Retirees: I got this!!

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
User avatar
tennisplyr
Posts: 1326
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:53 pm
Location: Sarasota, FL

Retirees: I got this!!

Post by tennisplyr » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:27 am

Of those BHs who've been retired a while, I was wondering when you really started feeling comfortable about your finances in retirement. That is, where you thought it's highly unlikely that you'd run into massive distress about your investments. I've been retired almost 7 years and find myself feeling more and more confident about my financial future.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

Ruger
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:44 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Ruger » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:09 am

I've only been retired for two years, and I am reasonably comfortable that I am not going to run out of money. But I have decided that until I turn 70 (seven more years) I am going to live reasonably frugally, but not "cheaply". After 70, I will be super confident and will cut loose with the purse strings.

User avatar
oldcomputerguy
Posts: 1972
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:50 am
Location: In the middle of five acres of woods

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by oldcomputerguy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:14 am

Ruger wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:09 am
I've only been retired for two years, and I am reasonably comfortable that I am not going to run out of money. But I have decided that until I turn 70 (seven more years) I am going to live reasonably frugally, but not "cheaply". After 70, I will be super confident and will cut loose with the purse strings.
Same here. I'm now in my 11th month of retirement, and I'm reasonably confident both of my asset allocation and of my budget plan going forward. And if we can indeed make it to age 70 before taking Social Security, we'll likely "loosen the purse strings" considerably.
Anybody know why there's a 20-pound frozen turkey up in the light grid?

The Wizard
Posts: 10999
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by The Wizard » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:23 am

I retired March 2013 with a seven year gap to span before SS at age 70. So a bad sequence of returns could have forced a plan B change.

But markets have done well, so things are well in hand financially now. This realization became gradually evident over the last year or two...
Attempted new signature...

Cyclesafe
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:03 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Cyclesafe » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:26 am

I am approaching my 18th year of retirement and I'm actually wishing that I had opened the spigot a bit more early on. The only reason
I am posting this is that a concern of running out is sort of a mirror image of a regret of having denied oneself experiences that in hind sight were affordable.

Of course, I'll feel differently when the market tanks...........

User avatar
Sheepdog
Posts: 4774
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:05 pm
Location: Indiana, retired 1998 at age 65

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Sheepdog » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:31 am

I was reasonably comfortable with my financial well being, living off of SS and savings (very much less than a million, by the way), until my 11th year in retirement. Then that changed.... The Great Recession broke that confidence quite a bit. For example, I lost a year's worth of normal distributions in one market day after losing 30% or so for weeks before. (The mind goes "What if I have 50 more days like this?") After adjustments to portfolio and cash allocation, I became comfortable again and remain so and I believe I will remain so.
Last edited by Sheepdog on Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
People should not say everything they think. They should think about everything they say.

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii😀 Northern AZ.😳

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:32 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:27 am
Of those BHs who've been retired a while, I was wondering when you really started feeling comfortable about your finances in retirement. . . .
A little better
day by day
little by little.
LBM portfolio with a lot "off the table" helps me sleep. . . . . :D

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 4639
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by TheTimeLord » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:41 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:27 am
Of those BHs who've been retired a while, I was wondering when you really started feeling comfortable about your finances in retirement. That is, where you thought it's highly unlikely that you'd run into massive distress about your investments. I've been retired almost 7 years and find myself feeling more and more confident about my financial future.
Well since you had a very well timed retirement and you likely have more assets today than when you retired that would be understandable. I also assume with the bull market you may have been able to ease back from your initial 5% WR which should also being making you feel more secure. Point being, my guess is that how quickly retirees become comfortable with their finances in retirement has a lot to do with the performance of their investments in the early years of their retirement.
Run, You Clever Boy!

fishandgolf
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:50 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by fishandgolf » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:55 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:27 am
Of those BHs who've been retired a while, I was wondering when you really started feeling comfortable about your finances in retirement.
I've been retired nine years and the first two or three were stressful. I started to learn about the Boglehead way of investing in my second year. After a few years of getting comfortable with "doing it on my own", I started to reeeeeelaxxxxxx. Although the market has been on an upward swing for a very loooooong time and I know some folks start to think this will last forever......I know better. When the day comes to once again....batten down the hatches....I know some of that stress with return. But.....I now have a better discipline that will get me through those difficult times.

heyyou
Posts: 2732
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:58 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by heyyou » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 am

Been retired for 12 years. In 2008 we just stayed home until the recovery was significant. We knew we would be okay but that was not the retirement that we wanted, then the recovery occurred.

indexonlyplease
Posts: 792
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:30 pm
Location: Pembroke Pines, FL

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by indexonlyplease » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:04 am

I retired 18 months ago and it has been simple because of my pension. Pension makes it alot easier to feel secure. At least with the Florida Pension. I plan not to touch my investments for another 7 years. I will just have to decide how much more will I need each month.

Question, what is the best withdraw calculator to see how long the investments will last??

Also, I only plan on taking the investment gains for the year. Bad year I will not take money. My pension has a 3% cola.

