15 minutes to cram into their website, on the busiest day in years? If you want easy access, go to a brokerage known for speed, or get into VG earlier in the day. :oops:
Or you could just leave it alone, stay the course, and go have a beer.
:beer
+1

Dilly dilly

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Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Post by MindBogler » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:17 pm

Systems get overloaded sometimes, this isn't a risk if you aren't trying to panic sell with the rest of the herd.

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Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Post by Shallowpockets » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:19 pm

This is akin to all those Venezualans going to the bank at the same time to get their allowed $30 withdrawal. Never thought it would, could happen, until it does. Good thing you all don't even really need your money. Then again, if you did...
Such is our modern money system and computer algorithms with trigger points unrelated to human input once in play. Humans are too slow. We will see what happens tomorrow. I am sure those who want a look see at their money will be trying to look at their money. Not BHs.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:25 pm

I merged sambb's thread into here.
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rec7
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Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Post by rec7 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:35 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

I know Vanguard crashed today but did other brokerages?
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livesoft
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Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Post by livesoft » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:40 pm

WellsTrade and TDAmeritrade worked as usual for me today. I didn't try Vanguard nor Fidelity.

Also what do you mean by "crashed"? Was it just slow, unresponsive, locked up, or your browser said it was inaccessible?
Last edited by livesoft on Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Post by rec7 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:47 pm

livesoft wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:40 pm
WellsTrade and TDAmeritrade worked as usual for me today. I didn't try Vanguard nor Fidelity.

Also what do you mean by "crashed"? Was it just slow, unresponsive, locked up, or your browser said it was inaccessible?
inaccessible for me the last 10 minutes of the day.
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runner23
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Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Post by runner23 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:50 pm

Prudential retirement worked for me to rebalance 401k order at 3:15. I logged out and wanted to review order at 3:30 to confirm. Couldn’t get logged in between 3:30 and market close. Checked tonight and got transaction confirmation.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by itstoomuch » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:53 pm

I wonder how one can keep this thread "actionable?" :mrgreen:

Although I was on the train, I did have data service. My broker had slow service and I had questions if it was blind spots on the track route or if it was something other. I am going to ask for some " free trades".
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Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Post by kappy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:59 pm

I was able to place a buy order of VTSAX right after 3pm today from my iPhone app. When was it down?

rec7
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Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Post by rec7 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:09 pm

I heard others say Scottrade worked fine.
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Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Post by rec7 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:10 pm

kappy wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:59 pm
I was able to place a buy order of VTSAX right after 3pm today from my iPhone app. When was it down?
I was not able to get in 10-15 before the close and not several minutes after the close.
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by MFInvestor » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:14 pm

by Mithrilman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:12 pm
I'm a bit surprised this didn't become a news item. I can't seem to find any mention of it.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting tonight:

(Bogleheads mentioned in the article)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/investment ... ge=1&pos=1

Investment Firms Suffer Website Outages
T. Rowe Price, Vanguard among groups affected as Dow closes down more than 1,170 points


"Many Vanguard Group customers were unable to log into their accounts Monday afternoon. Several posted on Twitter and on bogleheads.org, a popular online investing forum named after company founder John C. Bogle, that they couldn’t see their account balances or trade Monday afternoon.

Some said they were met with messages that account information was “temporarily unavailable” or that the page they requested couldn’t be found. “I can’t log in,” one investor wrote on bogleheads.org of Vanguard’s system, and asked whether others were having the same issue. It appeared that many were. Another poster wrote, “It is a bit unsettling” to not be able to login.

A spokeswoman for Vanguard said that some clients might have experienced “sporadic difficulty” accessing their accounts at Vanguard.com or by phone. “Full access has been restored,” the spokeswoman said."

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Re: Did any other brokerages crash today other than Vanguard?

Post by hawkfan55 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:17 pm

I was not able to get in 10-15 before the close and not several minutes after the close.
+1
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:27 pm

One thing I learned, vicariously thankfully, from the 1987 crash was that if you couldn't get an order placed due to overwhelming demand that you probably didn't want to have it executed anyway--either at that time or at your earliest opportunity. Of course, YMMV and things could well be different now or in the future.

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Re: vanguard website crash and risk with staying there

Post by mpsz » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:02 pm

Every broker that I would ever use has had some form of an outage in the last year "Stuff" happens and this is why I will always have assets at multiple firms.
MindBogler wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:17 pm
Systems get overloaded sometimes, this isn't a risk if you aren't trying to panic sell with the rest of the herd.
What about panic rebalancing? :mrgreen:

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:05 pm

I moved rec7's post into here. The combined thread is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum.
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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by drk » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:06 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:33 pm
themesrob wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:32 pm
I wasn't planning on doing any trading today, but I find it utterly incomprehensible that some folks would make light of an entire platform going down and people being unable to place orders. That's not acceptable on any day. But sure, lolz panic trading
Yes, it doesn't raise one's confidence in Vanguard's operations. I wonder if any other platforms went down today.
Yes. I had trouble accessing TDA around the time of today's flash crash, and Bloomberg had an article about Wealthfront and Betterment being inaccessible.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by BolderBoy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:17 pm

For all anyone knows, there could have been enough legitimate activity bunched up to look like a DDOS attack, so VG's servers did the right thing and funneled all login attempts to the bit bucket.
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Re: Can't signon to Vanguard

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:22 pm

Mithrilman wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:52 pm
[merged this topic and replies into the existing thread - moderator prudent]

Anyone else? Not a buyer or a seller today, but it is a bit unsettling to not be able to logon...
Congrats, you got quoted in the WSJ :D

"Many Vanguard Group customers were unable to log into their accounts Monday afternoon. Several posted on Twitter and on bogleheads.org, a popular online investing forum named after company founder John C. Bogle, that they couldn’t see their account balances or trade Monday afternoon.

