Vanguard customer service reps need some training

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Mr.BB
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Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Mr.BB » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:39 am

Just venting here since I can't call and talk to representative until Monday. I did an exchange (in my Roth account) yesterday over the phone. I wanted to clear out one of my funds since it overlaps with our 401k holdings and put the money to three other Roth funds that I already had in that account. I told him to break it up into a 25% 45% and 30% break down into each specific fund.
I look today and he did three exchanges, except the three exchanges total 25% and dumped it all into one fund. I don't get it. This actually has happened to me before, it is very frustrating! I know Vanguard will fix it after I talk with them but it shouldn't be this hard.
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mouses
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by mouses » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:50 am

So it sounds like he didn't introduce chaos, he just did part of what you wanted but not everything?

This is why I like to do stuff myself on the web, not over the phone with any company. You can still do the remainder yourself on the web, can't you?

With Vanguard customer service, you gets what you pays for.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Mr.BB » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am

No... Giving very specific instructions to take the money from one fund and exchange it into three specific funds is not chaos; it's simple directions.
I'm not going to fix Vanguard's mistake, they can fix it themselves.
If you brought your car in to be detailed and you noticed that they didn't clean your hub caps and tires, would you do it yourself or would you bring it back for them to fix it?
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runner3081
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by runner3081 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:26 am

mouses wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:50 am
This is why I like to do stuff myself on the web, not over the phone with any company.
I agree.

+1

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by garlandwhizzer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:10 pm

A lot of people on this Forum complain about Vanguard in one way or another. There is a simple way for those dissatisfied with Vanguard to fix this problem. Move your assets to another firm. I wish good luck to those who choose to do this.

Garland Whizzer

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Munir » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:26 pm

garlandwhizzer wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:10 pm
A lot of people on this Forum complain about Vanguard in one way or another. There is a simple way for those dissatisfied with Vanguard to fix this problem. Move your assets to another firm. I wish good luck to those who choose to do this.

Garland Whizzer
I think there is a place for constructive criticism and feedback. It doesn't always have to be "love it or leave it". I think Vanguard itself would appreciate feedback and criticisms because it benefits the organization and the clients.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by mouses » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:47 pm

Munir wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:26 pm
garlandwhizzer wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:10 pm
A lot of people on this Forum complain about Vanguard in one way or another. There is a simple way for those dissatisfied with Vanguard to fix this problem. Move your assets to another firm. I wish good luck to those who choose to do this.

Garland Whizzer
I think there is a place for constructive criticism and feedback. It doesn't always have to be "love it or leave it". I think Vanguard itself would appreciate feedback and criticisms because it benefits the organization and the clients.
I think Vanguard has made a deliberate decision to hire less qualified phone people than Schwab has, presumable because to hire more qualified people would require salaries Vanguard is not willing to pay.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by mouses » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:48 pm

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am
No... Giving very specific instructions to take the money from one fund and exchange it into three specific funds is not chaos; it's simple directions.
I'm not going to fix Vanguard's mistake, they can fix it themselves.
If you brought your car in to be detailed and you noticed that they didn't clean your hub caps and tires, would you do it yourself or would you bring it back for them to fix it?
If I could clean the hubcaps and tires with three or four clicks of a mouse almost instantaneously, I would do that rather than waste a lot of time on the phone.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by cfs » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:57 pm

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:39 am
. . . I told him to break it up into a 25% 45% and 30% break down into each specific fund . . .
Concur, very simple instructions. The next time have the rep "read back to you" for possible corrections. Better, the next time just do your transaction using their imperfect website. Wishing YOU and YOUR family a Merry Christmas, and thanks for reading.
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Doc » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:31 pm

mouses wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:47 pm
I think Vanguard has made a deliberate decision to hire less qualified phone people than Schwab has, presumable because to hire more qualified people would require salaries Vanguard is not willing to pay.
As alternative thinking, Vg is getting less qualified people because they are not willing to pay more.

Which is the corporate policy, lowest cost or best service? And the trade-off be damned. (Or at least covered up by mantra.)
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by livesoft » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:43 pm

It is not just Vanguard. It could be anybody. For example, it could be TDAmeritrade where my spouse has a 401(k) with a separate SDBA option that requires a phone call to have money moved between the two sides. You will like this: A phone call to move less than $200 resulted in an extra $85,000 moved from somebody else's account into her account. What was more fun was listening in on trying to get the mistake corrected. The customer service reps could not believe a mistake had happened in the first place. It took 4 phone calls and two requests to speak to a "supervisor" before someone would look into it, then more than a week to correct. Maybe my spouse should have kept the $85,000?
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by BogleMelon » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:56 pm

runner3081 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:26 am
mouses wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:50 am
This is why I like to do stuff myself on the web, not over the phone with any company.
I agree.

