2nd million is easier!

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
bayview
Posts: 2321
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:05 pm
Location: WNC

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by bayview »

Glad to hear that the second mill goes so much more easily. :beer

I have to say that the first half-million is quite a schlep. :(
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri
NYCguy
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by NYCguy »

wrongfunds wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:32 pm Since you opened up with the following quote
Frankly, I do not trust the financial services industry and I think everyone needs to be well educated financially.
what value do you add financially which allows you to earn $2.9M per year? You have every right to not trust the industry if you think they are wasting money including on your own salary :-)

No seriously, how does financial industry internally justify their paychecks? I understand bigger paychecks for people who increase the total output of the world but I am having hard time how financial industry makes the total pie bigger.
You and others have raised fair and complex questions and I could write a book on the topic. As a high-level starting point I would point to a complex economy and supply and demand.

Both the US economy and the world economy is so much more complex than it was 20 or 30 years ago. My view is our economy simply could not exist in its current form without the complex finance. Many of us love Vanguard and the significant market returns it provides us on efficient basis. The operation of Vanguard and the returns we enjoy I do not believe would exist without complex finance. We all may hold a romantic view of the simpler time but I do not believe return to a simpler world provide a better quality of life for the whole. This is but one small example I am using for illustrative purposes.

My business is very much driven by supplying and demand. We do not justify salaries: we need to pay what the market demands. I am one of several owners of my business and we have over a thousand employees. My income is my share of the profits. Several of my co-owners take multiples of what I earn. The majority of our employees earn six figure incomes and several dozen earn seven-figure incomes, including IT and accounting professionals. If we don’t pay appropriately we lose talented people to our competition. We face this literally every day.

Likewise our business competes with 20 or so other businesses and another 200 that like to think they compete with us to bring in sophisticated customers. The magnitude of our customers problems range in the tens of millions to tens of billions of dollars. Our fees are often a rounding error relative to the size of the problems.

I hold doctors, lawyers, teachers, first responders and artists in the highest regard and for whatever reason our world does not compensate those people as they should be compensated. I bused tables on the graveyard shift and literally dug ditches during college so I have some perspective of what is hard work. Every day I count my good fortune for those jobs being in my past.
If your out-go is greater than your income, your upkeep will be your DOWNFALL.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3754
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by BrandonBogle »

NYCguy wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:23 pm
wrongfunds wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:32 pm Since you opened up with the following quote
Frankly, I do not trust the financial services industry and I think everyone needs to be well educated financially.
what value do you add financially which allows you to earn $2.9M per year? You have every right to not trust the industry if you think they are wasting money including on your own salary :-)

No seriously, how does financial industry internally justify their paychecks? I understand bigger paychecks for people who increase the total output of the world but I am having hard time how financial industry makes the total pie bigger.
<snip>
My business is very much driven by supplying and demand. We do not justify salaries: we need to pay what the market demands. I am one of several owners of my business and we have over a thousand employees. My income is my share of the profits. Several of my co-owners take multiples of what I earn. The majority of our employees earn six figure incomes and several dozen earn seven-figure incomes, including IT and accounting professionals. If we don’t pay appropriately we lose talented people to our competition. We face this literally every day.

<snip>

I hold doctors, lawyers, teachers, first responders and artists in the highest regard and for whatever reason our world does not compensate those people as they should be compensated. I bused tables on the graveyard shift and literally dug ditches during college so I have some perspective of what is hard work. Every day I count my good fortune for those jobs being in my past.
To the posters who, from reading an online message appear to be looking down on NYCguy (maybe I'm misreading that), I am a bit surprised. Here is an individual who is doing very well and NONE of his posts have appeared smug or condescending to others. Instead, he has been very open about what he makes and is enjoying the benefits of his work to get there vs. feeling entitled about it. But rather than learn from him, or smile as he passes by and focus on others we feel are more appropriate models for us to follow, some of the posts (as I read them) seem to really have some venom towards him. And for that, I am sad to read that here on Bogleheads.