Steve723
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Steve723 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:08 am

Well, it helps that we've been on a massive bull run. I imagine the "I got this" crowd has increased in proportion to the market. It's near-retirees that might be a little more worried.

indexonlyplease
Posts: 792
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:30 pm
Location: Pembroke Pines, FL

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by indexonlyplease » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:15 am

Steve723 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:08 am
Well, it helps that we've been on a massive bull run. I imagine the "I got this" crowd has increased in proportion to the market. It's near-retirees that might be a little more worried.
I agree. I think if I did not have a pension, I would have delayed retirement.. I think I would of continue to work until my investments were large enough that I could withdraw very little.

scrabbler1
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:39 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by scrabbler1 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:21 am

I retired 9 years ago at age 45, just when the markets were crashing in late 2008. I split my retirement plan into two parts. The first part was getting to age ~59.5 intact because I would be living mainly off my non-retirement portfolio. I am about 2/3 of the way there and all is great, my SWR is in the 2%-2.5% range. After age ~59.5, my reinforcements begin arriving. They are (a) unfettered access to my IRA, (b) my frozen company pension, and (c) Social Security.

Horsefly
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:13 am
Location: Colorado, mostly

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Horsefly » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:29 am

Wife and I retired at 55 in 2013. So far, we've traveled quite a bit and withdrawals have been 2%-3% each year, except for 2015 when we paid off our mortgage. This year could come in under 2%, mostly because of market gains (rather than lack of spending).

I'm comfortable that we will make it fine, but I expect that when the markets sink as I know they will, we will decrease our spending at least a little to ride it out.

sport
Posts: 6071
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by sport » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:33 am

I made sure that I was comfortable with our financial situation before I retired. If I were not confident, I would have delayed retiring. I have been retired 12 years and have not worried about finances during that time.

User avatar
Ged
Posts: 3291
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: Roke

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Ged » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:34 am

I retired 5 years ago at 62. Delayed social security. At 70 when I start SS I doubt I will need to draw on savings any more. The strong market performance has led to no worries about my saving being depleted - in fact they have increased despite my spending. Also despite my spending I've also been re-balancing from equities into bonds as well.

Like some others here I've loosened the purse strings a bit over the past year.

Sequence of returns really matters. It should be no surprise that recent retirees are exceeding expectations because of very good market performance. No guarantee that the next cohort of retirees will have the same experience so I'm not sure that recent experience will be a useful guide for future retirees.

User avatar
FreeAtLast
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:08 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by FreeAtLast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:50 am

Retired for 3 years, 11 months. Feel very comfortable. Mentally prepared for next recession. My asset allocation (50/50) fits my risk tolerance.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 10368
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by HomerJ » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:04 am

Ged wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:34 am
It should be no surprise that recent retirees are exceeding expectations because of very good market performance. No guarantee that the next cohort of retirees will have the same experience so I'm not sure that recent experience will be a useful guide for future retirees.
This. Sorry guys... All your great stories of retiring in the past 7 years do nothing for me. :)

Yooper
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:25 am
Location: Nothern Michigan

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Yooper » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:09 am

Hard to say.

On one hand, with each passing year I subconsciously get more comfortable since it's one less year I have to worry about finances and being comfortable up to the bitter end. A bit macabre, but I won't live forever.

On the other hand, I haven't been through a downturn so I don't know how uncomfortable it would be to see my portfolio LOSE money with each passing day/week/month - all the while still having to spend money to live. While working it wasn't a problem since my regularly scheduled saving allotments continued to plug away, all the way down, at the bottom, and then on the way back up. And I continued to earn money.

Greatly agree with others concerning pensions, that certainly is a game changer and one I'm constantly thankful for. I've got nothing but admiration for those that don't have a pension since their planning has to be much more complex mine, and has more unknowns than mine. I don't perform well without a safety net in most of my endeavors, so I tip my hat to those who can.

User avatar
cinghiale
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:37 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by cinghiale » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:34 am

No denying that recent retirees have done well with good market returns in this decade. But I would hope that folks posting and reading here already have an asset allocation in place that will take much of the sting out of the next big downturn.

I’m two years into retirement and hold the “Wellesley Income Portfolio:” a 35-60-5 stock-bond-cash allocation with nothing sexier than intermediate term bonds In the fixed income part. And a nice cushion in VFSUX, Vanguard’s Short-Term Investment-Grade Fund, to weather a bad surprise.

Retirees and near-retirees should have already passed their stock allocation decisions through a number of screens:
1). Mr. Bogle’s “age in bonds” rule of thumb or something close to it.
2). Larry Swedroe’s self-reflection on one’s willingness, ability, and need to take risk (in stocks).
3). The “maximum tolerable loss X 2 equals maximum allocation to stocks” suggestion. (If you can’t abide more than a 20% drop in your portfolio, don’t allocate more than 40% of it to stocks. And,
4). The sleep at night test.

