Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

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Doc
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Doc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:13 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:27 pm
Some minor annoyances, like the "settlement fund" which sometimes but not always get swept into Prime Money Mkt (which I use for my cash there).
Depends what the meaning of "there" is.
Vanguard wrote:Our Federal Money Market Fund**—which also seeks to maintain a stable $1 NAV—is now the only fund that can be used to settle brokerage trades. The fund isn't subject to the liquidity fee or redemption gate requirements.
https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... et-reform/

I didn't think you should be seeing automatic "sweeps" to Prime Money Market anymore.
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by RustyShackleford » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:09 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:13 pm
RustyShackleford wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:27 pm
Some minor annoyances, like the "settlement fund" which sometimes but not always get swept into Prime Money Mkt (which I use for my cash there).
Depends what the meaning of "there" is.
Vanguard.
Vanguard wrote:Our Federal Money Market Fund**—which also seeks to maintain a stable $1 NAV—is now the only fund that can be used to settle brokerage trades. The fund isn't subject to the liquidity fee or redemption gate requirements.
https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... et-reform/

I didn't think you should be seeing automatic "sweeps" to Prime Money Market anymore.
I checked that link, and it wasn't obvious why.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Doc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:15 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:09 pm
Vanguard wrote:
Our Federal Money Market Fund**—which also seeks to maintain a stable $1 NAV—is now the only fund that can be used to settle brokerage trades. The fund isn't subject to the liquidity fee or redemption gate requirements.
https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... et-reform/

I didn't think you should be seeing automatic "sweeps" to Prime Money Market anymore.
I checked that link, and it wasn't obvious why.
It has to do with the new SEC regs coming from the Lehman crisis. Click on some of the links on the reference page.

for example:
Understanding liquidity fees & gates
Liquidity fees and gates are tools to help money market fund managers keep the funds stable during times of extreme market duress. Under the rules:

A fund may impose a fee of up to 2% on redemptions if a fund's weekly liquid assets fall below 30% of its total assets.
A fund must impose a 1% fee on redemptions (with the option of imposing a fee of up to 2%) if a fund's weekly liquid assets fall below 10% of its total assets—unless the fund's board determines a fee would not be in the fund's best interest
I think "a fund must impose a fee" is the key issue. Imposing a redemption fee on a settlement fund would be a nightmare. Different MM funds have different rules. Prime MM falls into the "must" group I guess because of it having corporate securities. But the Federal MM fund does not because it is all guaranteed by the Guv. To avoid catastrophes Vg decided to change their settlement MM fund to those funds less like to cause problems.

FWIW Schwab is using another approach by requiring settlement funds to be in FDIC deposits at Schwab Bank in the future.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by senex » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm

goshenBogle, congrats on winning that battle. If enough of us stick together I'm hopeful our legacy accounts will be safe indefinitely. For what it's worth, Vanguard told me (I called today) that there would be no forcible conversions. I'm trying to get it in writing. :)

I can't say why they're doing it. This thread has several reasonable hypotheses.

The people suggesting that the brokerage is equally-good-or-better are, I think, mostly speaking out of well-intentioned ignorance. There are certainly people for which the conversion provides benefits: new features or consolidation. But there are legitimate downsides that haven't been well-summarized yet. I'm not talking about transitional glitches and feature mismatches -- which are temporary technical issues that will be fixed in good time. I'm talking about long-term psychological and regulatory disadvantages of the brokerage accounts verses mutual fund accounts:
  • Asset Safety -- mutual fund accounts are held in trust that is safe from bankruptcy of both Vanguard and the custodian (see Investment Company Act of 1940). That is a huge level of safety. A brokerage that goes bankrupt can theoretically lose all your shares above the SIPC $500k. Vanguard has additional insurance from Lloyd's, but the text on their website is not clearly written or reassuring.
  • Paradox of Choice -- having more options increases anxiety and can lead to worse decisions. Brokerage accounts have more options.
  • Industry Employees -- employees in the financial industry may (a) be prohibited from having an external brokerage, or (b) be required to send brokerage statements to their employer, which creates a privacy issue. Mutual fund accounts have no such restrictions.
  • Lack of Annual Statements -- mutual fund companies provide a year-end statement in print (I'm not sure if this is required by ICA1940 or some other regulation, but it seems universal). Brokerages typically do not send a year-end statement, and sometimes send no statements at all -- which makes long-term record keeping very difficult.
  • Late Tax Forms -- mutual fund 1099s generally arrive quite early (Jan - mid Feb) and are correct the first time. Brokerage 1099s typically arrive later (Feb - Mar) and are frequently incorrect and thus amended as late as April. Also, brokerage 1099s are visually more complicated and difficult to parse. I don't know the source of the difference (the custodian issue may vastly simply mutual fund accounting?) -- but in decades of doing taxes it seems remarkably consistent (mutual funds = early & correct; brokerages = late & incorrect)

