Gold IRA with pretty low costs

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technovelist
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Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by technovelist » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:02 am

In case anyone is interested in holding a significant amount of physical gold in an IRA, this trust company has low costs (by non-Boglehead standards, anyway :mrgreen:). Their yearly fees come to 20 basis points, all in, for accounts over $100,000.

https://www.goldstartrust.com/Services/ ... etals.aspx

I'm not connected to them in any way, other than that I'm planning to open an account with them, but I have heard from a usually reliable source that they are easy to deal with.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

Angelus359
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by Angelus359 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:04 am

Gold has been a terrible speculation for a loooong time

It's actually better in a taxable account because you can deduct the losses...
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technovelist
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by technovelist » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:07 am

Angelus359 wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:04 am
Gold has been a terrible speculation for a loooong time

It's actually better in a taxable account because you can deduct the losses...
I bought quite a bit in 1998/9 at around $300.

I don't consider that a "terrible speculation", but obviously everyone can have different definitions for that.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:21 am

I wanted to get into gold 5 years ago around $1700 and oz. I chickened out and bought silver coins instead. As it turns out, both were equally horrible investments except I can sell the silver coins to craigslist collectors who will pay more than any dealer. Oh, gold is now right about $1300, so taking a wad of cash and sticking it under my mattress would have been a much better investment.
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VinhoVerde
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by VinhoVerde » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:13 pm

Technovelist:
Do you know anything about the financial stability of Gold Star Trust? What are your rights if the company goes bankrupt?
I would suggest you look up the Perth Mint in Australia. They are owned by a state( Western Australia) which has a AA+ rating. You can buy it unallocated or allocated.Fees are low and seems very safe. I think they've been in business since 1986.
VinhoVerde

Angelus359
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by Angelus359 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:59 pm

What is the benefit to owning gold as an asset
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raisinsaregrapes
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by raisinsaregrapes » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:03 pm

I don't think I would trust any company to hold physical gold for me. I don't have any, but if I did it would be in a safe.

david1082b
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by david1082b » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:18 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:21 am
I wanted to get into gold 5 years ago around $1700 and oz. I chickened out and bought silver coins instead. As it turns out, both were equally horrible investments except I can sell the silver coins to craigslist collectors who will pay more than any dealer. Oh, gold is now right about $1300, so taking a wad of cash and sticking it under my mattress would have been a much better investment.
To be pedantic, the silver fund SLV is down 47% from five years ago while gold fund GLD is down 22%. http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fun ... A%5B%5D%7D

1nv35t
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by 1nv35t » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Angelus359 wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:59 pm
Gold has been a terrible speculation for a loooong time

It's actually better in a taxable account because you can deduct the losses...
.
.
What is the benefit to owning gold as an asset
I don't like many assets that others might hold, but I don't go around posting negativity in those threads. If you don't know the benefits then its best you avoid it as a asset. For some however it's a asset that has distinct benefits.

1nv35t
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by 1nv35t » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:33 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:21 am
I wanted to get into gold 5 years ago around $1700 and oz. I chickened out and bought silver coins instead. As it turns out, both were equally horrible investments except I can sell the silver coins to craigslist collectors who will pay more than any dealer. Oh, gold is now right about $1300, so taking a wad of cash and sticking it under my mattress would have been a much better investment.
There are three main sources of rewards, price appreciation, income (dividends/interest) and volatility capture. All tend to broadly compare as if that were not the case investors would converge on the single best choice.

Gold bought and held as a door stop isn't the best choice for many. Blend it and rebalance to capture the benefits of its potential high volatility. Gold for instance back at the end of 2012 was at around $1664/ounce, so if you invested $1664 in gold (1 ounce) and $1664 in SCV (VISVX) and rebalanced once yearly back to 50/50 weightings as of the end of 2017 (when gold was priced at $1250/ounce) you'd have 2 ounces of gold sitting in your safe, and a combined portfolio value (accumulation/reinvesting dividends) that had outpaced inflation by over 5% annualized (hover over the black information icon next to the CAGR value in this links "Portfolio Returns" section.

Not great, when compared to stock heavy alternatives, but still pretty decent. Extend that back further and from 2005 - over a 7.3% annualized real. Which is around the same as that from 1975 (or even from 1972 if you were in a region that permitted such holdings).

