Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

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MrPotatoHead
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by MrPotatoHead » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:30 pm

daveydoo wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:24 pm
Huh? Wah? To me, there is a difference between "any pennies" and $5,000. If you think of every financial decision in terms of percent of your net worth, I guess I finally know who shops at Whole Foods :D . Cheers!
I do not get the Whole Foods reference. I would appreciate elaboration.

To the point I was trying to make, the purpose of our group is to mentor aspiring millionaires. What I note about those I term wealthy (those with a net worth > 5 million) is they do not think in terms of it being a penny or a nickle as much as they see it as what lump sum they would need to have in order to generate it. So in the very recent past then they picked up a penny they did not see it as a penny but rather the interest they could earn on a dollar if invested for a year in a CD or a quarter represented the yield on $12.50 invested for a year in the S&P500.

student
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by student » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:42 pm

outbackcountry wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:11 pm
student wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:48 am
ImUrHuckleberry wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:43 am
That's strange. I recently added a bank to Fido and it was done through a small deposit verification process.
My experience with Fido is that for most external major banks, their standard process is for you to logon to your outside account with its website to establish ownership, then you can transfer immediately. If there is an error in this procedure, then they want you to send in the paperwork.
Hmm....I didnt see the option for small deposit or logon to the external bank account. May be I'm not doing it right. I chose the Transfer tab, select the "Add a bank account" link, choose the a/c (brokerage, cash, etc.,), type of external account, enter the routing number, etc., and after confirmation, there will be option to upload bank statement.
I am talking about the procedure listing on the left.

https://www.fidelity.com/customer-servi ... to-add-eft

student
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by student » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:46 pm

ImUrHuckleberry wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:53 am
student wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:48 am
ImUrHuckleberry wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:43 am
That's strange. I recently added a bank to Fido and it was done through a small deposit verification process.
My experience with Fido is that for most external major banks, their standard process is for you to logon to your outside account with its website to establish ownership, then you can transfer immediately. If there is an error in this procedure, then they want you to send in the paperwork.
Hmm. Maybe I'm getting confused with an HSA account at a different place which I also recently linked to a bank account around the same time I linked FIDO to it.
If I remember correctly, Fido has different rules on adding external accounts for electronic transfer when applying to a brokerage account or a cash management account.

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dodecahedron
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by dodecahedron » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:56 pm

Artful Dodger wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:28 pm
I don't remember the exact details, but I transferred around $700,000 to Fidelity about 5 years ago and I think got $1400, so two basis points.
$1400/$700,000 is 0.20%, which is twenty basis points, not two.

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Lancelot
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by Lancelot » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:05 am

I began investing with Fidelity, then moved to VG. Six years ago I moved a modest $20k to Fido for about 20k Delta FF miles. I was really after Fido's ATM rebate Dr card, because I'm usually abroad and want to avoid fees. Investing with Fido again, I've noticed that their ERs are very competitive with VG and, IMHO, their customer service is better.

I'm still with VG but I'm more mercenary now; show me the money :sharebeer
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peterinjapan
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by peterinjapan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:34 am

I *love* Fidelity. They are a more traditional company (Vanguard has a lot od strange things to learn that are unique to Vanguard), have great staff and service, and the Fidelity apps are *dreamy* to use. The one downside is, buying non “free to buy” mutual funds including those from Vanguard is not a good idea, as it costs $75to buy or sell.

Chip
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by Chip » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:52 am

MikeG62 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:00 am
Wonder if Fidelity will pay the bonus only if you transfer the funds into the PAS unit?

That would be an awful outcome.
Last year I helped a friend with some planning and moving her investments from a high cost broker to Fidelity. There it was invested in an extremely low cost 3 fund portfolio. She received a $2500 bonus for moving 1m+. No PAS involved.

But I will say that Fidelity did not offer the bonus until she brought it up (on my prompting).

student
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by student » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:37 am

peterinjapan wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:34 am
I *love* Fidelity. They are a more traditional company (Vanguard has a lot od strange things to learn that are unique to Vanguard), have great staff and service, and the Fidelity apps are *dreamy* to use. The one downside is, buying non “free to buy” mutual funds including those from Vanguard is not a good idea, as it costs $75to buy or sell.
I think this only apply to funds that are not in their networks. I believe there are 3 categories.