I want to, as one poster described it, “open the spigot” more during these first years of retirement. I can speak with near certainty that I’m not going to have the flexibility, energy, or endurance in my 70s that I have in my early 60s. I want to explore and discover now, and reap some of the benefits of decades of working and saving. A big component of that is not having to worry about my portfolio.
-- Cinghiale | | "We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anais Nin | | | "Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious." George Orwell

User avatar
SpringMan
Posts: 5304
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by SpringMan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:23 pm

I don't feel comfortable if long term care is in our future. Do not have LTC insurance because of negatives I have heard. There is risk associated with self insuring. I think this is a concern for those even with insurance. Mad Money's host Jim Cramer claimed it cost him more in lawyer's fees than the settlement to get his father's policy to pay up.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii😀 Northern AZ.😳

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:26 pm

SpringMan wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:23 pm
I don't feel comfortable if long term care is in our future. Do not have LTC insurance because of negatives I have heard. There is risk associated with self insuring. I think this is a concern for those even with insurance. Mad Money's host Jim Cramer claimed it cost him more in lawyer's fees than the settlement to get his father's policy to pay up.
+1
MIL with dementia now has 24/7 home care to the tune of 8-9k/mo. This is on top of living expenses and other expenses.
Those kinds of numbers would decimate the returns on many a portfolio over time. :shock:

User avatar
digarei
Posts: 661
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:41 am
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by digarei » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:46 pm

I retired 2 years ago at 59.

I was comfortable from Day 1... mostly attributable to having learned to reduce my expenses for a dozen years prior to retirement in order to pay off consumer debt. I learned that I can live on much less. And lots of planning.

Of three actual and potential income streams, i calculated that I can live modestly on just one.

What would change this obscenely high level of optimism, upending my plans? An obscenely high level of inflation for more than a year or two—my pension is COLA-capped at 2%. A long market decline or crash wouldn’t bother me as much unless it coincided with an extended period of high inflation (10%+).
Connect with Bogleheads in Northern California! Click the link under my user info/avatar.

DrGoogle2017
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:13 pm

I’ve retired almost 2 years and I think I’m beginning to get the hang of it. For normal living expense, I don’t have to worry. But for LTC, it’s still a bit unknown.

GoldenFinch
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by GoldenFinch » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:24 pm

I can’t help but think that the market going straight up for many months has contributed to feelings of financial well being. At least for those who are invested and not “sitting on the sidelines” waiting for the next big drop. :happy

xxd091
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by xxd091 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:42 pm

Hi All
Been retired 14 years at 57-through a few market corrections!
Almost at a 3 Fund Portfolio.Asset Allocation- 30% stocks,66% Bonds and 4% Cash
Portfolio continues to rise gently.Done most if not all of the serious travel while wife and I still fit!
Looking good to the finish but the price of long term care for one or both of us if required is a worry
I don’t know how one budgets for the possible sums involved-hopefully will never happen!
xxd09

Fallible
Posts: 6123
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Fallible » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:21 pm

cinghiale wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:34 am
No denying that recent retirees have done well with good market returns in this decade. But I would hope that folks posting and reading here already have an asset allocation in place that will take much of the sting out of the next big downturn.

I’m two years into retirement and hold the “Wellesley Income Portfolio:” a 35-60-5 stock-bond-cash allocation with nothing sexier than intermediate term bonds In the fixed income part. And a nice cushion in VFSUX, Vanguard’s Short-Term Investment-Grade Fund, to weather a bad surprise.

Retirees and near-retirees should have already passed their stock allocation decisions through a number of screens:
1). Mr. Bogle’s “age in bonds” rule of thumb or something close to it.
2). Larry Swedroe’s self-reflection on one’s willingness, ability, and need to take risk (in stocks).
3). The “maximum tolerable loss X 2 equals maximum allocation to stocks” suggestion. (If you can’t abide more than a 20% drop in your portfolio, don’t allocate more than 40% of it to stocks. And,
4). The sleep at night test.

I want to, as one poster described it, “open the spigot” more during these first years of retirement. I can speak with near certainty that I’m not going to have the flexibility, energy, or endurance in my 70s that I have in my early 60s. I want to explore and discover now, and reap some of the benefits of decades of working and saving. A big component of that is not having to worry about my portfolio.
I am many years retired, but agree that the 60s, assuming good health, can be the best and most physically active years of retirement (but even the 70s if that good health continues). Also agree with the four points and, of course, the financial freedom that enables it all.
Bogleheads® wiki | Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle

User avatar
FrugalInvestor
Posts: 4481
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:20 am

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:36 pm

I retired in 2003 at the age of 50 and was comfortable from the beginning even though I knew we needed to be careful with our spending. Then 2008 rolled around and that was scary! I was able to bring myself to buy more stocks during that time but never got back to my target allocation (60/40) so have left it at 50/50 since. Since that time our portfolio along with my comfort level have recovered and grown with the market. We are now much better off than were in 2003 and have loosened the purse strings a bit as a result. There's a lot to be said for living beneath your means in early retirement as well as during your accumulation years.