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by RustyShackleford » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm

senex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm
b
  • Lack of Annual Statements -- mutual fund companies provide a year-end statement in print (I'm not sure if this is required by ICA1940 or some other regulation, but it seems universal). Brokerages typically do not send a year-end statement, and sometimes send no statements at all -- which makes long-term record keeping very difficult.
My new Vanguard brokerage account has been sending statements every month. But it appears that they will not send a statement showing the entire year's transactions, as the mutual fund account used to do. My solution is simply to go to the "View Transactions" tab, set a custom date range of Jan 1 through Dec 31 of the previous year (why they don't have a "previous year" option is a mystery), and export a CSV file which I then suck into an Excel spreadsheet. This better than the year-end summary in a way, because you can sort it in various ways (by date, by holding), and it's therefore just as good for long-term record keeping.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by cb474 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:38 pm

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet in this thread. Another feature lacking in the brokerage accounts is that you cannot do automatic exchanges between funds, only automatic purchases (from your bank account) and sales.

When Vanguard bugged me about switching a year ago, I thought this was a feature they would eventually provide. But they haven't, so now I'm assuming they do not intend to allow this feature in brokerage accounts.

Anyway, I ignored the request that I switch and eventually they stopped bugging me.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by wander » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:02 pm

goshenBogle wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:56 am
We fought hard and won - Vanguard agreed to keep our joint accounts as legacy - not brokerage - accounts since we have been with Vanguard over 30 years and have millions with them. We do not like the way Vanguard handles brokerage accounts. We had one brokerage account and every quarter the account statements consistently had errors that required multiple phone calls to resolve. Plus because we have multiple Vanguard mutual funds the brokerage statement design was hard to work with.

So, why does Vanguard want to switch all accounts to brokerage? What is the advantage for them? And why won't they give new customers the option of not having brokerage accounts?
Why did you have to fight? We have seen the upgrade button but left it alone and Vanguard didn't change anything to our joint account.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by RustyShackleford » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:25 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm
senex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm
b
  • Lack of Annual Statements -- mutual fund companies provide a year-end statement in print (I'm not sure if this is required by ICA1940 or some other regulation, but it seems universal). Brokerages typically do not send a year-end statement, and sometimes send no statements at all -- which makes long-term record keeping very difficult.
My new Vanguard brokerage account has been sending statements every month. But it appears that they will not send a statement showing the entire year's transactions, as the mutual fund account used to do. My solution is simply to go to the "View Transactions" tab, set a custom date range of Jan 1 through Dec 31 of the previous year (why they don't have a "previous year" option is a mystery), and export a CSV file which I then suck into an Excel spreadsheet. This better than the year-end summary in a way, because you can sort it in various ways (by date, by holding), and it's therefore just as good for long-term record keeping.
BTW, I just noticed that the December 2017 statement for my brokerage account is titled "December 31, 2017, year-to-date statement". But it's not; it's only for December. I wonder if they meant it to contain all the year's transactions (like the mutual fund EOY statement) but messed up ?

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Finridge » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:39 pm

For us, the change has been all downsides and no upsides. Or if there are any upsides, I haven't noticed them yet. Getting anything done takes longer. There was a transfer that in the past I would have been able to do myself online. Because of the "upgrade" this wasn't possible. It took multiple phone calls over multiple days. And they never to it to where it worked online. They had to do it manually. They said this was because of system changes that were part of it being made into a brokerage account. There have been other problems also, including account statements not showing all account activity.