1) No Transaction Fee funds.
2) Mutual Fund Network Transaction Fee funds. $49.95 to buy, $0 to sell.
3) Others. $75 buy and sell.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by ruralavalon » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:26 am

munemaker wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:30 am
Rajsx wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:29 pm

Fidelity would be pay $5000 if anyone moves a 5 million Portfolio to Fidelity.

Would you take on this offer ??
No. $5,000 is only 0.1% of $5,000,000. It is negligible. Your portfolio probably moves this much in 30 minutes. It would take a lot more bait than that for me to move.
It's 99 miles to the nearest Fidelity office, the market could easily move 10 or 20 times that amount in the time it takes to drive there.

Using a Fidelity office would be a waste of my time.
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midareff
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by midareff » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:38 am

Having had to change custodians a few times during the retirement process, I fully enjoy the hassle free life I have now with most everything financial fully automated and the need for paper checks all but vanished.

vested1
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by vested1 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:52 am

Two opposing viewpoints from four members:
Taylor Larimore wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:53 pm
Bogleheads:

Fidelity and nearly all other mutual fund companies (except Vanguard) serve two masters: Their investors and their stockholders. Who is likely to come first?

I will continue to keep all my securities with Vanguard (since 1986).

Best wishes.
Taylor
sport wrote:I am also concerned that if/when I become older and not mentally sharp, that Fidelity would be able to talk me into some of their expensive options. Similarly, I don't know if my heirs will be sharp enough to avoid the Fidelity solicitations. I am confident that I do not need to worry about this at Vanguard. They don't have any expensive products to sell me. Their employees also do not work on commission, so they have no incentive to lead me, or my heirs, astray. In short, I trust Vanguard and I do not trust Fidelity. As one gets older, these concerns become more important.
MrPotatoHead wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:49 pm
In reviewing this, and analogous threads is appears, for some, there is not only a fiscal investment in in the financial services firm they use but an emotional investment as well.
AZAttorney11 wrote:If we are using expense ratios to determine which companies are putting their customers first, Fidelity and Schwab both have index funds that beat Vanguard in an apples to apples comparison. I do not find the ownership structure of Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab relevant to my investment decisions. I evaluate products individually and then make a choice. And Fidelity and Schwab have products that are better for their customers than what Vanguard currently offers.
I was offered a retention bonus in the .2% range to stay with Fidelity after initiating a move to Vanguard. This, after being an unwitting victim of Fido PAS for 5 years, so put me firmly in the camp of the first two members at the top of this post. The telling moment for me was when my two advisors at Fido were speechless when I asked them detailed questions about how I was taken advantage of, and why they personally did so. They were speechless because they had no good answers. Their retention bonus was a fraction of what they had bled from my portfolio in that five year learning curve.

Having led an ethical life to the best of my ability, I tend to reward ethics in others, even at a slight disadvantage to myself. One of the ways we can reward outstanding ethics in others is with our wallets. There may come a time when doing business with Vanguard becomes too cumbersome, but for this self-directed investor, that time has not yet arrived. I freely admit that holding a grudge is emotional; an unavoidable consequence of being human.

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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by Horsefly » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:18 am

I deposited my ~$1M lump sum from work when I retired in 2013, and Fidelity gave me $1500. Maybe the bonus they give you has changed over time.

I had money at both Fidelity and Vanguard for many years. I found Vanguard's web page to be too much of a pain. Everything is now at Fidelity, and I think in 20 or so years a VP has contacted me once to see if I wanted any professional help from them. I said no, and since then it appears that each new VP is handed down the message to not bug me. I've never felt like I paid too much for anything with Fidelity, and as others have said they have just awesome customer service reps. Smart, prompt, and courteous.

At this point I have nothing to move to Fidelity, but even if there was a great deal somewhere else I can't imagine putting up with the disruption to move money somewhere else.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:40 am

vested1 wrote:Having led an ethical life to the best of my ability, I tend to reward ethics in others, even at a slight disadvantage to myself. One of the ways we can reward outstanding ethics in others is with our wallets. There may come a time when doing business with Vanguard becomes too cumbersome, but for this self-directed investor, that time has not yet arrived. I freely admit that holding a grudge is emotional; an unavoidable consequence of being human.
+1 We have to have a 401k (and a single share of BRK.A) at Fido. Everything else is at Vanguard. Tbh, maybe I’ve become accustomed to it, but I actually prefer the Vanguard web site. YMMV.

To the extent possible, I vote with my wallet.