1nv35t
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by 1nv35t » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:48 pm

raisinsaregrapes wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:03 pm
I don't think I would trust any company to hold physical gold for me. I don't have any, but if I did it would be in a safe.
IIRC Australia has confiscation/compulsory purchase laws of some type already passed such that to invoke such action doesn't require its Parliamentary approval to do so. Can't recall the detail or really confirm whether that is the case or not, but even the remote prospect was enough for suade me away from the Australian holdings of a geopolitical diversification of NY, London, Perth asset allocation some year back. Instead I opted to spatially diversify physical gold holdings on the basis of if transportation across borders was required the easiest/safest option would be to liquidate to cash and electronically or otherwise move that currency and repurchase gold at the desired target location.

technovelist
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by technovelist » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:50 am

VinhoVerde wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:13 pm
Technovelist:
Do you know anything about the financial stability of Gold Star Trust? What are your rights if the company goes bankrupt?
I would suggest you look up the Perth Mint in Australia. They are owned by a state( Western Australia) which has a AA+ rating. You can buy it unallocated or allocated.Fees are low and seems very safe. I think they've been in business since 1986.
VinhoVerde
Gold star trust is the IRA administrator and custodian, but the metal isn't their property, so the risk of their going broke is just like the risk of Vanguard going broke. Your assets would still be your assets.

I know about the Perth Mint and have looked into their plans some time ago. As I recall, you get a certificate for a number of ounces but I'm not sure of the exact legal form due to how long ago it was.

A gold IRA at Gold star trust is less complicated and expensive, as far as I can tell.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

stlutz
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by stlutz » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:50 pm

Couple of questions since I'm kind of ignorant on gold:

My understanding is that you can't take physical possession of gold held in an IRA--is that correct?

If so, what would be the key differences between this setup vs. buying an gold ETF (BAR costs .2%/yr. for example)?

ImUrHuckleberry
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by ImUrHuckleberry » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:43 pm

1nv35t wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:50 pm
Angelus359 wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:59 pm
Gold has been a terrible speculation for a loooong time

It's actually better in a taxable account because you can deduct the losses...
.
.
What is the benefit to owning gold as an asset
I don't like many assets that others might hold, but I don't go around posting negativity in those threads. If you don't know the benefits then its best you avoid it as a asset. For some however it's a asset that has distinct benefits.
Such as?

Angelus359
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by Angelus359 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:50 am

ImUrHuckleberry wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:43 pm
1nv35t wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:50 pm
Angelus359 wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:59 pm
Gold has been a terrible speculation for a loooong time

It's actually better in a taxable account because you can deduct the losses...
.
.
What is the benefit to owning gold as an asset
I don't like many assets that others might hold, but I don't go around posting negativity in those threads. If you don't know the benefits then its best you avoid it as a asset. For some however it's a asset that has distinct benefits.
Such as?

I'd love to know.

Gold is a metal that is valuable for electronics and jewelry.
Outside of those uses, the only inherit value is the idea that someone might value it more.
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pkcrafter
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by pkcrafter » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:03 am

Here is an earlier thread on gold returns. My conclusion is, if someone is considering buying gold, it can't be for long term gains, so it must be a short term defense against a falling market. That's the usual time for gold to jump.

viewtopic.php?t=236191

Also, here's a link to pros/cons of self-directed IRAs.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investi ... ira-right/


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When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

technovelist
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Re: Gold IRA with pretty low costs

Post by technovelist » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:14 pm

stlutz wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:50 pm
Couple of questions since I'm kind of ignorant on gold:

My understanding is that you can't take physical possession of gold held in an IRA--is that correct?

If so, what would be the key differences between this setup vs. buying an gold ETF (BAR costs .2%/yr. for example)?
Correct, you can't take physical possession of gold in an IRA.

And the key difference is that in this case what you own is gold coins and/or bars held in a high-security vault, which you can have delivered to you on request (and paying a delivery charge). In the case of an ETF, what you own is an undivided interest in some pool of gold that the sponsors claim they have, but you can't get your piece delivered to you; all you can do is sell those shares to someone else.

The trust is a lot less complicated and therefore there is less that can go wrong.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

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