Edit for typo.
Last edited by FrugalInvestor on Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

btenny
Posts: 4153
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by btenny » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:49 pm

It very much depends on circumstances. I retired in December 1998 at 52 for various reasons. I had some money in the market and some real estate. I was nervous for 13 years about having enough money to stay retired. I experienced just about every bad event and sequencing thing talked about here. I have suffered through two recession, two market crashes, a bad health scare and several other bad things. But when my wife and I went on Medicare in 2011/12 and the market was recovering nicely we were finally sure we had enough. Below is the long story.

I retired when my Mega Corp offered a company wide buyout for senior employees in late 1998. So I took the buyout and retired. Then I watched the market and the economy tank a year later in 2000. Then it keep going down until 2003. In 1999 I took a play job part time to keep busy and liked my new retirement life style. But I needed to downsize and invest a lot of my home equity to make my retirement plan work. So I sold my house in mid 2000. I thought we would be OK. But then I was diagnosed with cancer that summer. So I was pretty sure I was screwed and maybe a short timer. I researched treatment alternatives and got treated in the fall of 2000 and my attitude improved. I had a good Christmas in 2000. Then the house deal fell apart. I was in trouble again.

I decided not to go back to work and to stay retired and try to sell my home again in the bad economy of 2001. I found another buyer and sold again in the fall of 2001 with a close of December 2001. So that summer I bought another small home and started to move. Then the second deal fell apart after 9-11-2001. Now I was sure I was screwed. The economy was going down and I was not working and I now owned TWO homes. Oh yea I was also not that sure my cancer was gone as I was only 12 months out of treatment. So I was pretty mad at the world and convinced I should go back to work somehow. I was still youngish and my skills were not totally junk. Yet.

So I thought about looking for a job. But then a third buyer called me and wanted to buy my home in November, 2001. I was saved. I did not need to go back to work. His price was OK and he was paying cash and could close in December or early January 2002. So I sold it a third time. I was happy but nervous. When it closed in January and I got that big check we celebrated. FINALLY I could stay retired. I thought.

So in early 2002 I needed to invest that money somewhere to make $$ to stay retired. But the market was still tanking and I was dumb. I looked into buying a apartment building or a nice small hotel to make cash flow but that met managing the darn thing. That was not my idea of a quiet retirement. So I looked around and decided to go with the market and a investment adviser. Well we all know that the market kept going down until the spring of 2003. And we all know that advisers look out for themselves first and clients last. So for the next 15 months I learned that lesson. I got schooled. I lost money every month. The guy bought strange stuff and lots of load mutual funds. He talked to me about small caps and mid caps and large caps and value and growth and all kinds of bond funds and other things. I was trying to learn but was sort of drinking from a fire hose. I was very worried but not panicked since I kept some of my money as cash over at Fidelity. Then in May of 2003 I had a meeting with my adviser. I wanted to buy some more Exxon at 35 (I already owned some) and my adviser balked. He wanted to go on vacation the next week (while the market tanked) and for me to put all my money with him in mutual funds and to move my Fidelity cash to him. I was POed. So I fired him.

I then became a Boglehead by accident. I moved my advisor money to Scottrade and left the rest at Fidelity. I decided my new job was the stock market and DIY investing. So I spent my days at the library and on the internet. I studied mutual funds. I read investment books. I talked to other investors. I found out about asset allocation. I found out about asset classes. I found out about bond types. By the fall of 2003 I was 50/50 stocks and bonds. I was still in some high costs funds but had also bought a lot of Vanguard funds. I discovered I could do this investing thing myself. I was happy again. The market was going up.

I slowly learned more and more over the next 4 years, 2003-2007 and thought this retirement thing was not that hard. I came to this Boglehead site and learned more. Now I was almost all into Vanguard funds and other low cost stuff. I had enough $$ and thought I was doing OK. Then the market crashed again in 2007. It went down and down. I was very nervous. I still had high medical costs as we were not 65 yet. Plus I did not want to cut back on spending. I kept my asset allocation at 50/50. I was wondering if I should. I stayed the course and stayed invested and the market started coming back in 2009. Then in 2011-12 we went on Medicare and DW started SS so our expenses went down and our income went up. Since then I have gone down to 40/60 as I got older and started SS as well. Now all is well.

Until the next disaster!!! So stay flexible and stay invested and it will all work out.

Good Luck.

User avatar
GerryL
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by GerryL » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:50 pm

I was very comfortable with my financial position even before I handed in my employee badge over 3 years ago. In fact, I even decided to up my annual spending target by 25% to make sure my original wasn't unrealistically conservative. Every few months I look at my expenses year-to-date in Quicken, divide the total by the number of months passed, then multiply the result by 12 to see if my expenses are up, down or on track for the current year.

By this time next year I will be getting my maxed-out SS benefit. That, along with a couple of tiny pensions (= < $700) will cover more than 85% of my more liberal spending target. So for me, expenses are much more important than investment gains.

Just to be careful, I have also done some what-if scenarios to see what would happen to my outlook if my SS check would be cut by 30%, 50% or even made to disappear. While I would have to cut back on international travel and charitable giving, especially in that last scenario, it is still doable.

