$399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Da5id
Posts: 2119
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:20 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Da5id » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:46 am

Rowan Oak wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:38 am
I think having the information organized in a way a new investor can start from scratch the right way is worth a good amount. In the beginning a lot of time/money can be wasted trying to sort this information out yourself. Since the target audience is doctors this makes more sense for them than anyone else.
And having it from a trusted source, a fellow doctor with a highly regarded book and a stellar reputation in the area, is also worth quite a good amount. There is tons of conflicting advice out there, having it all in one place has value. Not for me, but I can totally see that doctors may well get their money worth. And they can have their money back if they feel they didn't get value for it.

User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:02 am
Location: Alaska

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Bruce » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:49 am

Not sure why WCI is taking any heat from forum members here. He is very transparent about his conflicts of interest and the progress of his WCI website, newsletter and blog, or as he calls it the "White Coat Investor Empire!"

No one was slamming Rick Ferri or Bill Bernstein for offering investment information and advice, as a business as well as on the forum.

WCI still works as an ER doc. He deployed overseas in the military as a doctor. He was one of the contributors to The Bogleheads' Guide to Retirement Planning. He freely shares his knowledge with forum members here.

Clearly he is one of the GOOD guys in the investing advice wilderness jungle.

WCI saw that approach of reading books and forums alone still did not solve the unmet needs of many of his fellow medical professionals, and after wrote his book and created his WCI website and forum, and now is expanding his brand with an online course. I applaud his efforts .

It appears most Bogleheads can do it themselves and do not need this course, you can get all the same information for free by taking the time to read his website and forum, and other books.

But most people are not Bogleheads, and there is still much value in compressing the learning curve and creating a guided methodical step by step approach focused on the unique issues of his niche market.

I wish him great success.

regards
Bruce | | Winner of the 2017 Bogleheads Contest | | "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 8658
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:53 am

HueyLD wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:46 am
Why would any Boglehead pay so much money just to be told to fire his/her financial advisor?

As a capitalist, I think the money can be better utilized by investing in index funds.
Pick up the phone, call Vanguard VPAS, follow the path. . . . . done.
Or. . . read the Bogle Wiki library, follow the path. . . . done.
Somewhere in there . . . email your FA. . . . "thanks for your time. . . etc".. . . done.
j :D
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

Whakamole
Posts: 1097
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:59 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Whakamole » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:55 am

$399 is much less than the average person loses by purchasing loaded funds, high-cost active funds, going with an advisor who charges AUM. WCI readily says if you can do the research yourself, the course isn't for you.

Is it a "good deal"? - I'm not sure, from the comments it sounds like this involves videos which means purchasing filming equipment, editing, and other production costs. It may be good for someone who likes to watch videos and wants a bit more hand-holding instead of just reading all the content on the WCI site.

We don't criticize Swedroe or Bernstein when they write books, I really don't see much of a difference.

WL2034
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:36 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by WL2034 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:00 pm

triceratop wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:39 am
nisiprius wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:33 am
Well, the actual subject material seems to be how to create your own financial plan. The "Fire your Financial Advisor" is just the hook.

I'm reading the material correctly, this course does not include any direct human interaction; it's basically a book with online interactive worksheets and tests. You can't ask questions, and you don't get personal correction or comments on your assignments.. Is that correct?
The answer to this question is only available to Triceratop Platinum clients.

Five cents, please.
:D :sharebeer

As for the initial question, I suppose it's worth $399 to someone, and those people are unlikely to be members of this forum. I find the membership packages at Bogleheads to provide a better value.
Last edited by WL2034 on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Rowan Oak
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:11 pm
Location: Yoknapatawpha

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Rowan Oak » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:02 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:53 am
HueyLD wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:46 am
Why would any Boglehead pay so much money just to be told to fire his/her financial advisor?

As a capitalist, I think the money can be better utilized by investing in index funds.
Pick up the phone, call Vanguard VPAS, follow the path. . . . . done.
Or. . . read the Bogle Wiki library, follow the path. . . . done.
Somewhere in there . . . email your FA. . . . "thanks for your time. . . etc".. . . done.
j :D
I agree with you, but I think it takes a lot of learning and understanding to get to the point you can follow this simple path.
Last edited by Rowan Oak on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger

deltaneutral83
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:02 pm

Bruce wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:49 am
Not sure why WCI is taking any heat from forum members here. He is very transparent about his conflicts of interest and the progress of his WCI website, newsletter and blog, or as he calls it the "White Coat Investor Empire!"
Well, a lot of BH, as intelligent and as wealthy as some are, are similar to the folks on most Home Owners Association, in that they are against anything that is outside there own perceived rigid methodology. There are some less attractive "financial plans" in motion as we speak, that...let's just say are not optimal and it's simply not feasible to think everyone can be a DIY passive investor by coming to this specific website and reading for hours on end. I don't know why BHs have trouble admitting that. WCI is a valuable contributor and he will no doubt save plenty of physicians a lot more than $400 bucks. Many of us would have saved that much in an eye blink years ago if we knew about DIY passive investing. I'd have paid exponentially more ten years ago than $400 to have found out about passive investing.

somekevinguy
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by somekevinguy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:04 pm

Bruce wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:49 am
Not sure why WCI is taking any heat from forum members here. He is very transparent about his conflicts of interest and the progress of his WCI website, newsletter and blog, or as he calls it the "White Coat Investor Empire!"

