$399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

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dbr
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by dbr » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:05 pm

There is also this as a consideration: https://www.bogleheads.org/support.htm not that I am a paragon of virtue in this department. It is a reminder that almost everything costs someone money.

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by livesoft » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:08 pm

Yes, I think it is true. If rebalancing didn't make a meaningful change, then one can also say the expense ratio diference is also not meaningful. Behavioral issues also have an impact, too.

I'll say this, too: Nobody rebalances like a computer algorithm, so those "studies" are always to be taking with a grain of salty skepticism. Perhaps a better design would be to tell different groups of investors "You are in Group 1 (2, 3 ,4, ....) and your group will always rebalance with algorithm A (B, C, D,....)." Then look at the results.
Last edited by livesoft on Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Da5id » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:14 pm

Whakamole wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:54 pm
livesoft wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:47 pm
cutterinnj wrote: Not to get too off topic, but I thought this was at least partially debunked- the continuous and automatic fund rebalancing makes up for the slight increase in ER.
Yes, I think that is essentially true, but there are still the taxes which would be a big deal for high income folks and low income folks, too.
Are you sure? I thought that the recent Vanguard paper said that the time period for rebalancing didn't really matter:

https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/ISGPORE.pdf

"As the figure shows, changing the rebalancing frequency from monthly to quarterly to annually did not meaningfully change the portfolio average equity allocations, average annualized returns, or volatilities."

Of course the costs mainly matter when looking at taxable accounts, the only costs in a tax-advantaged account would be if you were paying transaction fees which can easily be avoided by using the NTF index funds/ETFs that I think all major brokerages are offering.
Annual returns, in that link, are slightly higher. Not meaningfully so as they say in the summary. And that is what you expect. If you never rebalance, your returns are of course higher. Because more stocks == more returns for historical periods. If you continuously rebalance, you get a return dictated by your stock exposure. If you periodically rebalance, your stock exposure is slightly higher than your target and in the long term your return is slightly higher too. For example, in that link if your target equity percentage is 50%, your average equity allocation with annual rebalancing is 51.2%. Rebalancing is about adjusting your risk (stock exposure), not about magically augmenting returns in some way.

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Gadget » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:21 pm

If I could get my in laws or my parents to take this course, I would easily spend 800 on it for both of them to have. Edward Jones and Raymond James Brokerage are easily taking enough of my wife and my future inheritance that this course would be worth the money if they would actually take it. Now I just need a course on how to convince family members to take this course.

There is a zero percent chance I will ever get either of them to search through this forum and wiki. A course would probably be more in line with something they would listen and respond to. They both just think I'm smart and that's the only reason I don't need a financial advisor, no matter what I say. Too many years of me telling my parents how some new tech works and them not understanding. They assume diy finance will be just another complex thing they won't understand. Bought them boggleheads guide to investing, but I'm pretty sure it's collecting dust.

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by nisiprius » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:34 pm

Bruce wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:49 am
...No one was slamming Rick Ferri or Bill Bernstein for offering investment information and advice, as a business as well as on the forum...
It's a tricky area, but as a matter of fact these posters were fairly punctilious about not identifying their businesses in their posts. Rick Ferri actually created a personal website so that he could link to it without publicizing his advisory firm, and I doubt that most of the people who read his posts knew the name of his firm. I still don't know the name of Bill Bernstein's advisory firm, either. These are difficult issues to deal with. The statement of forum policy is may be worth quoting. I'm quoting this just so people who may not have looked at this part of the policy can see what it is.
No Solicitation

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by MilitaryDoc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:35 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:39 pm
Many roads to Dublin. I love the Bogleheads forum (and wiki) and will be forever grateful to its creators, owners, donors, moderators, and participants.

But there is no Bogleheads podcast. No Bogleheads video course. No Bogleheads scholarship. Only three Bogleheads books. No jobs have been created by Bogleheads.

Some things are best done free. Some things are best done for profit. There are pluses and minuses either way. Eliminate the conflicts of interest and do less. Disclose the conflicts of interest and do more. Different strokes for different folks. Take what you like and leave the rest, like everything else in life.
How in the world do you find the time to manage all of your responsibilities and still get a good night's sleep?? Being a family man, practicing medicine, and running a multi-faceted business are individually full-time jobs. Kudos to you brotha! Thank you for your contributions to the community and keep on keeping on!