Greenie
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Greenie » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:53 pm

I took me about 1 1/2 to relax into the direct deposit from Vanguard was my "paycheck". Which was weird because I was a business owner and I was paying myself anyway. I saved like crazy for the 10 years leading up to retirement and lived well below my means. It was hard to believe when I started seeing my number that it was a reality. I was shredding some old business records recently and thought, wow I was making good money. Then I remembered all the headaches and lack of free time. All the planning and saving works for most of us Bogleheads. Stay the course!

User avatar
celia
Posts: 7081
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:32 am
Location: SoCal

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by celia » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:14 pm

I didn't retire until after I was comfortable that our money would last a lifetime. We have two pensions with survivor benefits on each and can get by if we need to without SS. Currently doing Roth conversions so we can avoid the RMD "problem".

Dandy
Posts: 4755
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:42 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Dandy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:50 pm

A nice long bull market soon after retirement has certainly increased confidence that finances will last. But that can be misleading. The real factors for me are:
1. I will take SS at age 70 next year which will raise my income floor to about 85% or so of my current life style,
2, I am 70 vs 60 when I retired.
3. I adjusted my equity allocation from 55% to 43% since I retired
4. I am using Dr. Bernstein's 20+ years of residual expenses in safe products
5. Have no debt and house is paid for.
6. Last week my investments, despite funding the wait to collect SS, had never been higher.

flyingaway
Posts: 1301
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by flyingaway » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:14 pm

btenny wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:49 pm
It very much depends on circumstances. I retired in December 1998 at 52 for various reasons. I had some money in the market and some real estate. I was nervous for 13 years about having enough money to stay retired. I experienced just about every bad event and sequencing thing talked about here. I have suffered through two recession, two market crashes, a bad health scare and several other bad things. But when my wife and I went on Medicare in 2011/12 and the market was recovering nicely we were finally sure we had enough. Below is the long story.

I retired when my Mega Corp offered a company wide buyout for senior employees in late 1998. So I took the buyout and retired. Then I watched the market and the economy tank a year later in 2000. Then it keep going down until 2003. In 1999 I took a play job part time to keep busy and liked my new retirement life style. But I needed to downsize and invest a lot of my home equity to make my retirement plan work. So I sold my house in mid 2000. I thought we would be OK. But then I was diagnosed with cancer that summer. So I was pretty sure I was screwed and maybe a short timer. I researched treatment alternatives and got treated in the fall of 2000 and my attitude improved. I had a good Christmas in 2000. Then the house deal fell apart. I was in trouble again.

I decided not to go back to work and to stay retired and try to sell my home again in the bad economy of 2001. I found another buyer and sold again in the fall of 2001 with a close of December 2001. So that summer I bought another small home and started to move. Then the second deal fell apart after 9-11-2001. Now I was sure I was screwed. The economy was going down and I was not working and I now owned TWO homes. Oh yea I was also not that sure my cancer was gone as I was only 12 months out of treatment. So I was pretty mad at the world and convinced I should go back to work somehow. I was still youngish and my skills were not totally junk. Yet.

So I thought about looking for a job. But then a third buyer called me and wanted to buy my home in November, 2001. I was saved. I did not need to go back to work. His price was OK and he was paying cash and could close in December or early January 2002. So I sold it a third time. I was happy but nervous. When it closed in January and I got that big check we celebrated. FINALLY I could stay retired. I thought.

So in early 2002 I needed to invest that money somewhere to make $$ to stay retired. But the market was still tanking and I was dumb. I looked into buying a apartment building or a nice small hotel to make cash flow but that met managing the darn thing. That was not my idea of a quiet retirement. So I looked around and decided to go with the market and a investment adviser. Well we all know that the market kept going down until the spring of 2003. And we all know that advisers look out for themselves first and clients last. So for the next 15 months I learned that lesson. I got schooled. I lost money every month. The guy bought strange stuff and lots of load mutual funds. He talked to me about small caps and mid caps and large caps and value and growth and all kinds of bond funds and other things. I was trying to learn but was sort of drinking from a fire hose. I was very worried but not panicked since I kept some of my money as cash over at Fidelity. Then in May of 2003 I had a meeting with my adviser. I wanted to buy some more Exxon at 35 (I already owned some) and my adviser balked. He wanted to go on vacation the next week (while the market tanked) and for me to put all my money with him in mutual funds and to move my Fidelity cash to him. I was POed. So I fired him.

I then became a Boglehead by accident. I moved my advisor money to Scottrade and left the rest at Fidelity. I decided my new job was the stock market and DIY investing. So I spent my days at the library and on the internet. I studied mutual funds. I read investment books. I talked to other investors. I found out about asset allocation. I found out about asset classes. I found out about bond types. By the fall of 2003 I was 50/50 stocks and bonds. I was still in some high costs funds but had also bought a lot of Vanguard funds. I discovered I could do this investing thing myself. I was happy again. The market was going up.