In fact, these issues prompted me to open an account at Fidelity and move over some of our portfolio. Not all of it--we're playing both sides of the fence for now.

In setting up the new account, we encountered multiple "glitches" in the Fidelity system--so it turns out that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Or maybe it is greener, but still not as green as we were hoping.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Doc » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:41 pm

Every Saturday morning I download all my transaction data from 3 brokers and 2 banks to my financial software. I have no need for a year to date or qtr to date or even a monthly statement. I don't see an issue here.
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by jebmke » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:47 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:25 pm
BTW, I just noticed that the December 2017 statement for my brokerage account is titled "December 31, 2017, year-to-date statement". But it's not; it's only for December. I wonder if they meant it to contain all the year's transactions (like the mutual fund EOY statement) but messed up ?
One of the unfortunate characteristics of their brokerage statements is the lack of cumulative transaction data. This has been a feature for a long time - well before the upgrade season started. It is a real drawback - means you have to save the monthly brokerage statements.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Mel Lindauer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:14 pm

The529guy wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:41 pm
I can’t seem to use mobile check deposit after converting to brokerage. Sad.
Mobile check deposit is one former feature that was lost in the "upgrade" to VBS. (There are more.) This is sad indeed.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Mel Lindauer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:20 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:25 pm
RustyShackleford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm
senex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm
b
  • Lack of Annual Statements -- mutual fund companies provide a year-end statement in print (I'm not sure if this is required by ICA1940 or some other regulation, but it seems universal). Brokerages typically do not send a year-end statement, and sometimes send no statements at all -- which makes long-term record keeping very difficult.
My new Vanguard brokerage account has been sending statements every month. But it appears that they will not send a statement showing the entire year's transactions, as the mutual fund account used to do. My solution is simply to go to the "View Transactions" tab, set a custom date range of Jan 1 through Dec 31 of the previous year (why they don't have a "previous year" option is a mystery), and export a CSV file which I then suck into an Excel spreadsheet. This better than the year-end summary in a way, because you can sort it in various ways (by date, by holding), and it's therefore just as good for long-term record keeping.
BTW, I just noticed that the December 2017 statement for my brokerage account is titled "December 31, 2017, year-to-date statement". But it's not; it's only for December. I wonder if they meant it to contain all the year's transactions (like the mutual fund EOY statement) but messed up ?
This is another feature previously available that got lost in the "upgrade" to VBS. Each month's statement claims to be YTD, but it's not; rather, it's just a monthly statement.

As a result, we have to keep an entire year's worth of monthly statements instead of just one final December YTD as we did previous to the "upgrade" to VBS.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Nowizard » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:28 pm

Ours have apparently not been switched yet since we have not received any notice. Will the change mean you can purchase ETF's and stocks through the account? We have never purchased a stock or ETF from Vanguard and have never completed any forms, if required, that would allow trades. Is this so onerous that anyone has moved accounts?

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by susze » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:50 pm

I spoke with someone on the phone at VG regarding this and they are not switching or forcing people to switch. He did admit that the emails sent out did make it sound that way and they are definitely encouraging people to do it. Not that Vanguard is about getting or retaining customers but they would lose some if they forced people to. Certain professions do not allow brokerage accounts unless they are monitored

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by midareff » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:21 pm

I have brokerage accounts in both taxable and IRA. Nothing is in either of them as all funds are still in the prior accounts.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by stvyreb » Fri May 18, 2018 2:18 pm

you know, I just messaged with my VG rep, he says he is "not aware" of any forced upcoming switch of "all accounts to brokerages" for the record.

seems like the premise of this whole thread is mute? or what susze said there, maybe in the future more caution or some reference in a post like this you be nice