Some said they were met with messages that account information was “temporarily unavailable” or that the page they requested couldn’t be found. “I can’t log in,” one investor wrote on bogleheads.org of Vanguard’s system, and asked whether others were having the same issue. It appeared that many were. Another poster wrote, “It is a bit unsettling” to not be able to login."

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by blevine » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:36 pm

zx14rr wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:22 pm
What a joke Vanguard is. Can't even afford a computer system that works. I don't know about any of you but I have seen a continuous downgrade of caring about clients starting with Jack Brennan and then accelerating under Bill McNabb. Assets under management is all Vanguard cares about. Maybe Vanguard should use a little of the advertising budget to spend on a computer system.
You get what you pay for. They wont get the best IT staff, just the ones willing to work at salaries they can afford.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by asif408 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:43 pm

My question is why so many Bogleheads were trying to login today? I understand why the unwashed masses logged in, but I thought Bogleheads were better than that. If you have an appropriate allocation there is no need to login today, or tomorrow, or next week. Just a few times a year should be plently enough. We haven't even hit a 10% drop, so it's highly unlikely anyone had a need to login and make a purchase because they hit rebalancing bands. The only reason anyone would have logged in today would be because they had a portfolio that was too risky and decided to capitulate and sell their stocks.

If and/or when we get down 20, 30, or 40%, then you have my permission to login and begin buying some more stocks.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by Alchemist » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:53 pm

asif408 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:43 pm
My question is why so many Bogleheads were trying to login today? I understand why the unwashed masses logged in, but I thought Bogleheads were better than that. If you have an appropriate allocation there is no need to login today, or tomorrow, or next week. Just a few times a year should be plently enough. We haven't even hit a 10% drop, so it's highly unlikely anyone had a need to login and make a purchase because they hit rebalancing bands. The only reason anyone would have logged in today would be to capitulate and sell their stocks.

If and/or when we get down 20, 30, or 40%, then you have my permission to login and begin buying some more stocks.
Whether people were being wise/foolish is not the point. The point is that a brokerage company should not have their website crash in the middle of the business day. No one wants nor should expect to see crippling IT issues at the place holding the bulk of their net worth. Such concerns are what has driven many bogleheads (myself included) away from holding their investments at Vanguard and instead moving to other brokerage companies.


Interestingly Fidelity is saying most of their retail customers were buying, not selling today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/05/fidelit ... lunge.html
Last edited by Alchemist on Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by weltschmerz » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:56 pm

Allocationist wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:49 pm
Just one of many reasons I moved from Vanguard to Schwab. Placed several buy orders without any problem on Schwab.

IMO Vanguard is way behind the curve on technology- perhaps to try and keep fees low. Oddly, many of Schwab's fee are now lower than Vanguard.
Obviously Vanguard is a victim of its own success. Does Schwab have even 1/10 the clients that vanguard does? Their website ran smoothly today, but what if they get a lot more clients? On a crazy day like today, maybe you're better off with SmallBrokerXYZ that has a website that can handle the traffic. Or if you're going to stay with vanguard, just accept that on a crazy day, you ain't getting in.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:17 pm

Alchemist wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:53 pm
asif408 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:43 pm
My question is why so many Bogleheads were trying to login today? I understand why the unwashed masses logged in, but I thought Bogleheads were better than that. If you have an appropriate allocation there is no need to login today, or tomorrow, or next week. Just a few times a year should be plently enough. We haven't even hit a 10% drop, so it's highly unlikely anyone had a need to login and make a purchase because they hit rebalancing bands. The only reason anyone would have logged in today would be to capitulate and sell their stocks.

If and/or when we get down 20, 30, or 40%, then you have my permission to login and begin buying some more stocks.
Whether people were being wise/foolish is not the point. The point is that a brokerage company should not have their website crash in the middle of the business day. No one wants nor should expect to see crippling IT issues at the place holding the bulk of their net worth. Such concerns are what has driven many bogleheads (myself included) away from holding their investments at Vanguard and instead moving to other brokerage companies.


Interestingly Fidelity is saying most of their retail customers were buying, not selling today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/05/fidelit ... lunge.html
I, for one, am skeptical.

edit: I have accounts at Fidelity, Vanguard, and Schwab.

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by momo54 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:15 am

I spoke to a rep around 8:30 pm this evening after a 45 minute wait and inquired about the inability to contact them on the phone and the web site being down. I don't quite understand his lingo but his explanation to me was they have a lot of new people on the {front end} and they had a lot of retail investors with flagship membership panicking .

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Re: Vanguard site is crashed now?

Post by woof755 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:28 am

asif408 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:43 pm
My question is why so many Bogleheads were trying to login today? I understand why the unwashed masses logged in, but I thought Bogleheads were better than that. If you have an appropriate allocation there is no need to login today, or tomorrow, or next week. Just a few times a year should be plently enough. We haven't even hit a 10% drop, so it's highly unlikely anyone had a need to login and make a purchase because they hit rebalancing bands. The only reason anyone would have logged in today would be because they had a portfolio that was too risky and decided to capitulate and sell their stocks.

If and/or when we get down 20, 30, or 40%, then you have my permission to login and begin buying some more stocks.
I don't seek your permission to do anything with my money. Who are you to question the motives of other smart investors, like yourself?
"By singing in harmony from the same page of the same investing hymnal, the Diehards drown out market noise." | | --Jason Zweig, quoted in The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing

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