I slowly learned more and more over the next 4 years, 2003-2007 and thought this retirement thing was not that hard. I came to this Boglehead site and learned more. Now I was almost all into Vanguard funds and other low cost stuff. I had enough $$ and thought I was doing OK. Then the market crashed again in 2007. It went down and down. I was very nervous. I still had high medical costs as we were not 65 yet. Plus I did not want to cut back on spending. I kept my asset allocation at 50/50. I was wondering if I should. I stayed the course and stayed invested and the market started coming back in 2009. Then in 2011-12 we went on Medicare and DW started SS so our expenses went down and our income went up. Since then I have gone down to 40/60 as I got older and started SS as well. Now all is well.

Until the next disaster!!! So stay flexible and stay invested and it will all work out.

Good Luck.
With a story like this, I am sure that we have worried too much.

jebmke
Posts: 6836
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by jebmke » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:23 pm

celia wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:14 pm
I didn't retire until after I was comfortable that our money would last a lifetime.
Same here. Actually, I didn't pay much attention to the numbers until other factors entered into the decision. It wasn't a financial decision for me. But I did have to verify that the pile was enough before planning it all out.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

User avatar
rustymutt
Posts: 3645
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:03 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by rustymutt » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:25 pm

2009 retiree here. So 8 years out, divorced since. No debt. Own home. All my savings in retirement tax deferred retirement accounts. IRA, and Roth. New truck. I love being retired. I feel like I got my life back, and feel like a kid again, but without financial worry.
Knowledge is knowing that the Tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing better than to put the tomato in a fruit salad.

The Wizard
Posts: 10999
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by The Wizard » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:16 pm

Open the spigot, eh?
So I should fly business class to Madrid in March just because I can?
Hmmm, I'm not sure about that.
There's a certain attention to expenses, not frugalness exactly, but attention that remains in retirement.
I have a dive trip to Bonaire in late April to focus on and then a HS reunion trip in May.

So I don't think frivolous spending suits me, even if I could afford it...
Attempted new signature...

User avatar
Toons
Posts: 12013
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by Toons » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:17 pm

Felt pretty comfortable since day 1
:happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

chuckb84
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:41 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by chuckb84 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:27 pm

indexonlyplease wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:04 am
I retired 18 months ago and it has been simple because of my pension. Pension makes it alot easier to feel secure. At least with the Florida Pension. I plan not to touch my investments for another 7 years. I will just have to decide how much more will I need each month.

Question, what is the best withdraw calculator to see how long the investments will last??

Also, I only plan on taking the investment gains for the year. Bad year I will not take money. My pension has a 3% cola.
Almost 3 years into retirement now, which started when I was 60 and DW 59. I knew we would draw down savings a bit until we both started SS, but I also have a COLAed pension, and that's great. At this point, SS and pension will, if the excrement really hits the fan, cover all "essentials", like housing, food, bills, and we have good medical insurance. So, once I realized that the investment performance really only determines how many luxury items we indulge in, I began to relax.

I truly enjoy having to struggle to know the date, and even the day of the week; it is a completely different rhythm of life.

Investment calculators: i-orp, flexible retirement planner, and the bogleheads retiree portfolio model, plus, for it's extreme simplicity, this monte carlo calculator (http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/InvestmentReturns/). When I kept getting similar answers from all of these, I began to relax.

User avatar
KSOC
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:53 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by KSOC » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:56 pm

btenny wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:49 pm
It very much depends on circumstances. I retired in December 1998 at 52 for various reasons. I had some money in the market and some real estate. I was nervous for 13 years about having enough money to stay retired. I experienced just about every bad event and sequencing thing talked about here. I have suffered through two recession, two market crashes, a bad health scare and several other bad things. But when my wife and I went on Medicare in 2011/12 and the market was recovering nicely we were finally sure we had enough. Below is the long story.

I retired when my Mega Corp offered a company wide buyout for senior employees in late 1998. So I took the buyout and retired. Then I watched the market and the economy tank a year later in 2000. Then it keep going down until 2003. In 1999 I took a play job part time to keep busy and liked my new retirement life style. But I needed to downsize and invest a lot of my home equity to make my retirement plan work. So I sold my house in mid 2000. I thought we would be OK. But then I was diagnosed with cancer that summer. So I was pretty sure I was screwed and maybe a short timer. I researched treatment alternatives and got treated in the fall of 2000 and my attitude improved. I had a good Christmas in 2000. Then the house deal fell apart. I was in trouble again.

I decided not to go back to work and to stay retired and try to sell my home again in the bad economy of 2001. I found another buyer and sold again in the fall of 2001 with a close of December 2001. So that summer I bought another small home and started to move. Then the second deal fell apart after 9-11-2001. Now I was sure I was screwed. The economy was going down and I was not working and I now owned TWO homes. Oh yea I was also not that sure my cancer was gone as I was only 12 months out of treatment. So I was pretty mad at the world and convinced I should go back to work somehow. I was still youngish and my skills were not totally junk. Yet.