No one was slamming Rick Ferri or Bill Bernstein for offering investment information and advice, as a business as well as on the forum.

WCI still works as an ER doc. He deployed overseas in the military as a doctor. He was one of the contributors to The Bogleheads' Guide to Retirement Planning. He freely shares his knowledge with forum members here.

Clearly he is one of the GOOD guys in the investing advice wilderness jungle.

WCI saw that approach of reading books and forums alone still did not solve the unmet needs of many of his fellow medical professionals, and after wrote his book and created his WCI website and forum, and now is expanding his brand with an online course. I applaud his efforts .

It appears most Bogleheads can do it themselves and do not need this course, you can get all the same information for free by taking the time to read his website and forum, and other books.

But most people are not Bogleheads, and there is still much value in compressing the learning curve and creating a guided methodical step by step approach focused on the unique issues of his niche market.

I wish him great success.

regards
+1

Sockpuppet
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:06 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Sockpuppet » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:31 am
Sockpuppet wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:32 am
bottlecap wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:13 am
I'm sure it’s mean for "busy" doctors who a) have hundred dollar bills dangling from their chins after eating at nice restaurants, b) don’t feel they have the time to learn by roaming either this site or whitecoatinvestor.com, and c) don’t value any advice unless they pay for it.

If you have time to post on Bogleheads.org, you probably don’t fit this category, but I would venture to say that the course is well worth the money for someone who feels they do.

JT
Studies have shown doctors are among the most financially illiterate groups out there. So this could be value for them, especially as physicians are often short on time.
You sure about that? My doctor must be a rarity, he advised me to keep working as long as I possibly can, save as much as possible.
Yes. Not only are doctors often financially illiterate they are also very prone to falling for scams.

It's a high paid profession that gets practically no training when it comes to finances.

User avatar
Alexa9
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:41 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Alexa9 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm

I get a "Haha I'm better than financial advisors because I'm a doctor" vibe from this guy like he has a vendetta against them. A good financial advisor is worth it to some people although there are shady ones. I could say the same about doctors and I've received as much bad advice from them as financial advisors. Also his whole idea that somehow investing is different because it's for doctors is flawed.

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 8658
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:08 pm

Rowan Oak wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:02 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:53 am
HueyLD wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:46 am
Why would any Boglehead pay so much money just to be told to fire his/her financial advisor?

As a capitalist, I think the money can be better utilized by investing in index funds.
Pick up the phone, call Vanguard VPAS, follow the path. . . . . done.
Or. . . read the Bogle Wiki library, follow the path. . . . done.
Somewhere in there . . . email your FA. . . . "thanks for your time. . . etc".. . . done.
j :D
I agree with you, but I think it takes a lot of learning and understanding to get to the point you can follow this simple path.
Absolutely true.
Thank goodness for the Bogle forum and the Wiki. If not for the helpful folks here, many (myself included) might be adrift. . . . . :shock:
j :D
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

Da5id
Posts: 2119
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:20 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Da5id » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:11 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm
Also his whole idea that somehow investing is different because it's for doctors is flawed.
Hmm. I'm not a doctor, but seems to me like there are some areas where financial planning is different for doctors. Investing is probably about the same as for other high income folks. WCI covers investing but also financial planning.

User avatar
Alexa9
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:41 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Alexa9 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm

Da5id wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:11 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm
Also his whole idea that somehow investing is different because it's for doctors is flawed.
Hmm. I'm not a doctor, but seems to me like there are some areas where financial planning is different for doctors. Investing is probably about the same as for other high income folks. WCI covers investing but also financial planning.
Ok where? More average debt, higher average income?
Financial Planning for Lawyer Dummies
Financial Planning for Engineer Dummies
etc.
They're not that different.

quantAndHold
Posts: 3552
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by quantAndHold » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:25 pm

First, not sure there’s anything actionable here. But I’ll jump in....

WCI is one of the good guys. There are lots of people out there, not just physicians, who don’t have the slightest clue about financial planning, and WCI has been providing a useful service to them for several years. If he has created a course and wants to monetize his outreach, good for him.

Second, not everyone came out of the womb understanding Boglehead principles. Doctors, especially, get a very late start, often start their careers with significant loan balances, suddenly have incomes that can feel like a windfall, and go from working 80-90 hours per week to “only” 60 hours. So they haven’t exactly had time to do the googling and exploring and reading that most of us do before we get enough money in our accounts to make a difference. Also, there’s a lot more to financial planning than “3-fund portfolio.” For one thing, if you don’t understand why the 3-fund portfolio works, you’ll never be able to stick to it.

When I was in my late 20’s, I took an eight week personal financial planning course from a local college extension program. It cost the equivalent of $399, in early 90’s money. It went through all the basics from calculating net worth to budgeting, insurance, investing, and estate planning. It is still, to this day, the most important act of my financial life. It’s also where I heard about Jack Bogle. So I suspect that the $399 course will change a few lives for the better.