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by zaplunken » Sun May 20, 2018 3:44 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm
senex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm
b
  • Lack of Annual Statements -- mutual fund companies provide a year-end statement in print (I'm not sure if this is required by ICA1940 or some other regulation, but it seems universal). Brokerages typically do not send a year-end statement, and sometimes send no statements at all -- which makes long-term record keeping very difficult.
My new Vanguard brokerage account has been sending statements every month. But it appears that they will not send a statement showing the entire year's transactions, as the mutual fund account used to do. My solution is simply to go to the "View Transactions" tab, set a custom date range of Jan 1 through Dec 31 of the previous year (why they don't have a "previous year" option is a mystery), and export a CSV file which I then suck into an Excel spreadsheet. This better than the year-end summary in a way, because you can sort it in various ways (by date, by holding), and it's therefore just as good for long-term record keeping.
jebmke wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:47 pm
RustyShackleford wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:25 pm
BTW, I just noticed that the December 2017 statement for my brokerage account is titled "December 31, 2017, year-to-date statement". But it's not; it's only for December. I wonder if they meant it to contain all the year's transactions (like the mutual fund EOY statement) but messed up ?
One of the unfortunate characteristics of their brokerage statements is the lack of cumulative transaction data. This has been a feature for a long time - well before the upgrade season started. It is a real drawback - means you have to save the monthly brokerage statements.
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:20 pm
RustyShackleford wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:25 pm
RustyShackleford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm
senex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm
b
  • Lack of Annual Statements -- mutual fund companies provide a year-end statement in print (I'm not sure if this is required by ICA1940 or some other regulation, but it seems universal). Brokerages typically do not send a year-end statement, and sometimes send no statements at all -- which makes long-term record keeping very difficult.
My new Vanguard brokerage account has been sending statements every month. But it appears that they will not send a statement showing the entire year's transactions, as the mutual fund account used to do. My solution is simply to go to the "View Transactions" tab, set a custom date range of Jan 1 through Dec 31 of the previous year (why they don't have a "previous year" option is a mystery), and export a CSV file which I then suck into an Excel spreadsheet. This better than the year-end summary in a way, because you can sort it in various ways (by date, by holding), and it's therefore just as good for long-term record keeping.
BTW, I just noticed that the December 2017 statement for my brokerage account is titled "December 31, 2017, year-to-date statement". But it's not; it's only for December. I wonder if they meant it to contain all the year's transactions (like the mutual fund EOY statement) but messed up ?
This is another feature previously available that got lost in the "upgrade" to VBS. Each month's statement claims to be YTD, but it's not; rather, it's just a monthly statement.

As a result, we have to keep an entire year's worth of monthly statements instead of just one final December YTD as we did previous to the "upgrade" to VBS.
Vanguard told me all accounts would be converted so I stupidly went along with it a few years ago, I deeply regret this. I have a taxable, a rollover IRA and Roth account. I used to get monthly statements if there was activity like bond interest, then aquarterly cumulative statement and the 4th quarter was for the entire year, each account's activity for the entire year on it's own December statement. Now I get 12 statements for my rollover IRA as it has a bond fund, December is just for December so I have 12 of these. The other 2 accounts I get a statement when there's cap gains or dividends but no cumulative year end December statement. The amount of paper is choking me. Where I kept the December statement showing all activity for the year for each account I now have monthly or quarterly statements for them.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by RustyShackleford » Sun May 20, 2018 4:03 pm

zaplunken wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:44 pm
The amount of paper is choking me. Where I kept the December statement showing all activity for the year for each account I now have monthly or quarterly statements for them.
Yeah, it's crazy and stupid. I imagine there are federal regs requiring that frequency of statements for brokerage accounts, but I seriously doubt that prevents Vanguard from doing what they do for mutual-fund accounts by giving us a year-end statement showing the entire year of transactions. Or maybe not, Schwab doesn't do it, and IMHO they are by far the best financial house when it comes to communications and website.

But like I said, I now just export my transactions for the entire year (using the transactions tab at the website) and put those in a spreadsheet.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by foxfirev5 » Sun May 20, 2018 4:16 pm

Yes indeed.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by foxfirev5 » Sun May 20, 2018 4:20 pm

...and Jack Bogle doesn't work here anymore. Thank-you

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by zaplunken » Mon May 21, 2018 8:06 am

RustyShackleford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm
senex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm
b

My new Vanguard brokerage account has been sending statements every month. But it appears that they will not send a statement showing the entire year's transactions, as the mutual fund account used to do. My solution is simply to go to the "View Transactions" tab, set a custom date range of Jan 1 through Dec 31 of the previous year (why they don't have a "previous year" option is a mystery), and export a CSV file which I then suck into an Excel spreadsheet. This better than the year-end summary in a way, because you can sort it in various ways (by date, by holding), and it's therefore just as good for long-term record keeping.
RustyShackleford can you explain how to find "View Transactions"? I have looked at everything and can't find that tab or anywhere for that matter that lets me specify a date range. If I can display 1/1/2017 through 12/31/2017 for my accounts (Taxable, Rollover and Roth) I can print my own yearly summary and go paperless! This would be great.