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by staythecourse » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:45 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:34 pm
Bruce wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:49 am
...No one was slamming Rick Ferri or Bill Bernstein for offering investment information and advice, as a business as well as on the forum...
It's a tricky area, but as a matter of fact these posters were fairly punctilious about not identifying their businesses in their posts. Rick Ferri actually created a personal website so that he could link to it without publicizing his advisory firm, and I doubt that most of the people who read his posts knew the name of his firm. (That presented difficulties because when he parted company with the firm he founded, the website didn't survive). I don't know the name of Bill Bernstein's advisory firm, either. These are difficult issues to deal with. The statement of forum policy is may be worth quoting. I'm quoting this just so people who may not have looked at this part of the policy can see what it is.
No Solicitation

Please do not solicit business or website traffic on this forum. Forum officers will determine what constitutes solicitation on a case by case basis, but we offer the following guidelines about commonly encountered issues:
  • Members may enter personal websites or blogs in the "Website" section of their profiles.
  • Members may link to relevant pages on their personal websites or blogs in replies on a topic started by another member.
  • Members may link to relevant pages they have authored on affiliated Bogleheads sites.
  • Members may not post affiliate or referral links, except affiliate links in support of the forum, or ask for referrals.
  • Company representatives must identify themselves and may only post on current topics to correct factual errors or directly answer unresolved technical questions about their products or services.
  • Authors, software developers, or others looking for feedback should contact bhadmin@bogleheads.org for approval before posting.
Not to beat a dead horse, but it is not fair to compare Mr. Ferri and Dr. Bernstein to WCI. The first two are PROFESSIONAL finance guys who have taken the certifying courses from the designated professional organizations that oversee personal finance. My guess is CFA. Correct me if I am mistaken, but WCI is NOT a professional financial advisor. I am not sure him doing this course is even legal. I can see the CFA and/or the SEC folks view this as someone scamming folks out of their hard earned money. Not saying WCI is doing, but I sure hope he has talked to lawyers before doing this.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by David Jay » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:46 pm

After seeing so many new Docs come here with a portfolio of NWM whole life and variable annuity plans, I think $399 to get them past that is a cheap alternative.

I still love the WCI flowchart for "permanent insurance" at the bottom of this post: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/12-qu ... insurance/
Last edited by David Jay on Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Rowan Oak » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:04 pm

Gadget wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:21 pm
If I could get my in laws or my parents to take this course, I would easily spend 800 on it for both of them to have. Edward Jones and Raymond James Brokerage are easily taking enough of my wife and my future inheritance that this course would be worth the money if they would actually take it. Now I just need a course on how to convince family members to take this course.

There is a zero percent chance I will ever get either of them to search through this forum and wiki. A course would probably be more in line with something they would listen and respond to. They both just think I'm smart and that's the only reason I don't need a financial advisor, no matter what I say. Too many years of me telling my parents how some new tech works and them not understanding. They assume diy finance will be just another complex thing they won't understand. Bought them boggleheads guide to investing, but I'm pretty sure it's collecting dust.
Unfortunately, this is probably a common situation for most people as opposed to those of us who take an active interest in personal finance and seek out reliable information. Hell, I would suspect the majority of us here actually enjoy the stuff.

I gave my in-laws a copy of Jack Bogle's "The Little Book of Common Sense Investing, 10th Anniversary Edition"
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=230617

It was eye opening for them to say the least especially what they learned about their "helpers".

Also, "The Simple Path to Wealth" by JL Collins
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=201953
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by SeeMoe » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:19 pm

HueyLD wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:46 am
Why would any Boglehead pay so much money just to be told to fire his/her financial advisor?

As a capitalist, I think the money can be better utilized by investing in index funds.
Well, we fired our financial advisor after one year because We didn’t like the restrictions imposed on us. Plus we were not comfortable with so much international stock, and specifically international bonds! Now we have about 27% international stock and no international bonds. Plus, as retirees, we reset the AA from 50/50 to 40/60, and most are index funds with a small 0.09% annual fee.. No regrets and the folio takes hits better now when either bonds or stocks go down.

SeeMoe.. :mrgreen:
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Toons » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:32 pm

WCI
Keep Up The Good Work
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by pennstater2005 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:06 pm

Don't hate the player, hate the game :twisted:
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:08 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:25 pm
White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:39 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:06 pm
p.s. A shout out to the owners of this forum. When I read someone making money of others for personal finance advice I am MORE amazed the folks on this site have stuck to their ethics and don't charge and don't take advertisement money either. Much respect.
Many roads to Dublin. I love the Bogleheads forum (and wiki) and will be forever grateful to its creators, owners, donors, moderators, and participants.

But there is no Bogleheads podcast. No Bogleheads video course. No Bogleheads scholarship. Only three Bogleheads books. No jobs have been created by Bogleheads.
Actually, there is some help. Rick Van Ness has done considerable work in this area. He has videos plus newly developed classes.