Whakamole
Posts: 1097
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:59 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Whakamole » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm
Da5id wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:11 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm
Also his whole idea that somehow investing is different because it's for doctors is flawed.
Hmm. I'm not a doctor, but seems to me like there are some areas where financial planning is different for doctors. Investing is probably about the same as for other high income folks. WCI covers investing but also financial planning.
Ok where? More average debt, higher average income?
Financial Planning for Lawyer Dummies
Financial Planning for Engineer Dummies
etc.
They're not that different.
Liability insurance and asset protection (two of the classes in the WCI course.) Not a big deal for the average engineer, umbrella is fine. I'm guessing this is a much bigger deal for physicians.

Da5id
Posts: 2119
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:20 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Da5id » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm
Ok where? More average debt, higher average income?
Financial Planning for Lawyer Dummies
Financial Planning for Engineer Dummies
etc.
They're not that different.
Much higher college debt and income. Managing liability and disability insurance. For independent doctors, small business and tax issues. Probably lots of other issues too.

Look, WCI site has tons of totally free useful information for doctors and others. The course is extra for those who want it. We all learn things in different ways. Some can read, some need stuff told to them, etc. YMMV.

As to those who say do it all yourselves, most of us do that here in bogleheads. But assuming you are willing to choose to trust someone like WCI, it is a real time saver. If you come to bogleheads forums for advice, you will find:

You should own a house. You should rent.
You should pay off your mortgage. You should not pay off your mortgage.
You should invest 0% in international. You should invest 50% international.
Dividends are manna from heaven. Dividends investing isn't a strategy.
Umbrella insurance is important. Umbrella insurance is not needed.
You can retire at 25x spending. No, that is unsafe, you need 40x or 50x.
60/40 is a good allocation. No, 90-100% stocks is the way to go at all ages.
One should buy a Rolex. No, one should get a Timex.

You can try and sort that out, which is my approach. But I think for a doctor under time pressure, paying a few hours wages to WCI to hear a discussion of all you need to know to do it on your own sounds like a fair enough approach to me.

User avatar
Rowan Oak
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:11 pm
Location: Yoknapatawpha

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Rowan Oak » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:37 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm
Da5id wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:11 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm
Also his whole idea that somehow investing is different because it's for doctors is flawed.
Hmm. I'm not a doctor, but seems to me like there are some areas where financial planning is different for doctors. Investing is probably about the same as for other high income folks. WCI covers investing but also financial planning.
Ok where? More average debt, higher average income?
Financial Planning for Lawyer Dummies
Financial Planning for Engineer Dummies
etc.
They're not that different.
Much of WCI content is tailored for doctors. Usually it is regarding higher than average student loans, "How to Live Like a Resident", disability and liability insurance specifically with doctors in mind, etc.. Of course much of the information at WCI is good for any investor, but if I was a doctor or medical student, especially one in residency (before too much damage is done), it would be a great place to learn in addition to the Bogleheads forum.

Also, (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong) high income professionals such as doctors are huge targets for the "helpers" of the insurance and advisor industries being sold terrible investments such as annuities, whole life insurance, and high fee front loaded active mutual funds, etc.. We're all targets, of course, but these helpers of the finance industry start with the most lucrative options.
Last edited by Rowan Oak on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger

pkcrafter
Posts: 13743
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:19 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by pkcrafter » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:43 pm

White Coat Investor's class is specifically aimed at doctors with very high incomes. They do require selective help in money management.

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

livesoft
Posts: 69586
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by livesoft » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:44 pm

I'm amused by this thread. WCI probably got tired of e-mails asking him "How do I fire my financial advisor?" At least now his answer can be simple: "Click on this."
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:48 pm

iceport wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:13 am
WCI, or "Emergdoc" as we knew him when he was an active forum member,
What do you mean "when"? :) Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years. I'm still the 18th most prolific poster on the forum.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:00 pm

student wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:04 am
WCI: If you are reading this, please do not let the negative comments bother you. I enjoy reading your posts and I understand that the course is not aimed at bogleheads in general.
Not at all. I actually appreciate the feedback.

But most of the posters in this thread are exactly right- if you are capable of making your own financial plan, if you enjoy spending hours on internet forums, or if you have or will read a dozen financial books, this course is not for you. That describes most of the posters on this thread and many of the members of this forum. I certainly received my financial education by reading books, free blogs, and hanging out on this forum. I know that method works. I also know there many who are not interested in doing that, but still want to be do-it-yourselfers and would love to have the most important concepts packaged up into a course like this.

It's important to distinguish the hobbyists from those who are do-it-yourselfers but not hobbyists like the folks that check in here once every year or two. You and I are hobbyists. The course isn't for us. But that doesn't mean it isn't for anybody. I assure you the market exists, the market has asked for it repeatedly, and the market appreciates it. A bunch of people have bought it and nobody has returned it yet. (Of course, it hasn't been 7 days since it launched.)