+1
+2
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by PFInterest » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:57 pm

Who does stuff over the phone? 😂

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BogleMelon
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by BogleMelon » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:58 pm

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am
I'm not going to fix Vanguard's mistake, they can fix it themselves.
Mr. BB, what would be the difference between wasting your time again over the phone so that they fix it, vs wasting your time over the web so that their computers can fix it?
Excuse my English, it is my second language! | | "One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

Mr.BB
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Mr.BB » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:00 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:43 pm
It is not just Vanguard. It could be anybody. For example, it could be TDAmeritrade where my spouse has a 401(k) with a separate SDBA option that requires a phone call to have money moved between the two sides. You will like this: A phone call to move less than $200 resulted in an extra $85,000 moved from somebody else's account into her account. What was more fun was listening in on trying to get the mistake corrected. The customer service reps could not believe a mistake had happened in the first place. It took 4 phone calls and two requests to speak to a "supervisor" before someone would look into it, then more than a week to correct. Maybe my spouse should have kept the $85,000?
+1
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Mr.BB » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:01 pm

cfs wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:57 pm
Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:39 am
. . . I told him to break it up into a 25% 45% and 30% break down into each specific fund . . .
Concur, very simple instructions. The next time have the rep "read back to you" for possible corrections. Better, the next time just do your transaction using their imperfect website. Wishing YOU and YOUR family a Merry Christmas, and thanks for reading.
+1
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Dale_G » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:10 pm

If the OP had told the rep to move X, Y and Z number of share to fund A, B and C, it would probably would have happened.

While I agree that Vanguard should have been able to handle a percentage sale, I always put instructions in the easiest possible terms.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by GCD » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:48 pm

Vent all you want. I feel your pain. But it is true that it's everywhere now. The world is too complex for the average person to handle anymore. The people that used to shovel manure out of the stable are now customer service reps. Whatcha gonna do??? :|

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by KyleAAA » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am

Yes, phone transactions are error prone. Perhaps your instructions weren’t as clear as you thought they were? Either way, doing it online is a far superior option.

livesoft
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:40 am

I don't think the OP's triple transaction can be done online in a single day. That's because after 25% is moved, the 45% and 30% become different, namely the original 45% is 60% of the remaining shares and the remaining 30% is 100% of those remaining shares. I don't think the web site is programmed to do it or if it is, then during execution it screws up. I think there was a "rant thread" a few years ago when someone tried it.
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by jhfenton » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:13 am

livesoft wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:40 am
I don't think the OP's triple transaction can be done online in a single day. That's because after 25% is moved, the 45% and 30% become different, namely the original 45% is 60% of the remaining shares and the remaining 30% is 100% of those remaining shares. I don't think the web site is programmed to do it or if it is, then during execution it screws up. I think there was a "rant thread" a few years ago when someone tried it.
The way I understand the OP's desired transaction, it can be done online quite easily on the brokerage platform:

Sell Fund X "By percentage" = 100% on the left side => Buy 25% + 40% + 35% of three different funds on the right side

I just tested a mock transaction in my account.

That doesn't guarantee the system wouldn't screw it up, but I think I've done a similar fund liquidation before.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by tibbitts » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:06 am

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:39 am
Just venting here since I can't call and talk to representative until Monday. I did an exchange (in my Roth account) yesterday over the phone. I wanted to clear out one of my funds since it overlaps with our 401k holdings and put the money to three other Roth funds that I already had in that account. I told him to break it up into a 25% 45% and 30% break down into each specific fund.
I look today and he did three exchanges, except the three exchanges total 25% and dumped it all into one fund. I don't get it. This actually has happened to me before, it is very frustrating! I know Vanguard will fix it after I talk with them but it shouldn't be this hard.
Why did you do this on the phone vs. online? There are transactions VG reps can do that you can't; it doesn't sound like this is one of them.

I wouldn't try to get VG to fix this unless there are some negative implications I'm not aware of. It's not like with a taxable account where you'd have tax issues.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by tibbitts » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:15 am

BogleMelon wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:56 pm
runner3081 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:26 am
mouses wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:50 am
This is why I like to do stuff myself on the web, not over the phone with any company.
I agree.