Thank you!

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by bondsr4me » Mon May 21, 2018 8:14 am

I converted years a ago and I am glad I did.

I'm not a mutual fund type person anyway. I like buying ETF's, individual bonds, stocks.

I actually contacted VG and told them I wanted to convert to a "brokerage" account....didn't take all that long as I recall.

No real issues for me that I remember.

Don

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by paramedic » Mon May 21, 2018 9:26 am

goshenBogle, what kind of errors did you find?

Are we talking about substantive errors or more minor / cosmetic errors?

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Freefun » Mon May 21, 2018 9:34 am

zaplunken wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:06 am
RustyShackleford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm
senex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm
b

My new Vanguard brokerage account has been sending statements every month. But it appears that they will not send a statement showing the entire year's transactions, as the mutual fund account used to do. My solution is simply to go to the "View Transactions" tab, set a custom date range of Jan 1 through Dec 31 of the previous year (why they don't have a "previous year" option is a mystery), and export a CSV file which I then suck into an Excel spreadsheet. This better than the year-end summary in a way, because you can sort it in various ways (by date, by holding), and it's therefore just as good for long-term record keeping.
RustyShackleford can you explain how to find "View Transactions"? I have looked at everything and can't find that tab or anywhere for that matter that lets me specify a date range. If I can display 1/1/2017 through 12/31/2017 for my accounts (Taxable, Rollover and Roth) I can print my own yearly summary and go paperless! This would be great.

Thank you!
When I log on to VG
MY accounts tab
Transaction History
Download (right side of the window)
There you can select date range etc.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by arf30 » Mon May 21, 2018 9:48 am

What are the disadvanges of the brokerage account vs the mutual fund account? I remember clicking something to accept the upgrade a year or two back but haven't noticed any differences.

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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by nisiprius » Mon May 21, 2018 10:03 am

I will just point out that this is the way Fidelity has done it at least since 2006, probably much earlier, and probably Schwab, too. My only "account" at Fidelity was a brokerage account, and Fidelity funds were held within the brokerage account.

As far as I know it is still possible to have an account directly with a mutual fund company. Such an account has low, often no fees, but only allows you to invest in funds within the fund family. This is true for Dodge & Cox, for example. It was not possible to hold mutual funds in a brokerage account before the mid-1990s, when Schwab created the "OneSource Mutual Fund Supermarket."

Vanguard Brokerage Services was a sort of "private-badged" operation of Pershing LLC. In those days, Vanguard mutual funds and everything else were very clearly completely separate operations with different account numbers (and different rules and differences in how they were listed on account statements). You had one account at Vanguard, a direct mutual-fund account just as you might have at Dodge & Cox. You also had a brokerage account. They were joined at the hip, clumsily, by being able to share a single settlement account, display both sets of accounts on the same web page, see both accounts printed together on a single statement.

Circa 2009 Vanguard brought their brokerage operations in-house, i.e. truly began operating their "own" brokerage, but the Vanguard funds/Everything else split remained.

This really ticked off some Forum members. If I recall correctly, it affected what you could buy on a same-day "sell to buy." If you were selling something in order to buy a non-Vanguard fund, you could place the buy order the same day, because the brokerage's rules allowed them to assume that funds from the completed sale would be available for the purchase by the settlement date. But if you were selling in order to buy a Vanguard fund, you had to wait days for the sale to settle before you could buy, because actual cash money would need to leave the brokerage account. This led to the IMHO justifiable complaint that Vanguard made it easier for you to buy a competitor's fund than a Vanguard fund.

For sure this didn't happen at Fidelity, and I don't think it happened at Schwab either. Vanguard wasn't providing a "normal" experience.

So that's probably one of the reasons for the maneuver.