Surprisingly, a lot of people have bought it to take with their less-interested spouse or partner. They're a hobbyist, but their spouse isn't, and it's a good way to get the spouse up to speed.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:04 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:21 am
Looks like the White Coat Investor is going to retire soon and get some side gigs going. That is his choice and I am happy for him, if it is.
I have no plans to retire. I have both an enjoyable practice and an enjoyable business where I'm excited about the mission and about the excellent jobs we're creating with it.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by staythecourse » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:06 pm

iceport wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:13 am
triceratop wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:08 am
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?" --AI in WarGames (1983) :D

I want to emphasize that our wiki is very much not 'paid'. It is a volunteer effort and all information is provided freely (gratis). The same goes for all assistance on the forum. And at the risk of ruining my own snark with even more explanation: the idea of spending $399 on a course on how to fire one's financial advisor appears to this reader to be an exercise in NewSpeak.
I wholeheartedly agree.

WCI, or "Emergdoc" as we knew him when he was an active forum member, provided a great deal of insight here in the past. He was open and generous in sharing information, and for that I am truly grateful. However, now that he only maintains a token presence, there are plenty of other intelligent and wise people here still willing to share their insight for free.

This is still the best place to come for wisdom in investing and personal finances, donated by folks that have no profit motivation whatsoever other than the satisfaction of helping others.The only place I recommend to others without reservation is the Bogleheads forum, whether they're high income doctors or not.
Agreed. Seems to be a great guy/ poster, but if you read this site and then go to his it is VERY similar. I don't think you need to spend $399 to improve yourself with your personal finances.

Good luck.

p.s. A shout out to the owners of this forum. When I read someone making money of others for personal finance advice I am MORE amazed the folks on this site have stuck to their ethics and don't charge and don't take advertisement money either. Much respect.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 9745
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm

CollegePrudens wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:54 am
Third, I think it will be counterproductive to point to actual posts on a live thread. My goal was provide (a very small) nudge to maintain the excellent (relative to other online forums including email) tone that we have on this forum.

My apologies if I rubbed you the wrong way.
No problem; you didn't really rub me the wrong way, I think perhaps (even with my preamble about being a capitalist) I wasn't clear. Let me give you a, imo, similar situation.

A friend recommended a book called Bright Line Eating (BLE). I purchased the hardcover edition. I learned a lot from it about the potential harmful effects of flour, sugar, and sugar substitutes. The book was well worth what I paid for it. I also paid for a BLE bootcamp, which was good value for someone who followed through, which I didn't, because I found some of their regimentation to be contrary to my personality (weighing every meal, for example). Anyway, although I quit in time to get a refund, I didn't ask for it, because I should have known what I was getting into, but I was just being obtuse. What did get my knickers in a twist was the self-serving recommendation to keep a journal, not any old journal, but an over-priced one at Amazon with an affiliate link, and constant email offers from other affiliated enterprises. That made me sad. I'm an adult, and it's my fault, but I still found it sad. The author should have been happy with the book sale and the bootcamp tuition. But, adults can disagree, and that's what makes horse races.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

User avatar
Alexa9
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:41 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Alexa9 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm

Da5id wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:35 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm
Ok where? More average debt, higher average income?
Financial Planning for Lawyer Dummies
Financial Planning for Engineer Dummies
etc.
They're not that different.
Much higher college debt and income. Managing liability and disability insurance. For independent doctors, small business and tax issues. Probably lots of other issues too.

Look, WCI site has tons of totally free useful information for doctors and others. The course is extra for those who want it. We all learn things in different ways. Some can read, some need stuff told to them, etc. YMMV.

As to those who say do it all yourselves, most of us do that here in bogleheads. But assuming you are willing to choose to trust someone like WCI, it is a real time saver. If you come to bogleheads forums for advice, you will find:

You should own a house. You should rent.
You should pay off your mortgage. You should not pay off your mortgage.
You should invest 0% in international. You should invest 50% international.
Dividends are manna from heaven. Dividends investing isn't a strategy.
Umbrella insurance is important. Umbrella insurance is not needed.
You can retire at 25x spending. No, that is unsafe, you need 40x or 50x.
60/40 is a good allocation. No, 90-100% stocks is the way to go at all ages.
One should buy a Rolex. No, one should get a Timex.
Doctors are smart enough to read this forum and make their own decisions. Personally I don't like that he is selling the free information developed on this site for a profit. It's as shady as your local Edward Jones.

User avatar
Rowan Oak
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:11 pm
Location: Yoknapatawpha

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Rowan Oak » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:12 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm
Da5id wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:35 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm
Ok where? More average debt, higher average income?
Financial Planning for Lawyer Dummies
Financial Planning for Engineer Dummies
etc.
They're not that different.
Much higher college debt and income. Managing liability and disability insurance. For independent doctors, small business and tax issues. Probably lots of other issues too.

Look, WCI site has tons of totally free useful information for doctors and others. The course is extra for those who want it. We all learn things in different ways. Some can read, some need stuff told to them, etc. YMMV.

As to those who say do it all yourselves, most of us do that here in bogleheads. But assuming you are willing to choose to trust someone like WCI, it is a real time saver. If you come to bogleheads forums for advice, you will find:

You should own a house. You should rent.
You should pay off your mortgage. You should not pay off your mortgage.
You should invest 0% in international. You should invest 50% international.
Dividends are manna from heaven. Dividends investing isn't a strategy.
Umbrella insurance is important. Umbrella insurance is not needed.
You can retire at 25x spending. No, that is unsafe, you need 40x or 50x.
60/40 is a good allocation. No, 90-100% stocks is the way to go at all ages.
One should buy a Rolex. No, one should get a Timex.