+1
+2
There are some transactions you can't do on the web that reps are able to do over the phone. I've encountered this in my own (mutual fund, not brokerage) VG account. This doesn't appear to be one of them, though.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by bikechuck » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:40 am

I have had at least three financial institutions make mistakes with my transactions including Vanguard, Lincoln and a local Savings and Loan.

Most recently I asked Lincoln to do a partial roll over of my 401K balance to an IRA. They goofed up and initiated a total roll over. When I first set up a Roth with Vanguard they goofed up and set it up and funded it as a traditional IRA.

I monitor any and all changes of this type in case someone goofs up and I have to say that it took only one phone call with both Vanguard and Lincoln to get things corrected on these two unrelated incidents. The S&L issue was problematic and took several call and letters to resolve.

Mistakes happen and I think highly of institutions such as Vanguard and Lincoln that acknowledge them and correct them in a prompt and professional manner when they occur. I will never do business with the S&L that tried to evade responsibility for the mistake that they made with a mortgage related matter many years ago.

The one thing that I have learned is to monitor your portfolio and to catch any mistakes early when they are easier to resolve.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:21 pm

Phone calls are always my last resort, as the electronic trail isn't as certain (unless you record your own calls). I did once have an issue with Charter regarding a deal offered by a CS rep that didn't show up properly. When talking to a supervisor I recalled the bit about "this call will be recorded". I told him to go check the recording and call me back. He did and honored the offer.

I have little information about Vanguard because I only used them for a Roth with a few mutual funds for a few years before I got serious about investing. From that point I've always used other custodians. In general I like TD Ameritrade the best because the people that handle the secure messaging have knowledge and the power to get things done. Some custodians have that almost as an after-thought, so if they can't send you a link or quote some document, they'll tell you to call someone real. Scottrade is the worst. Not only can the online do very little but they refer you to the LOCAL office, which has normal business hours.
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by BigJohn » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:59 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:21 pm
Phone calls are always my last resort, as the electronic trail isn't as certain (unless you record your own calls).
+1 on phone calls as last resort. In addition to electronic trail, it’s jus too prone to miscommunication and/or misunderstanding.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by DaftInvestor » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:08 pm

Is there a reason you didn't do this online? Online you get to see what's about to happen before confirming - seems far less error prone than actually trying to talk a low-paid customer service rep through it.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by FinancialDave » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:19 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:40 am
I don't think the OP's triple transaction can be done online in a single day. That's because after 25% is moved, the 45% and 30% become different, namely the original 45% is 60% of the remaining shares and the remaining 30% is 100% of those remaining shares. I don't think the web site is programmed to do it or if it is, then during execution it screws up. I think there was a "rant thread" a few years ago when someone tried it.
It can absolutely be done in a single day. In fact I just commented a couple days ago in a forum I moderate how to exactly do this in a Vanguard Roth:

https://www.debtfreefanatics.com/thread ... uestion(s)

Once you understand the simple math, which can be done offline if you first get the current balance totals of the 3 funds, you can go online and literally do this in less time than it would take your Vanguard representative to come on the line and verify you are who you say - easily less than 2 minutes and about 4 mouse clicks.

The key is to use the exchange function on the website rather than trying to do a buy / sell operation.

Livesoft, you are making $ moves so all you need to know ahead of time is how many dollars you need to move and to where.

Finally, with 3 funds I see no reason why that can't be done in 2 exchanges, because the math is that you need x-1 exchanges to balance x number of funds.

Dave
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by dkturner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:50 pm

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am
No... Giving very specific instructions to take the money from one fund and exchange it into three specific funds is not chaos; it's simple directions.
I'm not going to fix Vanguard's mistake, they can fix it themselves.
If you brought your car in to be detailed and you noticed that they didn't clean your hub caps and tires, would you do it yourself or would you bring it back for them to fix it?
If the detailer didn't charge me a fee for a half-ass detailing job I'd probably finish the job myself. On the other hand, if the detailer charged me $50.00 I'd probably bring the car back and raise hell.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by jhfenton » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:05 pm

FinancialDave wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:19 pm
The key is to use the exchange function on the website rather than trying to do a buy / sell operation.

Livesoft, you are making $ moves so all you need to know ahead of time is how many dollars you need to move and to where.

Finally, with 3 funds I see no reason why that can't be done in 2 exchanges, because the math is that you need x-1 exchanges to balance x number of funds.

Dave
You can't even do sell-buy mutual fund exchanges at Vanguard because the system doesn't credit pending mutual fund sales to available cash. You have to do an exchange.