So I thought about looking for a job. But then a third buyer called me and wanted to buy my home in November, 2001. I was saved. I did not need to go back to work. His price was OK and he was paying cash and could close in December or early January 2002. So I sold it a third time. I was happy but nervous. When it closed in January and I got that big check we celebrated. FINALLY I could stay retired. I thought.

So in early 2002 I needed to invest that money somewhere to make $$ to stay retired. But the market was still tanking and I was dumb. I looked into buying a apartment building or a nice small hotel to make cash flow but that met managing the darn thing. That was not my idea of a quiet retirement. So I looked around and decided to go with the market and a investment adviser. Well we all know that the market kept going down until the spring of 2003. And we all know that advisers look out for themselves first and clients last. So for the next 15 months I learned that lesson. I got schooled. I lost money every month. The guy bought strange stuff and lots of load mutual funds. He talked to me about small caps and mid caps and large caps and value and growth and all kinds of bond funds and other things. I was trying to learn but was sort of drinking from a fire hose. I was very worried but not panicked since I kept some of my money as cash over at Fidelity. Then in May of 2003 I had a meeting with my adviser. I wanted to buy some more Exxon at 35 (I already owned some) and my adviser balked. He wanted to go on vacation the next week (while the market tanked) and for me to put all my money with him in mutual funds and to move my Fidelity cash to him. I was POed. So I fired him.

I then became a Boglehead by accident. I moved my advisor money to Scottrade and left the rest at Fidelity. I decided my new job was the stock market and DIY investing. So I spent my days at the library and on the internet. I studied mutual funds. I read investment books. I talked to other investors. I found out about asset allocation. I found out about asset classes. I found out about bond types. By the fall of 2003 I was 50/50 stocks and bonds. I was still in some high costs funds but had also bought a lot of Vanguard funds. I discovered I could do this investing thing myself. I was happy again. The market was going up.

I slowly learned more and more over the next 4 years, 2003-2007 and thought this retirement thing was not that hard. I came to this Boglehead site and learned more. Now I was almost all into Vanguard funds and other low cost stuff. I had enough $$ and thought I was doing OK. Then the market crashed again in 2007. It went down and down. I was very nervous. I still had high medical costs as we were not 65 yet. Plus I did not want to cut back on spending. I kept my asset allocation at 50/50. I was wondering if I should. I stayed the course and stayed invested and the market started coming back in 2009. Then in 2011-12 we went on Medicare and DW started SS so our expenses went down and our income went up. Since then I have gone down to 40/60 as I got older and started SS as well. Now all is well.

Until the next disaster!!! So stay flexible and stay invested and it will all work out.

Good Luck.
What a ride! Thanks for sharing. Good health!
Too soon old, too late smart.

flyingaway
Posts: 1301
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by flyingaway » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:01 pm

rustymutt wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:25 pm
2009 retiree here. So 8 years out, divorced since. No debt. Own home. All my savings in retirement tax deferred retirement accounts. IRA, and Roth. New truck. I love being retired. I feel like I got my life back, and feel like a kid again, but without financial worry.
Did the divorce affect your financial situation?

angelescrest
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: The Third Coast

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by angelescrest » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:53 pm

I’m hearing about lots of stress. More or less stress than the worst stress you had during your career jobs?

RadAudit
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 10:20 am
Location: Second star on the right and straight on 'til morning

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by RadAudit » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:14 pm

tennisplyr wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:27 am
Of those BHs who've been retired a while, I was wondering when you really started feeling comfortable about your finances in retirement. That is, where you thought it's highly unlikely that you'd run into massive distress about your investments. I've been retired almost 7 years and find myself feeling more and more confident about my financial future.
Congrats! Well done!

I've been retired for seven years and haven't reached any great degree of confidence about my financial situation. But, I'm a worrier. Just too many unknown unknowns for me.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course.

pacamoky
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:20 am

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by pacamoky » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:44 pm

Out of curiosity for those of you who have "opened the spigot", what do you spend money on now that you didn't before?

User avatar
FrugalInvestor
Posts: 4481
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:20 am

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:50 pm

pacamoky wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:44 pm
Out of curiosity for those of you who have "opened the spigot", what do you spend money on now that you didn't before?
An active retirement community with relatively high HOAs and the corresponding facilities and activities. It enhances our lives considerably. The resulting social interaction and close friendships come free but are priceless. As we age further we will likely splurge a bit more but not sure what on yet.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 10368
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by HomerJ » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:02 am

btenny wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:49 pm
It very much depends on circumstances. I retired in December 1998 at 52 for various reasons. I had some money in the market and some real estate. I was nervous for 13 years about having enough money to stay retired. I experienced just about every bad event and sequencing thing talked about here. I have suffered through two recession, two market crashes, a bad health scare and several other bad things. But when my wife and I went on Medicare in 2011/12 and the market was recovering nicely we were finally sure we had enough. Below is the long story.