Paul
Yes, Paul, I mentioned that above. You'll notice he is also charging for his courses. He's mostly just trying to cover his costs though.
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by rob » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:09 pm

I guess advertising is now allowed..... 3 pages of response and still not locked (tried to report but already done)....
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Taylor Larimore » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:17 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:59 am
Hi,

1. Has anyone taken this new $399 course ' Fire your Financial Advisor' by WhiteCoat Investor (line below) ? If yes, is the course worth the value $399?

https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/fire- ... ne-course/

2. Are there any similar 'paid' courses such as this beside our wiki ?

Any feedback would be much appreciated - thanks.
confusedinvestor:

Normally, I would pay little or no attention to such a course. However, Jim Dahle, editor of the (excellent) White Coat Investor website, is a Boglehead whom I have met and highly respect. Anything, he puts out is certain to be top quality. I am not surprised that Jim offers a money-back guarantee for (early) dissatisfaction. You can count on anything he says.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:17 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:45 pm
Not to beat a dead horse, but it is not fair to compare Mr. Ferri and Dr. Bernstein to WCI. The first two are PROFESSIONAL finance guys who have taken the certifying courses from the designated professional organizations that oversee personal finance. My guess is CFA. Correct me if I am mistaken, but WCI is NOT a professional financial advisor. I am not sure him doing this course is even legal. I can see the CFA and/or the SEC folks view this as someone scamming folks out of their hard earned money. Not saying WCI is doing, but I sure hope he has talked to lawyers before doing this.

Good luck.
I had a nice discussion on Twitter about this earlier this week with a number of folks and in the end we all agreed it was similar to writing a financial book- since it isn't personalized financial advice, it falls into the same category as my blog, podcast, newsletter, and book. We also agreed the SEC has way better stuff to do than come after this sort of thing anyway. What's next? Bloggers? Podcasters? Authors? And the CFA institute? Their only job is to police CFAs. No CFA, no jurisdiction and they don't have power to do anything but revoke your CFA anyway.

It's actually a far bigger worry for someone employed as a financial advisor. I can get away with doing a lot of things that they can't because I make it very clear to all of my readers and students that I am NOT a licensed financial advisor, CPA, or attorney.

By the way, Bill Bernstein has the same graduate degree that I do. :) Actually that's not entirely true. He has a PhD in Chemistry too. My only chemistry degree was an undergraduate one.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:32 pm

rob wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:09 pm
I guess advertising is now allowed..... 3 pages of response and still not locked (tried to report but already done)....
I'm not sure you understand how advertising works. You'll notice the original post is not by me. In fact, my first post in this thread is # 70. Nor have I linked to or even given directions to the course. In fact, regarding the course, I have only answered questions about it.

At any rate, my marketing plan for this course did not include posting on Bogleheads. Not only because that isn't permitted, but because people who hang out on forums like this one aren't the target audience. If you have 1000 posts on this forum, you don't need a course like this.

The course does refer people to this forum though, which I suppose is kind of like advertising.
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by rob » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:00 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:32 pm
rob wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:09 pm
I guess advertising is now allowed..... 3 pages of response and still not locked (tried to report but already done)....
I'm not sure you understand how advertising works. <cut>
lol - If you only knew... Yeah, I've got a better than average idea :D
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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by MiddleOfTheRoad » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:04 pm

People should just stop the pettiness, jealousy and hate. Be happy for wci’s success. Sure, he crowdsourced a lot of his knowledge here, but he also contributed plenty. That is the whole point of a public forum. I can tell you 90% of the personal finance books/media have nothing new, just presented things differently to different target audience.

A small suggestion to WCI. If you have not already, maybe direct some of your yearly charitable givings to Bogleheads.org. The haters will have nothing to latch on.

Remind me how this forum lose Swedroe?

Respectfully,
Last edited by MiddleOfTheRoad on Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Will do good » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:04 pm

I have learned so much from WCI. I'll be happy to pay for the new course for my kids if they are interested and willing to learn.
Comparing to the how much I already paid for their college education ($400k+), this is cheap.

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by somekevinguy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:09 pm

Normally, I would pay little or no attention to such a course. However, Jim Dahle, editor of the (excellent) White Coat Investor website, is a Boglehead whom I have met and highly respect. Anything, he puts out is certain to be top quality. I am not surprised that Jim offers a money-back guarantee for (early) dissatisfaction. You can count on anything he says.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Yep- what Taylor says. I think Jim has done more to alter my financial life than well, anyone. Graduating med school, I had never even heard of an emergency fund or high yield savings account, let alone a backdoor Roth or the 3 fund portfolio. WCI changed all that for me and I'm reasonably close to FI less than 5 years out of training. Plus, Jim has answered personal emails from me, some guy he's never met, several times over the last few years. He is definitely one of the good guys, already offers an incredible wealth of information for free via his website, is super clear about the intended audience for the course, and really should be commended for all his contributions.

I suspect those criticizing WCI (despite his great attitude and humor regarding critical feedback) haven't really read his book, perused his website, etc. Take a look and perhaps it'll change your mind.

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Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:16 pm

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