And the way I understand the original transaction it was liquidating one fund and splitting it between three others. That is as straightforward with Vanguard's website.

In fact, Vanguard's website will let you exchange 1 fund => x funds or x funds => 1 fund (where x >= 1). It can't handle x funds => y funds in one exchange. You have to do x or y exchanges.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by FinancialDave » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:13 pm

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:39 am
Just venting here since I can't call and talk to representative until Monday. I did an exchange (in my Roth account) yesterday over the phone. I wanted to clear out one of my funds since it overlaps with our 401k holdings and put the money to three other Roth funds that I already had in that account. I told him to break it up into a 25% 45% and 30% break down into each specific fund.
I look today and he did three exchanges, except the three exchanges total 25% and dumped it all into one fund. I don't get it. This actually has happened to me before, it is very frustrating! I know Vanguard will fix it after I talk with them but it shouldn't be this hard.
Ok,
In re-reading the OP's post this is not a simple rebalance like I thought before, but the result really only requires 3 exchanges and can be done in one day:

Fund Zero is the one being eliminated and Funds A, B, C receive 25%/45%/30% respectively. Let's do an example:

$10,000 in fund ZERO to simplify the math.

1. Exchange fund ZERO (by clicking on "Exchange button" on right side of balances and holdings screen for this fund) - put $2500 in the amount box and continue and direct it to Fund A.
2 Similarly go back to balances screen and click on fund ZERO again and put $4500 into the amount box, and direct it to Fund B
3. Finally exchange from fund ZERO the remaining $3000 and send it to Fund C.

Stil could be done in a couple minutes (5 tops) with just a few mouse clicks.

jh, I think you are also correct in that one exchange could move the $10,000 into the 3 funds in one transaction.

Dave
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by jhfenton » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:24 pm

FinancialDave wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:13 pm
jh, I think you are also correct in that one exchange could move the $10,000 into the 3 funds in one transaction.
And there's a drop down option to sell/exchange by percentage that makes it easy if you're liquidating a fund like the OP.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by FinancialDave » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:34 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:24 pm
FinancialDave wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:13 pm
jh, I think you are also correct in that one exchange could move the $10,000 into the 3 funds in one transaction.
And there's a drop down option to sell/exchange by percentage that makes it easy if you're liquidating a fund like the OP.
That makes perfect sense, because you don't know what your closing balance is going to be, so using percentages makes more sense in the case where you want to liquidate the fund.

Dave
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Jim Beaux » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:22 pm

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:39 am
Just venting here since I can't call and talk to representative until Monday. I did an exchange (in my Roth account) yesterday over the phone. I wanted to clear out one of my funds since it overlaps with our 401k holdings and put the money to three other Roth funds that I already had in that account. I told him to break it up into a 25% 45% and 30% break down into each specific fund.
I look today and he did three exchanges, except the three exchanges total 25% and dumped it all into one fund. I don't get it. This actually has happened to me before, it is very frustrating! I know Vanguard will fix it after I talk with them but it shouldn't be this hard.
I needed to make a withdrawal & wanted to do so while maintaining my allocation ratio across 5 funds. I called & found that the VG rep & I couldnt communicate. He became resistant & kept throwing up road blocks. My frustration level grew to the point where I told him not to interrupt or speak over me & listen. His mind was made up & he just seemed to shut down.When I saw that he & I couldnt get on the same page, I politely told him, nothing personal, but you & I dont speak the same language. If you would, please connect me with someone else. The new rep got on the line & mission accomplished-fast, simple & easy.

BTW in response to anyone who needs to know why I didnt just do it online....cuz I didnt :wink:

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by livesoft » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:53 pm

Jim Beaux wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:22 pm
He became resistant & kept throwing up road blocks. My frustration level grew to the point where I told him not to interrupt or speak over me & listen. His mind was made up & he just seemed to shut down.
I think that's the same person my spouse ended up talking to at TDAmeritrade.
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by ResearchMed » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:09 pm

livesoft wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:53 pm
Jim Beaux wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:22 pm
He became resistant & kept throwing up road blocks. My frustration level grew to the point where I told him not to interrupt or speak over me & listen. His mind was made up & he just seemed to shut down.
I think that's the same person my spouse ended up talking to at TDAmeritrade.
And I think this must be the same person, having changed into a female, whom we both spoke with last week.