PatrickA5
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by PatrickA5 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:30 pm

We currently have almost all of our retirement at VG. We've had accounts at Fidelity and Schwab, but last year decided to consolidate everything in order to simplify our finances.

I liked Fidelity and Schwab's website better, but have gotten so used to VGs that I can do everything easily. I've had good and bad customer service at both Fido and VG. I remember arguing with a couple of Fido reps a few years back about how it's possible to have a "basis" in a Traditional IRA (i.e. non deductible contributions). Neither had a clue and weren't about to admit they were wrong and were borderline rude. I've also had problems with VG reps not knowing what they were talking about. It's frustrating, but in the end, we're happy with VG.

I'm still on the fence on whether we'll stay at VG. With me doing everything, it's easy to stay put. But, when I'm gone I'm not sure it wouldn't be a good idea to have a physical office for my DW to go to (i.e. Fido or Schwab).

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TinkerPDX
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by TinkerPDX » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:02 pm

daveydoo wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:09 pm
TinkerPDX wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:27 am

Yes, I would absolutely move my portfolio *now* for $5,000 - but that offer isn't on the table. Sure I'd be the same person, but the marginal benefit to my quality of life of $5,000 would be approximately zero, whereas it would be substantial now. And while $5,000 represents a little less than two weeks of wages now, it would represent a few days or a week of passive return with a $5M portfolio.
I'm guessing there are a lot of five-millionaires laughing right now. Despite your vision of rich folks lighting cigars with rolled-up $100 bills, $5000 still matters to almost anyone. Whether you move an account is one thing, but to imply that $5000 means nothing to someone worth $5 million is just plain nutty.
That's not not my vision, and that's not what I'm implying at all. I'm saying that the marginal value of money is diminishing as one has more (subjective but I'll bet you $5k that most $5M'aires would agree), and the marginal cost of acquiring money also diminishes as one has more of it (a mathematical fact), both of which counsel in favor of being less inclined to endure a given inconvenience for the sake of some fixed sum the more money one has.

raisinsaregrapes
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by raisinsaregrapes » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:24 pm

"I'll do it, but only after you explain to me how you are going to f*c% me."

From the book "The Big Short"

Agggm
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by Agggm » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:02 pm

Rajsx wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:29 pm
I went in to the Fidelity Center in our city to meet with their Financial Planner.
As I do most of the Portfolio decisions myself I wanted another set of eyes to look over my Vanguard investments for an objective(??) opinion. I have little money still left with Fidelity apart from a 529 . We transferred all our investments(in kind) to Vanguard about 11 years back.

Anyway, he reaffirmed my present asset allocation & answered a few other questions about when to start the SS payments....etc...., suggested active management for the Bond & International Mutual Funds with a pitch for the Fidelity, their CDs Program all of which I fully expected going in.

And then this bait ....Fidelity would be pay $5000 if anyone moves a 5 million Portfolio to Fidelity & I left the meeting with a few new ideas to ponder but nothing earth shaking .

I am comfortable with Vanguard and am not going anywhere else but I did not expect that offer of $5 grand. I do not know other conditions of this offer which I am sure there are.

Would you take on this offer ??
Sure. Free 💰

johnra
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by johnra » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:53 am

I am concerned about how big Vanguard has grown in a short amount of time--bigger is not better, I worry about their size, and by comparison, Fidelity is much smaller (and very tightly managed). In addition, while in princicple I like Vanguard's ideology, in fact, ironically, Fidelity is incentivized in favor of the customer. Finally, parking your assets is not a casual decision and I would not want them transferred around the internet without a lot of thought

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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by daveydoo » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:02 am

MrPotatoHead wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:48 pm

I know several people with > 5 Million net worth. After our monthly meeting we usually run over to Aldi to pickup a few things. Never once do they fail to pick up any pennies, nickles, dimes on the ground and will always return any unattended carts they see for the 25 cent return.
You were being serious -- I'm sorry! This behavior would not surprise me at all.
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by radiowave » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:09 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:26 am

It's 99 miles to the nearest Fidelity office, the market could easily move 10 or 20 times that amount in the time it takes to drive there.

Using a Fidelity office would be a waste of my time.
Fidelity has a courier service to move documents and checks directly to corporate office for servicing. Well worth the effort if it is a reasonable drive.
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NYCguy
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by NYCguy » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:27 pm

vested1 wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:52 am
Two opposing viewpoints from four members:
Taylor Larimore wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:53 pm
Bogleheads:

Fidelity and nearly all other mutual fund companies (except Vanguard) serve two masters: Their investors and their stockholders. Who is likely to come first?