It's as shady as your local Edward Jones.
This isn't true.
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger

Da5id
Posts: 2119
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:20 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Da5id » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:15 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm
Doctors are smart enough to read this forum and make their own decisions. Personally I don't like that he is selling the free information developed on this site for a profit. It's as shady as your local Edward Jones.
WCI has tons of free stuff on his site (OK, he has ads, so "free" to users means also selling their eyeballs). Parts that I've read are all good stuff IMHO. He has taken time and effort to produce a 7 hour video course with quizzes and such, and is selling it at what the market will bear. Comparing him to Edward Jones is bizzare and unwarranted. IMHO of course. But you are free to produce a free 7 hour video to compete with him to right this (in your opinion) wrong that he is foisting on these poor doctors.

You also should distinguish "smart" and "have time and interest". I am smart enough to learn to fix my own car. To do my own plumbing/construction/electrical work. I don't have time or interest to acquire the knowledge to do those activities for myself.

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:22 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:33 am
Well, the actual subject material seems to be how to create your own financial plan. The "Fire your Financial Advisor" is just the hook.

I'm reading the material correctly, this course does not include any direct human interaction; it's basically a book with online interactive worksheets and tests. You can't ask questions, and you don't get personal correction or comments on your assignments.. Is that correct?
I don't think I'd compare it to a book. It's far closer to what I do when I go out and speak to groups of physicians with some additional elements added in. It includes videos, screencasts, pre-test, post-test, quizzes, explanations of the right and wrong answers, worksheets, and assignments. Probably 8-9 hours total to do everything. But you can do as much or as little as you like, take it in any order, take it with a partner, rewatch any part of it any time you like forever, do it on any device etc. It can also be modified easily in response to feedback. If people want more of something, we can add it to the course.

I don't plan to have anyone turn in or grade any assignments (although the quizzes/tests are graded) nor is there any prescribed interaction with participants. I answer questions every day for free for everyone whether they enroll in the course or not so it seemed silly to add it to the course.

If forum participants find this course too expensive but want to try an online course, they might try Rick Van Ness's course.

https://financinglife.org/beginner-investor-start-here/

He is excellent at simplifying the Boglehead way, but I wasn't surprised to see him charging for his course (where he hasn't charged for his videos in the past and his books costs a trivial amount) once I found out how much time, work, and money went in to creating one of these things. My wife and I basically spent every free minute for two months of our lives creating this thing. We spent something like $3K in software, lights, camera, microphones, mixers etc. It costs a monthly fee to host the course etc.

For those who like to learn this way, it's a great thing. For those who prefer another way, there are forums, blogs, podcasts, videocasts, books, and newsletters, all of which are ways I'm trying to get the WCI message out. The target market for this course is a minority of my readers/listeners/viewers and an even smaller percentage of Bogleheads forum members. If you want it, great. If you don't need it, even better. If you aren't sure, heck, you can try it free. I promise I won't be offended if you want your money back.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:28 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm
I get a "Haha I'm better than financial advisors because I'm a doctor" vibe from this guy like he has a vendetta against them. A good financial advisor is worth it to some people although there are shady ones. I could say the same about doctors and I've received as much bad advice from them as financial advisors. Also his whole idea that somehow investing is different because it's for doctors is flawed.
I agree. It isn't the investing that's different. It's the financial planning, mostly in four areas:

1) Figuring out how to financially deal with a sudden quintupling of your income and a late start
2) Dealing with massive quantities of students loans (met a couple owing $900K last week)
3) Asset protection concerns (mostly overblown)
4) Some unique retirement account related issues like multiple 401(k)s, Backdoor Roth IRAs, DB/CB plans etc.

But the investing, I agree, no big difference.

The "vibe" you mention is more marketing than anything else To build a "tribe" it helps if there is an opponent out there. My tribe's opponents is vaguely known as "Wall Street." As you'll notice on the site, I have plenty of ads purchased by financial advisors. I advocate doing it yourself if want and can do a good job, but otherwise to find someone who offers good advice at a fair price.

I agree there are lots of issues with health care. You should consider starting a blog to bring more attention to them.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

deltaneutral83
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:29 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm
Doctors are smart enough to read this forum and make their own decisions. Personally I don't like that he is selling the free information developed on this site for a profit. It's as shady as your local Edward Jones.
You are passionate about DIY investing to the point that it has impacted your rationality on the topic. WCI previously mentioned the market reached out to him to put this education together and package it as they are willing to pay for it. Any businessman that ignores his target audience (which in this case is NOT BH) is not helping his business. If the take away someone has from WCI is overall negative, or even to the point of Edward Jones comparisons, one has some soul searching to do.

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:31 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:44 pm
I'm amused by this thread. WCI probably got tired of e-mails asking him "How do I fire my financial advisor?" At least now his answer can be simple: "Click on this."
I actually have a post titled that which I have referred them to for years. In fact, every time I start getting a question frequently, I write a post on it for just that reason.