When is the ten-year anniversary of Vanguard bringing brokerage operations in-house? Perhaps, at that time, they will finally be able to celebrate an integrated, seamless experience for their customers.
Last edited by nisiprius on Mon May 21, 2018 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by nisiprius » Mon May 21, 2018 10:06 am

arf30 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:48 am
What are the disadvanges of the brokerage account vs the mutual fund account? I remember clicking something to accept the upgrade a year or two back but haven't noticed any differences.
The mutual fund accounts offered a variety of automatically scheduled purchases, sales, and exchanges. I don't think the full range is yet available for brokerage accounts. That would be one difference.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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zaplunken
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by zaplunken » Mon May 21, 2018 7:09 pm

Freefun wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:34 am
zaplunken wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:06 am
RustyShackleford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm
senex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:57 pm
b

My new Vanguard brokerage account has been sending statements every month. But it appears that they will not send a statement showing the entire year's transactions, as the mutual fund account used to do. My solution is simply to go to the "View Transactions" tab, set a custom date range of Jan 1 through Dec 31 of the previous year (why they don't have a "previous year" option is a mystery), and export a CSV file which I then suck into an Excel spreadsheet. This better than the year-end summary in a way, because you can sort it in various ways (by date, by holding), and it's therefore just as good for long-term record keeping.
RustyShackleford can you explain how to find "View Transactions"? I have looked at everything and can't find that tab or anywhere for that matter that lets me specify a date range. If I can display 1/1/2017 through 12/31/2017 for my accounts (Taxable, Rollover and Roth) I can print my own yearly summary and go paperless! This would be great.

Thank you!
When I log on to VG
MY accounts tab
Transaction History
Download (right side of the window)
There you can select date range etc.

Freefun,

ETA I see how I can specify a specify date range just now but still don't know how to deal with the download option.

I don't think this is doing what I wanted to do. First of all "Choose your download option", I don't have these things and when it comes to the date range it only allows certain time frames not the ability to specify 1/1/2017 to 12/31/2017 and that is what I thought RustyShackleford was saying could be done. All I want is to print out all the activity for a calendar year and save that vs all the monthly paper. I have 3 brokerage accounts, a taxable, a rollover IRA and a Roth IRA. If I could do this for each of those I could have an entire year's worth of activity in 1 set of paper for each account like I used to have when I had a mutual fund account vs this crappy brokerage account.

So if you or anyone knows if I can do that I'd appreciate it.

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jeffyscott
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by jeffyscott » Tue May 22, 2018 7:27 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:14 pm
The529guy wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:41 pm
I can’t seem to use mobile check deposit after converting to brokerage. Sad.
Mobile check deposit is one former feature that was lost in the "upgrade" to VBS. (There are more.) This is sad indeed.
Website says you can, now:

Can I use mobile check investment to add money to my brokerage account settlement fund?

Yes. Your money is available immediately after you complete the transaction, but we place a 7-calendar-day hold on the check's total amount—the same collectability rule we apply to all other transactions. During this time you can use the money to buy investments, but you can't withdraw it from your account.


https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/F ... ent.jsp#2a
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

bondsr4me
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by bondsr4me » Tue May 22, 2018 8:01 pm

The last time I tried using mobile check deposit using the VG app, I got an message saying it wasn’t yet available for brokerage accounts.

Has anyone been able to use it recently?

Thanks

Don

Scooter57
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Scooter57 » Wed May 23, 2018 7:10 am

I just got the dreaded conversion banner on my account this morning. I saw it a couple years ago and ignored it, but I'm wondering if this time they will force me.

Any insight as to whether anything has changed that will make me have to do this? My old rep who I had dealt with for years passed away recently and I don't have any relationship with the guy who took over, so I don't know how much to trust what he says.

afatcat
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by afatcat » Wed May 23, 2018 8:37 am

I had the conversion notice this morning...but I already converted a few years back and am all on brokerage now. I assume it is an error and they don't want me to convert again. I will ask them if the message does not go away in the next few days.

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jeffyscott
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by jeffyscott » Wed May 23, 2018 8:57 am

bondsr4me wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:01 pm
The last time I tried using mobile check deposit using the VG app, I got an message saying it wasn’t yet available for brokerage accounts.