I will continue to keep all my securities with Vanguard (since 1986).

Best wishes.
Taylor
sport wrote:I am also concerned that if/when I become older and not mentally sharp, that Fidelity would be able to talk me into some of their expensive options. Similarly, I don't know if my heirs will be sharp enough to avoid the Fidelity solicitations. I am confident that I do not need to worry about this at Vanguard. They don't have any expensive products to sell me. Their employees also do not work on commission, so they have no incentive to lead me, or my heirs, astray. In short, I trust Vanguard and I do not trust Fidelity. As one gets older, these concerns become more important.
MrPotatoHead wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:49 pm
In reviewing this, and analogous threads is appears, for some, there is not only a fiscal investment in in the financial services firm they use but an emotional investment as well.
AZAttorney11 wrote:If we are using expense ratios to determine which companies are putting their customers first, Fidelity and Schwab both have index funds that beat Vanguard in an apples to apples comparison. I do not find the ownership structure of Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab relevant to my investment decisions. I evaluate products individually and then make a choice. And Fidelity and Schwab have products that are better for their customers than what Vanguard currently offers.
I was offered a retention bonus in the .2% range to stay with Fidelity after initiating a move to Vanguard. This, after being an unwitting victim of Fido PAS for 5 years, so put me firmly in the camp of the first two members at the top of this post. The telling moment for me was when my two advisors at Fido were speechless when I asked them detailed questions about how I was taken advantage of, and why they personally did so. They were speechless because they had no good answers. Their retention bonus was a fraction of what they had bled from my portfolio in that five year learning curve.

Having led an ethical life to the best of my ability, I tend to reward ethics in others, even at a slight disadvantage to myself. One of the ways we can reward outstanding ethics in others is with our wallets. There may come a time when doing business with Vanguard becomes too cumbersome, but for this self-directed investor, that time has not yet arrived. I freely admit that holding a grudge is emotional; an unavoidable consequence of being human.
Nice summary. This thread is nutty to me.

I have 7 figure portfolios at both firms, Fidelity due to company plans. One day I will consolidate, highly likely with Vanguard.

Choosing a financial institution to me is a very important long term decision, up there with spouses, buying a home, kids schools etc. A $5,000 bonus would not influence my decision.

While I have respect for Jack Bogle and Vanguard’s history, I would not hesitate to leave them in a New York minute if I didn’t think they were the best long term choice for me. My decision is not emotionally based.

My experience is that both Fido and Vanguard have excellent technology and customer service. I don’t know where the grump toward Vanguard is coming from.

The ONLY reason Fido, Blackrock and others have become competitive is Vanguard. I am confident they will return to trying to pick investors pockets, given the opportunity.

In my view, Vanguard’s ownership structure is inherently superior and they take fewer risks with my money when it comes to security lending and other fund operations. At this stage of fund history, expense ratios are less relevant because they are going close to zero.

Concerns about Vanguard’s growth are unfounded, in my view. Size in this business is not inherently bad and provides many advantages.

There are aspects of Fido that are quite good, but I doubt they will be my choice when I consolidate accounts.

Whatever I do, it will not be because someone dangles a bonus in front of me.
If your out-go is greater than your income, your upkeep will be your DOWNFALL.

ClaycordJCA
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by ClaycordJCA » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:32 pm

[/quote]I was offered a retention bonus in the .2% range to stay with Fidelity after initiating a move to Vanguard. This, after being an unwitting victim of Fido PAS for 5 years, so put me firmly in the camp of the first two members at the top of this post. The telling moment for me was when my two advisors at Fido were speechless when I asked them detailed questions about how I was taken advantage of, and why they personally did so. They were speechless because they had no good answers. Their retention bonus was a fraction of what they had bled from my portfolio in that five year learning curve.