Forums are great. I like forums. It turns out not every one likes forums. But every one needs to become financially literate somehow.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:32 pm

Rowan Oak wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:37 pm
Also, (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong) high income professionals such as doctors are huge targets for the "helpers" of the insurance and advisor industries being sold terrible investments such as annuities, whole life insurance, and high fee front loaded active mutual funds, etc.. We're all targets, of course, but these helpers of the finance industry start with the most lucrative options.
Unfortunately true. How many financial firms have you seen out there that specialize in engineers? I rest my case.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

Whakamole
Posts: 1097
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:59 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Whakamole » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:35 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:00 pm
student wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:04 am
WCI: If you are reading this, please do not let the negative comments bother you. I enjoy reading your posts and I understand that the course is not aimed at bogleheads in general.
Not at all. I actually appreciate the feedback.

But most of the posters in this thread are exactly right- if you are capable of making your own financial plan, if you enjoy spending hours on internet forums, or if you have or will read a dozen financial books, this course is not for you. That describes most of the posters on this thread and many of the members of this forum. I certainly received my financial education by reading books, free blogs, and hanging out on this forum. I know that method works. I also know there many who are not interested in doing that, but still want to be do-it-yourselfers and would love to have the most important concepts packaged up into a course like this.

It's important to distinguish the hobbyists from those who are do-it-yourselfers but not hobbyists like the folks that check in here once every year or two. You and I are hobbyists. The course isn't for us. But that doesn't mean it isn't for anybody. I assure you the market exists, the market has asked for it repeatedly, and the market appreciates it. A bunch of people have bought it and nobody has returned it yet. (Of course, it hasn't been 7 days since it launched.)

Surprisingly, a lot of people have bought it to take with their less-interested spouse or partner. They're a hobbyist, but their spouse isn't, and it's a good way to get the spouse up to speed.
Agreed.

Here is another way to think about it: it is much cheaper to do your own asset allocation for a three-fund portfolio and managing the glide path over time than purchasing a Vanguard Target Date fund (which uses investor-share funds and thus has a higher ER) - you can cut the annual cost by half if you roll your own and use admiral shares or ETFs. I think most people on this forum do just that, I certainly do. I also know people who have little interest in investing, much less rebalancing and tax optimization; for them the Target Date funds are perfect because even with the added cost, they are much better than the alternatives. I've certainly recommended the TD funds to friends like this.

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:39 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:06 pm
p.s. A shout out to the owners of this forum. When I read someone making money of others for personal finance advice I am MORE amazed the folks on this site have stuck to their ethics and don't charge and don't take advertisement money either. Much respect.
Many roads to Dublin. I love the Bogleheads forum (and wiki) and will be forever grateful to its creators, owners, donors, moderators, and participants.

But there is no Bogleheads podcast. No Bogleheads video course. No Bogleheads scholarship. Only three Bogleheads books. No jobs have been created by Bogleheads.

Some things are best done free. Some things are best done for profit. There are pluses and minuses either way. Eliminate the conflicts of interest and do less. Disclose the conflicts of interest and do more. Different strokes for different folks. Take what you like and leave the rest, like everything else in life.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:42 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm
Doctors are smart enough to read this forum and make their own decisions. Personally I don't like that he is selling the free information developed on this site for a profit. It's as shady as your local Edward Jones.
I wish Edward Jones would sell the information on this site for a profit. That would be wonderful.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

Whakamole
Posts: 1097
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:59 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Whakamole » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:44 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:32 pm
Rowan Oak wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:37 pm
Also, (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong) high income professionals such as doctors are huge targets for the "helpers" of the insurance and advisor industries being sold terrible investments such as annuities, whole life insurance, and high fee front loaded active mutual funds, etc.. We're all targets, of course, but these helpers of the finance industry start with the most lucrative options.
Unfortunately true. How many financial firms have you seen out there that specialize in engineers? I rest my case.
I work for a tech company and we have an agreement with one of the companies that promises to manage your 401k allocation for a price via our 401k provider. But thankfully we have a thriving internal forum for discussing investing, and people who ask about them are guided towards things like our very low cost BlackRock target date funds (index-based and costs only 8 basis points.) Pretty soon they are writing spreadsheets and running Monte Carlo simulations to determine the best asset allocation, because most techies like problem-solving for optimization because that is what we do for a living.

I'd like to know what their response rate is, engineers tend to ask lots of questions and many of them can be uncomfortable.

patholoraptor
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:13 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by patholoraptor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:44 pm

WCI, your book and blog have helped me a ton over the past few years. I am your target audience, and you have, without question, saved me tens--if not hundreds--of thousands of dollars in stupid decisions avoided.

If I were still a beginner, I'd sign up for your course in a second. I admire what you've built, and do not begrudge you the success you're having with your "side hustle". In my view, you are adding value by organizing information and presenting it in an appealing and accessible way.

Thank you, and best of luck with your new endeavor. If I ever meet you in person, beers are on me.

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:52 pm

Whakamole wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:44 pm
engineers tend to ask lots of questions and many of them can be uncomfortable.
I've had advisors tell me engineers are their worst clients. I suspect that may be one reason why. My dad is an engineer and I help him manage his own portfolio. I'm not surprised to see many engineer DIY investors.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by staythecourse » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:53 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:39 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:06 pm
p.s. A shout out to the owners of this forum. When I read someone making money of others for personal finance advice I am MORE amazed the folks on this site have stuck to their ethics and don't charge and don't take advertisement money either. Much respect.
Many roads to Dublin. I love the Bogleheads forum (and wiki) and will be forever grateful to its creators, owners, donors, moderators, and participants.