She told us that Vanguard had a "special relationship" with an outside fund family, such that only at Vanguard could no new purchases be made in one specific fund by current fund holders, whereas at other brokerages it was fine.
I had already called that company, so I knew that was nonsense.

Aha, probably also the same person a few years ago who said a fund wasn't available for us at Vanguard, because it was "illegal to sell it in our state".
Interesting... given that we held it at Schwab, and had no difficulties. And hadn't moved.

Both "problems" eventually got fixed.
No apologies. Just even more bizarre "explanations" that made no sense at all.

Do they take creative writing/speaking classes, perhaps? :annoyed

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:19 pm

I just checked, and we have 18 funds spread out over 5 accounts at Vanguard. We often deposit funds, withdraw funds, and exchange funds. Number of times we have called to initiate these moves: 0. So far so good.

The one time I went to a Fidelity B&M store to initiate a transaction, I was put on a phone line to their “401k specialist.” I told him we needed a check made out to Vanguard for $x, from account y, and FBO DW. Next check, also to Vanguard, for $a, from account b, and FBO DW. The “expert” agreed to do this, and said that he understood she was doing a mega backdoor transfer. Without any notification from the “expert,” in a week or so we got 3 checks for different amounts, close (within a couple of thousand) but no cigar. I just ate the tax consequences, and made a mental note to not believe the customer service hype about Fidelity and the supposed advantage of a B&M presence.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Doc » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:48 am

jhfenton wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:05 pm
You can't even do sell-buy mutual fund exchanges at Vanguard because the system doesn't credit pending mutual fund sales to available cash. You have to do an exchange
I believe you can on the brokeage platform. I usually will buy an ETF for example, get a "watchout" message and then sell or move enough money into the account. Even mismatched settlement dates should be allowed.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.

Da5id
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Da5id » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:20 am

BigJohn wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:59 pm
Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:21 pm
Phone calls are always my last resort, as the electronic trail isn't as certain (unless you record your own calls).
+1 on phone calls as last resort. In addition to electronic trail, it’s jus too prone to miscommunication and/or misunderstanding.
I agree with this as well. Failing a phone call, I'd rather ask my rep by written secure message to do something. Because things in writing aren't nearly as easy to misunderstand.

Vanguard clearly economizes on things like phone reps. They are now apparently taking away physical check investments by mail. And given that cheap ETFs/index mutual funds can be had anywhere, Vanguard's competitive advantage on cost isn't what it once was. There is really no more to be saved on index fund costs (maybe they can improve tracking in tricksy ways). The difference between .04% and .035% and .03% (and heck, if they get to it somehow, 0%) isn't actually very material to successful investing.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:43 am

Maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed (I did!), but I’d be perfectly happy if the people with customer requirements that Vanguard does a poor job with voted with their money and went elsewhere. I want 0% ER. I can buy my own Turbo Tax. I don’t need to speak with a human.

Da5id
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Da5id » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:56 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:43 am
Maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed (I did!), but I’d be perfectly happy if the people with customer requirements that Vanguard does a poor job with voted with their money and went elsewhere. I want 0% ER. I can buy my own Turbo Tax. I don’t need to speak with a human.
I suppose. But some of Vanguards savings come from economies of scale, and if they do get a truly bad customer service rep it may interfere with that. I've personally had no problems that could not be resolved (a few cost basis snafus that were fixed), and have had only good interactions with my rep. But if I did have issues, unlike in the past where I didn't see great alternatives, there are plenty that are (IMHO) just as good for an index investor.

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by jhfenton » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:45 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:48 am
jhfenton wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:05 pm
You can't even do sell-buy mutual fund exchanges at Vanguard because the system doesn't credit pending mutual fund sales to available cash. You have to do an exchange
I believe you can on the brokeage platform. I usually will buy an ETF for example, get a "watchout" message and then sell or move enough money into the account. Even mismatched settlement dates should be allowed.
Agreed. That works for buying ETFs, and that works for buying a mutual fund after selling an ETF (despite the mismatched settlement dates).

What doesn't work is entering a Sell order of Fund A for $1,000 and then entering a Buy order of Fund B for $1,000 (assuming you don't have $1,000 in your settlement fund otherwise). Mutual fund Buy orders require "Funds available to trade," and pending mutual fund Sell orders don't show up in that total.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by miamivice » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:55 am

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:39 am
Just venting here since I can't call and talk to representative until Monday. I did an exchange (in my Roth account) yesterday over the phone. I wanted to clear out one of my funds since it overlaps with our 401k holdings and put the money to three other Roth funds that I already had in that account. I told him to break it up into a 25% 45% and 30% break down into each specific fund.
I look today and he did three exchanges, except the three exchanges total 25% and dumped it all into one fund. I don't get it. This actually has happened to me before, it is very frustrating! I know Vanguard will fix it after I talk with them but it shouldn't be this hard.
Vanguard is a discount brokerage house. That means - their costs are lower, but their service is also lower.