NYCguy, I thank you for continuing to post regardless.
User avatar
sergeant
Posts: 1706
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: The Golden State

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by sergeant »

I agree. NYC guy seems like a genuine person and I appreciate his posts. I also appreciate his shout out to first responders.
AA- 20+ Years of Expenses Fixed Income/The remainder in Equities.
Topic Author
bubbadog
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:17 pm
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by bubbadog »

sergeant wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:50 pm I agree. NYC guy seems like a genuine person and I appreciate his posts. I also appreciate his shout out to first responders.
I appreciate his contributions to this thread as well. I also appreciate him and his partners for providing 1,000 good paying jobs!
User avatar
Portfolio7
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:53 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by Portfolio7 »

bayview wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:24 pm Glad to hear that the second mill goes so much more easily. :beer

I have to say that the first half-million is quite a schlep. :(
For sure. Took us 11 years to get to $250K of retirement savings. Student loans & DW staying at home with the kids slowed things down for sure, and the dot.com crash stalled our savings for three years, but we kept throwing $ at the 401(k)s. The good news: it was only about 6 additional years to double it to $500K (even with 2008). Still, it was a 17 year slog for us to reach $500K.

It was another 6 years to double it again to over $1M now. With 10-15 years to retirement, I hope we can double it twice more, but we'll take what the market gives. Growth will come from returns more than from contributions, and compared to many of the folks on this board it sure feels like we've saved less and have higher expenses - but what matters most is hitting our goals.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" - Benjamin Franklin
staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by staythecourse »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:33 pm

To the posters who, from reading an online message appear to be looking down on NYCguy (maybe I'm misreading that), I am a bit surprised. Here is an individual who is doing very well and NONE of his posts have appeared smug or condescending to others. Instead, he has been very open about what he makes and is enjoying the benefits of his work to get there vs. feeling entitled about it. But rather than learn from him, or smile as he passes by and focus on others we feel are more appropriate models for us to follow, some of the posts (as I read them) seem to really have some venom towards him. And for that, I am sad to read that here on Bogleheads.

NYCguy, I thank you for continuing to post regardless.
Agreed. It is MUCH easier to say you would be this or that if you made as much as this poster or at his net worth, but it is different then actually doing it when you have that much.

Thanks for your contributions. The great part of this forum is it is a community and like any it improves with how diverse the group of people are that are contributing.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 15985
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by HomerJ »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:33 pm To the posters who, from reading an online message appear to be looking down on NYCguy (maybe I'm misreading that), I am a bit surprised. Here is an individual who is doing very well and NONE of his posts have appeared smug or condescending to others. Instead, he has been very open about what he makes and is enjoying the benefits of his work to get there vs. feeling entitled about it. But rather than learn from him, or smile as he passes by and focus on others we feel are more appropriate models for us to follow, some of the posts (as I read them) seem to really have some venom towards him. And for that, I am sad to read that here on Bogleheads.
No venom at all...

I'm very sad that people read my remarks that way. I'm quite impressed with NYCguy, especially from his subsequent posts, but even my original reply offered sincere congratulations on his success.

My point was that his salary is so far beyond the average, that it's difficult for the average person to be inspired by his savings story. You can be inspired by his other attributes, and his career success.

But it's not that hard to save money when you've made over a million dollars a year for the past 12 years.

Since I will never make that kind of money, his experience doesn't apply to me. That's all I meant.

My apologies if I gave offense.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3754
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by BrandonBogle »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:40 pm No venom at all...

I'm very sad that people read my remarks that way. I'm quite impressed with NYCguy, especially from his subsequent posts, but even my original reply offered sincere congratulations on his success.

My point was that his salary is so far beyond the average, that it's difficult for the average person to be inspired by his savings story. You can be inspired by his other attributes, and his career success.

But it's not that hard to save money when you've made over a million dollars a year for the past 12 years.

Since I will never make that kind of money, his experience doesn't apply to me. That's all I meant.

My apologies if I gave offense.
I am glad I misread your remarks! No offense taken. :)

While I quoted you, yours was not the only one that made me feel that way. Glad we as a community haven't jumped to negativity. :sharebeer
investingdad
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by investingdad »

Yes, it's easier.

First million at 39, second by 43. This year, 44, we added 550k.

