Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

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cinghiale
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Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by cinghiale » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:27 pm

I was doing some New Year’s tidying of my portfolio this weekend, and decided to place some funds (5% of the total portfolio) into the new Global Wellington fund (VGWAX). I’ve seen little mentioned about either Global Wellington or Global Wellesley here on the forum since some initial questions were asked in late 2017 and nothing mentioned in terms of any Bogleheads actually purchasing shares. Anyone else in?

I’m not jumping for joy over the expense ratio (.35% for the Admiral shares), but suspect that number will come down as subscriptions increase. And, the 5% investment added only 0.01% to the overall portfolio ER. As a long-time Wellesley Income holder, I’m willing to put up with the higher ERs that come with Wellington Management. Both of these funds are being held in tax-deferred accounts.

For those who have purchased shares, when did you do it? Any compelling reasons why? What percentage of your portfolio did you commit?

I hesitated to start this thread, as doing so is tantamount to admitting, “Hey, look, I’m spending 7 times the expense ratio of Vanguard’s total stock and bond index funds on this new offering!” But, curiosity won out over caution.
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nura
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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by nura » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:53 pm

Bought 10k of Global Wellington the day it was launched, watching how it performs against it's passive counterpart moderate life strategy fund. Domestic Wellington has outperformed balanced-index almost consistently.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by OldSport » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:07 pm

Both Domestic Wellesley and Wellington have consistently outperformed their respective index benchmarks. Why is that? I doubt it's stock selection in bull markets since we know that is so hard to beat.

Is it one or more of the following:
1) Better bond selection than the Treasury heavy indexes
2) Dynamic Asset Allocation within prospectus - higher equity during bull market and higher bond during bear markets (think it is 30-40 with Wellesley and 60-70 with Wellington).
3) Defensive stock selection during bear markets
4) Something else

It would be interesting to see how the Global funds perform.

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cinghiale
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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by cinghiale » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:50 pm

This thread has turned out to be a total yawner.

Admittedly, folks here are not a typical or representative lot. But would both Global Wellington and Global Wellesley be dying of (funding) starvation if they were dependent on the participation of Bogleheads?

Anyone interested but not “in” yet? Waiting to see a track record, or waiting to have the expense ratio drop?

Given the loyalty of many forum members to Wellington and Wellesley, I confess to no small amount of surprise at the dearth of interest in the new global versions.
"We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anais Nin | | "Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious." George Orwell

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by Sheepdog » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:02 pm

cinghiale wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:50 pm


Given the loyalty of many forum members to Wellington and Wellesley, I confess to no small amount of surprise at the dearth of interest in the new global versions.
I am one of those with the loyalty to Wellesley. I knew that I needed more international and I trusted the group's managers, so I invested $175K within our Roth IRAs on opening day by transfer from domestic Wellesley..No new money was added.

edit: added the word Roth
Last edited by Sheepdog on Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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onourway
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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by onourway » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:03 pm

I am potentially interested in Global Wellington in my 401k where I buy Vanguard funds through a regular brokerage and therefore regular Wellington is closed. However I'd need to re-jigger a lot of things to make that happen, and right now it's not happening. But possibly in the future.

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Who
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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by Who » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:32 pm

I just converted my Wellington and Wellesley stakes ($55k each) to their global counterparts. I want to stay in the stock market at my asset allocation, but with the Shiller 10 year PE showing the USA being so expensive, I think it is prudent to change these excellent funds to worldwide. It does take some faith that the Global versions will be managed similarly, but I think Vanguard has earned my faith.

As to the expense ratio, it doesn't bother me. I've got a few Vanguard funds that are much higher. I look at the overall expense, for my entire portfolio. I'm just a wee bit over the Vanguard average: 18 basis points. I have cheap and not so cheap funds. (Vanguard doesn't have expensive funds.) If you only buy cheap products, you may not be as diversified as you could be.

There's one thing that I hope Vanguard fixes soon about these funds. If you use the Vanguard Portfolio Watch, the data Vanguard has about these new funds is completely wrong. These global funds do not have all foreign stocks and bonds, the bonds are not municipals, the stocks are not mid-cap. It messes up Portfolio Watch.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by BarbK » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:00 pm

Also partial to W/W.

We bought admiral shares of G. Wellington soon after it was launched but still $25.00 NAV. Took ~$40K of funds from Star Fund so the ER was about the same; took the rest from a Bond Int Index fund which turned out great.