But there is no Bogleheads podcast. No Bogleheads video course. No Bogleheads scholarship. Only three Bogleheads books. No jobs have been created by Bogleheads.

Some things are best done free. Some things are best done for profit. There are pluses and minuses either way. Eliminate the conflicts of interest and do less. Disclose the conflicts of interest and do more. Different strokes for different folks. Take what you like and leave the rest, like everything else in life.
Sorry that fortune cookie mantra doesn't pass mustard. You see an avenue making money delivering financial information to folks. Nothing wrong with that. But, that is what many, such as Dave Ramsey and others do and they get the same flack as you will get. Not wrong, but no reason to dress it up any different. You want to make money and you see a way of doing it. That is as American as you can get.

Good luck.

p.s. I would be more worried about giving out financial advice when you are NOT a finance professional. I am sure there will be an issue of liability if something goes wrong. Hope you discussed this with some lawyers before going down this path.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

User avatar
dodecahedron
Posts: 4912
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:28 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by dodecahedron » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:53 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm
Da5id wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:11 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm
Also his whole idea that somehow investing is different because it's for doctors is flawed.
Hmm. I'm not a doctor, but seems to me like there are some areas where financial planning is different for doctors. Investing is probably about the same as for other high income folks. WCI covers investing but also financial planning.
Ok where? More average debt, higher average income?
Lots more financial decisions for docs that most people do not face. Here are a few special issues that occur to me, just from casual perusal of his (engagingly written) blog, which generally makes me grateful I am not a physician.

More professional liability (malpractice) exposure and asset protection considerations
More decisions about investing in expensive medical equipment & how to recover costs through billing codes
Whether to go with managed care plans and capitation, how to evaluate which insurance plans to accept and how to decide on whether to outsource billing,
How to value buying into an existing practice or how to decide what deal to offer a prospective junior partner
What kind of fringe benefits (retirement, disability, health ins) to offer your employees (& self)
More complicated menu of options for dealing with student loan debt for physicians

Slacker
Posts: 721
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Slacker » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:12 pm

I see nothing wrong with what WCI is doing. I too am not the intended market for this product but I HAVE used a similar product from someone with a similar marketing strategy.

AthleanX on Youtube is very prolific in producing videos (yes, youtubers do make money from advertisers but the information is essentially free for viewers). You could very easily take AthleanX videos from youtube and make a great workout plan as he "gives away" every bit of information you need including some basic physical therapy details on various injuries and pains (the guy who owns/runs AthleanX trained as a physical therapist and strength coach). The information is very good but I couldn't be bothered to put together my own workout plan so I just purchased his workout programming from his website. I find EXCELLENT value in having paid $99 for the first 12week program and then another $77 for the second 12 week program even though these programs could easily be built for free from his Youtube channel - however, I probably wouldn't have put it together in such an optimal fashion with the specific progressions and elements that he did.

WCI is likely doing essentially the same thing. I would definitely find value in what he is offering if Personal Finance were not a hobby I really enjoy learning about on my own.

(Disclaimer: I did not go to the link and read any descriptions of what is being offered and have no affiliation with WCI; I also have no affiliation with AthleanX other than as a satisfied customer)

cutterinnj
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:08 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by cutterinnj » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:24 pm

Although it’s incredibly basic for bh, I do buy the wci book for all of my new docs.

That said, I can’t imagine what you would get for $400 that you don’t already have.

Would steer clear.

cutterinnj
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:08 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by cutterinnj » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:27 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:53 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm
Da5id wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:11 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm
Also his whole idea that somehow investing is different because it's for doctors is flawed.
Hmm. I'm not a doctor, but seems to me like there are some areas where financial planning is different for doctors. Investing is probably about the same as for other high income folks. WCI covers investing but also financial planning.
Ok where? More average debt, higher average income?
Lots more financial decisions for docs that most people do not face. Here are a few special issues that occur to me, just from casual perusal of his (engagingly written) blog, which generally makes me grateful I am not a physician.

More professional liability (malpractice) exposure and asset protection considerations
More decisions about investing in expensive medical equipment & how to recover costs through billing codes
Whether to go with managed care plans and capitation, how to evaluate which insurance plans to accept and how to decide on whether to outsource billing,
How to value buying into an existing practice or how to decide what deal to offer a prospective junior partner
What kind of fringe benefits (retirement, disability, health ins) to offer your employees (& self)
More complicated menu of options for dealing with student loan debt for physicians

Being a doctor, I disagree that we are any more special than anyone else with the exception of liability insurance- and that’s not really something to worry about assuming you have the necessary coverage.

cutterinnj
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:08 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by cutterinnj » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:32 pm

Whakamole wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:35 pm
White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:00 pm
student wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:04 am
WCI: If you are reading this, please do not let the negative comments bother you. I enjoy reading your posts and I understand that the course is not aimed at bogleheads in general.
Not at all. I actually appreciate the feedback.