I don't think this rate is sustainable.
sambb
Posts: 2973
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:31 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by sambb »

I didnt like the venom that went to high income people. What difference does it make? The top 1% of income worldwide is something like 35k. So if you make more than that, you are in the top 1%. Not much difference between in the world to making 100,000 and making 2.9M worldwide - you can afford alot more than the other 99% in the world. As far as the OP, yes 2nd mil is easier, but it fluctautes more in a down market. In a 60/40 portfolio, the potential downside could be 30% to that amount so 2M can become 1.3M in a big down market.
NYCguy
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by NYCguy »

A heart felt thank you to all of you who had encurraging things to say about my posts. My two motivations for participating on this forum are to learn from others, which I do often, and to try and give back to younger investors, which I hope to do here and elsewhere in life.

My observation is that high earners, young and old, are as susceptible as anyone else to making poor financial decisions. It is part of the reason why my business provides financial education to our employees and why I personally engage with people working directly with me. I frequently give away copies of John Bogle’s books.

Further, I did not start out as an exceptionally high earner by New York City standards. I believe I benefited from forming good financial habits and a solid investment foundation from which to grow. Undoubtedly there are some young investors here who will be pleasantly surprised over their careers and hopefully they can benefit from a solid foundation and good financial habits.

I remember feeling that the first $20,000 saved was a real accomplishment, and it was.

I did detect some uncharacteristic snark in some responses, but that’s ok, and I appreciate people clarify their intentions.

Merry Christmas to all celebrating.
If your out-go is greater than your income, your upkeep will be your DOWNFALL.
staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by staythecourse »

NYCguy wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:41 pm I frequently give away copies of John Bogle’s books.
I hope someone can get this message over to Mr. Bogle. I am sure he would be quite proud his message has not only reached a senior person in the finance community, but has been received and is getting to the folks below him. I am sure this would make his Christmas/ New Years holidays!

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
User avatar
Earl Lemongrab
Posts: 7270
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:14 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by Earl Lemongrab »

I got serious about investing in 2007. At that time, I had about 650k in investments and cash. Of course, that was a "fun" time to start. Anyway, I officially hit 1mill in November of 2012. That's just investments not home equity or anything. I haven't quite hit the second level, but it's close now at about 1.9. Nothing magic, just sticking with the plan.
Finridge
Posts: 802
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by Finridge »

NYCguy wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:23 pm
wrongfunds wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:32 pm Since you opened up with the following quote
Frankly, I do not trust the financial services industry and I think everyone needs to be well educated financially.
what value do you add financially which allows you to earn $2.9M per year? You have every right to not trust the industry if you think they are wasting money including on your own salary :-)

No seriously, how does financial industry internally justify their paychecks? I understand bigger paychecks for people who increase the total output of the world but I am having hard time how financial industry makes the total pie bigger.
You and others have raised fair and complex questions and I could write a book on the topic. As a high-level starting point I would point to a complex economy and supply and demand.

Both the US economy and the world economy is so much more complex than it was 20 or 30 years ago. My view is our economy simply could not exist in its current form without the complex finance. Many of us love Vanguard and the significant market returns it provides us on efficient basis. The operation of Vanguard and the returns we enjoy I do not believe would exist without complex finance. We all may hold a romantic view of the simpler time but I do not believe return to a simpler world provide a better quality of life for the whole. This is but one small example I am using for illustrative purposes.

My business is very much driven by supplying and demand. We do not justify salaries: we need to pay what the market demands. I am one of several owners of my business and we have over a thousand employees. My income is my share of the profits. Several of my co-owners take multiples of what I earn. The majority of our employees earn six figure incomes and several dozen earn seven-figure incomes, including IT and accounting professionals. If we don’t pay appropriately we lose talented people to our competition. We face this literally every day.

Likewise our business competes with 20 or so other businesses and another 200 that like to think they compete with us to bring in sophisticated customers. The magnitude of our customers problems range in the tens of millions to tens of billions of dollars. Our fees are often a rounding error relative to the size of the problems.

I hold doctors, lawyers, teachers, first responders and artists in the highest regard and for whatever reason our world does not compensate those people as they should be compensated. I bused tables on the graveyard shift and literally dug ditches during college so I have some perspective of what is hard work. Every day I count my good fortune for those jobs being in my past.
Good post. +1
investingdad
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by investingdad »

I missed the conversation above when I first replied.

My view is pretty simple, my wife and I are very fortunate to be where we are financially and I have no complaints. I'm not bothered nor distressed by the handful of folks doing much better than us when we're already doing as well as we are.
timmy
Posts: 725
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:57 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by timmy »

A good story!