Will probably buy the G Wellesley also; but don't want to start collecting funds.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:19 pm

Sheepdog wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:02 pm
cinghiale wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:50 pm


Given the loyalty of many forum members to Wellington and Wellesley, I confess to no small amount of surprise at the dearth of interest in the new global versions.
I am one of those with the loyalty to Wellesley. I knew that I needed more international and I trusted the group's managers, so I invested $175K within our Roth IRAs on opening day by transfer from domestic Wellesley..No new money was added.

edit: added the word Roth
That's where I am as well. Considering that Wellesley and Wellington have performed so well for so long, why try to mess with a good thing? That being said, I do like the international diversification that the new funds bring. It's just difficult to argue with a near 50 year track record of consistent success.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by saltz1979 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:33 am

Detailed holdings are out for G-Wellesley and G-Wellington.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by GratefulinNC » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:47 am

Who wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:32 pm
I just converted my Wellington and Wellesley stakes ($55k each) to their global counterparts. I want to stay in the stock market at my asset allocation, but with the Shiller 10 year PE showing the USA being so expensive, I think it is prudent to change these excellent funds to worldwide. It does take some faith that the Global versions will be managed similarly, but I think Vanguard has earned my faith.

As to the expense ratio, it doesn't bother me. I've got a few Vanguard funds that are much higher. I look at the overall expense, for my entire portfolio. I'm just a wee bit over the Vanguard average: 18 basis points. I have cheap and not so cheap funds. (Vanguard doesn't have expensive funds.) If you only buy cheap products, you may not be as diversified as you could be.

There's one thing that I hope Vanguard fixes soon about these funds. If you use the Vanguard Portfolio Watch, the data Vanguard has about these new funds is completely wrong. These global funds do not have all foreign stocks and bonds, the bonds are not municipals, the stocks are not mid-cap. It messes up Portfolio Watch.
Market timing?

Scout125
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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by Scout125 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:07 pm

I recently purchased the minimum amount of Global Wellington Admiral shares. I was fed up with Edward Jones and rolled all of our accounts to Vanguard. Honestly, I was intrigued by the idea of a global fund with Vanguard’s reputation. Nearly half of our non-401k assets are in VWENX as I am a huge fan. Given the current environment, I wanted a more diversified fund with international exposure and active management to better navigate the current, volatile market. I think 0.35% is dirt cheap given the reputation of Wellington and personally feel that given the complexities of international investing, paying a little more is well worth it. I still keep a substantial portion of investments in ultra-low cost index funds but sleep a little easier knowing someone is watching some of my investments closely when things get shaky. Overall, it provides the right mix and ratio of domestic and international stocks and bonds for our needs at a very reasonable price.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by bearcub » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:46 am

Just seen this thread. January 2nd I invested my ROTH IRA in it. Plan to hold it for many years or to my departure. Whatever. LOL.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by B. Wellington » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:43 am

OldSport wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:07 pm
Both Domestic Wellesley and Wellington have consistently outperformed their respective index benchmarks. Why is that? I doubt it's stock selection in bull markets since we know that is so hard to beat.

Is it one or more of the following:
1) Better bond selection than the Treasury heavy indexes
2) Dynamic Asset Allocation within prospectus - higher equity during bull market and higher bond during bear markets (think it is 30-40 with Wellesley and 60-70 with Wellington).
3) Defensive stock selection during bear markets
4) Something else

It would be interesting to see how the Global funds perform.

^^^ Call it "loyalty" or something else, we have been holders of Wellington/Wellesley for many years. (Note signature) :wink:

These funds fit well within my AA and risk tolerance, Rebalances automatically without the DW wondering what to sell and when.

Also, Jonathan Clements at one of the Bogleheads conferences argued that because of the world changing demographics that adding International/Global was a prudent thing to do...

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by beardsworth » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:53 am

I think Global Wellington and Global Wellesley could be interesting funds.

But each has essentially been treading water during its short life. The "Investor" shares opened in November at $20 per share, and each fund was still very slightly below that at yesterday's close. Of course, markets have seen some return of volatility during that period, so perhaps the relative stability of these two is even something to be admired.

I'm interested in both, but just watching for a while to see how they behave.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:55 pm

beardsworth wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:53 am
I think Global Wellington and Global Wellesley could be interesting funds.

But each has essentially been treading water during its short life. The "Investor" shares opened in November at $20 per share, and each fund was still very slightly below that at yesterday's close. Of course, markets have seen some return of volatility during that period, so perhaps the relative stability of these two is even something to be admired.