But most of the posters in this thread are exactly right- if you are capable of making your own financial plan, if you enjoy spending hours on internet forums, or if you have or will read a dozen financial books, this course is not for you. That describes most of the posters on this thread and many of the members of this forum. I certainly received my financial education by reading books, free blogs, and hanging out on this forum. I know that method works. I also know there many who are not interested in doing that, but still want to be do-it-yourselfers and would love to have the most important concepts packaged up into a course like this.

It's important to distinguish the hobbyists from those who are do-it-yourselfers but not hobbyists like the folks that check in here once every year or two. You and I are hobbyists. The course isn't for us. But that doesn't mean it isn't for anybody. I assure you the market exists, the market has asked for it repeatedly, and the market appreciates it. A bunch of people have bought it and nobody has returned it yet. (Of course, it hasn't been 7 days since it launched.)

Surprisingly, a lot of people have bought it to take with their less-interested spouse or partner. They're a hobbyist, but their spouse isn't, and it's a good way to get the spouse up to speed.
Agreed.

Here is another way to think about it: it is much cheaper to do your own asset allocation for a three-fund portfolio and managing the glide path over time than purchasing a Vanguard Target Date fund (which uses investor-share funds and thus has a higher ER) - you can cut the annual cost by half if you roll your own and use admiral shares or ETFs. I think most people on this forum do just that, I certainly do. I also know people who have little interest in investing, much less rebalancing and tax optimization; for them the Target Date funds are perfect because even with the added cost, they are much better than the alternatives. I've certainly recommended the TD funds to friends like this.
Not to get too off topic, but I thought this was at least partially debunked- the continuous and automatic fund rebalancing makes up for the slight increase in ER.

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14334
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:43 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:53 pm
they get the same flack as you will get.
I have a different view on taking flack since reading Unbroken, and not sure getting a little criticism on the internet is at all comparable!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WUYPPG/

Just like making money is very American, so is getting some criticism for doing so. What a wonderful country! Do what you want, say what you want. Thank you to all who defend it. And thank you for your feedback. Critical feedback might not be the most fun to hear, but it is the most useful.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

Twood
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:15 am

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Twood » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:12 pm

WCI, I appreciate your professionalism and good humor in the face of this thread.

pkcrafter
Posts: 13743
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:19 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by pkcrafter » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:25 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:39 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:06 pm
p.s. A shout out to the owners of this forum. When I read someone making money of others for personal finance advice I am MORE amazed the folks on this site have stuck to their ethics and don't charge and don't take advertisement money either. Much respect.
Many roads to Dublin. I love the Bogleheads forum (and wiki) and will be forever grateful to its creators, owners, donors, moderators, and participants.

But there is no Bogleheads podcast. No Bogleheads video course. No Bogleheads scholarship. Only three Bogleheads books. No jobs have been created by Bogleheads.
Actually, there is some help. Rick Van Ness has done considerable work in this area. He has videos plus newly developed classes.

Common Sense Investing

https://academy.financinglife.org/p/com ... sting-free

Why Bother With Bonds. $29 Actually a very timely subject based on several recent posts.

https://academy.financinglife.org/p/why ... with-bonds

Finance Your Dreams. Six course bundle. $79

https://academy.financinglife.org/p/finance-your-dreams

Financial Life.org

https://financinglife.org/


Paul
Last edited by pkcrafter on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

User avatar
Rowan Oak
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:11 pm
Location: Yoknapatawpha

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Rowan Oak » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:27 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:43 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:53 pm
they get the same flack as you will get.
I have a different view on taking flack since reading Unbroken, and not sure getting a little criticism on the internet is at all comparable!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WUYPPG/

Just like making money is very American, so is getting some criticism for doing so. What a wonderful country! Do what you want, say what you want. Thank you to all who defend it. And thank you for your feedback. Critical feedback might not be the most fun to hear, but it is the most useful.
Well said. I appreciate your help over the years.
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger

livesoft
Posts: 69586
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by livesoft » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:47 pm

cutterinnj wrote: Not to get too off topic, but I thought this was at least partially debunked- the continuous and automatic fund rebalancing makes up for the slight increase in ER.
Yes, I think that is essentially true, but there are still the taxes which would be a big deal for high income folks and low income folks, too.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

Whakamole
Posts: 1097
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:59 pm

Re: $399 - New Course - Fire your Financial Advisor - By WhiteCoat Investor - Anyone?

Post by Whakamole » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:54 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:47 pm
cutterinnj wrote: Not to get too off topic, but I thought this was at least partially debunked- the continuous and automatic fund rebalancing makes up for the slight increase in ER.
Yes, I think that is essentially true, but there are still the taxes which would be a big deal for high income folks and low income folks, too.
Are you sure? I thought that the recent Vanguard paper said that the time period for rebalancing didn't really matter:

https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/ISGPORE.pdf

"As the figure shows, changing the rebalancing frequency from monthly to quarterly to annually did not meaningfully change the portfolio average equity allocations, average annualized returns, or volatilities."

Of course the costs mainly matter when looking at taxable accounts, the only costs in a tax-advantaged account would be if you were paying transaction fees which can easily be avoided by using the NTF index funds/ETFs that I think all major brokerages are offering.

Locked