To the naysayers, I think the point is about process and less about outcome. Spend less than you earn, invest, avoid stupid decisions, etc. and most people will come out okay. There will be plenty of failure due to bad luck. Life happens. On the flip side, if you don't follow good practices, you are almost guaranteed to fail. So tilt the odds in your favor and stop stressing.
Topic Author
bubbadog
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:17 pm
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by bubbadog »

investingdad wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:02 am I missed the conversation above when I first replied.

My view is pretty simple, my wife and I are very fortunate to be where we are financially and I have no complaints. I'm not bothered nor distressed by the handful of folks doing much better than us when we're already doing as well as we are.
Dilly Dilly! :sharebeer
Bacchus01
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by Bacchus01 »

It’s shocking to me that a forum that is all about building wealth shames a person who has built considerable wealth through apparent hard work, good timing, and yes, Bogleheads philosophies. Some people need to check themselves at the door.
timmy
Posts: 725
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:57 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by timmy »

Bacchus01 wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:29 pm It’s shocking to me that a forum that is all about building wealth shames a person who has built considerable wealth through apparent hard work, good timing, and yes, Bogleheads philosophies. Some people need to check themselves at the door.
Contrarians, the whole lot of them :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
dewey
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:42 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by dewey »

My portfolio is at 1,700,000.00. My wife's is separate. But I'm now drawing from it at a rate of 2.9% a year roughly, starting in 2018. I'm 68. Are there other retirees with no future wage earnings whose portfolio keeps pushing their net worth higher? That's the only way I'll break the $2 threshold.
“The only freedom that is of enduring importance is freedom of intelligence…” John Dewey
JohnDoh
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:28 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by JohnDoh »

Benjamin Franklin wrote:My Business was now continually augmenting, and my Circumstances growing daily easier, my Newspaper having become very
profitable, as being for a time almost the only one in this and the neighbouring Provinces. --- I experienc'd too the Truth of the Observation, that after getting the first hundred Pound, it is more easy to get the second: Money itself being of a prolific Nature [...].
--- Autobiography (Oxford World's Classics, p. 112, emphasis original)
:moneybag :moneybag :moneybag
ryman554
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by ryman554 »

investingdad wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:15 pm Yes, it's easier.

First million at 39, second by 43. This year, 44, we added 550k.

I don't think this rate is sustainable.
~20% * 2M = 400k + savings, I assume.

Now, let's go look a a chart of expected returns of the S&P 500.

Sustainable? No. Within the norm of the S&P returns? Sure.

Keep on adding that 150k and you'll be fine!
User avatar
JasonF
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:12 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by JasonF »

Congratulations! Another reason why the second million and beyond gets easier is that one pays tuition along the way to that first milestone. Those who learn from mistakes and don't repeat them find themselves in the best possible position to accelerate wealth accumulation.
adasop
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by adasop »

NYCguy wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:41 pm A heart felt thank you to all of you who had encurraging things to say about my posts. My two motivations for participating on this forum are to learn from others, which I do often, and to try and give back to younger investors, which I hope to do here and elsewhere in life.

My observation is that high earners, young and old, are as susceptible as anyone else to making poor financial decisions. It is part of the reason why my business provides financial education to our employees and why I personally engage with people working directly with me. I frequently give away copies of John Bogle’s books.

Further, I did not start out as an exceptionally high earner by New York City standards. I believe I benefited from forming good financial habits and a solid investment foundation from which to grow. Undoubtedly there are some young investors here who will be pleasantly surprised over their careers and hopefully they can benefit from a solid foundation and good financial habits.

I remember feeling that the first $20,000 saved was a real accomplishment, and it was.

I did detect some uncharacteristic snark in some responses, but that’s ok, and I appreciate people clarify their intentions.

Merry Christmas to all celebrating.
So inspired by your posts. Do you have any career advice for a young person entering college in few years.
worthit
Posts: 350
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:10 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by worthit »

staythecourse wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:42 pm
NYCguy wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:51 pm I try to learn from everyone. Not so humble brag, I had dinner with four billionaire friends earlier this week. My financial success pales in comparison and is totally a relevant to our friendship. I learn from each of them. Later this week I’m having dinner with two friends who are public school teachers and raising families in New York City. I learn from them too.
This is how you become successful. When folks stop trying to learn from those around them no matter where they are in life is when you stop improving. I give some serious kudos for someone with this level of income on a board like this where he is likely the top 1-2 posters income and net worth (at his age).