Having led an ethical life to the best of my ability, I tend to reward ethics in others, even at a slight disadvantage to myself. One of the ways we can reward outstanding ethics in others is with our wallets. There may come a time when doing business with Vanguard becomes too cumbersome, but for this self-directed investor, that time has not yet arrived. I freely admit that holding a grudge is emotional; an unavoidable consequence of being human.
[/quote]

I am not sure what you mean by being an “unwitting victim” of the Fido PAS or how Fido has been “unethical.” The FIDO fee structure is very easy to find - it took me less than a minute to do so when searching by Google. Vanguard’s PAS product has much lower fees than Fido’s and I will certainly switch to Vanguard if we ultimately decide to utilize PAS services. But if Fido’s fees were clearly disclosed, I don’t think you can say the company acted unethically because you didn’t know about or choose an alternative that you now find more to your liking. Similarly, I used Fidelity actively-managed funds for years and have now switched to a virtually all indexed portfolio - I don’t blame Fidelity for my past investment choices.

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Wildebeest
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by Wildebeest » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:16 pm

Yes and I did and I would like to say:

"Fidelity bring on the bait. I will happily bite. Thank you."

I will ride it every year till they do not offer it anymore.

I am one of those people who picks up pennies in front of steamrollers and hope I am safe because "I am buy and hold" but can not resist free money . So far I have not been run over (yet). And I consider $ 5000 real money and not pennies (I do pick up real pennies if I see them).
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

NYCguy
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by NYCguy » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:33 pm

Wildebeest wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:16 pm
Yes and I did and I would like to say:

"Fidelity bring on the bait. I will happily bite. Thank you."

I will ride it every year till they do not offer it anymore.

I am one of those people who picks up pennies in front of steamrollers and hope I am safe because "I am buy and hold" but can not resist free money . So far I have not been run over (yet). And I consider $ 5000 real money and not pennies (I do pick up real pennies if I see them).
Are they paying you $5000 each year to stay?
If your out-go is greater than your income, your upkeep will be your DOWNFALL.

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Wildebeest
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by Wildebeest » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:44 pm

I am uncomfortable to ask Fidelity if they will offer me money to stay, so I move it out and ask in one year if they will offer us $ 2500 for each account to move it back. So it is every other year.
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

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sometimesinvestor
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by sometimesinvestor » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:56 pm

It's A good idea to keep an eye on the situation I would not do it now but better offers are likely to be available at some point in the future

vested1
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Re: Will you take this Fidelity bait ?

Post by vested1 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:58 am

vested1 wrote: I was offered a retention bonus in the .2% range to stay with Fidelity after initiating a move to Vanguard. This, after being an unwitting victim of Fido PAS for 5 years, so put me firmly in the camp of the first two members at the top of this post. The telling moment for me was when my two advisors at Fido were speechless when I asked them detailed questions about how I was taken advantage of, and why they personally did so. They were speechless because they had no good answers. Their retention bonus was a fraction of what they had bled from my portfolio in that five year learning curve.

Having led an ethical life to the best of my ability, I tend to reward ethics in others, even at a slight disadvantage to myself. One of the ways we can reward outstanding ethics in others is with our wallets. There may come a time when doing business with Vanguard becomes too cumbersome, but for this self-directed investor, that time has not yet arrived. I freely admit that holding a grudge is emotional; an unavoidable consequence of being human.
ClaycordJCA wrote: am not sure what you mean by being an “unwitting victim” of the Fido PAS or how Fido has been “unethical.” The FIDO fee structure is very easy to find - it took me less than a minute to do so when searching by Google. Vanguard’s PAS product has much lower fees than Fido’s and I will certainly switch to Vanguard if we ultimately decide to utilize PAS services. But if Fido’s fees were clearly disclosed, I don’t think you can say the company acted unethically because you didn’t know about or choose an alternative that you now find more to your liking. Similarly, I used Fidelity actively-managed funds for years and have now switched to a virtually all indexed portfolio - I don’t blame Fidelity for my past investment choices.
I've gone into it in other threads, but yes, they did take advantage of me, sucking about 20k a year out of my PAS account for 5 years as well as talking me into a low interest fixed deferred annuity, locking up 200k for 5 years at the end of my accumulation phase, which garnered a 6% commission to my advisor. I now pay .08% combined fees at vanguard, around $800 a year.

I don't believe that having an unknowledgeable client gives anyone the permission to fleece them. If it wasn't for this site and the suggested reading offered here I may have still been paying their ridiculous fees for 20 high priced funds which averaged about 1.3% ER with sub-standard performance that never met benchmarks during a raging bull market.

By your logic (in red) it is acceptable to charge unwitting customers whatever the market will bear until they find out on their own how little they are getting for their money, and how high fees negatively affect portfolio growth.

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