I retired when my Mega Corp offered a company wide buyout for senior employees in late 1998. So I took the buyout and retired. Then I watched the market and the economy tank a year later in 2000. Then it keep going down until 2003. In 1999 I took a play job part time to keep busy and liked my new retirement life style. But I needed to downsize and invest a lot of my home equity to make my retirement plan work. So I sold my house in mid 2000. I thought we would be OK. But then I was diagnosed with cancer that summer. So I was pretty sure I was screwed and maybe a short timer. I researched treatment alternatives and got treated in the fall of 2000 and my attitude improved. I had a good Christmas in 2000. Then the house deal fell apart. I was in trouble again.

I decided not to go back to work and to stay retired and try to sell my home again in the bad economy of 2001. I found another buyer and sold again in the fall of 2001 with a close of December 2001. So that summer I bought another small home and started to move. Then the second deal fell apart after 9-11-2001. Now I was sure I was screwed. The economy was going down and I was not working and I now owned TWO homes. Oh yea I was also not that sure my cancer was gone as I was only 12 months out of treatment. So I was pretty mad at the world and convinced I should go back to work somehow. I was still youngish and my skills were not totally junk. Yet.

So I thought about looking for a job. But then a third buyer called me and wanted to buy my home in November, 2001. I was saved. I did not need to go back to work. His price was OK and he was paying cash and could close in December or early January 2002. So I sold it a third time. I was happy but nervous. When it closed in January and I got that big check we celebrated. FINALLY I could stay retired. I thought.

So in early 2002 I needed to invest that money somewhere to make $$ to stay retired. But the market was still tanking and I was dumb. I looked into buying a apartment building or a nice small hotel to make cash flow but that met managing the darn thing. That was not my idea of a quiet retirement. So I looked around and decided to go with the market and a investment adviser. Well we all know that the market kept going down until the spring of 2003. And we all know that advisers look out for themselves first and clients last. So for the next 15 months I learned that lesson. I got schooled. I lost money every month. The guy bought strange stuff and lots of load mutual funds. He talked to me about small caps and mid caps and large caps and value and growth and all kinds of bond funds and other things. I was trying to learn but was sort of drinking from a fire hose. I was very worried but not panicked since I kept some of my money as cash over at Fidelity. Then in May of 2003 I had a meeting with my adviser. I wanted to buy some more Exxon at 35 (I already owned some) and my adviser balked. He wanted to go on vacation the next week (while the market tanked) and for me to put all my money with him in mutual funds and to move my Fidelity cash to him. I was POed. So I fired him.

I then became a Boglehead by accident. I moved my advisor money to Scottrade and left the rest at Fidelity. I decided my new job was the stock market and DIY investing. So I spent my days at the library and on the internet. I studied mutual funds. I read investment books. I talked to other investors. I found out about asset allocation. I found out about asset classes. I found out about bond types. By the fall of 2003 I was 50/50 stocks and bonds. I was still in some high costs funds but had also bought a lot of Vanguard funds. I discovered I could do this investing thing myself. I was happy again. The market was going up.

I slowly learned more and more over the next 4 years, 2003-2007 and thought this retirement thing was not that hard. I came to this Boglehead site and learned more. Now I was almost all into Vanguard funds and other low cost stuff. I had enough $$ and thought I was doing OK. Then the market crashed again in 2007. It went down and down. I was very nervous. I still had high medical costs as we were not 65 yet. Plus I did not want to cut back on spending. I kept my asset allocation at 50/50. I was wondering if I should. I stayed the course and stayed invested and the market started coming back in 2009. Then in 2011-12 we went on Medicare and DW started SS so our expenses went down and our income went up. Since then I have gone down to 40/60 as I got older and started SS as well. Now all is well.

Until the next disaster!!! So stay flexible and stay invested and it will all work out.

Good Luck.
Thanks for writing all this. It was a very good read.

User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 10368
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by HomerJ » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:03 am

rustymutt wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:25 pm
2009 retiree here. So 8 years out, divorced since. No debt. Own home. All my savings in retirement tax deferred retirement accounts. IRA, and Roth. New truck. I love being retired. I feel like I got my life back, and feel like a kid again, but without financial worry.
You got divorced AFTER retiring? What did that do to your financial plans?

spammagnet
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by spammagnet » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:28 am

HomerJ wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:04 am
Ged wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:34 am
It should be no surprise that recent retirees are exceeding expectations because of very good market performance. No guarantee that the next cohort of retirees will have the same experience so I'm not sure that recent experience will be a useful guide for future retirees.
This. Sorry guys... All your great stories of retiring in the past 7 years do nothing for me. :)
+1. I'm 1-2 years out. I watch the market with some regret about holding 60% in bonds but really can't afford the losses that might happen early in my retirement. I plan to spend down bonds until I'm 70 and draw SS. My AA will become more aggressive as my dependence on savings lessens. If bad things don't happen in the early years my confidence will increase. That said, Sheepdog's experience is informative.

User avatar
6miths
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Retirees: I got this!!

Post by 6miths » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:41 am

Retired 3.5 years and was very happy with finances before I retired. Otherwise I would have stayed with it.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain

Post Reply