I can say if I had that level of income I am pretty sure I would have blown MUCH more then you have. It is much easier to be simple when you don't have that level of income and opportunity to blow it.

Good luck.
+1 NYCguy, you are truly an inspiration.

The part that stands out and one that I try to follow as well is the "continual learning" from anyone and everyone around you. Big or small, poor or rich, educated or uneducated whoever they are, I try to see things in their perspective so may be, may be, in the process I can learn something from them. I just learnt something today from you. So thanks for that.
tesuzuki2002
Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:40 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by tesuzuki2002 »

bubbadog wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:44 pm I am 51 years old and it took me until age 47 to accumulate over 1 million in my investment accounts. It only took an additional 46 months to top 2 million in my accounts which I did today. I have always heard the saying about how the 2nd million is a lot easier.

I have a simple 3 fund portfolio (65/35 stocks/bonds)
Thanks for sharing!! I am a few years younger, BUT I achieved the $1 million milestone just 2 years ago and this month I have jumped up over $1.5M so it sounds like I am right on track to be there in another 22 ish Months!!! I assume the next $0.5 Million will happen in less than 24 months.

I have not yet adopted the 3 fund portfolio, but keep narrowing it down. I did make a decision earlier this year during the covid hit to reduce my bond allocation to 0%. I had been contemplating this for a while and when equities took a bit of a dive I reallocated my bonds in that direction. I'm good with it and still holding that allocation.

I learn a lot hear and looking forward to watching my own progress.

cheers!
alexL
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:32 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by alexL »

ryman554 wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:45 pm
bubbadog wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:02 pm My employment income is not that high. It has been around 250-260k over the last 4 years.
Sorry to say, but your employment income is VERY high.

Even still, many folks with that income do not save 70k+ a year. That takes fortitude. Great job.
I saved 100k last year, spent 90k, after tax income 190k. Living in a small house for the past 9 years helps a lot.
manatee2005
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:17 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by manatee2005 »

bampf wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:19 am These kinds of threads are important. (At least to me). I am doing pretty well (exceedingly well compared to most segments of the population). However, I read something like this and it makes me think about my plan, and my trajectory. It helps reaffirm my goals and my actions as I approach retirement. Well done OP. For me it isn't about the score, it is about the ability to make any choice I want (within reason). Thanks for all the commentary out there folks. It really really matters.
Same here. Not having to fear job loss is much better than spending that money on stuff.
manatee2005
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:17 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by manatee2005 »

JasonF wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:24 pm Congratulations! Another reason why the second million and beyond gets easier is that one pays tuition along the way to that first milestone. Those who learn from mistakes and don't repeat them find themselves in the best possible position to accelerate wealth accumulation.
Yup, oh boy did I ever make mistakes on that first one.
manatee2005
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:17 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by manatee2005 »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:59 pm
snowox wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:36 pmI gotta disagree. I think you can learn just as much from a person making 2.9 million a year as a person making 29k a year. And there examples in different ways. Have totally different obstacles. Yes, I would rather be the person with the 2.9 million earnings but "They got there" , thats not a starting salary.
Oh sure, you can certainly learn a lot from them. But not about how to save $2 million. :)

It's like Steve Martin's bit, "How to become a millionaire"

Step #1 - "First, get a million dollars".
How to become a millionaire?
Start with a billion dollars
gips
Posts: 755
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 5:42 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by gips »

i’m hoping my 2nd billion will be a lot easier because i’m having a heck of a time getting to my first!

like nycguy i was co-owner of a nyc fin svcs startup. providing a great living, work culture and access to industry leading projects inspired our employees which in turn helped make us successful. It’s a cliche, but it was truly win-win. when we sold the company many of our employees were able to pay off their houses.
17outs
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:03 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by 17outs »

Interested where the OP or others are now. The last 3 years have been good to them. Status updates? :-)
Topic Author
bubbadog
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:17 pm
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by bubbadog »

17outs wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:14 am Interested where the OP or others are now. The last 3 years have been good to them. Status updates? :-)
Since you asked, I am now at $3,100,000 in my 65/35 3 fund portfolio.