I'm interested in both, but just watching for a while to see how they behave.
Bonds haven't done well over the last several months, and stocks haven't either. At any rate, it's been far too short a period to say anything good or bad about these funds.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by beardsworth » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:34 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:55 pm
beardsworth wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:53 am
I think Global Wellington and Global Wellesley could be interesting funds.

But each has essentially been treading water during its short life. The "Investor" shares opened in November at $20 per share, and each fund was still very slightly below that at yesterday's close. Of course, markets have seen some return of volatility during that period, so perhaps the relative stability of these two is even something to be admired.

I'm interested in both, but just watching for a while to see how they behave.
Bonds haven't done well over the last several months, and stocks haven't either. At any rate, it's been far too short a period to say anything good or bad about these funds.
We agree. That's exactly why I noted recent volatility, and exactly why I said that both of these fund interest me but I'm "watching for a while to see how they behave."

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:57 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:55 pm
beardsworth wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:53 am
I think Global Wellington and Global Wellesley could be interesting funds.

But each has essentially been treading water during its short life. The "Investor" shares opened in November at $20 per share, and each fund was still very slightly below that at yesterday's close. Of course, markets have seen some return of volatility during that period, so perhaps the relative stability of these two is even something to be admired.

I'm interested in both, but just watching for a while to see how they behave.
Bonds haven't done well over the last several months, and stocks haven't either. At any rate, it's been far too short a period to say anything good or bad about these funds.
While "Bogleheads" find international diversification for equities a sensible idea, diversification to international on the fixed side of things seems like a lukewarm idea to many.

Do you think this is why the mild reception to the Global Wellington and Global Wellesley funds in "Bogle Land"?
What about the public at large?

It's been 6-7 months since these funds have started.
Your wisdom??

Thoughts anyone?

aloha
j

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by Dottie57 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:57 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:55 pm
beardsworth wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:53 am
I think Global Wellington and Global Wellesley could be interesting funds.

But each has essentially been treading water during its short life. The "Investor" shares opened in November at $20 per share, and each fund was still very slightly below that at yesterday's close. Of course, markets have seen some return of volatility during that period, so perhaps the relative stability of these two is even something to be admired.

I'm interested in both, but just watching for a while to see how they behave.
Bonds haven't done well over the last several months, and stocks haven't either. At any rate, it's been far too short a period to say anything good or bad about these funds.
While "Bogleheads" find international diversification for equities a sensible idea, diversification to international on the fixed side of things seems like a lukewarm idea to many.

Do you think this is why the mild reception to the Global Wellington and Global Wellesley funds in "Bogle Land"?
What about the public at large?

It's been 6-7 months since these funds have started.
Your wisdom??

Thoughts anyone?

aloha
j
I have wellington in my HSA. It’s ER is higher than index funds. And I don’t jump (for most part) into new funds - especially actively managed. Plus Am very happy with my current situation.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by nedsaid » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:14 pm

GratefulinNC wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:47 am
Who wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:32 pm
I just converted my Wellington and Wellesley stakes ($55k each) to their global counterparts. I want to stay in the stock market at my asset allocation, but with the Shiller 10 year PE showing the USA being so expensive, I think it is prudent to change these excellent funds to worldwide. It does take some faith that the Global versions will be managed similarly, but I think Vanguard has earned my faith.

As to the expense ratio, it doesn't bother me. I've got a few Vanguard funds that are much higher. I look at the overall expense, for my entire portfolio. I'm just a wee bit over the Vanguard average: 18 basis points. I have cheap and not so cheap funds. (Vanguard doesn't have expensive funds.) If you only buy cheap products, you may not be as diversified as you could be.

There's one thing that I hope Vanguard fixes soon about these funds. If you use the Vanguard Portfolio Watch, the data Vanguard has about these new funds is completely wrong. These global funds do not have all foreign stocks and bonds, the bonds are not municipals, the stocks are not mid-cap. It messes up Portfolio Watch.
Market timing?
My take is that Who wanted International diversification and also was sold on the investment approach of the Wellington/Wellesley management team. Who trusted the management team to manage International investments with the same skill as it has managed Domestic investments. Not a bad bet to make.
A fool and his money are good for business.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:41 pm

nedsaid wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:14 pm
GratefulinNC wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:47 am
Who wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:32 pm
I just converted my Wellington and Wellesley stakes ($55k each) to their global counterparts. I want to stay in the stock market at my asset allocation, but with the Shiller 10 year PE showing the USA being so expensive, I think it is prudent to change these excellent funds to worldwide. It does take some faith that the Global versions will be managed similarly, but I think Vanguard has earned my faith.