Has anyone been able to use it recently?

Thanks

Don
I have not, but I may try in another 6 weeks or so (new account) if my MIA rollover check does not turn up there in the meantime. I'd like to avoid mailing another check to them had I known this was even an option at the time, I probably would have waited 60 days to start the rollover.

I noticed other brokerages allow mobile deposit immediately for new accounts, not sure why Vg thinks they need to wait 60 days.
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

Faith20879
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Faith20879 » Wed May 23, 2018 9:05 am

Hi Scooter,

We have 5 accounts between two of us, all upgraded in 2016. It was a bit of apprehensive at the time but on retrospect, it was not a big deal. Listed below are some changes we noticed, if you google "Vanguard brokerage upgrade" you'll get a lot more hits.
1. Beneficiaries: all accounts lost the designation and had to be re-assigned.
2. Trading rights to spouse' accounts: all gone. Was told to have to retrace the process of getting the Medallion Signature and yada yada.
3. 1099s: the year we upgraded, all distributions before and after were displayed separately on different parts of the forms which made it a real chore came tax time 2016.
4. The 1099s now come in February as in January in the old time.
5. Reinvest div will have to be funneled through settlement fund. No longer can directly or automatically buy another fund as in the old time.

But all in all I would say it was a minor inconvenience compare to other problems in life. Have no regrets.

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jhfenton
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by jhfenton » Wed May 23, 2018 9:13 am

bondsr4me wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:01 pm
The last time I tried using mobile check deposit using the VG app, I got an message saying it wasn’t yet available for brokerage accounts.

Has anyone been able to use it recently?

Thanks

Don
I just tried it in the iPhone mobile app, and I still get the error "Alert: Go to vanguard.com or contact us to transact on this account." when I select Mobile Check. It's the same error I have always received in the app. I have no trouble doing other things in the app.

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jeffyscott
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by jeffyscott » Wed May 23, 2018 9:52 am

Faith20879 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:05 am
5. Reinvest div will have to be funneled through settlement fund. No longer can directly or automatically buy another fund as in the old time.
I have a setting in account maintenance, Trading profile that says: "Account dividend and capital gains election - Reinvest". Does this not take care of that?

I did just have to do a transaction for $0.19 because some residue somehow lingered in the settlement account, though.
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

bondsr4me
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by bondsr4me » Wed May 23, 2018 11:41 am

jhfenton wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:13 am
bondsr4me wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:01 pm
The last time I tried using mobile check deposit using the VG app, I got an message saying it wasn’t yet available for brokerage accounts.

Has anyone been able to use it recently?

Thanks

Don
I just tried it in the iPhone mobile app, and I still get the error "Alert: Go to vanguard.com or contact us to transact on this account." when I select Mobile Check. It's the same error I have always received in the app. I have no trouble doing other things in the app.
That is the error message I get too. I spoke to a VG rep and was told it was being worked on...that was last year I believe.
This is one of VG's "not so great technology" issues.
thanks,

Don

Faith20879
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Faith20879 » Wed May 23, 2018 11:49 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:52 am
Faith20879 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:05 am
5. Reinvest div will have to be funneled through settlement fund. No longer can directly or automatically buy another fund as in the old time.
I have a setting in account maintenance, Trading profile that says: "Account dividend and capital gains election - Reinvest". Does this not take care of that?
To the same fund, yes; to another fund, no. In the old platform I could designate the div to go to a non-settlement fund.

RadAudit
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by RadAudit » Wed May 23, 2018 12:42 pm

I just noted the dreaded "Upgrade" button. On clicking on the various accounts, I got the message that I couldn't perform the upgrade on-line because I take RMDs.


Maybe I can dodge the bullet for a few more years.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The Calvary isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Why is Vanguard switching all accounts to brokerage accounts?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed May 23, 2018 3:06 pm

RadAudit wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 12:42 pm
I just noted the dreaded "Upgrade" button. On clicking on the various accounts, I got the message that I couldn't perform the upgrade on-line because I take RMDs.


Maybe I can dodge the bullet for a few more years.
That is completely insane. But it certainly reinforces my resistance and inertia.

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