I am 54 years old. I have continued to contribute about $90,000/year to my taxable and tax deferred accounts combined.

I had almost forgotten about this over 3 year old thread.

It looks like the next million took about three years.

I would love to get an update from NYCguy.

Best wishes to all of the Bogleheads community!
User avatar
MrBobcat
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:19 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by MrBobcat »

bubbadog wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:40 am
17outs wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:14 am Interested where the OP or others are now. The last 3 years have been good to them. Status updates? :-)
Since you asked, I am now at $3,100,000 in my 65/35 3 fund portfolio.

I am 54 years old. I have continued to contribute about $90,000/year to my taxable and tax deferred accounts combined.

I had almost forgotten about this over 3 year old thread.

It looks like the next million took about three years.

I would love to get an update from NYCguy.

Best wishes to all of the Bogleheads community!
Heck this thread and your story is an inspiration for me. We should hit our first $1m sometime in the next year (we're 54/55) and are shooting to retire when we're 62/63 hoping to have $1.8, it looks doable as we're now putting +/- $90k/year into our accounts. I've already been shocked at the increasing pace going up the $100k ladder.
statefan03
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:31 pm
Location: NC

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by statefan03 »

Munger's exact words were "the first $100,000 is a b****". LOL.
kelvan80
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:06 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by kelvan80 »

First $1M in assets took us 14 years. We are 2/3 of the way to finishing the second and it's only taken 5 years.
alfaspider
Posts: 3337
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by alfaspider »

This has been extra true given the excellent returns over the last decade. If you had a $1 million in VOO in 2015, you have $2 million today, even if you didn't add a dime of new money, and even if it took you 50 years for that first million.
chenzi
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:07 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by chenzi »

2003-$500 (worked in Asia, just finished college as a 21 year old kid)
2005 -$2000
2006 - $12000
2007 - $40000 (worked in USA)
2008 - $20000 (financial crisis - moved back to Asia)
2012 - $120000
2014 - $400000
2015 - $500000 (moved back to USA)
2016 - $1000000
2018 - $1500000
2020 (June) - $2700000
2021 (Jan) - $3800000
User avatar
MinnGuyInvesting
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:24 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by MinnGuyInvesting »

chenzi wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:14 pm 2003-$500 (worked in Asia, just finished college as a 21 year old kid)
2005 -$2000
2006 - $12000
2007 - $40000 (worked in USA)
2008 - $20000 (financial crisis - moved back to Asia)
2012 - $120000
2014 - $400000
2015 - $500000 (moved back to USA)
2016 - $1000000
2018 - $1500000
2020 (June) - $2700000
2021 (Jan) - $3800000
Smokin!
Index ETF's 41% |ARK Funds 39% | AAPL 5% | TSLA 3% | GOOGL 1% | AMZN 1% |Other stocks 5% | BTC/ETH 5% | | | Tracking my porfolio: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5745280#p5745280
rockstar
Posts: 1302
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:51 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by rockstar »

Congrats. Hopefully, the 4th million is even easier.
xenorg
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:58 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by xenorg »

Fairly new to site. Similar story for me with OP. Didn't hit $1M (excluding home) til late 40s yet $2M came quickly and on path to more than quadruple that (on paper). But I started to pull out of market after around $1M and have transitioned entirely to private equity and loans over time, now entirely out of market. Did this through converting 401Ks to Rollover IRA when changing jobs and then to Self-Directed IRA as private direct PE/loan opportunities came up over time (direct PE/loans, not PE funds).

.....
BTW, for those considering SD-IRA and private world. It's easier to get into Direct PE world when qualified as an 'accredited investor' (ie: net worth over $1M excluding home) but it is possible to get into some PE and private loans with less. Got my sister into private investments with net worth below $1M, via 401K to SD-IRA conversion. Ideally hookup with someone you know/trust, well experienced in Direct PE world and become part of a pooled investment group (sorry, the one I'm in not taking outsiders). I'm spread across about 20 private investments/loans now, completely pulled out of stock market. It's generally a higher risk/higher reward approach so have taken informed risks and slowly transitioned into it over years (I transitioned over about 7 years, starting with only about 5% of portf into private world). IE, I've taken an 'informed risk' in a startup with a Harvard MBA starter who sold his last startup for over $1B, the new startup is now paying off nicely, IPO in works. Now part of a small well established investment group, we also loan to private smallish companies who have a long history of being very good at what they do, targeting first lien to reduce risk. The long term opportunities have been more consistent than market opportunities (more long term upside) so I've entirely pulled out of emotional/over-valued stock market. So nice to not be concerned about market ups/downs and trust in educated risks that have been working, can sleep better.