As to the expense ratio, it doesn't bother me. I've got a few Vanguard funds that are much higher. I look at the overall expense, for my entire portfolio. I'm just a wee bit over the Vanguard average: 18 basis points. I have cheap and not so cheap funds. (Vanguard doesn't have expensive funds.) If you only buy cheap products, you may not be as diversified as you could be.

There's one thing that I hope Vanguard fixes soon about these funds. If you use the Vanguard Portfolio Watch, the data Vanguard has about these new funds is completely wrong. These global funds do not have all foreign stocks and bonds, the bonds are not municipals, the stocks are not mid-cap. It messes up Portfolio Watch.
Market timing?
My take is that Who wanted International diversification and also was sold on the investment approach of the Wellington/Wellesley management team. Who trusted the management team to manage International investments with the same skill as it has managed Domestic investments. Not a bad bet to make.
But. . . is the higher expense ratio worth it?
j

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by columbia » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:41 pm
nedsaid wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:14 pm
GratefulinNC wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:47 am
Who wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:32 pm
I just converted my Wellington and Wellesley stakes ($55k each) to their global counterparts. I want to stay in the stock market at my asset allocation, but with the Shiller 10 year PE showing the USA being so expensive, I think it is prudent to change these excellent funds to worldwide. It does take some faith that the Global versions will be managed similarly, but I think Vanguard has earned my faith.

As to the expense ratio, it doesn't bother me. I've got a few Vanguard funds that are much higher. I look at the overall expense, for my entire portfolio. I'm just a wee bit over the Vanguard average: 18 basis points. I have cheap and not so cheap funds. (Vanguard doesn't have expensive funds.) If you only buy cheap products, you may not be as diversified as you could be.

There's one thing that I hope Vanguard fixes soon about these funds. If you use the Vanguard Portfolio Watch, the data Vanguard has about these new funds is completely wrong. These global funds do not have all foreign stocks and bonds, the bonds are not municipals, the stocks are not mid-cap. It messes up Portfolio Watch.
Market timing?
My take is that Who wanted International diversification and also was sold on the investment approach of the Wellington/Wellesley management team. Who trusted the management team to manage International investments with the same skill as it has managed Domestic investments. Not a bad bet to make.
But. . . is the higher expense ratio worth it?
j

Wellington has a track record of being equal/just beating 75 stock/25 bonds. Worth it? Seems so. Continue in the future? We shall see.

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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by willthrill81 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:28 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:57 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:55 pm
beardsworth wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:53 am
I think Global Wellington and Global Wellesley could be interesting funds.

But each has essentially been treading water during its short life. The "Investor" shares opened in November at $20 per share, and each fund was still very slightly below that at yesterday's close. Of course, markets have seen some return of volatility during that period, so perhaps the relative stability of these two is even something to be admired.

I'm interested in both, but just watching for a while to see how they behave.
Bonds haven't done well over the last several months, and stocks haven't either. At any rate, it's been far too short a period to say anything good or bad about these funds.
While "Bogleheads" find international diversification for equities a sensible idea, diversification to international on the fixed side of things seems like a lukewarm idea to many.

Do you think this is why the mild reception to the Global Wellington and Global Wellesley funds in "Bogle Land"?
What about the public at large?

It's been 6-7 months since these funds have started.
Your wisdom??

Thoughts anyone?

aloha
j
Personally, I'm not interested in owning international bonds, so Global Wellesley isn't appealing to me. We continue to hold about two-thirds of our emergency fund in Wellesley.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

columbia
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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by columbia » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:12 am

I fiddled some on Friday and forced myself to get over aversion (fear?) of international bonds and revamped portfolio to:

25%: Vanguard 500
25%: Global Wellington
25%: Global Wellesley
25%: TIAA Traditional RC (paying 4.25% these days)

I feel like that is pretty all-weather; at least that’s what I’m telling myself....

smectym
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Re: Anyone Pulled the Trigger on Global Wellington/Wellesley?

Post by smectym » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:56 am

Bought Global Wellesley shortly after inception. Monitoring it has been watching paint dry. Zzzz...Zzzz... I guess that’s what I like about it

Smectym

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