I strongly recommend self-service on the web rather than calling them. If you don't wish to use the web to conduct transaction, perhaps a full service stock broker might be more to your liking. Of course, their transaction fees are higher though.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Wakefield1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:02 am

Just received a couple of "Invest by Mail" forms in the mail from Vanguard. Still have my non "Upgrade"ed mutual fund accounts as well as "Vanguard Brokerage Account".

Did have to call Vanguard on the phone a few years ago in order to have someone walk me through the online procedure for making a partial Roth conversion from my IRA into my already existing Roth IRA.

goingup
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by goingup » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:43 am

I wonder if this really was a case of poor customer service or if the rest of the transactions were still in process. I'm old and ever hopeful. Often when I wait a day or two the thing that I thought was a problem really wasn't. Hopeful and patient. :beer

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Doc
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Doc » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:57 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:45 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:48 am
jhfenton wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:05 pm
You can't even do sell-buy mutual fund exchanges at Vanguard because the system doesn't credit pending mutual fund sales to available cash. You have to do an exchange
I believe you can on the brokeage platform. I usually will buy an ETF for example, get a "watchout" message and then sell or move enough money into the account. Even mismatched settlement dates should be allowed.
Agreed. That works for buying ETFs, and that works for buying a mutual fund after selling an ETF (despite the mismatched settlement dates).

What doesn't work is entering a Sell order of Fund A for $1,000 and then entering a Buy order of Fund B for $1,000 (assuming you don't have $1,000 in your settlement fund otherwise). Mutual fund Buy orders require "Funds available to trade," and pending mutual fund Sell orders don't show up in that total.
Just tried to place an order for a Vg mutual fund that exceeded the funds available and got:
Vanguard wrote:This purchase exceeds the current funds available balance. Funds are due in your Federal Money Market Settlement Fund by the settlement date of the trade. Otherwise, securities in the account may be liquidated to pay for the purchase, and the account may be restricted.
I was not prevented from placing the order.

It is my understanding that if I place a T-3 sell order today that even though the sale would not close by settlement day of the T-1 buy order it would not be a trade violation.
Liquidations resulting from unsettled trades
This violation occurs when you buy a security in a cash account using sales proceeds that haven't yet settled. Then you sell the recently purchased security before the settlement of the initial sale.
As long as you don't sell the new security before the sell order settles and if the buy and sell orders are placed the same day I don't believe it is a trade violation.

While I didn't check my logs I am almost 100% sure that I have place a buy order at VBS without sufficient funds and initiated a bank transfer from Vanguard on the same day and not had any problem even though the bank transfer takes more than one day to settle.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by Doom&Gloom » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:13 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:43 am
Maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed (I did!), but I’d be perfectly happy if the people with customer requirements that Vanguard does a poor job with voted with their money and went elsewhere. I want 0% ER. I can buy my own Turbo Tax. I don’t need to speak with a human.
I would agree with this IF Vanguard's website makes everything available and clear and simple to use.

So far I have been able to do everything I have needed to do after establishing my account without any phone contact at all. But I have had a few head-scratching moments along the way.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by barnaclebob » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:17 pm

Munir wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:26 pm
garlandwhizzer wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:10 pm
A lot of people on this Forum complain about Vanguard in one way or another. There is a simple way for those dissatisfied with Vanguard to fix this problem. Move your assets to another firm. I wish good luck to those who choose to do this.

Garland Whizzer
I think there is a place for constructive criticism and feedback. It doesn't always have to be "love it or leave it". I think Vanguard itself would appreciate feedback and criticisms because it benefits the organization and the clients.
Personally im fine with vanguards customer service driving away the high cost customers that cant do simple things over the internet.

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by jhfenton » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:12 pm

Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:57 pm
Just tried to place an order for a Vg mutual fund that exceeded the funds available and got:
Hmm. I see the same thing. :beer I swear I couldn't do that before, but I got as far as the confirmation screen in both taxable and an IRA.

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Re: Vanguard customer service reps need some training

Post by livesoft » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:17 pm

Update: Isn't T+3 now T+2?
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