Downside is managing liquidity for some. I have taken out a line of credit against condo to use only if out of cash, which hasn't happened yet. Have 50% more interest generated from loans than my expenses (up from 30% a couple years ago), most is reinvested but also have staggered loans so principal also starts to return in staged periods. Not as hard to manage as might think but a LOC is a good backup just in case. Was able to comfortably retire from IT (never in mgmt) in early 50s with this approach.
Harri88
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:15 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by Harri88 »

bubbadog wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:40 am
17outs wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:14 am Interested where the OP or others are now. The last 3 years have been good to them. Status updates? :-)
Since you asked, I am now at $3,100,000 in my 65/35 3 fund portfolio.

I am 54 years old. I have continued to contribute about $90,000/year to my taxable and tax deferred accounts combined.

I had almost forgotten about this over 3 year old thread.

It looks like the next million took about three years.

I would love to get an update from NYCguy.

Best wishes to all of the Bogleheads community!
Thanks for the update. I found this thread very inspiring. We are working on our second, and are about 8.5% away! Hopefully, later this year, we will hit it. It will have taken approx 4 years for it to have doubled.
User avatar
Harry Livermore
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by Harry Livermore »

I will echo the title with my own experience.
The growth in our net worth has tapered off, however, since I started to increase the bond allocation to our AA a few years ago. VTSAX and the stock component in Wellesley, along with smaller amounts in other index funds and my Etrade account, only comprise about 45% of our net worth. A large chunk of our current earnings go towards aggressively paying down our home and our SFH rental (less than 2 years away) If we had sold the SFH in 2011 when we bought our current home, put that cash in VTSAX, and left the cash we used to buy the vacation rental in equities, I am sure that the growth in our net worth would have continued to curve upwards. Having said that, our real estate has shot up in value by all metrics that I can access (recent sales of comparables in both markets, Zillow, etc.) and I "like" real physical real estate for a variety of reasons that are way off-topic. We certainly would have been "smarter" to have simply been in VTSAX. But the appreciation and cashflow (mostly spent on college) has been nothing to sneeze at.
To get back to the topic... I had a terrible year for income, yet our net worth increased by more than what I would have earned in an average year. I'm not sure what that is illustrative of but it's comforting.
:sharebeer
Cheers
ddurrett896
Posts: 1478
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by ddurrett896 »

LiterallyIronic wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:29 pm
winterfan wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:07 am Definitely! We hit the 1m mark early last year. I guess I should amend my earlier comment. It was closer to 5 years, not 6. Now we are up to almost 1.3m with this market. Crazy! We save roughly 20-25K a year, so we had our own contributions during that time. Our average salary was low to mid 60s.
How are you doing that on low- to mid-60s? I make $60k but can only save $1,200/month ($14,400 per year), which is 24% of my gross income. Taxes eats another 20% of gross. Then there's my $808/month mortgage that I throw an extra $200/month toward principal, so that's another 20% of gross. That leaves me with 36% of my income, or $1,800/month to live on. Which we (me, wife, baby) can, but not with a lot to spare. Increasing savings to $20k/year leave us with $1,334/month and $25k/year would have us down to $917/month. That sounds incredibly difficult. How do you do it?
It's not normal. Investing $14.4K each year with even a 10% return takes 20 years for the $1M, 6 more years for $2M and 4 years for $3M.

Saving 24% of your gross income is GREAT!
User avatar
Picasso
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:19 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by Picasso »

MrNewEngland wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:02 pm With salaries like that... how are you not worth more than that?
Lives in NYC where the ice cream cones are $13
User avatar
backofbeyond
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:07 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by backofbeyond »

I know this is an old thread, but I enjoyed reading the postings, so thought I'd share my 2 cents.

I first hit $2M somewhere around 2005. I had a rather large RE holding that took off, prior to the RE crash of 2008, it topped out at around $3.6M. However, I was in my early 40's then, enjoyed my job and decided to simply hold on. If you go back to my posting during that timeframe you will see where more than a few BH told me to sell & bank at least part of my holding, but instead, I did nothing. When the RE bubble popped, that $3.6M dropped down to about $400k, and remained more or less there until I sold out in 2018. Based on my analysis, had I simply put the seed money into the S&P during the same timeframe, I'd have done about the same.

I hit $2M again this Jan (2021), last year I came close but then COVID hit. I figured that it will take me atleast 4 years to hit $3M. As I have 7 years left before I can retire with full benefits from my Civil Servant job, I'm prepared to go the long haul. However, at $3M, it begins to get "silly" for me to keep working. So, I guess I will cross the bridge when I come to it.

Oh, and just a quick comment on these type of postings. OP is exactly right, you can't discuss these topics with family or even close friends. The only people that have any idea of my wealth is my DW, my daughter (she knows because I had to spill the beans when she wanted state college assistance) and my best friend. Well, once I told my BF, he seems to think that any problem I have can simply be wiped away with a check book and what's even worst, he actually said that on one of my Face Book posting, he actually posted my net worth! So I learned the hard way, to keep this info to only those with a need to know.
The question isn't at what age I want to retire, it is at what income. - George Foreman
User avatar
ccf
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by ccf »

JustinR wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:53 pm Has anyone been tracking their net worth on a spreadsheet?

For some reason, my line is linear, even though it would seem it should be somewhat exponential (like a curve). What's your line like?
Replying to an old post to say that 2020 was quite a year

Image
minesweep
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:17 pm

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by minesweep »

A million dollars today isn't what it used to be. I recall watching 'The Millionaire" TV show that aired from 1955-1960. The benefactor named John Beresford Tipton gave a 1 million dollar check to his executive secretary Michael Anthony. His instructions were to give the check to the unsuspecting intended recipient.

The Millionaire (TV series)

A million dollars back in 1960 is now equal to over 8.7 million today.

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=1000000&year=1960
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy - John Bogle | Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others, it's cheaper! - John Bogle
csmath
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:32 am

Re: 2nd million is easier!

Post by csmath »

ccf wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:43 am
JustinR wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:53 pm Has anyone been tracking their net worth on a spreadsheet?

For some reason, my line is linear, even though it would seem it should be somewhat exponential (like a curve). What's your line like?
Replying to an old post to say that 2020 was quite a year

Image
If you zoom in close enough to any curve, it is going to look linear. When discussing compounding growth of money with younger people I'll graph out growth of $$$ over time with the x-axis being age. I always start around 40 or 45 years old and talk about all of the thousands of reasons why people wait until forty to start and try to get the point across that there are always excuses that sound great no matter what age you are. At this point the graph is completely unimpressive but I have an exponential growth equation visible.

Next step is I change the starting date to somewhere in the 20's which requires the graph to be extended by 20 years. At this point the "curve" in the curve can't be denied. Then I discuss the fact that the variable that we are most likely to be able to influence that has the largest impact is t=time. It leads to all sorts of interesting discussion, including a discussion on why so many people don't understand how "easy" it is to be a millionaire and also why it is so rare and perceived to be so hard.

Now, understand that this is simply trying to make exponential growth functions applicable as well as to give them some potentially "life changing" information that they otherwise wouldn't hear. Please spare me the conversation and vitriol for saying that it is easy to be a millionaire, you're missing the point. Part of the discussion is why so many adults get furious at the simple phrase, "becoming a millionaire isn't really that hard" and I try to address that also. In the end they see exponential growth applied to something they care about and at the same time hopefully learn something directly applicable to their lives.

It is also interesting to apply the "exponential cost" of certain lifestyle habits, like smoking. Pointing out that lifetime habits can be both extremely expensive or extremely valuable is eyeopening for many because they think of things in terms of individual unit expense.

I'll stop rambling on... to my point, yes your curve will look linear for a while but if the general results of growth from the past continue into the future, your line will start looking less linear as the time interval increases. Unfortunately for many, it takes more time than they give themselves for the real power of exponential growth to show up.
Post Reply